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Wednesday, November 17, 2010

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Very excited for Dom Brown to mash in the Dominican league so we can all start fantisizing about his 2011 season, instead of worrying about his 2010.

If the Phils bring in a good lefty reliever, that will be a significant area of strength for the team, between that reliever and Bastardo, who will come into his own this season.

Is it "Dominican League" or "Domonican League?"

Even with Uggla, the Braves won't catch the Phillies. It took a absolutely horrid, extended slump simultaneously by the entire offense as well as an abnormal # of injuries for them to even be close this year. Phillies will win the East and are still the odds on favorite to win the pennant unless the Braves sign C___ L__, Werth, AND Crawford. in the next couple months.

From MLBTradeRumors.com:

"USA Today's Bob Nightengale introduced the idea of Justin Upton as a trade candidate on Monday, and the rumors took off yesterday. Diamondbacks GM Kevin Towers told Joel Sherman of the New York Post, "He would be a tough guy to move. But you always seek out the information on what teams will do because you never know if, to get one player, a team will grossly overpay."

Sherman talked to one team executive who says the Marlins have had the most interest in Upton for a while. An exec speculated that Logan Morrison and Ricky Nolasco would get it done, notes Sherman.

We learned yesterday that the Red Sox and Yankees checked in on Upton as part of their due diligence. It's not known if the Rays would like to add a second Upton, but the execs Sherman spoke to consider them an early favorite along with the Marlins."

The Phils could beat the Morrison/Nolasco option, but it would probably have to include Domo + 2 of our best pitching prospects, maybe even more...They don't have any pitchers with the relative service time, youth + ability of a Nolasco to offer.

Would that really be worth it? Cratering the farm system, even for a young and relative cheap player like Upton, doesn't seem like a great idea.

Buying "low" on Upton is pretty intriguing. The price is still high, but you gotta think that before his down 2010, he was basically untouchable.

I don't think the Phillies are really in a position to make this move right now. As much as this is a win-now team, they are most likely going to be serious contenders for a good 3-4 more years, and to do that, they absolutely NEED young cheap pitching to emerge. Giving away your #1 prospect(Brown) along with a pitcher or two could be really devastating to the team's ability to contend in a few years - especially if Brown ends up being very comparable to Justin Upton.

"Beerleaguer will remain in light posting mode until I return from my self-imposed off-season exile next week, at which time I’ll reveal a few product and site announcements."

Love the site, but if the timeframe is anything like the first announcement, "next week" should be interpreted as "about the time spring training begins."

"Phillies were reportedly interested in right-hander Hiroki Kuroda..."

Just like they have been "interested" in so many FAs in the past. (See Lowell, Mike.)

Dukes: You are racist.

No, he's a Bloggist.

"I am not O'Brien!!!"

Everyones a little bit racist sometimes, Doesn't mean we go around committing hate crimess.

Avenue Q is the funniest play of all time I urge everyone to see it if you haven't.

Nice banner they unfurled at CBP to commemorate the Cy Young. A perfect game, no hitter in the playoffs, 21 wins and another playoff win with a pulled groin for 6 innings later and I would say he was a decent acquisition. It was the bats that let us down.

Even if Domonic Brown ends up being very comparable to Justin Upton, which is an unknown, Upton's availability means the Phillies could conceivably trade for someone who:

1. Is younger than Brown.
2. Has a track record of major league success offensively.
3. Has strong defensive metrics (according to b-ref).
4. Is right handed.
5. Is under control on a reasonable contract until 2015.

I hate losing prospects as much as the next person but in this instance, the Phillies should aggressively pursue Upton and should be prepared to pay a high price for a player with Upton's current skill-set and incredible upside.

I have a hard time believing that Upton is available in any realistic sense.

Jbird: I'd usually agree with you but Joel Sherman claims he is:

http://twitter.com/#!/Joelsherman1/status/4925491836358656

I love Upton as much as anyone, and would virtually clear out the farm system to get him, but I will say this: it worries me somewhat that his brother had a similar skillset and has regressed offensively, and they both have had consistent shoulder injury problems, and that the team that knows him best seems willing to deal him despite him being 23 and signed to an affordable long-term deal. There's something off about that.

