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Tuesday, December 07, 2010

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If it was DelMON Young I'd be interested. Delwyn? meh

Andy would you take 25 year old, RH outfielder delmon young making less than 3 mill/year for D-brown and other stuff. i think i would.

Delwyn Young looks like a 25th man to me; not a platoon partner for Brown. He has some athleticism and versatility. He got some work at 2B last year and didn't totally embarrass himself in every game. The pop he showed in the PCL, though, doesn't seem to have come with him to MLB.

slocs: You would get 2 years of Delmon Young, and you wouldnt get him below $3M, you'd be paying him a handsome raise in 2011 from last years $2.6M after his impressive season and will have 4 years of service time.

I'll take 6 years of Dom any day.

And i predict Dom outdoes Young's 121 OPS+ in his 24 year old season - and for the Phillies' sake - his 91 OPS+ in his 23 year old season.

Yohan Flande played in the futures game. I assumed someone considered him a prospect.

Just totally underwhelmed by all of the possible candidates that rumors have the Phillies interested in. Why don't we just wait until every team has what they want and then we can have the remains for $ 750K per!

Jermaine Dye?

Amaro & Co. are acting like bottom feeders. "Let's sign this guy Bass who has been twice released by one of the worst franchises in all of baseball. His high era intrigues me and the frequency of homers allowed is an attention grabber. Oh, and let's talk to the agent for Jeff Francoeur. Never mind that his batting skills are diminishing every year. Cholly, with his great track record of resurrecting hitters (not so much) will surely fix him."

Why should a team awash in money and coming off four consecutive division titles act like it's the KC Royals? Why is it that they have to settle for the 2nd or 3rd tier of lefty relievers?

Amaro is certainly not approaching improving the team in the field and in the bullpen like a front-runner. I'm envious of teams like the Red Sox (forget the Yankees), who seem to do the right thing and use their farm system and their money to continue to build contending teams year after year.

Now, this sounds a little silly coming from the standpoint of the Phillies' success over the past four years, but I fear that the window is closing and the penurious ways of the FO is about to cloud the future.

Does this mean that the Bobby Abreu trade was a bust? Damn, and I was holding out hope!

Penurious seems a particularly inapt adjective for a team with the highest payroll in the National League. How about spendthrift? With the high priced contracts already on the books, their pursuit of bargains at the margin are akin to the guy who spent all his money on a big screen TV and a new Porsche and, now, can't afford to stock the fridge.

As underwhelming as all of the free agent names tied to the Phils are, I'd actually prefer to tie up a roster spot with Sherrill or even, gulp, Reyes, or even Diaz (no Frenchie, though, please), than waste it on another Herndon-esque Rule 5'er, who we know RAJ will be too stubborn to jettison if/when he goes awry.

At least with the FA's, you can predict their level of mediocrity. With the Rule 5er's, you just have to *hope* for said mediocrity (and lock up a roster spot in the process).

Hugh, kinda like the Miami Heat of the NL East, huh?

J.R. King: It probably is a bit harsh to say Flande wasn't a prospect, especially since he was praised to the heavens by posters here last off-season.

Flande put up nice numbers in the FSL in '09, which got people excited, but he was old for the level, has been old for each level and didn't dazzle at Reading last season.

He's got a nice changeup but the rest of his pitches are just average, so his upside is limited. I wouldn't rule out a cup of coffee in The Show someday.

Sanchez is younger, but has even less raw talent than Flande. He didn't even crack BA's list of Top 30 Phillies Prospects.

Clout - Were there really people praising Flande the heavens on BL? Who were those people? I'd sure like to know.

Because he was never more than a touch above filler, the Futures Game notwithstanding.

Flande is a non-prospect, worth cutting bait with.

Sanchez is younger and has more potential, so it wouldn't surprise me to see them bring him back to the system, assuming no one picks him up (which they won't).

Yohan Flande is one of those pitchers who yields really inconsistant results. I saw him a bunch in Reading. One start was really good I remember, the other he didn't see the 2nd inning. Most of the time I saw him go 6 and give up 3-4 runs. I won't miss him.

Sounds like Dennys Reyes is heading to Philly per John Strauss.

Paul Owens, you just made me open up a porn site on my work's network.

Can't wait to see "The Big Sweat" on a 98 degree August day in Philly, after he's given up a 3 run bomb.

Somebody better have a mop to clean up his persperation.

I would have thought Rube would have tried to stay away from guys names Dennis, who don't know how to spell their first name.

I have been screaming to the rooftops about it, but I don't understand why we aren't trying to get Brian Fuentes. These RF options flat out suck. Our best bet now is to try to strengthen a different weaker area. We aren't going to improve on starting pitching, we aren't going to improve on IF, C and we have seen the OF possibilities. Let's put that money to the bullpen. We sign Fuentes and we are looking pretty good, plus he serves as a backup closer. Then we take some gambles on outfielders and if we get into real trouble there during the season make a trade.

If Will S. gets all riled up over racism that isn't really there, I'm wondering how he'll react to dennyb's relatively racially-tinged comment regarding the first names of Reyes and Baez.

