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Wednesday, November 03, 2010


Rizzotti is always intriguing to me. They guy hits the ball. What else can you say? I am not willing to state that he's a future star (he's quite old...and blocked by a certain 1B), but if he can hack it in ST, he may be worth a call-up at some point in the season.

Look at it this way -- Matt Stairs didn't have a position, either. He can spell Ryan a few games during the season and be a RH bat off the bench. If the roster allows, of course.

Rizzotti bats LH...what's with Mayberry?

Not sure what's up with Mayberry - he's only appeared in one game. He's too old to be there anyway - what could he possibly gain in that league that he hasn't learned in three full seasons at Trip-A? He's going to be 27 next month. It's going to finally click for him in Arizona???

Mayberry needs to go to Mexico or Venezuela and hack at breaking balls all winter. I hope he works out as a 4th outfielder. As for Rizzotti, he's trade bait. Hopefully the Phils can turn him into a useful bullpen piece.

Julio Rdoriguez has posted great numbers in the low minors (at an apparently young enough age), but scouting reports have him getting by with only an average fastball and a plus-curve. The worry is that at the upper levels, hitters can actually hit breaking balls, and Rodriguez will struggle.

Rizzotti is still hitting. He is what he is. Not sure what the Phils do with him--people say he's trade bait, but you're not getting much for him. A 24-year old hitter without a position is the kind of guy teams can pick up relatively cheaply off the waiver wire or minor league free agent list.

De Fratus is the most interesting guy on here, and the one most likely to contribute to the Phillies. He certainly projects to be a future bullpen piece for the major league team, perhaps as soon as the second half of this year.

Give Rizzotti the first base coach/lefty PH job.

Classic Conlin article today.....

"If Ryan Howard and Pat Burrell had a bat fight at close range, there would be no injuries save windburn"

Phils have been cautiously moving Rizzotti to LF to avoid the positional block of Howard. I love the move if it gets someone with a high OBP to CBP earlier.

did Burrell bat .310 in the series?

From what I remember the Caucasian Juan Samuel was 0 for 13 with 11Ks and had one hit in the 2008 WS, albeit a huge one. Not sure about Conlin's point because I'm sure the rest of his article is equally mundane.

I thought it was Singleton they were moving to left.

ESPN3, which is online content for participating Cable services(i.e. use your comcast cable account to log-in) has the rights to The Puetro Rican and Venezuelan Winter leagues.

For the gamers out there like Old Phan and Lake_Fred, they can also stream it on their XBOX and also watch replays and search for upcoming games.

Burrel has 1 hit and 2 rings to whow for his World Series trips. Still he helped his teams get there and I have no issue with him.

I think steve-o might be confusing Rizzotti with Singleton, who has definitely been moved to left (with apparently very impressive early results). I haven't heard anything about Rizzotti being moved to LF.

I hate Cody Ross.

yeah shcrew dat guy1

I think there was talks of Rizzotti (in addition to Singleton) being tested in the OF in the Fall League or Instructs or something.

Rizzotti will never play LF...he can barely handle 1B.

Plus Oswalt has the LF spot locked up anyway

NEPP - Have you seen Rizzotti play much first base? I have to admit he doesn't look the least little bit athletic. But I watched Greg Luzinski play left field, and that convinced me that almost anyone can. And I watched Dick Allen play left with only one working hand. It's not exactly the defensive position you put your strongest fielder in. If the guy can hit major league pitching (and of course that's the big if) then left field would be the only place for him on the Phillies. He's not replacing Howard. Although I think it's possible that Singleton will man left someday for the Phils, then move to first after they unload Howard's contract at a hefty loss. About 3-4 years from now.

By 3-4 years, I meant that's when Singleton will get to the majors. I'd say the last two years of Howard's monstrosity will be the ones that have the Phillies working the phone lines to trade for a bag of balls.

Duh, Rizzotti is LH. Sorry about my typo in the first. The point is still valid.

If they are unable to move him via trade, and if the roster allows, what is the downside to carrying a bat like his on the bench? He has hit at every level. It's not like you're asking him to be your everyday first baseman.

Andy: Your 10:51 a.m. post is dead-on. Excellent analysis!

"if the roster allows, what is the downside to carrying a bat like his on the bench?"

