Game chat: Manuel stays course with original order

As usual, Phillies skipper Charlie Manuel exercises patience with his tepid offense, even with a quality left-hander on the mound in Clayton Richard, in the second of four from Petco Park. First pitch is 10:05. The Phillies go with Shane Victorino, Placido Polanco, Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Howard, Ben Francisco, Raul Ibanez, Carlos Ruiz and Wilson Valdez ahead of Cole Hamels, resisting the urge to drop Rollins lower and sit Ibanez for John Mayberry Jr.

Comments

[jr]

It's hard for old people to make changes.

[GTown_Dave]

RaOLLLLLLLLLD.

[Iceman]

Anibal Sanchez, an awful pitcher who the Phillies offense turned in a pathetic performance against on Sunday, has a no hitter through 8 against Colorado.

[CJ]

MLB.tv is offering a free look-in on Sanchez's attempt at a no-hitter.

[GTown_Dave]

Iceman: Well that just shows how awful Colorado is, doesn't it?

[Meyer]

Hamels hits the ball harder than Ibandaids.

[David Herndon]

Don't know if anyone caught this last night, but as the Mets were running onto the field last night to start the game, the commercial banner that runs around the field was advertising for a company called bringontheclowns.com. Hard to believe Harry.

[Jack]

Hasn't Sanchez already thrown a no-hitter?

Would be pretty crazy to have him throw two in a short career. He's a good pitcher, but he's not exactly Josh Johnson or King Felix.

[GTown_Dave]

Jack: He's no Wade LeBlanc, that's for sure.

[Iceman]

GTown- they are dreadful. The most pathetic offensive display I've seen since the Phillies Tuesday against Randy Wolf.

[NEPP]

The ever popular non-shutout no-hitter...gotta love that.

[Iceman]

David Herndon- get stepping to Lehigh Valley where you belong.

[rauls grandpa]

Editor's note: Plus substitute "piss warm" for tepid.

[NEPP]

So much for that.

[GTown_Dave]

MLB Network jinx.

[CJ]

And so much for the no-hitter. I'm a jinx.

[bay_area_phan]

Actually, the Marlins are kind of starting to p*ss me off. I'd like to see them lose a few.

[CJ]

Marlins April record:

2010: 11-12, finished 17 GB
2009: 14-8, finished 6 GB
2008: 15-11, finished 7.5 GB

They've gotten off to good starts now in 3 of the last 4 years. They haven't made the playoffs since 2003 and they've never won the NL East. I can't imagine why anyone would get too worked up over them.

[clout]

BAP: Not to worry. Jack has said the NL East is no tougher than last year and that the Marlins and Nats won't win more games than they did last season.

[Jack]

Clout: Marlins are an 80-85 win team. Still believe that.

The Nats look pesky, but that starting pitching will NOT hold up. It's been a fluke. They still could win a few games more this year than last year. Would anyone really notice, tough?

[NEPP]

When the Nats have Zimmerman and a healthy Strasburg next year, they'll be tough in a short series.

[CJ]

Nats solid pitching through 18 games: Fluke
Braves bad offense through 18 games: Fluke

Raul Ibanez bad offense through 18 games: Proof he's Washed Up

At least we're consistent!

[NEPP]

Good summary of the situation, CJ.

[Iceman]

Didn't BAP make the argument in 2009 that, when the Marlins got out to some crazy hot start in April and the Phils were like 6 or 7 games back right out of the chute, the probability was getting low that they could ever make up the deficit?

I have a pretty poor memory but I remember that because of how absolutely ridiculous it was.

[NEPP]

I got literally 3.5 hrs sleep last night thanks to Alan Fletcher. Freaking exhausted right now and the game hasn't even started.

And the Flyers are gonna give me a heart attack.

[clout]

Jack: The Nats, Marlins and Braves will all win more games than they did last season.

The NL East is tougher.

You're wrong.

Again.

[CJ]

Can we all agree the Mets will win fewer games than last year?

Johan likely won't be back... at least I can't imagine why they'd make him pitch in this wasted season.

Reyes will be gone by the All-Star break. It will be very interesting to see where he winds up and what the Mets will get for him.

Wright just hasn't been the same since he got hit in the head.

And the rest of the team? Wow, is it ugly!

[bay_area_phan]

Josh Johnson's a stud and it's not hard to imagine that Marlins lineup being pretty good. The Marlins' success will probably come down to how the rest of their starting rotation does. There is plenty of upside in that rotation but, to date, guys like Sanchez, Nolasco & Volstad haven't really lived up to their promise.

[Oliver]

There's got to be something we can do about this. I mean, it's kind of embarrassing to have Raul out there when he puts op offensive numbers that are 62% of league average (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0)

Then again when I went to game 1 against the Mets earlier my friends and I yelled 'Hi' to him and he waved to us. It made us giddy as schoolgirls...

