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Sunday, December 05, 2010

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7yrs for $126million per ESPN, MLBtraderumors and SI

guess he really only wanted the $$ and not to win

Let me be the first to congratulate Werth for being the poster boy for greed run amok. I hope he enjoys playing in front of 12 fans, except for when the Phils are in town. Money talks, chances of winning takes a 7-year walk.

Phan:
If they're lucky it's A-Rodesque. But I think it'll turn out more Zitoesque.

This signing and that of Tulo are making the Howard extension look like pretty good work by Rube.


I mean, really, would you pay $18 million for Werth at 40?

Unreal...You really think Werth is worth that? To me he's not the kind of guy who can take control of a team. Maybe 2-3 years of .280, 25-30HR and then i think he will fade away...Good job on getting the money but have fun sitting at home in October!

For a photo on this thread, you need a picture of Werth and Boras smoking really large cigars.

Let me be the first to congratulate Werth and his family for securing their financial futures, something every person should be entitled to. I hope he enjoys playing baseball for the rest of his career.

And on a 7-year contract, there's NO team that doesn't have a chance to contend in that window. Especially when you have guys like Strasburg and Harper coming and more early 1st round picks on the way.

Andy: It only goes through Werth's age 38 season, not 40. Still a long deal, though, and no, you're not going to want to pay him $18 mill at age 38.

Still, if you're the Nats, you've gotta overpay to get guys there. That's just part of the business.

Isn't Bryce Harper projected to play right field??

I know the Nats needed to do something this offseason after having another horrible season & losing Dunn but signing a 32-year old OF to a 7-year deal? Too bad that by the time the Nats might be a contender in 2-3 years they will be stuck with a real albatross contract.

Can we stop trying to castigate the guy for being greedy?

He has the ability to look for a big free agent contract. He has earned that right and his high level of play over the past 4 years helped boost the number he would get. This may be the only big free agent contract he gets (and at 7 years it should be) and he got himself a big number.

Congrats to Jayson. Good luck in Washington.

Congrats Jayson. This was your one shot at a big deal, and you certainly capitalized. Wish you well in DC. They should be good in a few years.

Odds that Werth is even in a ML uniform in 7 years: <1%. Hell of a job by Boras.

What a dumb Pika.

Well, this is probably the first time ever that people have had to shell out their hard earned cash to overpay some guy under-performing in Washington.

Storen, Strasburg, Zimmerman, Harper, Desmond, Werth and Norris (a top catching prospect) will give the Nats a nice corps over the next 4 years or so but they'll need more than that to be annual contenders.

i'm glad we didn't match this contract... it's too high and too long.

http://longdistancephilliesfan.blogspot.com/2010/12/werth-signs-with-nationals.html

"The Phillies will not receive the Nats' first-round pick as compensation because it is protected, tweets Matt Gelb of the Philadelphia Inquirer. Philadelphia will instead receive the Nats' second-round pick and and a compensatory sandwich-round pick, Gelb tweets."

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/werth-.html


Harrumph.

AGOG.

On the one hand, if you're not willing to overpay for top players, you're never going to get any of those top players. But, even with that caveat, a 7-year contract for a soon-to-be 32-year old seems like a bad idea. It won't be Barry Zito bad, because Werth should still be a good player for a few more years. I'm thinking more like Alfonso Soriano.

Oddly enough, I think the Nats did the Phillies a favor. They lost a lot o power in this exchange of Dunn for Werth. They gained some outfield D and speed. And they spent a lot of money.

And the favor? They don't give the Phils another first round pick. I think Clout is a little more down on Biddle than is warranted at this point. But their lick with first round picks is simply dreadful recently. A sandwich pick and a second rounder added together will probably cost them about what a first rounder in the back half of the first round would have. So, they get two shots to make good instead of one that they almost certainly would blow.

However, they have little change of getting what they really need from the draft now, which is middle infield prospects. The top ones will be long gone and as we've seen, the Phillies simply can't eval that area very well. Since Utley, they done squat. Maybe they'll get lucky with Harold Garcia, but he looks to be more of a utility guy than a major league star or even starter.

