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Saturday, October 23, 2010

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It is difficult to imagine a more appropriately symbolic end to the season than Ryan Howard taking a called third strike. All season long this team has acted like they're just marking time, waiting for the next guy in line to step up, & no one ever did.

What, we're going with Power Point slides now?

First (hooray...)

I refuse to pin this loss on one person - the entire offense was awful throughout the series.

That is a stark and depressing graphic, JW.

It was still a great year to get to the postseason! And a great run of 4 postseasons in a row! And we saw the Halladay perfect game and the Halladay NLDS shutout!


if you told me ten months ago that Cliff Lee would be starting game one of the world series and most likley win the world series I would of cried with tears of joy... WOW

Just in disbelief we lost to that team. Team looked tired at times, old at others and obviously out-managed in key spots.

How bad was Utley this post season series? Polanco was playing injured and fared much better.

Ways it could have been worse:

Burrell with the game winning homer.

Ross with the game winning homer.

Lidge blown save.

Posted by: phlipper


I agree.

Utley, Howard, Rollins, and Ibanez will all bounce back to career norms next year.

Reposted from the last thread:

Where the Giants found holes all series, the Phillies found gloves. That's baseball.

It hurts, but February will come soon enough.

Congratulations, Giants. Now go win the least-watched World Series in years.

OK lets all try to hit a home run.


The bottom line is getting this team to mfg. Runs. If they do that, no one can beat them. No one. But they still insist on trying to win with one swing. I am talking about each and everyone hitter in this lineup except Polanco and Chooch.

Way to keep it positive GBfan.

Does anyone know whether the fans gave the team a round of applause?

Obligatory If You Told Us Way Back When Post:

We won't be the first NL team to win three straight pennants.

We won't be the first NL team to win 6 pennants in the LCS era.

We'll be yet another team with the best record that doesn't win it all.

We win 4 straight division titles. Had the best record in baseball. Got a second perfect game and a postseason no hitter. And the first postseaon sweep.

And we're disappointed.

You tell us that around 1989, we would have signed up immediately. And we kinda did, we just didn't know it.

I want us to resign werth. Werth deserve the money more than Howard does at this point.

Honestly, if Jonathan Sanchez takes a line drive to the head in the World Series, I don't think I'll be too upset about it.

The more appropriate ending would have been Howard flailing helplessly at strike 3.
Team's new nickname: The Deadwoods.

I don't really want the WS to not be watched, as a baseball fan, but at least I won't have to waste my Saturday nights watching it...and trolling on some other team's message board.

GBF- tough to applause after losing to Undertaker

Did anyone ever question what Victorino was doing so far off the base when he got doubled up? He wasn't even in the picture.

What the hell is "the machine" reference Wilson just made?

That guy is nucking futs, ain't he?

Now I can focus on the Flyers and season 3 of Deadwood. Oh, right. That starts in April.

I can't beleive we knocked out their game 2 starter after 2 innings and we lost. That is just not WS team material

They didn't deserve to win this series.

They couldn't hit when it counted. They couldn't catch the ball when it counted. They couldn't manage when it counted. They played bad, dumb, arrogant baseball at the worst time possible.

Don't blame one guy for this. This was a TEAM failure.

As for next year (which I am sure we will begin talking about in short order), the whole outfield needs to go.

This team has gotten old, in a hurry. They can't hit a good fastball anymore (which was always what they did best). That is the first indication of AGE. They have too many lefty's in their lineup (making it easy for the opposing manager to load up on lefty pitchers). They still are playing American League baseball; even though they can't hit the ball out of the park anymore. Them days are over, fellas.

Rube has retooled the starting staff in brilliant fashion. They are set there for years to come. But their everyday lineup needs to be re-tooled. It was going to need to be re-tooled no matter what happened in the post-season. This only cemented it.

If Rube and Cholly think this lineup can get it done, in tact, next year....they are dreaming and delusional. They aren't stupid. They are arrogant. But they aren't stupid.

And BTW, anybody see Mike Sweeney in the post-season? Maybe instead of sending up Little Ben Francisco to stand there with his thumb up his ass with a runner on 3rd, Sweeney might have been the better choice. No AB's for him is a crime. Not using him then, was ridiculous. At least Sweeney will likely put the ball in play. Ohh well. Cholly likes his 2 man bench. How many hits did those guys get in the post-season?

As a Braves fan I think it couldnt have happened to better team. LOL

They simply can't hit lefties and the SF pen was stacked with the. Gives us hope for next year when Dom replaces Werth. Utley looks very old suddenly. Time to be out to pasture.