[Iceman]

CJ- I agree with all of your points re: the Mets except for the Wright thing. He is a great player and really suffers being the face of a laughingstock franchise.

[bay_area_phan]

Iceman: I don't recall that I said the probability was low. I did say that, if you spot your rival a 5-game lead, the odds of winning the division just got considerably lower than they were at the start of the season. In other words, I made the same argument that I've seen written by numerous columnists with regard to the RedSox this year.

[GTown_Dave]

Not a good hitter.

[STHS]

Would anyone like Reyes as ss here in 2012?

[GTown_Dave]

I like Jimmy's defense. I'd prefer his bat be shadowed by the form of an on-deck pitcher.

[NEPP]

Reyes can be a very good player but I hate him far too much to ever want to see him in a Phillies uniform.

It'd be up there with when the Flyers signed Marc Bureau for crap moves.

[STHS]

Reyes sure can play when he feels like, though.

[NEPP]

When he feels like being the key phrase. He's human garbage.

[Iceman]

BAP- then I strongly disagree with you and the numerous columnists you cite. Things even out over 162 games- just because a team gets off to a blazing start doesn't mean their record won't eventually reflect the product on the field. The Red Sox are just as good as they were when their record was 0-0, and the Marlins were the same mediocre team they were before their 11-1 or 12-1 start that year.

I feel the same way about the ridiculous BP odds, which had the Phils dead in the water last July.

[Matt]

Cole rocking the goatee. Has he had that all year?

[NEPP]

Very smart of Hamels to induce groundballs in such a great hitters park.

[CJ]

Iceman: David Wright had an OPS of .882 going into the game where he was hit in the head in 2009. He had an OPS of .656 the rest of the way that season. He struck out 35 times in his last 29 games after being hit.

Then, in 2010, he had a lower OPS than he had in the first four full seasons of his career.

And then there are the strike outs. From 2005-2008, he averaged about 115 Ks per season. In the first full season after getting hit, he struck out 161 times and he currently leads the league with 23 Ks.

[NEPP]

***Cole rocking the goatee. Has he had that all year?***

Most likely this is evil Cole Hamels from the ISS Enterprise

[NEPP]

Clearly Wright had something get knocked loose by that beaning.

[CJ]

I like this evil Cole Hamels who is a ground ball pitcher.

[CJ]

Iceman: And I like David Wright and think he gets a bad rap because he's the face of a team that's horribly mismanaged.

[STHS]

Shocking results from JRoll and from Raul.

[NEPP]

David Wright is basically the one player on the Mets I would want on our club...both talent and personality/attitude wise

[Jack]

"He's human garbage."

Honestly, NEPP, I usually like your comments. You're generally pretty good.

But why do you insist on always characterizing people as "human scum" and "human garbage"? No offense, but you've never met Jose Reyes (please correct me if you have).

It's one thing to call a convicted murderer "human scum." It's quite another to call someone that just because you don't like them as a baseball player.

I find it really off-putting that you make such seemingly serious moral judgments about people you don't even know, and about whom frankly you know nothing. Why do you do that?

[CJ]

See... Raul was set up for a great game thanks to the Beerleaguer Reverse Jinx... until every starting talking about the BRJ, thereby reversing it!

[Burt Lavallo, friend to all]

"If you spot your rival a 5-game lead, the odds of winning the division just got considerably lower than they were at the start of the season."

i don't understand how anyone could disagree with this statement. it's almost true by definition.

[NEPP]

First OT starting for Flyers

[GTown_Dave]

If David Wright were a Phillie I'd have no issue w/ the guy. He's the kind of player you love on your own team & hate on any other. Reyass, however, can suck it. I got no use for him.

[Steve]

Where was the Raul bat toss helmet toss?

[Ratface]

Can someone remind me of the that great IP blocker so I can screw over MLB and Comcas...er MLB?

Seriously

[NEPP]

***But why do you insist on always characterizing people as "human scum" and "human garbage"? No offense, but you've never met Jose Reyes (please correct me if you have).

It's one thing to call a convicted murderer "human scum." It's quite another to call someone that just because you don't like them as a baseball player.

I find it really off-putting that you make such seemingly serious moral judgments about people you don't even know, and about whom frankly you know nothing. Why do you do that?***

Fair enough...I do not care for him as a player due to his perceived showboating and lackadaisical attitude at times. I would not want Mr. Reyes on our club as he does not appear that he would be a good fit on a team that values character.

As a human being, I have no direct knowledge of any of his possible faults or issues. He may very well be a great guy outside of the baseball field.

[CJ]

I'm sure Jack has told us recently that the Braves have a significantly less chance of winning the division since they trail two different teams by 6 games in the loss column.

[NEPP]

Evil Hamels loves him the groundball outs.

