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Thursday, December 02, 2010


I'm shocked!


Please no Art Rhodes Part II. I almost guarantee failure...again!

Hmmm....Reyes or Rhodes....

How about, um:


And Carson, what's with the "almost"? You think Rhodes has a chance of succeeding?

For what it's worth, Rhodes was a setup man the last time he signed with the Phils. He would only be asked to do what JC Romero did.
If the Red Sox don't tender Okajima, I think he would be worth a look (picking up the Red Sox's garbage (romero) has worked before)

I'd favor Feliciano for the simple fact that you get him on your side and you never have to face him again.

And do you really want another 40 year old on a team that frankly looked stale and old against the Giants in the Championship Series?

The answer all lies with trading for that Mark Reynolds. I just think the Diamondbacks will give him away. Let all the other chips fall where they may.
This Feliciano is no spring chicken. For that matter, if you are a young guy who is relegated to a specialist role, you probably ain't that special.

YES!!! Arthur Rhodes!!

Just the kind of young, fresh talent this team so desperately needs.

After we snag Art, maybe we can get Charlie Hough, Pete Rose and Jose Canseco to fill out the roster.

What Rube is telling us, no matter who he brings in, is thay the player(s) won't be yopung or expensive.

how about taking a flier on hideki okajima? the red sox just non-tendered him. i bet he can be effective against hitters who are still unfamiliar with his weird, head-down delivery.

Okajima would be a great signing.

I'd love to see Crawford sign with the Sox, as that would really increase the chances of Werth returning at a reasonable price.

Angels are going to sign either Crawford or Werth. They have the cash, desperately need a corner OF, and Moreno isn't afraid to spend in FA if necessary.

Jose Mesa's agent is on Line 2, Mr. Amaro. Gene Garber on Line 3.

When you fill holes via free agency, you can't very well expect that you're going to get younger, since most players eligible for free agency are on the older side. The few who are young are usually guys who were non-tendered by their old team which, by definition, means they probably aren't very good.

However, there are different gradations of old. It's one thing to go after a guy who's 35 and quite another to go after one who's 41. If they sign Rhodes, it will end as badly as it ended the first time.

Remeber when we were going to trade for Jose Lopez last summer? Good nonmove right there.

Pat Gillick up for Veteran's Committe Election to Hall of Fame, announced Dec 6th.

Steve Garvey too.

Scott Hairston nontendered.

Cheap, .278/.331/.498 - .829 career OPS vs LHP, can play CF.

Sign Jack up for that fanclub.

Is there any free agent that Amaro could realistically sign that people won't immediately bitch about?

For the right price, Rhodes isn't a bad signing. I'll take a vet in the pen coming off of a good season over full reliance on an unproven youth like Herndon.

"Is there any free agent that Amaro could realistically sign that people won't immediately bitch about?"

Probably not, but I'd be skeptical of a guy like Rhodes. He's old and coming off a good season, which could mean he's due for a bad season.

Jason: Depends what we're looking for. If we're looking for a 5th OF to pinch-hit in the 6th inning against lefties? Sure.

If we're looking for a full-time RF while Dom plays in AAA? That would be an absolutely horrible move.

WS - For the right price although I just wonder about his health issues. His planter facititis really effected him down the stretch last year. He was still generally effective after the ASB although he did miss time and was limited to brief outings due to the issues with his foot.

There are plenty of LOOGYs on this year's free agent market. We don't need to gamble that a 41-year old injury-prone power pitcher has one more good year left in him. Let some other team take that gamble.

I second Feliciano. get him away from the mets b/c he kills howard and utley

Rhodes could be an effective LOOGY, like Romero, but anyone should have serious qualms about moving him to a different role. And what's past is prologue.

"Probably not, but I'd be skeptical of a guy like Rhodes. He's old and coming off a good season, which could mean he's due for a bad season."

I see what you're saying, but using this logic, it's a foregone conclusion that he'll have a bad 2011. If he had a good year in 2010, he's due to regress. If he had a bad 2010, it's proof that he can't get the job done.

We put much greater responsibility in a much older man in Moyer. Rhodes as a LOOGY isn't a bad move if the money is right.

I don't like Reyes or Rhodes, but given the fact that Reyes is 33 I'd rahter have him, if I had to choose between the 2.

As far as RF is concerned, I don't know if Brown's ready or not. But with him be LH, he will not be in the lineup with Raul. At least I don't think so. Can we afford to take that gamble? We may need an everyday RH'der who hits RH. There aren't many out there.

