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Monday, November 01, 2010


A big loss IMO. Would love to know what each side thought he was worth.

Slightly more composed repost -- Good to have you back, bay_area_phan! Be well and stay well.

They say that the 1st base coach is the lowest paid coach, but Lopes seemed to be Werth a significant raise. Maybe Rickey Henderson's available.
BTW, he was out at first on Black Friday.

He will be missed.

how different could the dollars be? i think a short sighted move by phils fo

I had heard that Lopes found Shane to be pretty exaperating and frustrating, so if that's true, maybe he felt he needed more for his troubles. I think he'll be missed, but hopefully there won't be too much of a dropoff. I guess we've lost all of our coaches from 2008 except for Dubee?

"I had heard that Lopes found Shane to be pretty exaperating and frustrating"

Link, please.

Sit down, Pat!

Not happy to see this at all. Players play the game but I always thought Lopes was one of the Phils' edges. Curious to know the amounts, hope they aren't being penny wise and pound foolish.

Link? Family. My brother works for ESPN. He talks to their baseball writer often. That's my "link."


really glad to see you again on BL, your comments have been missed. Hope you're feeling better.

6th inning, quite a pitcher's duel going on. Lee's pitching very well, but Lincecum seems sharper and having an easier time with the batters.

Cruz with some instant redemption.

I agree, Bob. This series may not get out of Texas.

Brilliant move not bunting.


Renteria might've just ended it there.

WTH is with this giants team. These guys are just getting ridic clutch hitting the whole postseason to go along with their great pitching. unbelievable. it seemed like renteria's ball carried forever, i didnt think it was a HR off the bat

This thing could be over.

I just missed all the excitement while reading to my kids. Thought the cheering was the fans in Texas. Darn.

cut: Don't worry about it. How could you have known?

3-run homer for Renteria. This game, and series, is over.

Was it a 3-run HR?

Well, I thought the Giants didn't stand a chance in this series. They've dispatched of the Rangers rather easily. They beat Cliff Lee twice, something the Yankees, Rockies, Dodgers and Rays (all apparently more powerful offenses) failed woefully at doing in the past two postseasons.

Edgar Renteria just won himself NLCS MVP probably.

That was my fault Texas fans. After following on Twitter decided I was missing a pitchers duel. And cliff lee melts down.

Come playoff time, it isn't who the best team is. You figure, more or less, the best eight make it there. At that point, it comes down to who gets hot at the right time, and who makes the fewest mistakes. This year, the Giants had that honor. It's really that simple.

Unreal. These guys are just in another zone making it happen. Lee is sharp. Lincecum is just a bit sharpeer.

Two, two strike singles; a picture perfect sacrifice bunt by a guy who bunts about as often as Lincecum ges a crewcut. Lee almost ot of the inning then with two down Renteria parks one.

Rationally, I've got to give them all the credit in the world; the Giants are just getting it done somehow, some way. But for some reason, having seen them beat the Phils the same way, this series is incredibly frustrating to watch. Maybe it's just me.

Now that Cliff Lee is a bona fide clutch time playoff choker, I'd imagine the Yankees will look elsewhere with their 10 year, 400 gazillion dollar contract.

Game=Not Quite Over

I don't mind the Giants winning as much as I mind that they took down Lee twice. On the plus side, at least crazy Phils fans can't say we shoulda kept Lee over Halladay since he's clearly superior (I'm pretty sure somebody somewhere would have said that).

Oo, nice HR from Cruz. Let's go Rangers! Even if you're forestalling the inevitable.

So is Cliff Lee no longer the greatest post-season pitcher in the history of the game? I just want to make sure before I laugh.

Very true words, Scott. It's a good way to look at it, too. The Giants are hardly undeserving. They were in 1st place in the West - won 93 games, was it? They had the best pitching stats. Added some bats throughout the season, and they did get hot at the right time.

Unfortunately, that tater means that Freak won't get a CG. That means that Buck and McCarver will get one final chance to verbally fellate Brian Wilson...

I love how the fans yell "Texas!" "Rangers!"

Tim Lincecum looks like he's ready to kill someone.

Bob, it's not just you. I find the Giants irritating every time they do something good, and I'm quite sure that feeling is attributable to jealousy that they beat us.