How were the Nats not better off next year and in the longer run just simply resigning Dunn to the 4 yr/$56M deal he got from the White Sox?

Too bad they still need another 1B, frontline starting pitcher, and additional pitching help to be a viable contender next year. Rizzo did have to overpay to lure FA to DC but this one came with a really large price tag.

Supposedly Riggelman's role played a big role in Werth coming to DC. My a$$. It was the cash. Pure and simple as it is 95% of the time in sports.

Good for him.


He's officially dead to me as the marquee player on a division rival.

clout - Alot more especially on the pitching front if Strasburg doesn't come back close to what he was before his surgery.

Bummer about the protected 1st round pick. That hurts. Always better to have a high-draft round pick to overspend to grab a guy you really want and then pay slot or slightly under to your next 1st round pick/sandwich pick if necessary.

salisbury reports the phils could resign a RH hitter such as matt diaz or Mark teixeria? isnt teixeria under a lognterm $180 million contract till '16, and a full no trade clause?, a typo by him? maybe a big typo!? or I'am i missing something?

The best part is we get fvcked on the draft pick as he signed with a sh!tty team.

Carl Crawford just got a lot richer.

aksmith - The Phils don't draft middle infielders. They look for them in DSL and VSL. HS and even college middle infielders are seldom good enough to make it. But it would be nice if they picked a few more guys who can play 3B. Well, pick and sign. Damek Tomscha was a missed opportunity.

I'd be interested to see what the final offer was from the Philly, Boston and Detroit. I'm guessing that it was nowhere near 7y/126m.

Can't be mad at Werth. He's got his World Series ring; now it's time to focus on cashing in and supporting your family with the best contract you can get. Taking less to play for a contender would be truly selfish in the eyes of those who matter in his life.

The Nats, on the other hand, are suckers. They're stuck paying a guy with a career of 2.5 productive years $18 million a season until he's 40 for a bat in the lineup that is only marginally better than what they lost in Dunn (and even that is arguable).

End result: DC is no better of a team than they were in 2010 as a result of this move, and it cost them $126 million.

****Storen, Strasburg, Zimmerman, Harper, Desmond, Werth and Norris (a top catching prospect) will give the Nats a nice corps over the next 4 years or so but they'll need more than that to be annual contenders.****

Not to nitpick clout but why are you listing minor league prospects as part of a nice corps when you always rip anyone here that says anything positive about our prospects? I mean, granted Norris and Harper are better raw prospects than our guys but neither is proven at the MLB level nor is either a guarantee to ever be a good player.

I still like Jayson, no hard feelings for this at all.

How will this affect the perception of Howard's contract? If Boras can land enough of these mind-boggling deals every off-season, doesn't it stand to reason that Howard will be undervalued by the end of his deal, even if he's avg at his position?

Heyman reported the Phils best offer 'Jason Bay' money - 4 yr/$66M

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/11553537611800576

You have to hand it to Boras who has delievered time and time again for his clients. This is really a feather in his cap.

You gotta hand it to Boras, he's easily the best agent in all of sports. He got Werth exactly what he was asking for...a Matt Holliday deal.


Werth literally signed for double the $$ of our mid-season offer.

I would equate this Werth deal to the Tigers deal with IRod several years back where they accepted the fact that they had to overpay to get a top line free agent to come to them.

See also, us signing Jim Thome in 2003. Other top guys might actually go there now. Hell of a price though.

MG: Long-run? Who knows.

Short-term? Werth is the better player.

Ironically, I think I mentioned that the Nats would be a sleeper in the Jayson Werth sweepstakes...I mentioned it a couple times during the regular season only to be told "The Nats already have a bunch of OFs".


Too funny.

I don't see this as Boras delivering for his client. Any numbskull could have gotten a foolish organization like the Nats to cough up a deal like this. Boras delivering would have been to get Jayson a lot of money and put him in a position where he isn't expected to pull the wagon. He is the classic definition of a complementary piece. He is not the piece you build your lineup around.