Well, I guess I'd be happy with just adding a LH RP to go with Bastardo. But there are gradations of quality out there. Rhodes better be cheap since he'll only be available half the time and there are no LH RP options in the Phillies' farm system.

i wouldn't only list his LHP splits and ability to back up CF if I wanted Hairston as a full time RF.

I'd be cool with a straight platoon for the first month or two and hope Brown wins the full time job. If Brown can't do it, then either he is playing awful and was a mistake to bring up or Hairston is playing over his head which is a good thing.

I'd rather resign JC Romero than sign Arthur Rhodes, and I can't stand Romero.

Andy's right that there isn't a single LOOGY option in our minors. That means we should actually sign 2 LOOGYs: one for the major league roster & one for minor league depth. Dan Meyer doesn't qualify.

BAP~ I'd rather them bring back JC given all of the remaining options bit it doesn't appear that will happen.

I still maintain that RAJ will bring in only aging, cheap players. he will try to put a good spin on whatever he does. But we will not be happy.

I'm a pessimist I know, but I just have a gut feeling.

Mike Zagurski is rolling over in his own...well anything he lays in i guess. - dirty sheets littered with empty natty ice cans and camel light butts, I assume.

I understand the resignation that we're going to lose Jayson Werth. I understand the concerns that Domonic Brown might not be ready. What I do NOT understand is all the pining for garbage like Scott Hairston, Jeff Francoeur, Bill Hall, and Matt Diaz.

If we're going to bring someone in, it should be someone who has the potential to be dynamic (i.e., Ordonez, Guerrero, Upton). If the options are the likes of Francoeur, Hall, and Hairston, I'd rather just let Domonic Brown play full time and take my chances. I don't know how he'll do, but I'm willing to be that he won't be any worse than any of the names I just listed. Besides, if a platoon is what's in order, why on earth would we bring in a right-handed platoon option who is substantially worse than the right-handed platoon option we already have?

Bed Bear: "Probably not, but I'd be skeptical of a guy like Rhodes. He's old and coming off a good season, which could mean he's due for a bad season."

So you'd rather have a young guy who is coming off a bad season?

Yes, Rhodes could have a bad season, he COULD even be as bad as he was in '06, but let's put this in perspective. 1) In '06 he was obviously hurt as it was easily the worst year of a very good career. He was out all of '07 because of those injuries. 2) He was the 8th inning setup guy that year and he would not be asked to have that kind of workload.

To me, Rhodes makes a lot of sense. Sure, Feliciano would be fine, too...but I don't give a huge advantage to one over the other. And if I recall, Utley has pretty good numbers against Feliciano so all this talk about "at least the Phillies won't have to face him" is pretty silly.

b_a_p: I agree with your above post. I like that fact that you are making no predictions/determinations on what Brown will do/not do if he plays everyday or platoons -- because no one can know. The point is that (a) if you're going to bring in a FA bat while Brown is in AAA, it better be someone "dynamic"; and (b) if you're going to platoon Brown with someone, why bring in the Hairstons and Francoeurs of the world when you already have Francisco?

I am not saying that Ben Francisco is a star. I will say that he is good enough to get regular playing time (potential starter) on a non-contending team. Therefore, I think that a platoon role on a contender is not out of the question.

So the options are as follows, IMO:

1. Make Brown the starting RF;
2. Bring in a big FA RH bat to start while Brown is in AAA; or
3. Platoon Brown and Francisco.

I know this is not an original idea (as others on BL have certainly pointed it out), but I don't see why anything else should be done. An insurance policy for Brown is fine. Isn't that why you have a 4th outfielder? Don't the Phillies have one already?

BAP: So you have no problem letting Dom play even if he's hitting .189 on July 1 and is clearly not ready?

Rhodes is effective against lhb and still has good zip on this fastball. He won't be asked to log many innings, which he can no longer do. He's a good LOOGY option -- assuming it is a inexpensive 1 year deal.

BAP: Do you think you Magglio Ordonez can be signed for a a couple million dollars on a 1 year deal to platoon with Brown?

I dont. Thats why I am looking for other options.

clout: The point is, why sign a mediocre RH corner outfielder? Either sign a (potential) stud to let Brown work out his (potential) troubles in AAA, or don't sign anyone. My reading of BAP's post, hence my response, is that if the choice is between Hairston, Francoeur, et al. and Francisco, I go with Francisco.

So you have no problem letting Dom play even if he's hitting .189 on July 1 and is clearly not ready?