[Iceman]

Burt- it's not a difficult concept. It's the same as reverting to career norms. If your team is good, your record over 162 games will reflect that. If it's mediocre, it will reflect that, as shown by the Marlins that season.

It's a different story if it's mid-August and you're 7 games back. That's 30-35 games. We're talking about April and 150 games.

[Ratface]

Guys...come on...the IP blocker...give it up

[bigbigbuck]

There's a very good argument for Reyes being better than Rollins moving forward.

[David $$$]

Thank God we have Raul in there.

[GTown_Dave]

NEPP: Please don't call Cole "Evil" on the basis of his ill-conceived facial hair alone. Have you ever met the man? He's actually heavily involved in charity work. Does that sound "evil" to you? Well, it's not, & I find it quite off-putting to suggest otherwise.

[johnnysanz3]

Dammit flyers

[CJ]

bigbigbuck: Um... I doubt anyone here would disagree with the concept that Reyes will be better than Rollins moving forward.

[Iceman]

CJ- I hadn't realized he had that significant of a drop-off with his production. Wow.

I guess I jump to defend the guy because I just feel bad for him. He's got to face the media after every game and try to polish a turd, and he's a really really good player locked into a contract with a failure of a franchise.

[bay_area_phan]

Iceman: Doesn't seem worth debating but that's not really how reverting to career norms works. Reverting to career norms means reverting to those norms from this day forward. It doesn't mean you're any more likely to overcompensate for past under-performance.

If you spot a decent team a 5-game lead to open the season, you're considerably worse off than you were on opening day -- even if your team still seems better than the other one on paper.

[GTown_Dave]

40 Pitches in 2 Innings. Not great.

[bay_area_phan]

G-Town: Be not concerned. We've got David Herndon waiting in the wings.

[CJ]

Cole's command off just a touch that inning. Not really getting squeezed... just missing his spot.

[JAY]

Cole with the stick!

[NEPP]

***40 Pitches in 2 Innings. Not great.***

Good thing we have such a great pitcher like KK in the BP ready to go several innings if need be.

[CarlosBeltransexual]

Just found our new three-hole hitter!

[GTown_Dave]

b_a_p: Isn't it Kendrick's turn to toss Hamels' backpack dog into the oven & crank the heat?

[Matt]

Oh, Cole. At least it gave me a chuckle.

[NEPP]

Evil Hamels is not a great SB threat.

[GTown_Dave]

Werth'd

[kuvasz]

In the tradition of Grant Jackson, another pitcher asleep on the bases.

[curt]

Channeling Jason Werth through those whiskers?

[JAY]

cole was picked off...lol

[David $$$]

Yeah, but 4 of those were to intentionally walk Gonzalez. Doesn't really count in the pitch count, in my book.

[curt]

Vic looking more and more like a leadoff hitter.

[bay_area_phan]

G-Town: Actually, I've lost track. I can never remember which crappy reliever is which.

[JAY]

ok need to make something happen here.....

[NEPP]

Golden opportunity for Rollins to turn it around here.

[curt]

Jimmy looking more and more like Jimmy.

[Matt]

Here's an idea: after walking two straight guys, the second on four pitches, let's swing at the first pitch and fly out.

[NEPP]

First pitch Jimmy?

Seriously?

[JAY]

lol jimmy

[Matt]

big man!

[David $$$]

I for one have really missed the J-Roll Special.

Of course, the true Special is a pop-up, not a flyout, but still, the spirit is the same.

[NEPP]

The sad thing is I know exactly what Jimmy was thinking. He was thinking "This guy just walked two batters so he's probably just gonna throw a fastball as a get me over pitch to not fall behind...I should cheat on that fastball and swing".

[JAY]

very nice ryan!!!!!

[Iceman]

Why couldn't we give Mayberry a spot start at 1B tonight?

[NEPP]

Howard just got an easy triple...which is impossible because the genius posters at Fangraphs told me repeatedly that Howard is a terrible fat slow non-athletic 1B today.

[Oliver]

Aww yeah. I'm liking Ryan as this singles hitter who has some occasional pop...

[CJ]

If only we had played Mayberry Jr. at 1st and given Howard a day off against this tough lefty...

[GTown_Dave]

NEPP: It doesn't hurt that the next closest park in size to PETCO is Yellowstone.

[NEPP]

I'd still like to have Mayberry in LF against LHPs instead of Raul...but subbing out Howard was silly.

[Dukes]

I don't recall anybody calling for Mayberry spelling Howard, I think it was Mayberry spelling Ibanez (for all time against lefties).

[CJ]

Before the Howard hit, bad base running cost us 1, maybe 2 runs. Hamels gets picked off or we could have had the bases loaded when J-Roll flew out to CF (sac fly, run scores). And on that fly ball, Vic absolutely should have made it to third and scored on the wild pitch.

Good thing Howard picked them up with his triple!