Let the Charlie bashing, the J-Roll bashing, the Howard bashing, the Ibanez bashing, the Utley bashing, the Durbin bashing begin.

Did I miss anyone?

just watched the game on dvr, fast forwarded. what a fvcking way to choke away the season. oh, what could have been ...

The team looks beat up, but Good job anyway phillies ! We cant win everything, every year. It looked sloppy, but us real phans will stay behind you 100%. As to all you fans talkin smack all a sudden-- DONT BREAK UR ANKLES HOPPIN OFF THE BANDWAGON.

I would hope Werth was on my team if I was you

Ricky Bo wondering where Mike Sweeney was, too.

phlipper, you also forgot benfran bashing, for tonight at least

We also gotta work on our seeing eye singles, swinging bunt singles, hit our doubles in the gap more softly to allow runners to score, and getting our pitchers to induce more screaming line drive double plays.

As a baseball player I have always thought the very worse ending to a Baseball game is a called third strike. At least if you swing and miss, you've tried or even hit a weak pop or grounder, you've tried. But a called third strike when you have to defend your bat against any and all questionable pitches...it sucks big time.
Of course I do know that lack of timely hitting in the previous innings are the main reason for this painful, painful loss.
Thank you Phillies for another awesome year of baseball. I really mean that. You're my team forever!!!

And if I decide to root for a team in the World Series it's Texas....only because they have Cliff Lee ... and I will never root for a Pat Burrell team or at bat again.

They deserved to lose. Maybe somene should have told them in MLB playoffs teams don't just roll over because you had the best in season record.

Overpaid. Old. Tired. Complacent. Undermanaged. So many descriptives for that team in that disgusting series.

Worst part of all is this felt like the last chance for a long time. Everyones is going to be one year older, and Werth will be wearing another uniform

Good point, seatlephan. I suppose we'll get a RAJ bash or two also.

Kind of stunned to be honest.

This does hurt more than the loss to the Yankees, by far.

Also worries me a bit going forward because the team is what it is, other than Werth probably not being here. It's not like there are a couple of holes to fill that coming up with say, a Polanco or someone like that will really put a new look on things. Don't know that the pitchers will pitch significantly better. I don't think extra BP is going to help. Just have to hope (1) the team maintains a tough, chip on the shoulder attitude, (2) there are fewer injuries, and (3) that a couple of the players who had subpar seasons "regress to their mean". Gotta believe they are a better team than they showed in this series.

That said, I appreciate the past season. They had to be as frustrated as anyone at a number of points during the year and had a number of bad breaks, but they never quit. It's been a heckuva ride, and thanks, Phils. Wish the Phans at the stadium had thanked them

@EastFallowfield: Exactly. Giants got all the bounces in this series, yet it was still extremely close.

BTW, we wouldn't have beaten Texas anyway in the WS. And having to listen to the inane "Cliff Lee" stuff for 2 weeks (after he won the WS MVP), would get old after about 2 seconds.

You wanna watch a REAL offense? Watch that team. They are kinda what the Phils were about 4-5 years ago.

"Utley, Howard, Rollins, and Ibanez will all bounce back to career norms next year."

seriously? you really think a 38 going on 39 year old Ibanez is going to do anything next year?

Eh, nobody died.

The biggest disappointment here - and this was the most disappointing Phillies loss since they bowed out quietly to Washington in a rain-delayed chokefest during the next-to-last series of 2006 - was the way they backed down in the wake of the Utley/Sanchez confrontation. They had 2 on and 0 outs, with 4-5-6 coming up, and they seemed poised to spring, to turn that adrenaline into a big inning. It never happened, and the Phillies were never the same in this game.

Howard wasn't going to do anything with that last pitch from Wilson. And neither was anyone else. People are going to turn against Howard something fierce now, earmark him as the goat of the post-season, which is inevitable but unfair. Hey, he didn't pull his weight this time around. And neither, really, did anyone else.

I was thinking through most of the series that if the Phillies had to lose a post-season series, I didn't mind much if it was to San Francisco. But after the punk behavior of Lincecum and Sanchez, I really wanted to beat them. Too bad the Phils turned tail. They played tight after the first inning and lost a winnable game, a winnable series.

So yeah, this is disheartening because not only were the Phils outplayed, they were out-hearted. In a big way. And the final evidence for this was submitted at home, no less, something few would have foreseen. Makes you realize what it must have felt like in 1977, when they had the best team in baseball and coughed it up to an inferior team on home turf.

But every year is different. Life, and Phillies baseball, will go on.

EFF: Rays could have said a lot of the same things in 2008. Game-winning squibs.