I'm curious about Rizzotti too, but the roster only has room for 5 bench players. It's pretty tough for a National League team to set aside one of those bench spots for a guy who doesn't provide any defensive depth. That said, I see no harm in at least trying the guy in LF. The defensive threshold for that position is pretty low. So long as he can catch a fly ball, and run at least as fast as Pat Burrell, he should be able to play a bad, but passable, LF.

Thanks, Billingsley; I try to be statistically accurate.

Rizzotti is the answer after all.

Lighten up the Afternoon : Wally Backman flipping out at what looks like a meaningless game. Kinda funny.

Jason, I know that I am a thread late, but the thread header of the previous thread nicely stated what I believe. Nice job.

BLers were always worried about the Giants because of their starting three pitchers being built for playoff baseball. The Phillies are the only other club that has similar starting pitching strength. It became obvious that whoever emerged from the Phillies - Giants NLCS would give any AL opponent more than they could handle. The Giants remind me of those great Dodgers teams in the mid-sixties with Koufax, Drysdale and Ron Perranoski coming out of the pen, winning all those 2 to 1 games. They couldn't score much but they didn't have to. Our anemic bats in the NLCS sealed our fate this year. As they say, there's always next year. I wonder who will pay Werth a boatload of money?

I know one thing,if Dusty Baker was still manager of the Giants he would have mishandled the pitching staff into another post season flameout. Credit to Bochy for making all the right moves on top of our vanshing act offensively.

I can't decide where I am on the Werth issue, but here's an interesting "letter" about it:

Here's another something of interest: one man's opinion on FAs to target. I only skimmed it, so I'm not sure he's realistic about/addresses the budget, but for what it's worth....

Rizzotti playing LF would be most amusing.

Jack's analysis is correct. He wouldn't yield much in a trade. I can see Billy Beane taking a flyer on him as a 6-year minor league free agent.

I actually think the prospects of Werth coming back have improved somewhat in the past few weeks. The Yankees will not sign him, they have to worry about at least $20 million per year for Jeter's final contract, and will be breaking the bank for Cliff Lee. The way things stand these days economically, only 3 or 4 teams are in the mix for his calibur of free agent, the Phillies, Yanks, Red Sox, and perhaps the Mets but highly doubtful given Alderson's penchant for playing hardball with Boras-style agents. The Red Sox seem to be the most reasonable alternative, but have to make decisions on some aging vets as well. It may be that in the end we're the best option he has regardless.

Clout: I can see plenty of GMs taking a flyer on Rizzotti as a minor-league FA. It's not just Beane who likes hitters who can take walks and hit some power. Everyone likes those.

Anyway, Beane might like those things, but he sure does a crappy job of putting an offense in the field that can do them. The A's have been a terrible offensive team the last 4 seasons.

Joe Cowley: The Angels should be included in your list of teams, as well.

Not sure about the Angels salary situation but I guess they would want to make a splash after this season's let-down.

Jack: "The A's have been a terrible offensive team the last 4 seasons."

Sure can't argue with that. By the way, how did Beane's teams do in the 7 years prior to the 4 season period you mention?

I believe the A's had the market cornered on torrid second half baseball for a while there (before the Phillies took that over), just couldn't take it into the pose season with any success.


I'm surprised there wasn't more chatter about this:

Jon Heyman of hears that the Phillies might consider trading for Aaron Rowand if the Giants are willing to pick up most of his remaining salary.

I heard that. The Nose Heard Round the World would do squat to help us next season. Great locker room guy, another Ibanez with less power as a player. I hope we dont do that move.

I vote no on Rowand. I mean come on. Unless we get him for cheap with the intention he comes off the bench as backup.

Walking into a room and seeing the Giants parade on TV is making me a bit weepy, because I am almost certain that my hometown A's will never celebrate another World Series victory in Oakland.

Sad day for A's fans.

No on Rowand. If he had a platoon split, perhaps, but he OPSed a mere .682 against lefties in '10 and an even paltrier .636 in '09. I'll take Francisco.

Joe Cowley: For a Phillies fan you are quick to forget. I believe Howard set a strikeout record in the World Series last year. This is a different era, 10 years ago something like that never would have been overlooked. The truth is that when it comes to strikeouts, Burrell and Howard can be compared as Bill Conlin did.

At least he sprinkled in some offensive production in the past 2 years.

Clout: Don't take my comment as a rip on Beane. I like the guy and respect totally what the A's did the last decade. And obviously I believe that getting on base and hitting for power makes good offenses.

