Winter leagues: Valle off to fast start in Mexico

Continuing our survey of the Caribbean leagues, we move to Mexico, where a pair of Phillies are holing up for the winter.

Sebastian Valle, the Phillies’ 20-year-old slugging catcher, is 3-for-5 with a walk, homer, double and single in the early going for his hometown Caneros de los Mochis. Considered one of the Phillies top catching prospects, Valle hit .255/.298/.430 with 16 homers for the Low-A champion Lakewood Blueclaws. Scouts seem to appreciate his power potential, but question his future behind the plate and think he could wind up at another position. In addition, lefty stalwart and Beerleaguer favorite Brian Mazone is also there. He was drilled for seven runs in 3 1-3 innings in his first start for Mexicali.

Comments

[CJ]

Now THIS is a thread that Beerleaguer regulars can sink their teeth into...

[CJ]

Valle may be one of the more important players in our system given the dearth of catching prospects now that Marson, Jarmillo and d'Arnaud are all gone.

[GBrettfan]

Doesn't sound like he knows how to block balls in the dirt.

[Jack]

FWIW, I've read some scouts that question his defense, and some that think it's an asset.

The Baseball America write-up of the top 20 prospects in the SAL, for instance, wrote that his defense was a real strength.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

I think his defense greatly improved over the last year. Last offseason there was 3b conversion talks. I think that has quieted.

[GBrettfan]

Jack - Re: Cliff Lee. I could picture that happening, too. I can always picture many scenarios, which is why I would never bet. I was as sure as I could be that Halladay would be stellar the other day. I feel pretty sure that Lee will be good, too, but I can easily imagine the Yankees getting to him at least enough to chase him from the game by the 7th, as you say, and then go to work on the BP.

[J. Weitzel]

At age 20, they would be foolish to move him to another position. It's the hardest position to grasp.

[HammRadio]

I know its a new thread and its an easy way to eliminate the bunt talk and while i'm close to sick of it. I was absolutely okay with the bunt.

This was a Charlie Manuel Gut Desicion (TM) all the way. The night before, same situation, pitcher on first, vic at plate. Double Play. Now, while Vic is less likely to hit a double play than nearly any other Phillie save for maybe JWerth, that double play was in his mind. Its a simple gut decision. Last night I didn't bunt in that situation... I'm going to give it a go tonight. "Trust the Gut."

Its as simple as that. You can throw around all the stats you want. Stats on both sides argue strong their points well. But you gotta trust the gut.

There was definitely a different management style last night than Saturday. I was screaming from my seats as I watched Werth and Utley reach base and stay planted on first base. Is it that hard to run on Timmy and Buster? Maybe it is... i just haven't read an explanation.

But from the go last night, Manuel switched on the gut... and statistics be damned and decided to play it agressive. Trusting Oswalt on the bases (more so than the lumbering Halladay) has a lot to do with it i'm sure as well.

We can continue to beat it to death, to argue about a gamble that had merit versus some sort of affront to players of baseball everywhere, because after all it's beerleaguer. But its simply just another "Trust the Gut" moment.

**bleech** I just had a vision of TMac doing the voice over...

That's another "Trust the Gut" moment brought to you by Nutrisystem (r) where you can still lose the gut but never the trust.

[rauls grandpa]

Pick the lowest ranked AL team with a need for catching depth at AA or AAA, this guy will be traded to them and playing there within a year and a half.

[CJ]

Jason nails it, as usual. There's plenty of time to move him from behind the plate if that time comes. His position is way to valuable to give up on it for defensive reasons at age 20.

[Andy]

BBeard - How tall is he?

[DH Phils]

Everyone: the bunt worked. You can't criticize the decision of something that worked. Signing Danys Baez worked - the Phillies won the division, didn't they? The Cliff Lee trade worked - you can't criticize it.

I'm pretty indifferent to whether or not the bunt is a good play there, but the argument that it worked, therefore it was a good call, is as dumb as it gets.

If Bengie Molina decides to steal 3rd tonight with 2 outs and Josh Hamilton batting, and Jorge Posada throws the ball past the third baseman, allowing him to score, that does not mean Bengie Molina's steal was a good move. It is still stupid, even if it works. Why are so many people unable to grasp that?