I still have no problem with Howard leaving the bat on his shoulder. He'd have just swung over the top of it and everyone would be complaining that it was ball 4 and why did he swing at it.

I wonder if we can trade Oswalt and Halliday for more c-list prospects. I don't think we got enough AAA lifers from the Lee deal.

What I fear from this is the mouthbreather wing of Phillies Nation will pin this loss SOLELY on Howard's 9th inning K, conveniently ignoring: 1) his team leading .318 avg and .900 OPS for the series, 2) his double earlier that usually would have plated the go-ahead run except for the perfect carom to Torres and Rollins getting the stop sign, and 3) that the entire Phillies offense chased Sanchez in the THIRD FREAKING INNING and yet couldn't score another run.

But alas, I can see it already, flash forward to 2011 and the boo-birds have already targeted the 1st baseman with the big contract, who, oh yeah, helped give you lot of ingrates a World Championship!

The early text messages I'm getting from various people are already trending this way.

Let's keep this all in perspective, guys. This is still the Golden Age of Phillies Baseball. Anyone who thinks this team isn't going to be right there at the end next season doesn't know the game.

Werth is likely gone. And there will be other moves.

But they have a full season with Halladay, Oswalt and Hamels going three of every five games. Utley will be healthier. Howard will be healthier. Polly will get some power back in his swing.

I'd like to see Ibanez traded to retain Werth. I'd like to see a deeper bench. (See you, Ben Fran.)

The future is still bright, boys and girls.

Why won't anyone watch? There are baseball fans across the country who aren't Philly or Yankee fans.

Who ever wins it will be their first in 5 decades, that's a compelling series.

No NL three-peats since world war 2. To come this close in the wildcard era (7 wins to a pennant instead of zero like in the 40's) says a lot of good things.

Ruiz liner was it.

Jim: That's precisely what they'll talk about.

the way the team is hitting, combined with the way the rangers are playing, would have made a difficult WS at best for us. good luck to the giants because they'll need it ... andrus, young, cruz, hamilton, vlad -- those 5 all hit better than anyone on the phils this series. oh, and you can't forget about one clifton phifer as well

Bob,

With Halladay, Hamels and Oswalt, the Phils are still going to win a ton of games.

But, as we saw in this series, just having those 3 guys doesn't guarantee anything. Its a great start. But, the Phils lost because the Giants 25 guys beat the Phils 25 (or in reality, about 20) guys.

The Phils have about a 3 year window left, with "The Big 3" in their primes. Retooling the offense and bullpen around them, will determine whether the Phils win another WFC or have a few more of these type of disappointments in the next few years.

I fucking hate ryan Howard, The gutless pussy. I also hate Chase Utley, an arrogant creep who never comes through when it counts. Pussies. Ruben AMaro should be fired for trading away Cliff Lee. We knew it was a mistake. The Phillies GM didn't know it. he doesn't belong in the job. If they would ahve acquired and kept Halladay and Lee at teh 2009 trade deadline, we would be looking at three WS titles in a row. Fire this arrogant, smug Amaro prick now, and bring back Gillick or anybody that has the balls to stsnd up to the greedy owners.

What are the 2 biggest criticisms of our lineup? Too many strikeouts and not playing the game the right way.

Ben Francisco's AB managed to combine both of those faults which have been offered for the better part of 5 years into a stunning microcosm in just one single AB. Result: K looking, end of our season.

Bridoc10: I think the only GM brain damaged enough to give us anything but a bag of balls for Ibanez would be Ed Wade, and even then I think we might have to hit him over the head a couple times first.

We'd have to eat all but a million or two of Ibanez's contract to send him anywhere else...

Hardly worth it

We have been getting hosed by this team for 20 years. They owed us a legitimate run for the whole thing after all of the years of drek they put on the field.

I am so f-ing pissed that they choked away two winnable WS series in a row. F-U Phillies. I will neever spend another dime on tickets or merchandise again. F-U!!!!!!!

@bvst, while replaying befran's ab, it was clear he was swinging out of his shoes. all we need was a fly out, and he was trying to hit it to Camden for crissakes. i've been one the bigger raul bashers on this site, but after seeing ben's pathetic ab, i never want to see ben's sorry ass in red pinstripes ever again. good riddance

Why stop there, Doug?

J-Roll is pussy too. So's Victorino. And don't forget about Ibanez. BenFran's a pussy too. And how about that pussy, Durbin? They're all a bunch of pussies, and this team of freakin' pussies don't deserve the loyal Phillies fans who stick behind their team and express nothing but love for them no matter what.

jim's right. Ingrates is an accurate term.

I f-ing hate your guts. I hope you die. F-U
Ryan Howard is an overpaid pussy n word.

