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Tuesday, February 15, 2011


CJ: I took Truth Injection's post as a personal challenge. "If anyone can wrap all this negativity into a single post," thought I, "I'm the one" (especially now that G-Town Dave doesn't post much anymore).

I'm chagrined, however, that you're putting out misinformation about the Beerleaguer Elite. It does exist and you know it. And, even if it doesn't, those who aren't in it are not entitled to know that.

Phils looking for Coutlangus, but got the Schlitter instead.

Consolidating and re-posting from previous thread:

Sorry Will, I guess Young was the obvious joke.

All kidding aside, though, I can't say I'm incredibly optimistic about Valdez being the primary back up for all of 3B, SS, 2B and CF.

Interesting that they'd try Mayberry as 1B backup, as Gload was serviceable at that position. The flip/flop of Gload/Mayberry as Howard's backup would indicate a greater role for Gload in RF more regularly.
We could argue (and at some point probably will) that Mayberry makes more sense as a CF backup because of his versatility to play multiple OF positions. Gload doesn't offer that flexibility.

To the topic at hand, however, Carpenter is only 25? Really? Seems like he's been around for 30 years.

Willard: You must be confusing him with Eude Brito.

If he has a bad outing and assaults a heckler at Citizen's Bank Park, the Schlit will hit the fan.

@Willard: No worries. As for Exxon, I suppose we could do worse for a supersub.

@Pete Happy: classic!

I actually find this move a little surprising. Seems to me that a not-quite-good-enough-for-the-majors starter is of more value than a not-quite-good-enough-for-the-majors reliever. But I guess the Phillis think that Schlitter has more upside as a reliever than Carpenter has as a starter.

This move suggests to me that they really are planning to keep Blanton. Carpenter wasn't inspiring but he was pretty clearly the next in line behind KK & Worley in the pecking order of starting pitchers. It wouldn't really make sense to trade away your 7th starter for a middling AAA reliever,

"he was pretty clearly the next in line behind KK & Worley in the pecking order of starting pitchers."

bap, are you sure of that? This may be an indication that the FO no longer agrees with that notion, and sees other MiL as more likely to make a contribution if they have to delve THAT far into SP depth.

Also, the 40 man roster IS exactly that - limited to 40. (MOTO)

The point is that the FO has a decision to make in these cases as to who they would rather give up if another team makes a claim. It's quite possible that Carpenter is just a victim of numbers.

It will be pretty interesting to see who or if some team claims him.

Mayberry is getting reps at 1B because he is right handed. Charlie is a slave to matchups and would presumably like to rest Howard against tough lefties, making Gload's value at that position less then Mayberry's.

Looks like they just acquired a right handed Zagurski.

They'll probably become roommates at Lehigh Valley.

awh: Who else in the organization could have been next in line behind Worley? J.C. Ramirez? He has pitched all of 77 innings at AA & he pretty much got lit up. I just don't see anyone there who would remotely be up to the task. Not that Carpenter was up to it either, but he was more qualified than anyone else.

Despite what you read on Beerleaguer, Carp wasn't much of a prospect. Neither is Schlitter. Obviously, the Phils felt their SP depth was better than their bullpen depth.

I hope we don't need 8 starters next year.

Isn't Carpenter level performance is available on the FA market for about $1 million-$2 million if it comes to that?

Of course, Schlitter level performance is probably even cheaper, so I'm not sure that's a great argument...maybe they think that Schlitter has more room to grow and Carpenter doesn't?

Of course, while Carpenter was clearly the most qualified call-up after Worley, he wasn't particularly qualified & he bombed in all 4 major league appearances over the last 2 years. It's always possible to find someone worse, but there does come a point on the continuum where the guy is so bad that it wouldn't much matter if the backup plan is worse: either way, you're virtually guaranteed to lose when he pitches. Carpenter represents that point on the continuum.

BAP: I think that's right and I also think, looking at their organizational depth, the Phils felt they could use a fringe prospect reliever more than they could use a fringe prospect SP.

1. DFAing Carpenter means they have a lot of confidence in Worley.

2. BAP is probably right that they see themselves keeping Blanton. RAJ acknowledged yesterday that they will need pitching depth. He said they used 9 starters last year.

BAP, you tend to think that you're virtually guaranteed to lose when anyone pitches. So I'm assuming you think Carpenter = Doc = Lee?

clout: That's probably all true.