I have no idea if career paths are genetically linked, and it does seem overly prejudicial to consider his brother's career as predictive of his, but in this case, I think it's something I would want to consider.

The Phils are "interested" in a lot of people at this time of the year. But usually nothing comes of it.

If they wanted Francouer, they probably could have had him by now. Not the best fit, but a better one than someone who is 35 or older.

This goes back to my post last night. RAJ had better step it up, or all of the players he's "interested" in will be gone. Joaquin Benoit was another guy they may have targeted but he just signed with Detroit for 3 years, 16.5 million. The market will be too high for the Phils once again.

Another Minor League Deal?? Phils sign lefty reliever Dan Meyer. Who??? Our GM is once again hard at work. Please, I need oxygen.

DPatrone: A) you're crazy if you think any middle reliever or even setup man is worth signing for 3 years and 16.5 million like Benoit just got. Hats off to Rube for laying off that one.

B)You need to seriously calm down. Patience is a virtue. Amaro's biggest flaw the last couple of years was acting way too rashly and quickly (overpaying Ibanez, dealing Lee before getting better offers, etc.). Relax.

haha Dpatrone, you crack me up.

Noah: If Brown ends up comparable to Upton, is it really worth giving up pitching prospects just our RF will be right handed?

I understand the pitching prospects would be the insurance to the "IF he is comparable", but just hyptothetically saying, how much valuable is Upton just because he'll be RHB if they end up being comparable players.

jason: Hypothetically? Not much value at all in Upton being RH as opposed to Brown being LH, especially because in 3-4 years we have no idea if our lineup will be lefty-heavy or righty-heavy anyway.

But of course, your first point is the answer. Right now Upton and Brown aren't comparable at all. Which is why the extra prospects would be needed.

I think the other aspect of the discussion, defense, is an equally pertinent consideration. Dom Brown (in the very limited view I had of him last year) did not look like the all-world defender he is likely to become, yet. It may take him a Spring, it may take him 2 years.

But it's pretty likely that at the beginning of next year, Upton will be superior offensively and defensively and there's the nagging concern that Brown may never be the player that Upton is.

Phils signed 29 year old lefty reliever Dan Meyer to a minor league deal. He was really good in 2009 with the Marlins (3.09 ERA, 1.17 WHIP, in 71 games/58.1 IP), but has been pretty bad the other seasons in the bigs with the Fish and A's. He's a former 1st round pick of the Braves. I like this signing, could help the pen on the cheap. Bad part is, lefties have hit better against him than righties, and they've both walloped him.

Jack~ I'm not saying the Phils should have gotten Benoit. But he hasn't even re-sign Durbin, and I have a problem with that. Durbin should be easy to do. But all he can say is "no comment". He's being penny-wise, but dollar-follish (Contreras).

Why should the Phillies resign Durbin? Aren't there are 5 or 6 bullpen prospects who could conceivably contribute what Durbin did in 2009 and 2010?

Let them have it in the spring and pick the best one.

Spending premium dollars on a bullpen with the wild variance numbers most relievers produce is wasteful.

DPatrone: Contreras was better than Durbin this year. Why should Durbin have been the priority?

Also, you don't seem to understand that middle relievers are pretty fungible. Letting Durbin go really isn't that big of a deal.

Last year, bullpen whipping boy David Herndon had a year that was almost indistinguishable from Durbin's 2009.

Jack~ You may be right on Durbin, but he's better than Dan Meyer.

DPatrone: Yeah, that's fine, but do you think Dan Meyer is replacing Durbin? Meyer was signed on a minor-league deal. He's one of a bunch of low-risk guys that teams bring in on really cheap deals and throw at the wall, and if a couple of them stick and have great ST and make the team, all the better. If not, no real loss. Every team does this.