No more than I'd be comfortable with Jeff Francoeur hitting .189 on July 1.

I wouldn't mind seeing them sign Hairston to a reasonable deal for one reason; he can play centerfield. I don't think any of these other guys being mentioned can do that. In past years when Vic was out or needed a day off Werth slid in there and there was no problem. With Werth gone there isn't a single viable centerfield replacement in the organization. A major Victorino injury would be devastating. Hairston isn't great but that would be an important asset that he brings to the table.

I agree that you either let Brown see what he can do or use Fransicsco as a platoon or everyday OF. Also, I like the idea of having the extra OF spot to carry Mayberry as the 5th OF. We need to see what he can do. I know he has some obvious issues, but he can definitely hit a fastball, and run, and play good defense...

I will admit:

Signing Jayson Werth, trading for Carlos Quentin or Justin Upton, or getting Manny back on steriods will all get you better production in RF than a platoon of Brown/Hairston.

But if you make a decision based on real factors, such as Werth wanting too much money/years, not having the peices to trade for Upton/Quentin, or MLB's drug testing policy - it makes a lot more sense to bring a cheap RH option for only 1 year, hits LHP better than every bench player on your current roster, and can play multiple positions at better than replacement level including CF - which is what I am proposing.

Was not enthusiastic about Rhodes when I read the post and the vast majority of the comments reminded me why I was underwhelmed.

RF is a thornier problem. I understand that having Brown as the starting RF entails risk since he would be learning on the job. Questions to me are (1) whether the likes of Francoeur would truly be all that much better than dealing with the problems of Brown going through his learning curve; and (2) if Brown really struggles early on in an everyday role with the big club ( and he may well), would this retard/hinder his overall development toward the goal of being a starting, productive RF?

Don't know if the above was phrased well, but I always thought at some point, the guys have to learn to hit the pitchers in the show and sink or swim on their own. Is Dom there?

Rbills: won't argue with that francisco as a platoon candidate. However, that leaves you with 12 position players. Who would be your 13th? Carry a 8 man bullpen instead? Carry another infielder?

I would fill it by adding another outfielder. Kevin raises a point that Mayberry could be a candidate. I am pretty down on Mayberry, but i guess thats not a horrible idea.

On this board there is a ton of negativity on certain players. So it always surprises me when someone like Mayberry continues to get support. I'm with you Jason, I have absolutely no confidence in Mayberry. Many on here still seem to have some. He's had limited chances to show what he can do at the major league level, but he's never impressed me. I think some of us on here are as in love with toolsheds as the Phillies front office. And I know the guy can run but I don't want to see him in center under any circumstances.

There's two different options which are being conflated here. One is getting a righty to platoon with Brown (which seems to be what is advocating). The other is getting someone in here to play RF FULL-TIME while Dom plays in AAA (which I believe is what Clout is advocating).

Which option you are discussing is very important. If it's the first, then someone like Hairston is at least worthy of consideration. If it's the latter, then b_a_p is correct that those guys are a joke and should never be considered.

Also, my personal opinion is that either Brown should play RF every day or someone else should play every day. A platoon with Brown does not work for me, partly for developmental reasons, and partly because I think we should already be having a platoon in LF between Ibanez/Francisco, and I'm not a huge believer in having two different platoons going in the OF.

I advocate the former Jack. And if that is the route chosen I think we need someone that can also fill in in centerfield. I don't totally hate the idea of the rhb being Francisco, but it does make me a bit nervous. If you go that way you still need a back up CF. The only reason to consider Francisco IMO is that he's cheap. In fact I consider Francisco preferable to someone like Hairston except for the centerfield thing.

You make a good point Jack. We could potentially be talking about platooning the wrong guy. I know we all hopt that is the case. I only consider platooning Brown if he struggles mightily. If he doesn't the rhb could platoon with Ibanez. Still, it seems as if I'm the only one who is worried about a backup for Vic.

Jack: A platoon is actually a pro-developmental thing for me. I'd rather cater the situations Brown is in for his first few months by giving him mostly RHP to hit and try to get him playing well and confidence up.

I guess thats just a difference in opinion on the value of a platoon.

clout: I would have a problem letting ANYONE play who is hitting .189 on July 1. That's why you have backups. But I fail to see how the likes of Francoeur, Hall, Diaz & (especially) Hairston are better backups than the one we already have.

Amaro has my full blessing to go find a potential impact bat like Ordonez to serve as a full-time outfielder. If he can't (or chooses not to), I don't see the point in spending good money on a guy who's no better than Francisco. I'd rather spend in areas where we can make a meaningful upgrade.