My point was that plenty of GMs beyond Beane would look at a guy like Rizzotti and take a chance on him. Maybe in 1998 Beane would have been the only guy to see his minor-league stat line and take a chance, but those days are long gone.

@Clout -- The A’s offense in general was only top third to middle of the back (other than 1 year, where they were second) in the AL in the period you questioned. Of course, I'm using an old fashioned metric unadjusted for ballpark...runs.

Their pitching, however, was outstanding in those years. Top or second in the league. It is amazing what quality young starting pitching can do for a team.

What do you guys think about signing Chris Young and Brandon Webb. Could be some low cost very high upside signings especially since we won't lose a pick. I know we don't neccesarily need more pitching but injuries through the year is always a concern. Plus I would love to see them in the pen.

Brandon Webb>>Cris Benson a few years back

Of course I don't know what the salary expectations/offset are between the two. If he's cheap, I'm all for it.

Chris Young hasn't been right in a few years. And I'd hate to waste money on a guy who isn't likely to stay healthy.

Webb? My guess is that if he looks even a little bit healthy, someone like Beane will overpay for him like he did for Sheets.

Sometimes it's better to retire before someone discovers you're not a genius. Beane might be such a case.

What about Vlad Guerrero for a right field platoon? The Rangers declined his option today.

Not sure Vlad could even manage a corner OF spot once a week, left alone a platoon. Too bad, he can still hit.

Memories of him killing the Phillies will never fade.

career vs PHI: .371/.465/.739 - 1.204 OPS in 387 PA along with 31 HR, 84 RBI in just 91 games against.

Are we forgetting Vlad's defensive mastery in RF during the playoffs?

Just brutal.

Someone may be forgetting it. I simply never saw it. If he's brutal, then he's not an NL option. Too bad. Always wanted to see that bat on the Phils.

Vlad is a pure DH at this least based on the fielding I saw.

Maybe a below average LF.

Ordonez might be a good fit for the Phillies. Sign him to a two-year deal as the soon-to-be replacement for Ibanez for a total of $10-15 million. Start him in RF at the beginning of the season or in LF against lefties (Mayberry or Francisco would play some RF against lefties.).

Bring up Brown on July 1 to play RF and move Ordonez to LF. Trade Ibanez at mid-season or move him to the bench.

Outfield defense would be weak in the first-half of the season against righties, with Ibanez in left and Ordonez in right, but team offense should be strong.

By mid-season, the outfield would consist of Ordonez, Victorino and Brown. By 2013, hopefully, Singleton would be ready to play LF (We might have to extend Victorino for another couple of years until a CF replacement is ready.).

"The Phillies claimed INF Carlos Rivero off waivers from the Cleveland Indians today. Rivero spent last year with double-A Akron. The Phillies are now at 34 players on their 40-man roster"

Dumpster diving for a guy who hit .237 last year. Tells you how nonexistent the minor league system is in terms of middle infielders. Likely a guy signed who has a decent shot at being Reading's Opening Day 2B next year depending on what they did with Harold Garcia.

Frankly I really don't care much at all about how a guy looks in the Arizona Fall League or the various Caribbean Winter Leagues. Only really matters if a guy had his season cut short like Rosenberg & you are curious to see more of what they have to offer.

What I really wonder is if Amaro will be a first-mover this offseason. Obviously isn't going to sign of the big name FAs but has shown that he identifies 1-2 players each offseason & moves on them quickly. He also has been pretty quick in resigning the Phils' FA he wants back too.

One of the things I am really curious to see about this offseason is how that unfolds. Does he identify a veteran OF who he wants to give a 1-2 year deal at the start of the FA? Ditto a reliever? Hard to believe that Amaro will be patient and largely passive the first 2-3 weeks this offseason despite having a fairly set roster & little room to maneuver.

MG, I'm right there with you on the early move question. Interestingly, unlike the last two years, it might make some sense to move early this offseason: Dave Cameron wrote yesterday that it looks like teams are preparing for some salary inflation this offseason.

On the other hand, the Phils don't really need any pure starting position players. Really, they need a back-up corner infielder, one SP, a bunch of relief arms, and a platoon option or 5th outfielder. Given the needs, I hope he waits out the market for some bargain options. Though I wouldn't mind if he struck quickly on a decent option for the pen.

Let the angels take werth, then they can move Torii Hunter to us. They are chock full of fielders in LA of Orange County.

It is great to talk about prospects, but the Phillies seem to have no confidence in their own prospects, so I'm afraid they will trade them right when they are ripe for the Major Leagues.