Meyer was also very good in 2009 for the Marlins. Totally worth taking a no-risk move on. What's the harm?

I hear Benoit's a racist, so I'm glad he's not coming to Philly.

Upton is basically on a 5yr/$50yr deal. (only paid $500k last year).

Im actually thinking that Dom Brown straight up right now is a reasonable trade.

Brown is under team control for an extra year than Upton and even if Brown puts up Upton numbers his first few years, he still will be cheaper than $50M over that course. He would have to put up Ryan Howard numbers to make $50M in 6 years of arbritration.

Noah - "5 or 6 bullpen prospects who could conceivably contribute what Durbin did in 2009 and 2010?"

No. Every offseason we go through this ridiculous conversation about how these almost mythical 'replacement level' relievers could easily replace an established MLB reliever who has been above average. Every now and then you catch lightning in a bottle for 40-50 IP but more often that not you get a guy who gets pretty hard.

There are maybe 2-3 guys (DeFratus, Schwimer, Mathieson) who will even merit a serious look in spring training at making the Opening Day roster.

Durbin is simply a better pitcher than Herndon. Much higher K/9 and K/BB rate and simply misses alot more bats. Does that mean the Phils should bring him back if he costs $2.5-3M a year and wants a multi-year deal? Probably not.

I don't mind the Dan Meyer signing at all. He's another inventory guy you stock away at AAA on a minor league deal.

Dom Brown will never be an 'elite defender.' At best, he gets a bit more experience in RF and is able to take better advantage of his great speed. He has a strong arm so he just needs to work on his ability to judge balls.

My bet is that he ends up as an average defender with a great arm who teams quickly learn not to run on.

DPatrone: The FA season just started. Beerleaguers tend to succumb to the fallacy of judging signings for what they aren't, instead of for what they are (i.e., "Dan Meyer? Who's gonna play right field?"). But all of these inconsequential value village signings do not make it any less likely that we will make consequential moves.

Also, what is the urgency to resign Chad Durbin? On balance, he has been a decent middle inning reliever for us but, as his playoff performance & 2009 season show, he is not exactly a pillar of consistency. If we resign him, fine. But I would hardly rate it a high priority when there are plenty of other FA relievers just like him.

When Contreras was resigned, Durbin was gone. You don't need to be even more than a casual fan to realize that.

If the Phils do sign another notable FA reliever in the bullpen, it will be for an experienced lefty reliever.

Internal depth for LHP relievers even with the Meyer signing are incredibly slim right now (Bastardo, Meyer, Zagurski).

I have to say, there's a surprising amount of smoke out there about the Justin Upton trade.

The fact that the team that knows him best is willing to deal him raises pretty big red flags for me. That said, he's a fantastically talented player, signed to a very reasonable deal.

I highly doubt the Phils even get involved, but I'm fascinated to see how this ends up regardless.

As a huge contreras fan, even I think that deal might have been premature. No way do I want to see a Durbin signing anytime soon unless its clearly a team friendly deal. Look at these RHP available this year - prolly the deepest position this year:

Grant Balfour
Jesse Crain
Chad Durbin
Jason Frasor
Matt Guerrir
Aaron Heilman
JJ Putz
Jon Rauch
Takashi Saito
Dan Wheeler

You've got some others coming off lesser year, but still good options:

Miguel Bastita
Manny Corpas
Guerillmo Mota
Scot Shields
Tyler Walker

Like the Dan Meyer signing. He was solid enough for a minor league deal. No real negatives here.

What are the Marlins doing this offseason? First, they give away everything they got for Cabrera for middle relievers. Then they give away Uggla for another middle reliever and a utility player. Now they sign Buck to 3 years? Terrible deals, especially when you consider they could be walking into this season with a middle of the order of Ramirez, Cabrera, Stanton and Uggla. We should be thankful.

Jack~ Meyer on strictly a Minor League deal is ok. But Rube is not taking care of the needs of the big club as yet, save Contreras. All of these Minor League signings are for roster-stocking purposes I know, and there's no harm in that at all. But these guys are gonna be around 6 weeks from now. Sign them then.