Jayson Werth signing with a fair or good team for 6 years and 90 million would have been brilliance by Boras. All this will turn out to be is a seven year invitation for ridicule and second guessing what should have been a triumphant story. Either way, Jayson is rick and set for life. But this way, he's much less successful in life.

Looks like the nats wont rush harper now, who i guess gets moved to left,1B?, catcher?......or do they move werth to CF?

Will - I largely agree. This move doesn't really improve them that much and doesn't do a thing for their shitty pitching staff.

Maybe they make that Greinke trade but even then will have to give up a few younger pieces they like too.

They have been supposedly though throwing out large contracts off this offseason including to the likes of De La Rosa and other starting FA pitchers because they are desperate to show fans that they are interested in fielding a competitive team now as Rizzo builds to mainly build through the draft and selective international signings.

As for Werth's decision, it is bullcrap about 'family security and doing what is best for them.' $100M+ guaranteed is crazy money at which you are well past 'family security.' He took the largest paycheck by far pure and simple. Winning and playing on a contender is a distant 2nd place.

It isn't like the Nats have been spending a lot of money up til now.

congrats to Jayson's chilren's children's children

Right, MG. He has his ring, time for the big contract. It's his right, just as it's my right to understand but not to agree with his decision. Let's see how he responds to being "the Man."

Back in 04 when Irod signed a 4 year, $40 million deal with the Tigers, it was mocked by most as him taking the most money for a crappy team. This is basically the same.


The Nats DID make runs at Sabathia and Texeira too...they have wanted to spend big $$ for the last few years with no luck.

Jack - Yeah on the defensive side and basepaths but for a team with such a woeful pitching staff they would have been better off saving that money to upgrade on the pitching staff if they really want to field a more competitive team next year.

****As for Werth's decision, it is bullcrap about 'family security and doing what is best for them.' $100M+ guaranteed is crazy money at which you are well past 'family security.' He took the largest paycheck by far pure and simple. Winning and playing on a contender is a distant 2nd place.****

Yes, as if you wouldn't have done the same.

Hmm, should I take the 4 year, $66 million deal or the 7 year, $126 million deal...tough decision.

NEPP - He likely got a much better deal than the Phils 4 yr/$66M deal. Wouldn't have surprised if the Tiger would have gone something like $85-90M range or the Red Sox wouldn't have offered him a great deal.

Yeah, I would be a person who would take 15-20% less to be at a place that was successful and a better fit. Maybe more.

When you get to that kind of money, security is largely irrevelant anymore. With proper money management and investment you can set up 2-3 generations of your family quite easily.

I wonder...

Now that the $66 million Amaro was offering Werth can be spent elsewhere, who's the target? Also, do we have what it takes to land Greinke from KC?

15-20% less maybe...50% less? Yeah, 99% of people take the money. He already won a WS and 2 pennants total. It was time to cash in.


I doubt the Tigers would have offered $90 million.

NEPP - I don't mind Werth taking the larger deal. I don't want to hear the spin/crap that will inevitably follow about how it wasn't really about the money but his relationship with Riggelman, a chance to be a part of a franchise on the rise, etc. Its crap.

****Now that the $66 million Amaro was offering Werth can be spent elsewhere, who's the target? Also, do we have what it takes to land Greinke from KC?****

I believe the owners are looking at a Team Yacht...or perhaps a larger dividend for the ownership group.


On Greinke...I dont think ANYONE has what they are asking for: 2 pitching prospects with ceilings the equivalent of Greinke AND something else. Nobody has that and if they do, they'd be idiots to pay it. How many teams have 2 fairly advanced pitching prospects that project as solid #1s?

NEPP -> i would be perfectly happy with the 4yrs 66Mil, can still set up you and your kids and grandkids with that money if youre not a total fool with it. Then come back out at 36 and try for another smaller contract

Of course its crap, MG. Its no different than the same canned responses that every player gives in an interview (see Bull Durham)


For what its worth...if someone offered me a 100% raise, I'd take it. Werth will average $18 million a year for the rest of his career...not too shabby for a guy that was almost out of baseball 4 years ago due to injuries.