Lefty Alternatives to Rhodes:
(AVG/OPS vs. LH Batters over last 3 seasons)
*Brian Fuentes (.192/.493)
*Joe Beimel (.252/.692)
*Tim Byrdak (.176/.604)
*Scott Downs (.197/.580)
*Randy Choate (.178/.474)
*Pedro Feliciano (.212/.583)
*Dennys Reyes (.234/.626)
*Hisanori Takahashi (.217/.544)
*Hideki Okajima (.207/.574)

BTW- Howard & Utley on Always Sunny in Philly tonight.

if you sign a RF free agent to start in place of Brown, and Brown goes to AAA, you still have a 24 man roster.

So for those who want to bring in a more impact RF, what would you do for your 25th? Valdez Schnieder Gload Fransisco cover C/1B/2B/SS/3B/LF/RF.

You have no one to back up CF.

Who is our AAA CF? Chris Duffy? Bump up Quentin Berry for Reading? It needs to be a free agent, which is as follows:

Center fielders
Rick Ankiel (31)
Willie Bloomquist (33)
Melky Cabrera (26)
Jim Edmonds (41)
Jody Gerut (33)
Tony Gwynn (28)
Scott Hairston (31)
Dewayne Wise (33)

In a pinch, Francisco can play CF if need be.

jason: I strongly suspect that the only way we would sign a guy like Ordonez would be if we off-loaded Ibanez for salary relief. That would take care of the roster math. If we somehow kept Ibanez AND acquired a guy like Ordonez, then I imagine we would trade Francisco.

bap: who would start in LF?

dumping ibanez would actually make you have an extra OF to fill, not get rid of the current missing spot.

carson: good point i did not know he had that many innings in CF (337 in his career), so maybe i am harping on that too much.

Francisco is a mediocre (being charitable) corner outfielder. If we need somebody to fill in for any extended amount of time, I don't think he's the guy.

Arthur Rhodes? What, Three Finger Brown isn't available?

Takahashi is going to the Angels. Way to go Rube.

jason: Brown-Vic-Ordonez, with Gload & Francisco as backups.

BAP: so your issue is that Ibanez is the problem not Brown?

And thats still only 24 people on your roster by the way. 12 pitchers, 8 starters, and 4 bench players (valdez schnieder gload francisco).

Nahhhh Old Phan. He only had one finger left now. That finger is meant to flip people off. I guess he's One Finger Brown now(not to mention that he's quite dead).

jason: First, I wasn't undertaking to decide who should be the 25th man on the roster. It should probably be someone who can play 3rd base, but that's unrelated to the OF dilemma.

Second, Ibanez is not MY issue and, while I regard him as overpriced, I don't regard him as inadequate. I'm simply very skeptical that the Phillies would spring for an impact bat like Ordonez without simultaneously off-loading substantial salary. Ibanez seems to be the natural candidate, for multiple reasons. I know some posters (notably MG) think he's immovable. But if the Phillies took on about half his salary, I see no reason why he couldn't be moved.

The OF dilemma(I thought) was whether to:

#1. sign a free agent to play RF


#2. Let Dom Brown play start as a rookie.

You answered: Sign a free agent for RF AND let Brown start as a rookie.

Thats why I am not following your logic here.

Okajima and Jenks got non-tendered. Obviously we need a lefty more but I think both could fit on the Phillies.

OK, so the consensus is that Ben Francisco is better than any other possible alternative to Brown.

Can you please list Francisco's extraordinary skills to support that assertion? The same posters opposing any alternative are the same who bashed Francisco all season long for his poor defense, bad base running acumen and lack of power and clutch hitting.

Here's kind of my thinking on this. If they both play to their capabilities, Dom Brown is better than crappy veteran OF X (Hairston, Hall, Frenchy, etc.). If they both play poorly, the Phils are screwed either way.

Now, you might offset Brown's talent advantage by his higher likelihood to not play well, but I think you still have to take in the benefits of his development, even if the Phils are playing to win next year.

I would play Brown, over those guys. Obviously, if you could get someone like Quentin, Mags, etc., that changes the calculus significantly. I'm not against getting a RF; I'm against getting a BAD RF.

Oddly, amongst all the bashing of Rhodes' poor season with the Phillies, not a single poster mentioned the most important factor: He pitched that season with a torn ligament in his elbow.