Also on Scott Downs. Do you mean to tell me surrendering a draft pick would preclude the Phils from signing him? Give me a break. Your Major League club has holes to fill. Fill them and go from there. Then worry about the Minor signings. He's looking for a Greg Dobbs-type LH bat? Why? Just call Dobbs. Besides, what about Gload? Don't tell me Gload is gonna be part of the RF platoon.

He's mum on Werth and Lee, and you'd expect him to be. But if either one of those guys sign reasonable contracts with other clubs because they can't get whatever their asking prices are, we'd all be asking "why couldn't the Phils do that"? Especially for Werth.

Like I say, sometimes RAJ is too smug for his own good.

I'm not the least bit sorry to see Durbin go. He was awful in the second half, and watching his two playoff appearances made my teeth hurt. Can barely remember him coming in and not giving up a run in the second half of last season.

Would I bring him back? Yeah, if he'd pitch for the minimum. But it's more likely he's going somewhere else on a minor league contract. He did nothing last season to prove he is more than a fringe major leaguer.

Seems like a really good guy. I hope he saved his money over the last few seasons.

BAP~ You may be right on Durbin, and there are many out there like him. But we haven't signed anyone yet. It should not be hard to do.

Most players are not gonna take less money to sign anywhere. I fear Rube is hoping that's what will happen. I just hope we are not left scratching or heads.

I certainly share the general level of excitement about Domonic Brown's potential. But my excitement is tempered when I start looking at the performance of other recent top-10 "can't miss" everyday prospects like Cameron Maybin, Alex Gordon, Andy Marte, Matt Wieters, Jeremy Hermida, Joel Guzman, Brandon Wood, and Casey Kotchman.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Domonic Brown will have a fine major league career. But he might not. He might turn out to be a complete mediocrity like Casey Kotchman or Jeremy Hermida, or even a complete bust like Brandon Wood or Andy Marte. If I could trade the Domonic Brown lottery ticket for a right-handed outfielder who is actually a week younger, has already had 2 very good seasons at the major league level, and is signed to a team-friendly contract through 2015, I would make that trade without even a millisecond of hesitation.

DPatrone - Now you're clearly losing perspective. A team does not give up its first round pick for a situational lefty, even the great Scott Downs.

This is the deepest draft in possibly a decade. A pick at the back of the first round, and whatever they get from Werth leaving, could stock the team in top notch prospects. Three picks in the top fifty or so could be the shortstop that replaces JRoll and a closer and a righty power bat outfielder. It's not a stretch in a draft like this one.

Of course, if you're signing a Lee or some other top performer you do it. But not for Scott Downs.

"But we haven't signed anyone yet. It should not be hard to do."

Actually, we just signed Contreras. How many significant FAs have the Yankees, RedSox, and Angels signed so far?

We do have bullpen holes to fill, but what is the advantage of filling those holes within the first week of free agency? That approach has only caused Amaro to overpay in the past. It's not like the other 29 GMs are making a massive run on Chad Durbin caliber relievers. There will still be plenty such guys available a month or two from now, at which time we will have a much better idea of what their market value is going to be this off-season.

If Chad Durbin were such a prized catch, some other team would have already signed him.

Isn't Meyer a South Jersey guy?

If Durbin wants to start (and almost certainly due to the money difference), then he likely will have a tougher time in the FA market.

He certainly has value as a reliever but I can't imagine a team is willing to sign him to a say a 2-yr deal as reliever unless he takes slightly less than he made last year ($2.1M).

If Durbin was willing to take a 1-yr deal at say $1.5-2M, I am sure he would be signed pretty quickly given the lack of quality middle relievers.

Durbin is your classic FA reliever who is better than say the a contract near veteran league minimum ($775k or so) but not a guy you want to give a multi-year deal and/or a raise either. Puts him solidly in the 1 yr/$1.5-2M range and that is where I bet he ends up.