No on Rowand? Why, exactly? The guy had the worst year of his career, yes. His previous two seasons before '10 look very much like his '05/'06 lines. The guy got hit in the face with a pitch last April, which might have had something to do with the .230 average. There's no reason to think he can't bounce back and produce in a platoon-type role.

Also, I would think Amaro might look at this team right now and think it may need more of a spark than it showed last season. Particularly if they aren't paying him what SF paid him, Rowand is a nice place to start in that direction.

Rowand appears to be at a point in his career whee he is . . . . . WASHED UP. You know, that thing Ibanez is supposed to be all the time, but isn't really? Rowand really is.

Anyone want to take over/under bets on when the Howard for Pujols rumors start up again?

I'm going with December 18th at the latest.

I think the rumors started in the post before this one. What else would we have to give them? Howard plus Doc? Utley? Roy Jr.?

derekcarstairs: Ordonez is a terrific idea. Nobody has mentioned it in the national media (at least that I've seen), but he is one guy who could come cheaper than Werth (for shorter years) and have the potential to put up comparable numbers...maybe even better if he's healthy. Not sure how he is in the clubhouse, but he would be terrific. I'd bet you could get him for 14 or 15 per over 2 or 3 years. Not cheap, but not 6 or 7/120, either.

Just looked it up and Ordonez will be 37 this season. Yikes. At the same time, he's a bonified 300 hitter but I'd be scared of Raul syndrome. I'd do 1 or 2 years.

By all means. Another senior citizen for the outfield.

One year or nothing for anyone that age. And they're not likely to pay anyone more than a pittance to play right field. They've got more than 140 million already tied up in 16 players.

I don't have an issue with Ordonez or his age, per se, I would just have an issue with signing him to an extended contract. 1 yr at $7 mil or 2 at 10 (with possible incentives based on playing time/performance.)

Let's not give him a contract with 3 guaranteed years and a NTC, please like our current left fielder.

Report today that Werth is off of the Yankees radar as they focus on Cliff Lee and re-signing Mo and Jeter.

Magglio for 2 years makes sense as it looks like our window to win another title is basically about that long. he will give us 40 homers in this park even at his age and also hit for average, with is a combo that we definitely are lacking especially with Werth leaving. It would be in his best interest also as inflated offensive numbers in this park may propel him to one last contract.

Jon Heyman in SI on Werth:

The best guess here is that he goes to Boston or stays in Philly. The haul? Maybe $85 million for five years.

Read more:

Highlight of the SF victory parade:

"Slugger Aubrey Huff, who threatened to unveil his lucky red thong at the parade, made good on his words by waving it at fans. They roared with deafening approval. He later pulled out the "rally thong" while addressing raucous fans at Civic Center."

I think I'd rather hear Chase drop the F-Bomb.

"he will give us 40 homers in this park even at his age "

Remember when Pedro Feliz was a lock to hit 30 HRs in CBP? I seriously doubt MO would hit 30. Ordonez has 42 HRs in the last 3 years in over 1500 PAs. With his advancing age, he might be lucky to hit 20.

That said, if the Phils could get a cheap 1 year deal to use him as a RH semi-platoon in a shake-and-bake corner OF (Ibanez/Brown/Ben Fran/Magglio), I'd be okay with it -- Magglio should still be a plus hitter.

Magglio is a much better hitter than Feliz ever was, I think he would have one of those bounce-back years in this park than in any other he could go to either way.

Ordonez is definitely intriguing, but not sure I'd got multi-year with him.

"Slugger Aubrey Huff, who threatened to unveil his lucky red thong at the parade, made good on his words by waving it at fans. They roared with deafening approval. He later pulled out the "rally thong" while addressing raucous fans at Civic Center."

I've always hated teams with stupid gimmicks like that.

gobaystars: they just needed something to counteract Pat Burrell's rally-killing wiffle bat.

I've been saying for months that Magglio Ordonez would be a nice one to two-year stop-gap if Werth leaves. I don't really see him as a platoon player, though -- at least not if he hits as he has in recent years. I see him more as a guy who would need frequent days off, but would basically be your everyday right-fielder. That means that, if Domonic Brown is to be part of the 2010 equation, Raul would have to be traded.