Iceman: piss off

scary - how much criticism Rube is getting. He hasn't nade any move yet. And so far he has made right decisions this off season:

1. didn't renew durbin or romero but staying in contact.
2. did offer Werth a contract but didn't go forever. Werth wanted the pay day
3. Has most likely put in an offer for Lee, albeit not 6 or 7 years but something similar to Halladay's deal - ie responsible
4. All signings are minor league add to inventory
5. Seems apparent, he gauged interest in Ibanez trade value a few weeks ago.
6. Going back to Sabathia trade to Milwaukee where Phils were finalists - he has gotten the big arms Lee, Halladay and Oswalt. remember we have H2O intact for 11 and 12 if we exec option for vice-Roy.
7. He keeps it close to the vest.

My gut says Rowand comes back and SF eats salary, we get a loogy and after losing out to the ANGELS for lee, we trade for a starter next season, but I would be willing to bet the Phils are in on Greinke as well. We just haven't heard it yet,

Slocs: I agree that Rowand will be in Philadelphia before the end of the year. I only hope we don't have to give up anything of value for SF to eat a significant portion of his contract.

As for Greinke with 2 years under team control, I'd empty the farm and throw in Rollins to boot. A rotation of Halladay, Grenkie, Oswalt, Hamels and Blanton can withstand two seasons with Valdez playing SS and batting eighth.

Expecting a blathering big day in Florida. Mr. Amaro should continue to push the budget acquiring Aces until he gets a dud. Charlie has a plan to shrink Francouer's swing-hole to the size of a black-eyed pea by New Year's Day.

WTF- Brian Bocock remains on the 40 man roster while Flande and Jesus Sanchez are let go. Makes ZERO sense.

Matt Diaz to the Pirates, so cross him off.

I saw on mlbtraderumors there are teams interested in trading for Ryan Ludwick. Any guess what it would take? Or how much he's owed?

Greinke, Lee, or any any other ace make no sense for this team. The diminishing returns of throwing a #1 starter against the Pirates #4 starter isn't worth the $. It ceases to be a strategic advantage at that point and is simply overkill. We already have the best #1, #2, & #3 starters, and without putting any work into it, I'd say there aren't too many teams with a #4 as good as Blanton. You get better bang for the buck if you spend that money on a bullpen piece (or 2), solid bench help, and RF.

Carson - Maybe Bocock is learning to play RF?

(Actually I looked at the 40-man roster yesterday and came to the same conclusion.)

(And really, why 2 players? Surely we're not going to keep two (2) rule 5 guys on the major league roster all year.)

Who actually praised Flande last year on BL?


~genuinely curious~

In re: Delmon Young for Dom Brown
Hmmm....Brown has his whole career ahead of him and shows more power. Young has a few years of major league experience in the 120 OPS range. I would really hesitate to make that move, though you'd be getting someone who's played MLB versus someone who has only has a cup-o-joe (and not totally successfully yet). I could see that trade defended.

I just don't think I could pull the trigger on it.

I'm very disappointed that the Robb Quinlin signing hasn't gotten its own thread. I mean, he is clearly the missing piece to the puzzle.

BUT
If we could get Delmon for Gillies Aumont and Ramirez (even tossing in a possible prospect like Valle) I'd do that super-fast. Delmon could start and Brown would have to beat our Ibanez.

I wonder if some of the Rowand talking goin on isn't a salary swap of Raul for Fence-face. They need a lefty, we need a righty, both contracts are, um, not great.

NEPP - We'd discuss the Quinlin thing more if the guy learned how to spell his own first name.

NEPP - I did not praise Flande, but, two years ago I said he might bear watching. I watched last year and was less than impressed.

****If we could get Delmon for Gillies Aumont and Ramirez (even tossing in a possible prospect like Valle) I'd do that super-fast. Delmon could start and Brown would have to beat our Ibanez.
****

Why in the world would the Twins do that? While it seems like Young has been around forever now, he's just 24 (with 4+ MLB seasons under his belt now). He also seems to finally be realizing his potential (some guys take longer obviously). Given that he's a good 3 seasons away from his peak years, he could end up as a very very good player. Yeah, he'll never have the plate discipline that turns a very good hitter into a great hitter but he'll probably continue to hit around .290-.300 and his power is finally coming through. THere's a lot of value in that...even if he isn't a good defender in LF and even if he has had some attitude issues (they couldn't be that major if Gardenhire has kept him around...the Twins run a very tight ship).

The job of Amaro at this point is forward thinking. We aren't going to move Howard, Utley, Vic, Rollins, Polanco, Ruiz... which only leaves our corner OF positions not set. Ibanez is fine, not terrific, but very difficult to move. You have a stud prospect that would end the discussion in Brown, if we weren't so LF in our lineup. You have Ben and Gload, each would start on a lot of teams and have the potential to do more for us as well. You have a starting rotatioin that is solid. We know the top 3, and Blanton is an awesome 4 and Kendrik an awesome 5... Those two would be much higher on almost every club. Lidge is under contract and he is working on the bullpen. Maybe he can add a bench guy or two, but he needs to be looking for the next crop and next moves to insure we are competitive in 4 years when pieces of this group will be gone.