Serious question: Didn't anyone actually watch Durbin pitch this season? Down the stretch he was nearly as awful as Baez and in the playoffs he was beyond awful.

This guy is spent. Anything more than a trial for league minimum would be pitching money in the toilet. There are guys all over the minors who can be that good or better. Even Herndon is likely to be as good as Durbin going forward.

If Rube signs Durbin, I will be astonished. But apparently, I will be the only astonished one. I'd be more inclined to offer Durbin a minor league deal, and if he gets more than that I'll also be a little surprised. But only a little.

ak: you're a one man Durbin is awful wrecking machine lately. I don't remember Durbin being as awful as you report, but I would be ok with them moving on from him, or giving him a minor league deal if he can't get more than that somewhere else.

Durbin, Dobbs and Romero were the only three players that had worn out their welcome from 2008, and were at this point on the roster basically based on 3/4 of a season of success. Glad to see them go and time to turn the page. My last memory of Durbin will be him getting smacked around in the playoffs and being allowed to stay in way too long.

By the way this move smacks of bias against white middle relievers.

Upton is not your usual first round draft pick. He was number one overall in 2005, and, if I am not mistaken, he was considered comparable to ARod and Junior at the same stage of development.

Upton's first three season in the majors seemed to justify the high regard for him. His 2010 was off a little, but he is still very young. His ceiling is still that of a HOFer.

Upton is worth a lot more than Domonic. I would give up a lot more than Brown for Upton, but I would not empty the farm.

If we can't get a top talent, I would prefer to keep Brown and our other top prospects, pick up three more very good prospects in next year's deep draft and begin making the transition to a more youthful team. Out of Brown, Cosart, Colvin, May, Singleton, Biddle and Valle, we could get as many as three or four new stars over the next three or four years.

In the meantime, I think it's imperative that we extend Hamels, Oswalt and Rollins. If Oswalt is interested, I'd like to see the Phils extend him through 2014.

I don't think that the Phils should go to extremes to become more right-handed. As it now stands with Brown in the lineup, the Phils would have four LH bats, two SH bats and two RH bats. Rollins and Victorino can be used to separate the LH power bats in the lineup.

I'd make a push for one guy like Ordonez, Ludwick or Hairston, pick up a lefty reliever, and then go to war with what we have. Our starting pitching should get us another division flag. 2011 will give us a better idea how much our offense has slipped and how good Brown is going to be. I'm not worried about Howard, but, if Rollins and Utley are not able to perform at a high level, we'll have to pick up another big bat this time next year.

mlb.COM....

Padres manager Bud Black was named the National League Manager of the Year on Wednesday by the Baseball Writers' Association of America. He finished one point ahead of Cincinnati's Dusty Baker in the voting.

I see no reason to rush into an extension for Oswalt.

Figured it would be Black, but we all know the job Cholly did with this squad through injuries that would have doomed most clubs was tremendous. Plus we single handedly knocked Black's team out of contention when we swept them on the Coast. Little did we know we shot ourselves in the foot.

I see no reason to rush into an extension for Oswalt or Rollins.

Why all of the Durbin hate on here? He was an above average reliever here and his ERA after the ASB was 4.32. Contreras wasn't that much better at 3.90.

Herndon was 4.91 and wore down just as badly as Durbin. Baez even worse with at 7.63 in limited duty (15 1/3 IP).

Frankly I still don't understand the love that Herndon gets on here from some. He is a mop-up guy that could just as easily spend most of the year at Lehigh next year. His value is that he is cheap and can give the Phils more than a single inning.

Haven't seen this mentioned on here, but Stark in his column today claims the Phils have laid "extensive groundwork" on a deal for Carlos Quentin.

That makes a lot of sense, presuming the cost (in terms of a trade) is relatively low.

BB - Not trying to be a Durbin wrecking crew. But it seems a lot of people don't remember how mediocre and worse he was the second half. Clearly, Contreras wore down a bit toward the end of the season, then picked it up again at the end and playoffs. And Herndon had more dribblers squeak threw for hits or travel 15 feet for hits than almost any pitcher I've ever seen. Also, he clearly needs some conditioning in the offseason, as his velocity seemed to elude him after ST.