And, quite honestly, if injuries ever depleted the roster to the point that the Phillies needed a 7th/8th starter, they would probably just find some veteran starter on the waiver wire, who would not be materially worse than Carpenter. Or they could bring tears of joy to Beerleaguers around the world by signing Pedro.

Spitz, not sure that's the case, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find too many BLer's who feel overly confident with Andrew Carpenter toeing the rubber. I think that's BAP's point.

This move clears the way for the Phils to bring Carpenter back in a year or two and make a lot of people feel they're bringing in fresh blood. Perhaps he'll do something semi-impressive in between times like pitch a complete game 2 hit shutout in the AA playoffs, which they would of course mention when his return is announced.

WP - I know, I was kidding.

So does this open the door for one P. Martinez to be our 8th starter this season?

Maybe they signed Schlitter because he DIDN'T light up a cigarette during the interview.

Kutz: But he opened a Schlitz.

Clearly the Phillies just want to have a bullpen featuring Coutlangus and Schlitter.
In all seriousness though, while the move is a bit surprising, I doubt it will matter at all to the season. We've got bigger problems if we need Drew Carpenter to start this season... plus it is possible that Carpenter clears waivers and is in AAA with Schlitter.

They could devise a sandwich using his name and have for sale both the Schmitter and the Schlitter at Citizens Bank Park.

Interesting opinion here:

Should we Phils fans be happy about this development?

"I just don't see anyone there who would remotely be up to the task. Not that Carpenter was up to it either, but he was more qualified than anyone else."

bap, in 2007 would you have said Kendrick was up to the task, PRIOR to the season?

Unless you're clairvoyant, I doubt it.

My point is simply that the FO probably has some young arms in mind if it came to having to go that far down on the depth chart.

What do you think the FO/MiL development guys do all the time? Sit around and discuss the Cliff Lee signing?

The lack of "Nate Bump for 8th starter" support is just despressing!

Does Valdez have a contract? I don't remember reading anything on it.

awh: Sure, someone can come out of nowhere & shoot up the minor league depth chart as KK did in 2007. But that hasn't happened yet & it may not happen at all. So I don't really think I'm going out on any limb by saying that, as of this morning, Carpenter was next on our organizational depth chart behind Worley. And since none of our remaining starting pitching prospects is remotely close to major league ready, I can't see how the FO could have anyone specific in mind who would be next on the depth chart. They probably have some guys in mind whom they HOPE will emerge as that guy (with Ramirez probably topping the list). But, at this point, it's only a hope.

If we were to trade away Blanton & 2 starting pitchers were to get injured before opening day, I'm pretty sure the replacements would be Worley & someone not presently in the Phillies' organization.

I trust someone is keeping a list of which guys are reporting

a) having lost __ lbs of fat

b) having added __ lbs of muscle, or

c) in the best shape of his life

awh- interesting article on Pujols, StL's inability to spend unlimited bucks and the Phils as being a deep pocket franchise.

I don't know that I buy the logic that the Cards can't compete on dollars- the Phils were cast in that light for a long time and it turns out we can come up with the bucks, at least right now.

***I trust someone is keeping a list of which guys are reporting

a) having lost __ lbs of fat

b) having added __ lbs of muscle, or

c) in the best shape of his life

Dont forget about the pitchers that have learned a new pitch, the hitters who have revamped their swing, etc etc.

Charlie uses Coutlangus to relieve the juiced bases left by Schlitter.

For the record, I believe the tally is:

Joe Blanton lost weight. I don't have the #.
Dom Brown added 10 lbs of muscle.
Cole Hamels showed up in the best shape he's ever arrived at camp in.

I heard Cole is also ditching his changeup for a forkball.

I mean, that's a believable rumor to start, right?

"Charlie uses Coutlangus to relieve the juiced bases left by Schlitter."

A Mad Magazine comic vision of this is now stuck in my mind and it's not a pretty sight.

The Phillies must have plans to teach the cutter or splitter to Schlitter.

CJ, Blanton lost 15 pounds. Also, to add to you list:

1. Big Truck lost 22 pounds
2. Rollins did yoga all winter

On the current roster obviously Drew Naylor then J.C. Ramirez are next-in-line as spot-starters after KK and Worley, but if a longer term need developed I could see the 3rd-year not-yet-protected Austin Hyatt passing them on the depth chart.

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