At least we'll be able to say that we lost to the eventual WS champion team - Maybe that counts for something. And we didn't seem to play well - esp. defensively, which is a killer - but we also faced a hot team with pitching & hitting that outperformed ours.

McCarver suggesting that they should have pitched around a stiff like Renteria is just result oriented thinking.

If I see that miserable little troll Cody Ross again doing that miserable little dance before the end of this miserable little season, I'll be . . . miserable.

Hats off to the Giants. From September through October, they played the best baseball of anyone.

AFish: Rowand is even more of a stiff than Renteria. It would've been a reasonable decision to walk Renteria.

AFish: Renteria's OPS against lefties was .794 this season. Rowand's was .682.

Probably should've walked Renteria.

Glad to see a little shared frustration here. Misery loves company. I think Scott's summary is very apt. The only positive I take away is it puts the Phils' loss in perspective. I'm really not sure anyone was going to beat the Giants this year.

Walking Renteria wasn't necessary. Not throwing him a meatball down the chute would have been a better strategy. Lee didn't get beat because Renteria is slightly better than Roward. Lee got beat because he threw a poorly located fastball, and Renteria hammered it.

And what's really nauseating is Pat "KKKKKKKKKKK" Burrell is about to get his 2nd ring in 3 !@#$ years. ARRRRRRRGGGGHH

burrell 11 ks in 13 at bats. makes me feel good

Bob, all the credit to the Giants. They've played good baseball, smart baseball, fundamentally sound baseball. And they pitched well. That usually generates good results.

But we did outscore them in the NLCS. The Giants weren't, and aren't unbeatable. They've just won, and congratulations to them.

It's not about being the "best" team. It's about winning the World Series, and the Giants have done that. That's all that matters. The "Best" team is a subjective descriptor. The WS winner is as objective as it comes.

Did Josh Hamilton just say "Jesus Christ" in discust? The fundy's are not going to like that.

Pat Burrell has 1 hit in 34 career WS plate appearances. That's pathetic.

Thanks, Slocs, looks like I got them all.

i cannot believe the giants win the world series. And Werth will be gone in 5 days wah

Congratulations San Francisco.

You made it look easy.

Who cares what Pat hit in the Series? He got a ring. I bet that's all he cares about (or should).

Seriously, congrats to him, Rowand and all the Giants. They played great baseball.

This isn't saying much, but at least the Phillies played better against the Giants than the Rangers did.

Jack, he does have a ring and that's awesome.

But 1 hit in 34 WS PAs is really terrible. He's lucky he had guys around him who actually produced in those World Series.

Cody Ross: "We don't have any superstars."

Tim Lincecum...

weak celebration. misfits win the world series. I cannot believe you got cody ross, pat burrell, edgar renteria, aubrey huff? Ridiculous. Now Lee to the Yanks and Werth to the Sox.

The Phillies post WS celebration was WAY better. :)

The Giants made not have been there in the first place if it wasn't for Burrell, so his performance can be forgiven, especially since they won it all.

Thought that the Giants' pitching was maybe a little overrated this postseason given the battered Braves and and anemic Phils Liberia but shutting down the Rangers has been impressive. Got just enough hitting this postseason generally and pitching took over the rest of the way.

One of the weaker WS victors of the last 25-30 years but my friends in SF don't care. Congrat to the Giants. Let the offseason rumors get underwat.

I don't get how anyone can watch these celebrations and not smile. These guys, for all the crap people give them about being overpaid jerks, clearly care about the game and love to win.

I don't care what team wins. It's fun to watch if you're a baseball fan.

Big Time Timmy Jim now has his nickname. congrats

The Giants beat the Phils, so this is not really surprising.

I like Buster Posey. I hope he goes on to have an awesome career. He seems like a really smart baseball player and I wouldn't be surprised if he wins a couple MVPs in the future.

Lee was good tonight but Mitchie was better. Still take vintage Schilling though if there was one game your team neededin win in the postseason.

Congrats to the Giants. They played to win, and did.

so can we talk about right field now? RH bats please.

Can't believe Burrell won another World Series. Weird to see him celebrating with the Giants, who by the way were the least excited I've ever seen a team in that situation - starting with weirdo Brian Wilson. Also interesting that the Phillies played the Giants the toughest by far - dating back to the playoff push.

celebrating on the visitors field probably takes some wind out of the sails. we were lucky enough to end it at home and that makes a huge difference.