Heyman also tweeted:

Money is flowing in orlando. New predictions: crawford 8 yrs, $144 mil, lee 6 yrs $150 mil

My bet is Werth did get a better than the 4 yr/$66M deal from the Phils because supposedly the Angels, Tigers, O's, and Red Sox also were bidding for his services and the Tigers/O's/Red Sox supposedly offered him a contract too.

****i would be perfectly happy with the 4yrs 66Mil, can still set up you and your kids and grandkids with that money if youre not a total fool with it. Then come back out at 36 and try for another smaller contract****


Double the money and nearly double the years to move to a team where you're the star? He got exactly what he asked Boras to get him. I cant blame him...nor will I ever cheer him again.

Good for Jayson, everyone else: stop hating!

The draft pick is the thing that grinds my gears. I knew he wasn't coming back.

Maybe the Nats will trade us Willingham now.

Next up-The Pirates sign Cliff Lee to a 6 year deal.

Don't knock the players. As long as some GM is going to give big buucks and long years,you can play golf in Oct.

Know what's really hilarious about this? By not only staying in the NL East, but also joining the Gnats who play just down I-95, Werth will have to endure Philly phans more than he would have if he had signed with ANY other team. Guess we'll see just how thick his skin is...

Congrats to Werth. Good for him. No playoffs for him in the foreseeable future.

I can find no fault in him. Boras or RAJ for that matter. Phils made him a good offer, but in the end he had to take this one. It's not greed. Go back to Thome signing with the Phils. Phils offered him 25 million more than Cleveland. Again he had to take it.

Now what remains to be seen is what will Raj do to fill the void. If he offered 66 miliion, he can't say he doesn't have the money to do what needs to be done.

On a positive note:

- The Nats-Phils rivalry which has always been a little chippy gets more fuel on the fire.

So, how does the draft pick situation work?

According to MLBTradeRumors, Washington has the sixth pick in the draft, which is protected, and also the White Sox 23rd pick in the first round for Dunn (which is not protected).

Does that pick now go to Philadelphia? And when is this "sandwich pick"?

This is a guy who found it hard to keep his head in the game when he played in Philly and was poor. There's going to be tons of funny footage of him playing in an empty stadium for a team 20 games out of first.

Sandwich pick is a compensation only round between the 1st and 2nd.

as far as us getting the 23rd which the nats got from the sox i dunno, i hope so

I am with Aksmith and whoever else said Jayson is never going to be the man but a nice complement. At best he will be like a Better Abreu and at worst he will be like a sullen bitchy Rolen when it comes to "greatness" being thrust upon him.

You think he acted strained when he cursed that kid out going for the ball? Wait until he slumps for a year or has another wrist injury and people start booing him and expecting him to be 126 million dollar man. We, NY and Boston may have a high pressure press, wait until he blows up down there. The only one not covering it will be the Christian Science Monitor.

A lot of Werth bashing. What did people expect? He'd have to be an idiot not to take that deal.

I like that people are now trying to downplay how good a player Werth is.

@RT

endure philly fans....

do you think he is going to get booed when he comes back? i dont. he didnt demand a trade or want to leave town. i have no hard feelings at all for jwerth.

he helped this team win a world series and 4 straight divisions. i think fans could sarcastically boo if he hits a homer but i think he will always get some applause when he's in town.

TTI,
You gotta admit, this is the MVP money, not "good guy to have when he is on" money.

rauls' grandpa: My comment has nothing to do with the money he is getting. 3 months ago people were demanding the Phillies re-sign him. Now he is just an average player.

phils and nova - No way. He gets booed quite loudly at the first Nats-Phils home game even though I generally agree with what you said. I wouldn't boo him either.

For a guy who wasn't really here that long (4 seasons) and was only a full-time starter for 3+ years, he definitely made his mark and became a pretty popular player here in a relatively short time-frame.

"3 months ago people were demanding the Phillies re-sign him."

3 months ago anyone paying attention already knew he was gone.

People show a disturbing lack of comprehension skills on this blog sometimes.

TTI - Who said he is an average player? He is a good player who got overpaid.