Typical for West Coast fans. Going to games in San Fran and LA especially is basically party time. They don't live and die with every at bat and every pitch the way we do in the Northeast. They arrive in the 3rd inning, leave in the 7th, and know little or no history of their team or the game itself. You think that town would have been devastated if they lost the series or were eliminated in the NLCS? Maybe for a few minutes, before they fired up another one.

Joe: You have a rather stereotyped, and East Coast elitist, view of San Francisco fans. I know plenty of very knowledgeable and very die-hard Giants fans. Now A's fans . . . that's another story.

Another night of sleep and I still hate Cody Ross.

Cowley - you didn't note the vast difference between SF and Texas fans, for one? You can't lump Southern Cali, or any of the western cities, in with that town. Different animal. Them Franciscans were LOUD, not laid-back.

I think you're short-changing San Francisco fans a little bit. Are they as hardcore as Boston/NY/Philly? Perhaps not, but then part of that is media driven. Are they far less flaky than LA fans? Absolutely. They've never won a World Series in SF and have had plenty of tortured moments in the past (2002, 1989, etc).

San Francisco is nothing like LA apart from both being located next to the Pacific.

I bet if Ordonez played LF all season he would easily eclipse the HR production of Pedro Feliz, who was known as having a lot of "pop."

Loud doesnt necessarily mean passionate. I remember watching a Mariners game on MLB where the guy had a no hitter into the 8th inning, and when it was broken up there were about 6 people standing up and clapping, and the stadium was pretty full for some strange reason. It's just a different environment.

Just use Ordonez as the everyday LF and have Ibanez spot him and be a LH PH off the bench...maybe getting an occasional start at 1B to spell Howard too.

Seattle is a football town. The Mariners have only been there for 33 years & they have spent about 90% of that time being completely inept. Hence, they don't have a particularly hard-core fan base.

Among all west coast teams, I would rate the Giants as having easily the most passionate fans. Whenever I go to a Giants game, the fans are into it. When I go to an A's game, on the other hand, the fans are more vocal about the between-innings dot-racing than they are about the game. That's why I rarely go to an A's game, even though the tickets are cheap & Oakland is a lot closer to me than SF.

I don't get why Tizzoti is dismissed out of hand. Too old at 25? Howard came up when he was 26! A history of high OBP can hit for an average. We no doubt have a lot more in the larder.

My typng never too strong. I don't get why Rizzoti is dismissed out of hand. Too old at 25? Howard came up when he was 26! A history of high OBP can hit for an average. We no doubt have a lot more in the larder.

Yu Darvish now says, finally, that he will consider playing in the US. In 2012. Phils should get him to replace any starter who leaves after next year.

RK: Howard got a late start in the majors but he was a beast in the minors from pretty early on. For Rizzotti's first 3 seasons, he was your garden variety .265 hitter; then, out of nowhere, he hit .343 last year across 3 levels. The season was so anomalous, compared with his past performance, that it's more than fair to take a wait-and-see approach before we go crazy over him.

If Rizzotti can repeat his 2009 numbers this year, I guarantee you that the scouts will take notice and he'll shoot up the prospects boards. He may not have any other tools, but if a guy can rake, he'll find employment in the major leagues.

I don't know how fair it is to denigrate the A's fanbase based on recent observations. It appears to me that current ownership is deliberately driving even hard-core A's fans away by refusing to invest in putting a good product on the field, as a means to leverage his way into MLB approval of his plan to leave town.

Joe: You have a rather stereotyped, and East Coast elitist, view of San Francisco fans. I know plenty of very knowledgeable and very die-hard Giants fans. Now A's fans . . . that's another story.

Posted by: bay_area_phan | Thursday, November 04, 2010 at 10:52 AM


bap, I hope you get well soon. Then, go f.uck yourself.


Wow...stay classy.

You all should read bill baer's article on about Dom Brown and platoons. He brings up some great points. He makes a lot of sense.

out of my league: Isnt' there an A's blog to follow? Maybe a Philadelphia A's, if you need the Philly part?

"They arrive in the 3rd inning, leave in the 7th, and know little or no history of their team or the game itself"

Yea, and all Phillies fan throw snowballs at Santa Claus.

bap -- you're totally correct about seattle and their fans. I moved here over 10 years ago and the seahawks are the only team that consistently draws fans. Once the Ms and the now OKC Thunder went in the crapper, both teams played to half-filled venues all the time. Surprisingly, the Sounders are the 2nd toughest ticket to get in town. Thankfully, the Phils finally come to Safeco next season!

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