Will repost the numbers tomorrow but I really do wonder how much the Phils will miss Lopes next year. His numbers with the Phils for % SB were so strong but his overall results as a 1st base coach in terms of % SB vs. League average was actually less than average during 12 years. Emailed a friend who is a diehard Nats' fan (oxymoron). He said he was a terrible 1st base coach who the Nats ran out of town after only 1 year in '06. Nats ran alot and with pretty mixed results. Phils also had well-above average success in terms of % SB in 05-06 with some of the same cast. Previous guy didn't get any credit.

Lopes was a good coach here and I do think he deserves the credit he got especially with Vic. Don't know if another coach would have gotten the same result. For all of his accolades though, it impacted only about 15-20 outs which is 0.1 of outs a team makes during the year. Yeah it matters a bit and might add a win along the way but not a big deal if Lopes isn't back. Likely manning 1st base bag for another team next year.

Brian Wilson is the only guy I don't like on the Giants. His act gre tiresome and he is just a horse's ass during post game interviews.

Fatalotti, I agree on Buster Posey. It is very easy for me NOT to like opposing players, especially when they beat my team like the Giants did. But Buster Posey hasn't bothered me at all during this entire run. He's 22 or 23 year old kid that acts like a 40 year old.

Lopes has been a 1st base coach for 16 years now (92-94 O's, 95-99, 03-05 Padres, 06 Nats, and 07-10 Phils.). How many coaches have coached more than 16 years in MLB as a 1st base coach? Imagine its a real short list.

The Giants - who had one of the worst postseason lineups I can remember (on paper) - won games started by the following pitchers to get to tonight:

Derek Lowe (2)
Tim Hudson
Roy Halladay
Cole Hamels
Joe Blanton
Roy Oswalt
Cliff Lee (2)
Tommy Hunter
CJ Wilson

MLB Network named Halladay's no-hitter in the NLDS as the top 2010 postseason moment.

I can not agree with you.maybe there are a lot of good way we can do.

I totally agree.

In the name of God, That is it.God bless you all, and God bless America !

Why should it bother me if 'Pat Burrell wins' another ring?

It's not like he left on his own accord, unlike Schilling or Rolen, and as noted, he will be more famous for the only 1 hit in 2 series deal than actually contributing.

Congratulations to San Francisco on their first baseball championship. Those folks deserve it.

The Giants, though, I'm not quite as ready to gush over. Sorry, and it has nothing to do with them beating the Phillies: they're just not a very likable team, despite their underdog/discarded tag. Most of them, like Renteria, Huff, Posey, Ross seem like good guys. But the enormous chips on the shoulders of some of their other key players like Sanchez, Lincecum, Wilson, and um, Burrell, sell them plenty short of a warm and fuzzy team the rest of the world can get behind.

They were the one post-season contender that scared me all along, though, even when they were stuck for so many weeks behind the Padres, and now we've seen exactly why.

I can't believe a team of aging veterans, journeymen, bench players and a couple of rookies won the world series.

the 93 Phillies had personality, intensity, and charm, but these guys bring zilch to the table. Congrats to SF but eesh what team.

How did we frikking loose to these guys?!?!?!? AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGH

Edgar Renteria MVP in what world?

"I can't believe a team of aging veterans, journeymen, bench players and a couple of rookies won the world series."

yeah but that's not really what that team was. it was a built around a stellar rotation headed by a multiple cy-young winner. the only rookie there was bumgarner.

i'm just relieved cody ross didnt win mvp. i wouldnt have been surprised if he did even though he didnt deserve it...good for renteria, what a way to end his career.

i'm happy for burrell. he was my favorite phillie and he didn't leave town. we let him go, he didnt make it with the rays and scraped his way back to the big leagues and won another world series. that's awesome.

how far apart could the Phillies and Lopes been considering what coaches are paid? $30,000 apart? $50,000? seems penny-wise and pound foolish.

Ditto for the positive comments on Posey. He played and handled himself well throughout the post season and will likely be a force for the Giants for years to come. Don't know about winning a couple of MVPs (small sample size and all that, don't want to get too carried away with one high profile exposure), but don't know that he might not either.