But Durbin is a guy who has been around the block now as a reliever, and should have been able to maintain at least a little. And with an ERA in the second half that was over four, and being godawful in the playoffs, he needs to be evaluated a little more realistically. And the most disturbing thing about him is that he's a guy who relies on movement and his pitch movement seemed to disappear, unless the pitch was out of the strike zone and taken for a ball. A disturbing development.

I think you mean a "disdurbin' development"

Quentin would be an interesting pickup...what's his contract situation?

How does Cox finish ahead of Manuel or let alone in the top 4? If anything his team folded like a cheap suit down the stretch with lousy defense and spotty offense, to say the least. Sentimental bullsh*t pick, I'm sure he won the award about 10 times during their big 2 decade run (that resulted in one ring). And Brad Mills got a vote? From who, Ed Wade?

Checked it myself...Quentin is a free agent after 2012.

Go for it Rube!

NEPP: Arb eligible. He made 3.2 last year and had a pretty bad year this year, so something in the 5 mill range would be in order.

You would have to do some serious homework on him--he's had injury and contact issues that have led him to basically be replacement-level since his breakout 2008 season. That said, he's got talent and underlying skills (draws walks and hits for power) that make him much more intriguing than guys like Jeff Francoeur.

It's one thing to argue about player awards, because at least we have some way (or ways) of measuring them against each other.

But Manager of the Year? Who gives a crap?

Quentin's numbers this year werent all that bad. Contact is a little low but his overall OPS was solid.

He had a 117 OPS+

Who the hell fills a major league pen in this day and age by "signing major league first and then signing minor leaguers"?
Do you think this is a video game? Every season minor league guys who are "on the verge", "have been there" or "has-beens" get minor league looks, go to spring training and then take spots on the major league staff...you cannot afford to have a 20 million dollar bullpen.

Noah: "Aren't there are 5 or 6 bullpen prospects who could conceivably contribute what Durbin did in 2009 and 2010?"

No, actually.

NEPP: True, but a 117 OPS+ with bad defense (according to UZR, don't know what other metrics/reports say) from a corner OF in 130 games isn't all THAT valuable. It's good, not great. It depends on the price in terms of a trade, obviously.

But yeah, if you think the contact can improve somewhat and he can hit .265/.360/.510, then that's worth getting, for sure.

Like I said, you'd have to do some homework on him. FWIW, he was 9th in OPS among 21 qualifying RF. Dead last? Jeff Francoeur.

CM's consolation prize (from the Zo Zone):


Ah, but fear not: The Rotary Club of Pittsburgh has announced Manuel the winner of its 4th Annual Chuck Tanner Major League Baseball Manager of the Year Award. Manuel receives his award Saturday in Pittsburgh.

I would think the price would be fairly low. Still, he'd be a good bat to share RF this year and take over LF next year. Defensively, Brown will be an adventure too. I was thinking of him as a guy that could platoon with both corner OFs to get 500 ABs. If the price is right...you gotta pull that trigger.

Jack: I saw that, but don't know what the fit would be tradewise. The Sox had offered Quentin for Rasmus so he's definitely available.

The Upside with Quentin: He'd hit 35-40 HRs in CBP.

The Downside: Terrible OB, a below-average glove and an opposite split. In fact, his career #s vs. LHP are unimpressive: .212 BA, .773 OPS. Good arm, though.

***Terrible OB****

He's probably good for around a .350 OBP. Its not great but not terrible either. Probably better than what Dom or Raul will give us this year.

Besides, if he DOES hit 35-40 HRs in CBP like you suggest, he might be closer to that .394 OBP he had in 2008.

Why's it always gotta be Bud Black? Why not Bud Chinese or Bud Latino?

derek: "Out of Brown, Cosart, Colvin, May, Singleton, Biddle and Valle, we could get as many as three or four new stars over the next three or four years."