[philwynk]

From the last thread:

Did anyone hear JRoll imitate UC on the post-game interview last night?

It was near-perfect...

Posted by: Hope SE | Monday, October 18, 2010 at 03:51 PM

Sure did, and not only was it spot-on, it was really funny.

[Jack]

Sounds like Mazone has a damn good case of the Mexicali blues.

[clout]

DH Phils: "You can't criticize the decision of something that worked. Signing Danys Baez worked - the Phillies won the division, didn't they? The Cliff Lee trade worked - you can't criticize it."

Obviously, DH Phils is being facetious here.

[Willard Preacher]

Presumably Valle projects to be the next Yogi Bera, or the next Johnny Bench? We need clarity.

[sdphillie]

Apparently Mazone wasn't watching the Phillies games and what happens when you throw inside to #8 hitters.

[aksmith]

Valle was never a candidate to be moved to another position. One publication "moved" him in their eval because the Phillies' system is bereft of third base prospects. That was more a comment on his power potential and the system's weakness than his inability to catch.

This guy will be a catcher and quite possibly a good one. Seems to have serious power. And his defense will be fine. He is a real prospect and he has years to develop into a major leaguer.

[out of my league]

Fear Josh Hamilton.

[philwynk]

Texas has scored early on New York three games in a row. This is a good offensive team.

[NEPP]

To reiterate the moving Valle comment, a big reason behind the comments to move him to 3B was the presence of both Marson and D'Arnaud in the system. Most scouts figured he was blocked so they figured 3B would be the next best position for his skillset. It wasnt a defensive issue.

His big huge question mark is his OBP skills.

Hitting below .300 OBP in Lakewood is a red flag.

[NEPP]

I'd much much rather face NY than Tex in the WS.

[Mego]

Valle's defense was a question mark coming into the year, but thanks to his coaching in Lakewood, hes become a solid piece behind the plate. He threw out like 33% off base stealers and handled the staff well from all accounts.

[NEPP]

Jaramillo was still in the system when the "move Valle to 3B" comment was made so that's 3 good C prospects ahead of him at the time.

[Scott]

.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Aren't we talking about last offseason, not 2 ago?

[Fatalotti]

I hope Hamilton does it again.

I don't care about rematches and vengeance, and all that nonsense. I don't want anything good for the Yankees, ever.

[Jack]

I want to face the Rangers because I think we can beat them easier than the Yankees.

I don't care about beating the Yankees. I care about winning another World Series. Whatever makes that easier, I support.

[Fatalotti]

Cliff Lee is remarkable.

[NEPP]

If only he was a dominant pitcher.

[Fatalotti]

Lee not even his usual sharp self today, and he's still dismantling the Yankees lineup.

[philwynk]

I suspect we're going to be facing the Rangers, not the Yankees. They seem to have the momentum in this series.

Anybody doubt that 2 runs is enough of a margin for Lee? The man is a machine in the post-season...

[Fatalotti]

Your speed means NOTHING to Cliff Lee.

**even though he was probably safe**

[out of my league]

I hope Hamilton does it again.

I don't care about rematches and vengeance, and all that nonsense. I don't want anything good for the Yankees, ever.