Cut Doug some slack... choking on your own bile can make a person a mite testy

The 08 Rays only won one game, and were outscored by 9 or 10 runs in those 5 games.

The 10 Giants scored one less run than the Phils, so luck did seem to play more of a part in this one.

Never mind that last post.

Take your stupidity elsewhere Dougie

Take it easy, Doug. Take your racist rants elsewhere.

Is it your money, Mike? Ownership has been printing money since 2007. They can afford it.

Thanks for the memories, Raul. I'd rather see an outfield of Brown, Victorino and Werth.

Stay classy, Doug Bowker!

I think there are even Phillies trolls on this site now.

Hat tip to the Giants. They deserved to win.

As for the Phils, their play was disappointing but not surprising to anyone who has followed this team. Every fan knew the offense that disappeared in the middle of the season and miraculously returned at the end might again disappear.

My biggest disappointment is that this team, lauded for their experience and professional approach, seemed tight from game one. It showed, not only at the plate, but in the field. One wonders why.

The famous Phillies swagger and confidence was rarely in evidence. For me, the heart of the defeat lies there.

I'm honestly shocked that they lost. I figured if they got the series back to Philly, it was a lock.

Again, credit to the Giants. They fell behind 2-0 and the crowd was going crazy and they came right back and tied it up. They showed a lot of resilience.

And in case people haven't noticed: (1) the Phillies "lousy" offense scored the 2nd most runs in the NL this year despte sustaining numerous injuries, (2) the Giants have the best pitching in baseball.

Maybe those of you who are hand-wringing, Debby Downer ingrates should take stock of the fact that this was the best team in the NL next year, and is poised to continue this run for a few more years at least.

EFF: No question. Just saying that stuff is always part of it. But you're right - statistically, they were equal, with the Phils actually better than the Giants in a couple of categories.

I think they played tight because they expected so much of themselves, and when they got off on the wrong foot, they started feeling tight and maybe started pressing. I don't know this, but it's my theory.

Kudos to Bruce Bochy for throwing lefthander after lefthander against this team.

I still can't believe it was a Juan Uribe home run that ended it. Sheesh.

If Pat Burrell ends up with a second ring, Amaro should commit suicide. Remember, everybody acts like Philly fans are crazy, except we were the only ones that knew that trading Lee away was a mistake.

I just feel bad for guys like Halladay and Sweeny...They are the ones who really deserve to go to and win a WS...not the scrub-jock Giants

One thing we can't lose in all of this...

Most teams would have never even made the playoffs, with all the adversity the team faced this year.

Many of the issues we saw in this series, plagued them most of the year. Hell, this team hasn't hit with RISP in 3 or 4 years (they were horrible in 2008, but that is all forgotten because they won the thing).

Who had a good year offensively? Ruiz? Polly for half a season?

Oswalt was terrific. Halladay was better then advertised. Hamels should have won 20, with the way he pitched. Moyer and Kendrick won 20 games between them. Lidge rebounded and had a very solid year. Madson was strong. Contreras was up and down, but really good at the end when it counted.

The pitching held up its end. The offense and defense did not.

The most disappointing thing for me, was the lack of defense the team played in this series. Several "makeable" plays were not made. In a low scoring series, those matter more. The outfield defense was a issue much of the year. The infield defense was a issue in the playoffs.

Just frustrating when the NL was as weak in 2010 as it ever will be and you had everything lined up perfectly for you (rested pitchers; home field, inferior opponents), that you picked this time to lay an egg. SF didn't play all that well either. Just a little better here and there. And a LOT better in depth; which ended up being a big factor in this series.


Actually, the top of the second was basically two tough-luck runs.

Doug Bowker: Please go away.

I apologize to other fans who see me at my worst. i am a bit drunk, and seriously pissed at this mess.

Werth had a good season and postseason.

Not to quibble, but they were the best team in the NL THIS year and they just crapped all over themselves

The hitting is too inconsistent to win championships now... and they aren't getting any younger.

97 wins and no WS...they should have just went in as the wild card team

Ryan Madson being interviewed in the locker room. Mike Sweeney still in uniform, in background, at his locker alone, looking very very depressed.

"Actually, the top of the second was basically two tough-luck runs."

They had three hits in the inning, a good bunt, ran the bases well, and had a third run thrown out at the plate.

And that was after Oswalt looked dominating in the first inning and the crowd was worked into a frenzy.

Give the Giants some credit.

How can a team that alkready won a ws choke?


As much grief as the poster clout seems to get, he is the only one I have seen so far to suggest that Sweeney should have been at the plate rathe than Francisco. Mike Sweeney is a career contact/low strikeout hitter who had a much better chance of poutting the ball into play than a hacker like Francisco.