If that happens it will be one of the rarest events in the history of baseball.

Clout: His OBP isn't the cause of his problem--it's an effect. His walk rate is actually quite good (and he appears to get hit a lot, which helps his OBP, much like Utley).

The issue is his BA/contact. In 2008, when he had a BA of .288, he had an OBP of .394. The issue is that since then, he's had BA's of .236 and .243, though some of 2009 can be written off to a horrendously unlucky .221 BABIP.

I agree he might not be a great fit--he's a bad defender, has injury issues, and frankly I'm not convinced at all the 2008 contact rate wasn't a complete fluke. He simply hasn't hit for an acceptable average any other year in his career. But, if the Phils did their homework on him and thought they could make something work, he at least has some real upside, as opposed to some of the guys being discussed.

****derek: "Out of Brown, Cosart, Colvin, May, Singleton, Biddle and Valle, we could get as many as three or four new stars over the next three or four years."

*****

We'll be lucky if we get 3 or 4 guys that ever play at the MLB level from that bunch. Prospects making it in baseball is a rare thing...prospects realizing their upside is even rarer.

NEPP: Yeah, I'm probably being too harsh on him, although it's worth mentioning that his OB the past 2 years has been .323 and .342.

Jack: Agree 100% with your assessment. Plus Manuel has experience working with guys like that. And Quentin is entering his age 28 season and could be hitting a career year.

Problem is, I think it would take quite a package to get.

****Yeah, I'm probably being too harsh on him, although it's worth mentioning that his OB the past 2 years has been .323 and .342.
****

The price would have to be right...ie, low. If they want a top prospect for him, they can go shop someplace else.

Clout: Describe "quite a package" (yikes, that sounds bad).

I'm guessing I think it would take far less than you do.

NEPP: I can't imagine the price would be low. Makes no sense for the Sox.

Probably right on the price...though maybe Beinfest can be their GM for a day and we can give them peanuts.

"But Manager of the Year? Who gives a crap?"

Remember, it is the off season. Any baseball topic is fair game and helps pass the time.

maybe we can get Gio Gonzalez back and move him to Chicago, since the Sox like involving him in trades.

To my mind, the White Sox still owe us a little giveback for when they pulled a fast one on us with the Garcia trade.

I want to know how LaRussa got jilted in this year's voting. How could the perrenial baseball mind be overlooked?? Don't the votes realize he is the only manager to use detailed calculations to size up opposing teams? (before being thumped by them)?

Quentin obviously has a big upside. It's worth noting that also posted huge numbers throughout his minor league career (a .956 OPS in 1377 ABs). But I certainly wouldn't give up any of our top prospects for a guy who has hit .240 or lower in each of the last 2 seasons.

Quentin's also a Stanford guy. Might as well add another one to the group (Amaro, Bruntlett, Mayberry, Michael Taylor). Have to imagine the price would be very high but you can't really predict anything that Kenny Williams might do.

BAP: As I recall, Quentin was a Top 10 prospect on BA's Top 100 list. I can see him having a career season within 2 years.

NEPP: FWIW, more than a few folks think the Marlins made a good deal on Uggla. Keep in mind they lose him at the end of the year if they keep him. Infante is good enough to be a Type B, which yields a sandwich pick. So they get a LH RP who throws mid-90s and has some upside plus a guy who fills in for Uggla and then yield s draft pick.

Here's one view: http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2010/11/breaking-down-uggla-for-infante-and-dunn/

Clout: Quentin most likely already had his career season, in 2008. He hit .288/.394/.571 with 36 HRs in only 130 games.

But yeah, I could easily see him having a .270/.360/.530 season with 30-35 HRs.

Clout: You never answered my question from before. Who do you like better, Antonio Bastardo or Mike Dunn?

Jack: The Sox are under no pressure at all to move Quentin. They said they'd do it for Rasmus. They might do it for Brown. That would be quite a package to me since he's the team's best prospect by far.

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