Posted by: Fatalotti | Monday, October 18, 2010 at 08:56 PM

~~~~~~~~~~

Are you hoping that Hamilton hits second home run in this game, or a third first inning home run in tomorrow's game?

[Fatalotti]

Both?

[Old Phan]

He should have tried to actually touch the bag. He may have been safe.

[Fatalotti]

What would Cliff Lee do to the Phillies lineup?

I shudder to think about it.

[JeffS]

What NEPP said. This TX team is looking scrappy and better than I thought. It could mean the skankies are not as good as I thought. Either way, I'd rather take the Yanks. Especially if we have a few days off in between to prep.

[Fatalotti]

Gardner was stupid to slide. Not only does it slow you down, but he almost got his hand stomped on, and his head wrenched by Lee's legs. Moron.

[Jack]

Momentum is only as good as the next day's starting pitcher.

Unfortunately for the Yankees, their next starting pitcher is A.J. Burnett. So I guess yeah, the Rangers have the momentum.

Oh, and Gardner wasn't safe. He didn't touch the base.

[NEPP]

Between Lee and CJ Wilson, the Rangers LH pitching would murder us.

I'd much rather face the Yankees pitching. We can score enough against them at least.

Also, the Rangers offense is pretty good too.

[Jack]

NEPP: Phils hit lefties better than righties this year.

[Jack]

Yes, the Rangers offense is decent.

The Yankees offense is much better.

[NEPP]

I'm aware of the split, Jack.

Career wise though, we dont...so it could just be a sample size issue this year. Do you see us hitting Lee?

[Fatalotti]

The Yanks should have pitched Burnett tonight. Why have decreased odds of winning two nights in a row. Consolidate your losses. If they lose to Lee tonight, the Rangers can really take a stranglehold on this series tomorrow if (when) they get to Burnett.

[Fatalotti]

We'll only hit Lee if he's off his game that night, ie he's putting pitches right down Broad.

Otherwise, Lee will murder us, slowly and mercilessly.

It will be hard to watch if you're a Phillies fan.

[NEPP]

If the Rangers win tonight, they only have to take 1 of the next 3 before they get to go to Lee again in Game 7.

[Jack]

NEPP: Do I see us hitting Lee? Not really.

But I do see us working C.J. Wilson like we just worked Sanchez, and I see us hitting Colby Lewis and Tommy Hunter.

And I see the Rangers offense posing much less of a threat than the Yankees offense.

[out of my league]

Heartwarming comments I just saw on a Yankees blog...

I don’t think Brett even touched the bag. F@@K LEE and his gobbamn smug f@@king looking on his face."

"He’s so smug. With good reason. But man, I’d like a line drive off his f@@king shin."

[NEPP]

For a finesse guy, this Lee fella sure does rack up the strikeouts.

[Fatalotti]

That's so cute that they spell it gobbamn...

Just precious.

[Joe Cowley]

The last time Yankee Staudium was this quiet was...the last time Lee pitched there

[Fatalotti]

The one thing...one...that the Yankees are doing fairly well tonight is working Lee's count a little bit.

They may actually get to the Rangers bullpen tonight. The Rangers better put up more runs if that's the case.

[out of my league]

I should have noted that I edited the spelling for re-posting on BL. (Not sure if JW has a rule about foul language?)

[Fatalotti]

Watch your language Nick Swisher!

[NEPP]

I really hope that Lee doesnt sign with the Yankees.

It'd be a huge loss to baseball to have such a great Yankees killer not able to practice his craft.

If the BoSox had balls, they'd outbid them for him and then figure it out later on moving someone else to make room.

[Fatalotti]

Cot damn, Lee has 28 Ks to ZERO WALKS in the postseason.

That is insane!

[NEPP]

****The one thing...one...that the Yankees are doing fairly well tonight is working Lee's count a little bit. ****

The downside is that Lee is easily capable of 120 pitches...and he tends to get stronger in the middle to later innings with those annoying as hell 7 pitch innings.

He's a hell of a pitcher.

[Scott]

Maybe someone needs to post HypnoCliff and the bouncing Cliff Lee head on some of the Yankmees blogs...

[phlipper]

NEPP - The Phils had a better OPS against lefties last year also.

[Joe Cowley]

Standing O for a walk?

[Fatalotti]

Can you imagine if Lee had been THIS Lee in 2007 with CC?

Those two at the top of the rotation surely wouldn't have lost to the Red Sox, and would've easily dispatched of the Red Sox, and Lee would have a ring already.

[phlipper]

Better OBP and SLG, also.

[NEPP]

Cliff Lee: 9 ER in 60 IP for his post-season career.

That's pretty good.

