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Thursday, January 27, 2011


I wonder if he'll catch on somewhere.

Odd.that his reason for missing the entire season wasn't disclosed.

I like Keith Law again. I wonder if his attitude changed towards Howard's contract?

re: the Pujols age talk earlier...

The easy way to find out, of course, is to cut open his leg and count the rings.

Keith Law hates the Phillies.

Hey can't win 'em all - we were lucky enough to get Mike Costanzo, Matt Maloney, Brett Harker, Davis Blaine, Jermaine Williams, Jeremy Slayden, and Chris Harris in the fisrt 9 rounds along with Durant.

Jason: Everybody knows Costanzo was the linchpin of the Brad Lidge trade.

Interestingly enough, 2005 was the 1st time we drafted Vance Worley. He didn't sign but we obviously liked what we saw from him even in HS.

Other than Outman, the 2005 draft was a complete wash.

Costanzo technically gets credit for some share of getting Brad Lidge, while Josh Outman(10th) gets some credit for getting us Joe Blanton.

Vance Worley(20th) - and to the much lesser extent Mike Zagurski(12th) - is the last hope in the entire 05 draft to actually translate into some MLB value.

nepp: good call, Worley didnt even sign in 05 - so yea complete wash of a draft.

Worley counts towards the 2008 draft, not 05.

Outman was a big part of the Blanton deal so he worked out just fine.

But his tools were unmatched.

Tools...its all about the tools.

2003's top pick: 2B Timothy Moss.

Another fine selection by the Phillies.

I wonder how common it is for a team to miss on an entire year's draft, getting absolutely no contribution to the parent club?

Fairly common. I mean, in general, most prospects (like 90% probably) never make it to the Majors. If you get 3-4 guys a year that make the Majors and 1-2 that are stars, you're doing a fantastic job.

The 08 draft was fantastic for us and the 09 was pretty good too (Colvin & Singleton).

That 08 draft (despite busts to Collier & Hewitt with the top 2 picks) turned out very well.

Or to take it a step further, how common is it to miss out on an entire draft, just 5 years ago, and still have a Top 5 farm system with veteran talent comprising much of the big league squad?

Big ups to what Phillies Front Office management has done over the last decade or so. Very impressive when you take a step back and look at it holistically vs. dissecting each and every move on its own.

We made up for the couple weak drafts with HR level drafts in other years so it wasn't as bad.

And, of course, we restocked the system with Aumont, Ramirez and Gillies...snicker, snicker.

Would like to point out that Costellanos came in at #75 on Klaw's list. I really wanted him over Biddle last year. Also, Chisenhall was #39 & Freidrich was #87. Both were better picks at the time than Hewitt.

2006 Draft

Kyle Drabek
Adrian Cardenas
Jason Donald
Domonic Brown

2007 Draft

Travis D'Arnaud (Halladay deal piece)
Matt Spencer (Blanton deal filler)
Justin DeFratus
Brian Schlitter (Scott Eyre deal)
Jiwan James (Top 10 prospect currently)

2008 Draft

Anthony Gose (Oswalt deal)
Jason Knapp (Lee Deal)
Vance Worley (5th starter/reliever)
Trevor May (MLB Top 100 prospect)
Jarred Cosart (MLB Top 50 prospect)
A handful of other guys like Mike Schwimer, Julio Rodriguez and Colby Shreve that still have a shot

2009 Draft

Brody Colvin
Jonathan Singleton
a bunch of other nice looking guys that could show up at some point

Jbird, hindsight is 20/20 and this list is about as fluid as it comes (for proof, see how "can't miss" prospect M. Taylor has fallen quite a bit). Personally, I put more stock in the organizational rank, than the specific player ranks, because it speaks to the team's ability to scout and develop across the board.

Chisenhall and Freidrich could be the next Durants, for all we know at this point.

BTW, something to be said for the Phillies "toolsy" approach to the draft? It's hit or miss, but so far, it's worked. (BTW, I want to implement a new drinking game where every time the word "toolsy" is used to describe a Phils draft pick/prospect, we all drink - kerosene).

CJ, great posts in the tail end of the last thread; well worth checking out for those who missed them.

CJ, I know this is semantics and nuance, but when you write (in the last thread), "His control is ahead of his command," what do you mean? I thought control was the major part of command. Can you (or someone else) explain this to me?

I just read where the Texas Rangers GM is taking credit for the Phillies signing Cliff Lee. Although he doesn't explain exactly what he did to make such a claim, he mentions that once he realized that the Rangers would not be able to resign Cliff Lee, he wanted to be sure that Lee did not sign with the Yankees. Interesting, but I am skeptical of his claim. Sounds to me like he's tooting his own horn to show how great he is to his fans back home, despite his failure to resign Cliff Lee.