Yeah he can play all 3 OF positions but his defense has slipped in RF the past few years. Struggled notably in the 1st half with the Phils. Wouldn't surprise me that if the Nats had to move him to 1B/LF in another year or two.

Just don't see how he is worth that much more to the Nats than Dunn was. If they want to win now, they would have been better off using some of the money ($4-5M) to get additional pitching help they desperately need.

curt - Yeah. The day the Phils acquired Oswalt, Werth was gone.

Yeah, it's a lot of money, but he has to know he won't even be SNIFFING the playoffs anytime soon, and that's what I don't like about this.

Werth could've ended up on a team like the Yankees. Would I have liked it? Hell no, but I would've understood. The Yankees have deep pockets AND a long tradition of winning. The Nationals? Uhh, not so much...

This signing tells me that Jayson Werth really was all about the money and nothing else.

MG: Read some of the other comments.

Fans shouldn't be angry with Jayson. The Phils chose not to pursue him. It seemed like he would have been happy to stay.

MG -- i dont know. i think he'd get loudly booed if he went to the mets or sox or yankees but he's going to the nats. most people expected him to leave town and since he's going to a last place team, although within the division, i think the reaction will be generally positive.

simply judging by the reaction on facebook, people are generally sad or dissapointed, not angry that he signed with the nationals.

...not too shabby for a guy that was almost out of baseball 4 years ago due to injuries.

NEPP nailed it. If Werth reinjures his wrist, especially in the next several years, he will be the most enormous free agency albatross in history. My reasoning is that his initial wrist injury nearly derailed his ML career, and an older player heals more slowly.

I sure hope Mr. Gillick can dredge up another Werthian rehab project for the OF. Excepting Werth's abysmal 2010 BA w/RISP, which hardly mattered a lick in the long run as the Phil's had the most regular season wins, Werth represented an amazing value during his 4 years here.

first donovan -now jayson

is Washington going to become phila south

I think boras is a pig & frankly so is werth...

to play a kid's game & to get paid that insane amount of money...

yeah- he's a 5 tool guy who was on the scrap heap until gillick & the phillies helped him resurrect a career.

how much help can werth be to a team like Washington?

also - explain why we do not get a 1st round pick... is that really correct or fair?

I think baseball's is greed gone awry. I think that the owners should insist on there should a salary cap in the next contract and let the players go on strike for a yr or 2, & see how far it gets them...

I think this is just insulting for working stiffs ( I have a 12-14 hour work day)
& will never come close to seeing even a fraction of that kind of money. most players are so far removed from reality - it's sickening...

good bye werth and good riddance.


Can't blame Werth for grabbing the longest and most valuable contract that he could. The guy was, after all, almost out of baseball due to injuries very early in his career. He understands how quickly the game can turn on you, and he went for the greatest amount of security possible. Its really unfair to get mad about that, even though the deal he got is absolutely crazy.

And yeah, that team isn't going to be very competitive, but Werth probably convinced himself (with Boras' help) that Strasburg and eventually Harper would make the Nats a contender in a year or two.

This is a wonderful story for Werth. Five years ago, the guy almost had his career ruined by a AJ Burnett fastball. Now, he's achieved financial success that most can only dream of.

Too bad the deal wasn't with the Tigers.

I can't believe anyone is faulting Werth for taking this contract. Anyone who doesn't take this deal is insane. I'd go play in Alaska for that money.

He's probably sold on a couple of more years of suffering and then they'll have a great team. By that point Werth could be in the Aaron Rowand category.

Rube has to be breathing a sigh of relief cause no one can criticize the Phils for not matching that offer and keeping him. Sucks we got screwed on the draft pick.

This deal doesn't really make the Nats any better offensively as it just makes up for Dunn, but it does improve them greatly defensively. I guess they had to overpay to make a splash.

Now time to move on and figure out what we are going to do with basically two outfield spots that need to be filled and take care of that lefty issue in the bullpen. I wonder if we could take some of Werth's money and try to get Fuentes, who would be a great lefty out of the pen and backup closer.

TI: I'm not downplaying Werth's talents - just the relatively small sample size that we have of these talents on display compared with others who have signed similar contracts.