61 K, 7 BB for his career too.

[Joe Cowley]

If he takes a no hitter into the game late Lance Berkman will be the guy that breaks it up.

[Fatalotti]

**would've easily dispatched of the Rockies**

[phlipper]

I can't see how anyone would rather face the Yankees. All the need to do is have a lead late in the game and they win. That is a huge advantage that no other team has.

Rivera is the god of baseball.

[NEPP]

Other than Rivera, the Yankees pitching staff is cobbled together with duct tape and glue.

Sabathia has looked very hittable this post-season, Pettitte has arm problems, Burnett is terrible and Hughes is hitting a wall too due to a ton of innings.

[Joe Cowley]

Wait! A Non-Phillies fan just ran onto the field????? Unheard of.....wonder if the national media will report that.....

[NEPP]

He was probably born in Philly or something. Dont worry, this is somehow Philly's fault.

We booed Santa, you know.

[Andy]

This Lee guy looks kinda good.

[Joe Cowley]

The guy who ran on the field was just ID'd as Ruben Amaro Junior Junior...

[NEPP]

Mo Rivera has 117 Saves and a 271 ERA+ over the last 3 seasons.

271...you are reading that correctly.

He's also posted a 0.797 WHIP in that time period along with a 1.64 ERA.

To put it in perspective, Lidge posted a 226 ERA+ in 2008.

[Andy]

Isn't his contract up at the end of the season? Maybe the Phils could, like, hire him as a second LHP for the rotation.

[NEPP]

Screw the rotation, use him out of the BP as a late LHP reliever after Romero leaves.

We could give him something like 3 years, $13 ($4.34 million per) to do it.

He'd go for it, right?

[Joe Cowley]

Jorgie juiced one

[NEPP]

Lee has allowed 12 hits in 20.2 IP this post-season.

He's struck out 29 so far in his 3 starts (and counting obviously)

[Mick in Houston]

Heres a question.

Lee had a no-hitter going. What if, someone throws a 'perfect game' but someone reaches first on a strike out? What does that count as?

Sorry for the off tangent question, just thought of it with all the strike 3's in the dirt.

[Fatalotti]

The Rangers would be wise to put some runs on the board. I just don't see Lee going all 9 tonight.

[Fatalotti]

It wouldn't be a perfect game, Mick. A perfect game means 27 up, 27 down. No exceptions.

[NEPP]

I'd be a no-hitter but not a perfect game. No errors though despite the baserunner.

[Fatalotti]

How the hell did Yankee Stadium hold that one?

[NEPP]

How many HRs did Hamilton hit here during the HR Derby? 107?

He loves this park.

[Mick in Houston]

So thats an error on the ... catcher?

And I def thought that ball was wayyy out of this bandbox.

[Fatalotti]

Funny thing is it'd be more impressive than a perfect game, though. The pithcer would actually get 28 outs without giving up a hit or a walk, but it wouldn't be deemed a perfect game, through no fault of the pitcher's.

There have been 20 perfect games in baseball history, but I doubt that they are the 20 most impressive games ever pitched.

[Mick in Houston]

Yeah, Im pretty impressed when a pitcher strikes out 4 in one inning. And how cool would it be to get 28 outs in one game, with no hits and no walks.

[Jack]

Yanks will get to Lee here.

[Fatalotti]

How many times has Lee pitched out of the stretch this posteason?

5 times?

[phlipper]

Just read through the end of the last thread, and saw that clout managed to post numerous numerous lies in record time. He was also just flat out wrong, as Huff's relay was on line.

http://tiny.cc/2s2oc99y0z

[phlipper]

The Yankees lineup is relentless.

[Fatalotti]

Lee will give them one more inning of shutout ball. The Ranger's bullpen will blow the game in the 8th inning.

[Mick in Houston]

Good thing Nolan Ryan doesnt believe in pitch counts cuz Lee is gonna throw 150 tonight.

[Steve]

how annoying is the claw? bet that get annoying real quick in the WS

[NEPP]

97 pitches through 6.

Damn.

[Mego]

Hamilton hit the HRs in old Yankee stadium

[phlipper]

How long can C_____ L_____ go? My guess is one more inning and then they go to Feliz.

[phlipper]

BTW - how good is Andy Pettitte? An incredible big game pitcher. It seemed his career was over a couple of years ago, but he has continued to pitch well in the post season throughout.

[NEPP]

Feliz for the 2 inning Save? That should be interesting.

He does have three 2 inning saves this year and one 1.2 inning save.

[phlipper]

My bad, NEPP - I thought last inning was the 7th.

[NEPP]

phlipper, I honestly would consider bringing Feliz in. The rest of their bullpen showed how hittable they were in Game 1.

Pettitte is ridiculous.