Lake Fred: he is claiming that he stretched out the negotiations long enough for a 3rd team to get involved...

Speaking of the Yanks missing out on Cliff Lee apparently they spell desperation "B-A-R-T-O-L-O-C-O-L-O-N" up in NYC


admittedly, they signed Colon to a minor league deal.. but still...

Philly Joe, so Rube, Jr. was the knight in shining armor to rescue the damsel in distress (Cliff Lee) form the clutches of the evil Yankees. At least that's the Dallas-Fort Worth area depiction of the events. Ha, ha!

I'd have liked us to sign Colon to a minor-league deal. Nothing wrong with minor-league signings like that.

Heard a rumor from @PigsRadio on Twitter that the Phillies signed Jason Grilli to a minor league deal. No other reports.

What was Grilli doing last year? Was he injured, playing overseas?

He got hurt in Spring Training.

Oh...good to know.

Lake Fred: CJ just cut and pasted Klaw's writeup. In terms of command an control, one is being able to throw strikes and the other is being able to locate within the strikezone. I think the 1st is command and the 2nd is control, but I might have it backwards.

jbird - i think you do have it backwards: control is general ability to throw strikes while command is the ability to locate within the strikezone.

You usually see command when referenced to fastballs i.e. a pitcher is commanding his fastballs when he's able to stay on the corner, while control is usually in reference to offspeed i.e. a pitcher has control of his slider when hes able to throw it for a strike early in the count.

Grilli denies signing with anyone via Twitter.

Hard to believe that it was a mere five years ago that the Phillies made that blockbuster Jason Michaels for Arthur Rhodes swap. Too bad we settled for Cliff Lee instead of Arthur Rhodes this offseason. :)

Preacher: that's not 20/20 hindsight, those were higher ranked amateur prospects (and guys I wanted at the time). Chisenhall & Castellanos even have the added bonus of playing 3b, an organizational weakness. But, water under the bridge, I suppose.

Biggest surprise(from phillies related perspective at least)in Keith Law's top 100 is how far apart Cosart and Colvin are in the rankings.

Just a month or two ago there were lists coming out with Colvin ahead of Cosart, and now Law has Cosart(34) +40 spots ahead of Colvin(77).

I agree with him that Cosart is the better prospect, but I was surprised to see the spread that large. I don't know enough about every prospect to think if Cosart if too high/Colvin too low - but I would suspect a lil bit of both.

someone actually asked Klaw in his espn chat today about those 2 pitchers comparatively jason. He said Cosart had better command a easier delivery and Colvin's stuff, though good, was quite raw. He generally prefered Cosart's repetoire of pitches over Colvin's.

Thanks for all the help about "control" vs. "command". In the news you often hear that firefighters will have a fire under control (within the strike zone), but they never can "command" the fire (Hey fire, go to the left and away.) When you find bugs in your house, you call Pest Control not Pest Command.

If Dom Brown lives up to Bill James' projections I will be buying a Brown jersey before the end of the season.

Cosart's Law ranking is impressive... If his fastball really sits 95-98 he should be one of the top 10-15 pitching prospects in the minors.

NEPP: "The 08 draft was fantastic for us."

Well, a couple of them did help us get two great pitchers so that is indeed fantastic.

OTOH, not a single member of that draft class has proven himself to be a successful major league player yet. It would not be unprecedented if 7 of the 8 players you mention flop.

LF: Jason/phaithful has it right. Command is a subset of Control. Control is the ability to throw strikes. Command is the ability to throw quality strikes (i.e. place the ball where you want it within the strike zone.)

There are lots of guys with good control and velocity who never made it in the big leagues. They often have pretty good minor league numbers.

***Well, a couple of them did help us get two great pitchers so that is indeed fantastic.***

That's what I would call great value. It doesnt matter if they ever develop or not...they helped us get great MLB talent.

clout -- If I was a pitcher who had "...good control and velocity..." I'd be hauling down at least $1mm and change as a middle reliever/set up guy in the Show. Heck, if Kyle Kendrick had "...good control and velocity..." he'd probably be our #4, or traded for prospects (in a heartbeat!) to make way for Oswalt. Just my opinion.

cut_fastball: I'm not trying to be sarcastic or combative, but I truly do not understand what you're trying to say in the above post.

Awaken and arise, here’s a wonderful piece of article that has completely awakened me from the mind as well as the soul. I hope to be the same and do the same as you have mentioned in your article.This artical looks very good...we used to follow it.......

Hey, as long as other GMs, scouts, and analysts keep buying into the whole tools thing, the Phillies will always have a plethora of viable trade fodder.

Seems to me that the trick is to avoid signing a Tool with tools.

Yo, newer thread

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