I can't think of a single player who has signed a > $100 million dollar contract after less than three productive years.

On the other hand, I can think of a long list of names who have been superstars for a short time and fell off of a very steep cliff for one reason or other (Bo Jackson, Dontrelle Willis, Eric Gagne, etc...). Seven years? For 7 years at that money, I'll drive him to DC myself.

People bemoaning the amount of money professional athletes make are full of it. You're pro-billionaire and anti-millionaire? Only in America...

And Congrats to Jayson. He's earned it.

1. Man wants to get paid.

2. Man earns right to get paid.

3. Man gets paid.

There's nothing else to discuss.

4. Fan has right to hope he hits .224

I bet the Nats go after Greinke.

Suckers! I live in the WDC area and this week the newspapers berated the Nats generally for being cheap and specifically for botching their relationship with Dunn. (Kasten giving up and getting away was the real loss.) It's not clear the ownership knows what it's doing, especially after this deal. As one of the top employees in a profession of only 1200 employees worldwide, congratulations to Werth for cashing in! But "Go Phils," of course.

I'll miss the Beard...but talk about the classic bad team overpaying for talent scenario. That contract is just awful and Werth would've been a fool not to take it (and the Phillies would've been even more foolish to match it). Once again Boras proves that he can dupe any desperate organization into a ridiculous contract.

In regards to "badmouthing" Jayson Werth, the simple truth is that he's a great complimentary player that is now getting paid to be a superstar. Simply put, he is not a superstar and he's on the wrong side of 30 and this contract will turn out to be one of the worst in the history of baseball. Glad it wasn't the Phillies that were stuck with it, honestly.

What's the beef with all the dough he's getting? By the time Boras, Werth's home state and our Uncle Sammy get done with him, he'll take home $4-6M annually, maybe. This could be his only free agency, so I don't even call it greedy to go for the most years and hence the most money. It's self-respecting.

The Gonzalez deal to Boston is on again. Beltre not in the running for the A's. I wonder if Betre can play the OF. hmmmm.

I was talking to a family member a while ago and he thinks the Phils will now do domething we are not expecting. Maybe a major trade. I told him I doubted that would happen.

In leiu of that, he does feel also that we could sign 2 RH bats and the LH reliever. I'm interested in anyone's thoughts on what we will do.

This contract is telling me one thing and one thing loudly. A dollar today will be werth much less in 7 years. The big boys know this. If you really need a car to fill your right wing garage buy it now.

Probable deal: sign M Diaz

The unexpected fantasy deal: a threesome with the Phils landing Upton

When the current leftwing regime gets done with the economy, it's surely possible that $18M will be worth a whole lot less than it's worth now. If that's the case, I'm not sure any of us will be in a mood to applaud the Nationals' wisdom for anticipating runaway inflation. When did A-Rod sign his big contract with the Rangers? That's still a lot of money, all these years later.

So now the Phillies have all this funny money to spend on several players and signing them to only two and three year contracts. Rube is a genius again.

You guys are nuts with this inflation talk, maybe Werth watches Glenn Beck like you RR and demanded his salary all in gold and MREs.
Speaking of which, anybody of our DC-area people on the board work in DC? What are the taxes like for a non-resident? I cannot imagine Werth will move into the city.

Why should he move?

Also, the so-called Big Boys are big, because we, the fans, make them big. If the top 1200 [insert your favorite everyday professional, firefighters, for example] in the world commanded our attention and created thousands of jobs, fueling a multi-billion industry, to the extent these players do, then they might pull down $18M annually too.

Werth is a true WFC and I'm gonna miss him. I hope he does well in Washington, except against the Phils. Basic stuff here.

It won't be DC. No one moves into DC. They move out, in droves starting in the 1980s. The District has taxed everyone into the VA suburbs.

I don't know where JW's legal residence is, but he's be subject to that jurisdiction's tax laws. Whatever he pays, no number of JWs and A-Rods or Big Pieces will solve the deficit.

I don't begrudge him a penny. I do have a problem with jealous socialists who expect to glomb onto his deal.

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