He had TJ surgery at season's end, missed all of 2007 and once he was healthy posted the following OPS vs. LH hitters: .453, .380 and .623.

I understand the prevailing opinion that Bastardo will be a superstar if only they'd pitch him, but don't you think another LOOGY would be useful just in case you're wrong?

Clout: Another lefty is useful even if Bastardo is quite effective.

Also, the notion that platooning hurts a rookie's development is absurd. Didn't Utley platoon as a rookie?

Clout: I thought you'd argued that Brown should be playing every day, either at AAA or in the Show?

If Brown has a decent spring they should bring him north as the starter in right. He should start against all but the toughest of lefthanders. Francisco starts the other games and also spells Ibanez. If DB craps the bed, then you have a problem. With any luck the starting rotation keeps us in contention until the trading deadline or shortly before and we can use the money already saved to pick someone up. At least that makes sense to me. I still think another outfielder would help with the CF situation though. I don't know if Rube is thinking this way, in fact I doubt it. If not he could make a splash. It's not like him to just sit and do nothing.

Jack: Ideally, he will because he'll hit lefties. The issue here is do you play to win or not.

If you're playing to win and Brown shows he can hit all pitching then he starts everyday. If he doesn't hit at all, then he goes down. If hits RHP, but not LHP, then he platoons.

Again, if the Phils weren't contenders I'd be all for playing Brown and Francisco every day.

Clout: So what do you do on Opening Day?

I mean, are you really going to make this decision based on 75 Spring Training ABs, 50 of which come against roster filler? That seems crazy to me.

"The same posters opposing any alternative are the same who bashed Francisco all season long."

I plead guilty, sort of. I did bash Francisco all year long and I can't stand him as a player. His defense is awful, his base-running is rotten, & he's the absolutely last player on the team I want batting in anything resembling a clutch situation. I, nonetheless, think he's a better hitter than Hall, Francoeur, Hairston & Diaz. His defense sucks but I'm less concerned about defense than offense.

And, for the record, I'm not opposing ANY alternatives to Francisco. I'm just opposing the alternatives that are worse than him. I've said repeatedly that I think we should sign Ordonez, who clearly is an alternative and clearly is NOT worse than Francisco.

Clout- The Antique Rhodes Show will be 41 next season. That's risky. There's other options that are likely just as good, possibly better, and might come cheaper and less risky.

I understand that teams make decisions based on Spring Training, but those decisions are usually much more marginal than this.

And yes, if Brown hit like Hewyard last year, or went 2-50, then that decision would be made easy. But what if he just hits .280 with a few HRs, and hits decently but not great against lefties, like .250 or so, but shows some good approach. That's a tough decision, then, and one that I think you'd be mistaken in making based on a tiny sample of ST ABs (like let's say you sign Hairston and he hits .375 in ST).

My personal opinion is that unless Brown bombs in ST, or you could acquire someone like Quentin or Mags, you should plan on Brown being your everyday RF.

"My personal opinion is that unless Brown bombs in ST, or you could acquire someone like Quentin or Mags, you should plan on Brown being your everyday RF."

That sounds right to me Jack.

Jason: I'm not sure what's so difficult about my logic. But here we go again.

If money is no object, I think we should sign Ordonez and go with an opening-day OF of Ordonez-Vic-Ibanez, with Brown in AAA. But money almost certainly IS an object & I simply do not believe the Phillies would be willing to pay what Ordonez will command unless they dump some of Ibanez's salary. In other words, I think the Phillies' payroll can probably accommodate Ordonez or Ibanez, but not both. Since we are losing the best right-handed bat in our lineup, I'd rather have the guy who's right-handed.

Has anyone mentioned the Phils tendered contracts to Kyle Kendrick and Ben Francisco today?

I know I was assured earlier this year that there was NO WAY they'd tender a contract to Francisco, so I'm not sure how it possibly happened.

"you could acquire Mags or Quentin"

Mags is a free agent and in his upper 30s, Quentin is on the White Sox and in his his late 20s. There is a big difference of acquiring one from the other.

As much as I respect Rhodes for this ( Lidle tirade (before his plane accident post-catching him playing games online during a game) and cut him slack for his poor pitching due to arm issues and the psychological weight he carried about his son being sick and dying at age 5, I don't expect blood from a stone from this guy. Okajima got issues too but I think I would go with him or Feliciano as they are fresh off big city assignments. They both have less TJ surgeries than Art too.