I'd just like to thank our beloved Phils for a memorable season! I never thought we'd lose to a team like the Giants (I don't think they are very good) but I'll root for them they are the NL team and my wife is a Cali gal. WE will be back next year no doubt. Our run is far for over. Cant wait to be back at CBP next year watchin the Phils with a Tony Lukes in one hand and an order of Chickie and Petes Fries in another. Lets Go Phils...2011

It was super sad to see Sweeney like that. Of all the decisions Charlie made, the one I'd like to take back is never using Sweeney. Guy deserved a chance in the LCS. And he did have a single in the DS off Aroldis.

He will apparently be interviewed, coming up on Comcast SportsNet postgame. So will Ibanez, Rollins, and someone else (forgot who).

I could have done without hearing Cody Ross' interview, however. That's why I turned to Comcast Sportsnet instead of MLBNetwork or leaving it on Fox.

Lots of us said we wanted Sweeney up instead of BenFran, KoolEarl.

Hope they take the hitting coach hire seriously.

I was okay with Francisco at the plate. He had been hitting lefthanders well and the called third strike was a ball.

Sweeney is one of the few who can say he didn't fail in the post season...


Why he wasn't given a chance instead of Francisco is unfathomable. It's one of the many Manuel failings in managing this series. I counted three seperate times in the Giant series alone when a little small ball would have made the difference.He seems to think its a crime to have anyone bunt that's batting higher than 8th in the lineup. You could tell right from the first few innings of game one that it would be a close series. Those little things make a difference.

The Phillies looked like seasoned pros to me in this series (to their advantage) and at the same time old (to their disadvantage). Pitching was great....clutch hitting was abominable. But this is basically the team we will have next year except substitute Brown for Werth. Sorry but I think that is not quite as good. However I think it will still be good enough to be a serious contender. Unlike last season's world series loss, this does feel a little bit like the end of an era of greatness. I hope I am totally wrong.

Mike Sweeney never even got on the field in the post-season.

Hard to fathom.


How many pinch-hits did we get in the post-season? How many hits did guys like Renteria, Fontenot, Fat Ass Panda and Rowand get for the Giants?

Phlipper: Giants played a great series. But that inning (third inning), seeing-eye single that misses Utley's glove and body, later a swinging bunt and tough play at first. Tough luck inning.

Wow, nothing like four postseason trips, a WS win, a WS loss, and three NLCS trips to bring out the racist idiot in someone. So Ryan Howard is just fine as a black human being, so long as the Phillies win the WS, but he's subhuman if they come up short? Interesting. I hope Doug Bowker holds himself to that same high standard in how own life.

Oh man, Mike Sweeney crying. That's hard to watch.

GBrett,

That's right about Sweeney getting a hit off of Chapman. I had forgotten about that.

He was brought here, because he had experience hitting off of the bench (which is what DH's do on a daily basis) and he has always been a quality hitter.

And he never sees the field in the NLCS.

Maybe if his name had been "Dobbs", he would have gotten some swings (if only we had him on the roster, he would have jacked one in this series).

It's not so much on Howard as it is on our whole feast-or-famine, highly streaky offense.

You know what, I take itback. The Giants were better than the Phils, but certainly not great. Their pitching didn't exactly set the world on fire. Sanchez gone after two and the Phils still manage to blow Game 6.

if utley did not act like a smart ass and toss the ball back to sanchez, the incident is avoided.. sanchez probably faces one more batter and maybe we have a better chance at scoring some runs... sanchez would have easier to hit off of - than affeldt and the others.

victorio must have ( adhd)- i mean he was impatient when bumgarden pitched - he was wild, yet victorino swings at ball - on the ground - grounds meekly out to the pitcher. we won;t even talk about why he was so far off the bag in the 8th when ruiz lined out.. ( he cost a few runs for sure)


Seriously, Charlie Rube never using Sweeney was a huge mistake. I know the players love him, but if he were a general, he would have graduated dead last from the Point in tactics.....

People who have watched baseball long enough to have observed the Braves and Yankees fail to advance to the World Series more often than not during their many years of post-season play, should know just how hard it is to make it to that point, no matter what star power or pitching staff or won-lost record you have. It just doesn't always pan out that way. I say, be grateful for the years when it did for the Phillies, because it was never a given that was going to ever happen.

Of course it's also the case that our rotation of aces underperformed. Not much dominant pitching from any of them.

I hope Howard packs on the pounds again...I'd much rather see him as a 300 lb power hitter than what the f**k ever he is now

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