BTW, if you're around, curious about what makes some (rsb & a couple of others) not like Tim Lincecum? There was a moment in the Phils series where he did the "You stay there!" thing to Rollins, but I took that as more of a "Whew, man, lucky to climb out of that hole!" reaction than a cocky putdown. He has never struck me as a jerk or bad actor, and wondered what the bad vibe some are picking up was.

I assume with Lopes that compliance with his contract demand would affect the compensation structure of the remainder of the coaching staff, i.e., there is a pay scale based on role and he was looking to be paid above his grade. That's a shame as he seemed to be a very knowledgeable and effective coach. At his age, I would doubt he'll do better than a lateral move.

That was a pretty good game last night. I hate to agree with McCarver but, he was dead on that Lee should have been more careful with Renteria with the base open and Rowand on deck. Giving in on 2-0 = loss.

The more I watch him, the more I think Lincecum is my favorite pitcher to watch. I would have given him a chane to finish that game. Brian Wilson and his beard rub me the wrong way. Mockery. I thought he threw three straight hittable fastballs to Hamilton and he stared at the best two, and probably swung at the toughest pitch of the 3. It was the right move by Wilson to challenge him with a 2 run lead and he should have been patient before he got 2 strikes on him. But, that ball he stared at for strike 3 was way worse than the pitch that got Howard.

Hugh: I assume most 1b coaches get less than the pitching, hitting, 3b, and bench coaches; but when you are so effective at teaching a certain aspect of the game, you'd think there could be some exceptions made. I watch a lot of games and off the top of my head I couldn't tell you what the 3b and bench coaches really contributed to the team over and above Lopes (or our hitting coach for that matter).

Congratulations to the Giants. Fatalotti put it best, I think: "It's not about being the "best" team. It's about winning the World Series, and the Giants have done that. That's all that matters. The "Best" team is a subjective descriptor. The WS winner is as objective as it comes."

Everything I feel like typing has pretty much been said. It has nothing to do with my Phillies fandom, but the Giants team did not seem deserving. Their rotation was solid (even though Lincecum and Sanchez were very human in the NLDS and NLCS), their offense is pathetic and they generally played poor defense throughout the playoffs. Not a complete recipe for success.

In addition, they are not a captivating/likable team. Other than Posey, I really can't think of a likable player on that team. Rowand? Freddy Sanchez? Perhaps? Guys like Wilson, Huff, Ross, Uribe, Jonathan Sanchez, Andres Torres drive me insane. Sure, all teams have a guy or two that is completely unlikable, but the Giants seem to have a roster-full.

I'm trying to look at it as objectively as possible -- but it was a bad World Series. The games (other than last night) were not that fun to watch, and weren't necessarily "good games". And there was nothing to root for/root against to make anything interesting. It was the first World Series in a long time, where I feel cheated. It was bad.

I just wrote a post about how I was not as broken up about Lopes leaving as most. In fact, I was very indifferent. I had this feeling that he got a lot more credit than he deserved and his contributions, while impressive, weren't of great importance because the Phillies didn't run much and their game wasn't tailored to speed.

But, as I usually do, I looked up stats to make sure I wouldn't stick my foot in my mouth. Had I posted my original post, I would have looked quite foolish. Lopes will definitely be missed. Their base stealing has improve greatly in quantity and percentage. The've had the best base stealing percentage in the league and the only NL teams with more SBs in a season since '07 are the Mets ('07 - '10), '08 Rockies and '10 Padres. Pretty impressive.

What would Lopes' WAR be if they calculated such things for coaches? 1? totally worth whatever he asked for.

Lopes will certainly be missed. I wonder if they would move Perlozzo to first and bring back Bowa? Because I think Perlozzo is now the infield instructor as well and that's also Bowa's area of expertise.

Don't know if management would want another spin of the wheel with Bowa. As a coach, I am sure he's fine. But as a manager he was quite disruptive with all the mugging and clubhouse rancor.

"How did we frikking loose to these guys?!?!?!?"

They were hot at the right time. We were not. Finis.

Congratulations to the Giants on an impressive series win, producing far more offense than anybody predicted while shutting down one of the premier offensive clubs in Major League Baseball.

I hadn't watched the WS until the last inning last night. When I watched Hamilton take a fastball right down Broadway for strike three, I was proved correct. The Giants won by using Jedi mind tricks.

"Those aren't the droids you're looking for, batter. They are curveballs high and outside."

Then a fastball zips right down the middle.

Yo, next thread

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