I get your logic, you prefer Mags or a similiar right handed hitter over Ibanez is you had the choice - but for some reason when I said your problem is with ibanez, you said no its not.

jason: My problem is not with Ibanez per se. My problem is with the idea of having Brown & Ibanez in the same outfield, after our best right-handed hitter has left.

Braves non-tender Matt Diaz. Phils may be interested.

bap: understood. The issue that jack, myself, and others were debating was how to handle Brown this season - which in your scenario, Brown would start and/or platoon with Fransico in left while we pick up a right handed bat to replace ibanez.

Jack: I actually like Ruben's idea: The job isn't handed to Brown, he has to win it. That means he has to show in ST that he can hit and field at the major league level for a contender.

He's young and there's plenty of time for him to blossom. But he shouldn't be allowed to cost the team a playoff spot.

Non-tendered = all-star (in a GM's ears) = cha-ching

BAP: Matt Diaz is clearly a better hitter than Francisco. It's not even close.

jason: Correct. And Francisco would be the one platooning, since he hits better than the other right-handed platoon options. Of course, the one hole in my scenario is that it leaves Francisco as the backup centerfielder, which is scary. But, other than the horrible Scott Hairston, those other right-handed platoon options aren't centerfielders either.

Clout: No, we would much prefer Scott Hairston or Matt Diaz to cost us a playoff spot.

Anyway, what's to say the same issue doesn't come up next year? I mean, under your plan, if Brown tears it up in AAA in 2011, but then struggles in the majors in limited ABs in September, should he be allowed to cost us a playoff spot in 2012 too?

At some point, the kid has to play in the majors. To me, you don't let some random body who just got non-tendered from your rival block him. I think it's Brown's job to lose.

(This winter at the batting cage in St.Pete's, an outfield steps in and starts taking his cuts)
Good morning, good morning
Good morning, RAJ
Who we got in there?
Matt Diiiii-az
Matt Diiii-az?
Yeah, he's the non-tendered OF you gave the $10, bottle of booze and the hooker to.
Sounds like solid-gold already.

clout: Really? Weren't you the guy who, just the other day, said that a 3-year window is the best way to evaluate a player? Diaz's OPS+ over the last 3 years have been 50, 132, 99. Francisco's have been 103, 117, 104. Diaz is better only if you think we're getting the version of Diaz which existed 4 or 5 years ago. I'm not terribly confident of that. I AM pretty confident of what Francisco will give us next year.

It seems odd to me, Clout, with your high standards for the Phils to compete this year, that you think those options (Diaz, Hairston, Hall, etc.) are acceptable everyday RF's for a championship-contending team.

Because no other team in baseball ever has.

Dunn 4 years, $56 M with White Sox

Ben Fracisco, as a RH bench bat who plays all 3 outfield positions, is excellent. As a starter, his numbers are statistically average for MLB, his OPS in 2009 was .779 and in 2010 (with 197PA) is was .768. NL average for an LF/CF/RF? 0.771/.737/.778.

Francisco is your league average outfielder. And he's on the bench. That's great. That's outstanding. It's the position you want to be in. Because when he starts, yeah, it's a step down, but you know you'll get league average production out of the guy.

The problem I have with not signing a veteran OF/RF is starting Brown for 2011. I think he needs seasoning for another year at AAA, both for defense and because it's he has a hole in his swing: high and tight fastballs. He can't get around on them at all and needs to learn how. I'd rather he do this in AAA than at the Major League level.

So signing an RH bat for a year, even two (where you move say Ordonez to LF for 2012) sounds perfectly feasible to me. And considering Werth is looking at 5-6 years at 16 mil + per year, it's the better option.

BAP: Well if I wanted to be dishonest, I would be sure to include the 2 years Diaz was hurt and had fewer than 225 ABs with the year he was healthy and had 371 ABs and an .878 OPS. And then I would lie and say that you said stats are only meaningful in a 3 year section, even though you said that only in reference to UZR.

clout: I'm pretty sure you said something about a 3-year window in relation to hitting too. If you didn't, I'll say it; I think it's a pretty good way of measuring. Diaz has been a pretty bad hitter in 2 of the last 3 seasons. If it's because of injury, that, in itself, is a concern. But I'll grant you that, if Diaz can play to 2006/2007/2009 form, then he's a considerably better hitter than Francisco. He's certainly more interesting to me than guys like Hall, Francoeur & Hairston.

Only on Beerleaguer is Matt Diaz the missing piece to a championship team.

Of course, a contending team with poor OFs just non-tendered Matt Diaz, instead of paying him 3 million something.

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