I think we should all accept the fact that Raul will be back in LF in 2011 and will probably (hopefully) give us around a .775-.800 OPS. Hopefully, he platoons against tough lefties with Francisco or some other RH bat and it limits the damage. If he's batting 6th, its not a major issue...just as it wasn't in 2010. The problem is that he'll end up batting 5th most of the time (as UC will never do the smart thing which would be moving Chooch up...though he MIGHT bat Jimmy 5th instead).

Ibanez isn't the major concern for me at this point...we know basically what he'll give us. A legitimate RF (not Francouer) is the concern.

I still say Ordonez is the smartest way to go...even if we have to give him a 2 year deal.

Carson -- Maybe Phils keeping Bobock on the 40 man because they are worried about Rollins, Do they have any other better alternatives right now on their roster?

I used to have faith in Jesus.

NEPP: giving Ordonez 2 years (RAJ would probably go 3) would be smart because Brown can take over for Ibanez at some point this year or next year and then having Ordonez under contract for 2012 gives you another year to see what you got in Gillies, etc. 2012's FA OF class isn't much more exciting than this year's.

"I'm envious of teams like the Red Sox (forget the Yankees), who seem to do the right thing and use their farm system and their money to continue to build contending teams year after year. "

You do realize that Amaro emptied the farm system in the last 1.5 years to get Lee, Halladay and Oswalt, don't you?
And that the Phils will contend next year?
And that we are talking about a platoon corner OF and a LH reliever?
And that all moves don't have to happen immediately?

Deep breaths, all, deep breaths.

I wouldn't be against Ordonez for 2 years but the question is what is that value of that over Ben. If they both play full time, maybe 7 home runs and .30 in average... how much is that worth???

NEPP - I never said the Twins would actually take that deal. I mean, who in their right mind would give up major league talent for the likes of Ramirez, Aumont and Gillies?

Well, to compare them quickly...here's their respective numbers for the last 3 years:

Magglio: 122 OPS+, .311 AVG/.376 OBP/.843 OPS, 4.2 WAR
Francisco: 105 OPS+, .263 AVG/.331 OBP/.773 OPS, 2.5 WAR


You're basically looking at 40 points in batting average and Ordonez strikes out far far less than Benny Frank. Both are below average defensively.

Valdez is insurance for Rollins, not Bocock. Hell, I'd rather see Freddy Galvis given time in an emergency than Bocock.

Anyway...it should be noted (if not already) that Robb Quinlan's broth Tom is a former Phillie.

Valdez isn't under contract, Carson.

Speaking of Galvis, I hope to see Venezuelans in the mid-infield at LV this summer. Galvis just needs to slap on 20 pounds of pop.

Magglio is the sort of "professional hitter" we need at the #5 spot...or even #3 if Utley's struggles continue. Get it done RAJ!

GM-Carson: does that mean we had the wrong brother before or now? or is there a 3rd, younger Quinlan who will become a perennial all-star?

NEPP- Phillies own the rights of Valdez.

The major concern with Ordonez is, of course, his age. He turns 37 in January.

{Silly and provocative post to bump up the traffic for Jason: }

Three or four days ago, clout was almost guaranteeing the team would get Diaz and Rhodes. I'm guessing the Diaz thing isn't happening. Any other predictions?

****NEPP- Phillies own the rights of Valdez.

****

We do? I thought he was a minor-league free agent when we signed him...damn.

NEPP: which makes him a prime candidate for a 7 year deal for the Phillies

"The major concern with Ordonez is, of course, his age. He turns 37 in January."

This is the perfect place for him to have at least 2 more formidable offensive years, no doubt if injury-free he will give us 30-100. He's the best option out there now even with his age, and our window of opportunity has only a couple more years to go. Junior needs to lock him up with a front-loaded 2 year deal.

Dennys Reyes, meet Dennys Baez. Dennys Baez, meet Dennys Reyes. We have clearance Clarence, roger Roger, what's our vector, Victor?

NEPP- he was a minor league free agent, but I'm pretty sure due to his service time he's under contract as long as the Phils tender him one.

Has anyone mentioned that we cant really be sure that Magglio is only 37 because he's from Latin America?

NEPP: Be prepared for accusations to fly that you are obviously prejudice against atheletes named "Magglio"...

he doesn't turn 37 till the end of January

Magglio is the best option out there.

On another note, why the hell would Diaz sign with the Bucs?

The roster spots 1 for Reyes or Sherril, the other for a Rule 5 pick. Mags isn't coming here. They won't pay him want he wants.

NEPP you beat me to it. I was busy trying to find my daughter's birth certificate for the community basketball league.

From Sporting News:
"Regardless of whether another team steps forward with a seven-year offer -- SI.com reports the Angels aren't the "mystery team" that is rumored to have offered such a deal, and it is unknown whether the Phillies have made a formal offer -- the Yankees insist they won't do so. "It's not going to affect what we do," a team official told the Daily News."

Any truth that the Pirates are the mystery team now that they have shocked the baseball world and signed Diaz?

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