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Friday, September 24, 2010


Knuckle Ball = Season Over.

This game feels like a loss.

JW is really banging out the threads today...

From the last thread:

Tulo's hot hitting to end the season will probably earn him the Gold Glove for the year. Seems absurd, but you rarely find guys win a GG who aren't also good offensively. For a while in the mid-00s, Adam Everett was the best defensive SS in the world, but never sniffed the conversation for Gold Glove, because voters only give it to guys who are good offensive players too.

Jimmy is probably a better defender, but he just didn't play enough games this year, and Tulo is pretty good anyway.

Jack: Yeah, it's hard to argue with Tulo. Jimmy may be better, but it would only be by degrees this year.

Hopefully TBA will be Vance Worley-derbish, since Phils will have clinched by that game.

(from the last thread)

JasonTp - that was me talking about From the Boot's Chicken Cutlet Italiano. Glad you enjoyed. It's a once a week staple for me anymore. I just can't help myself, it's THAT good. and for dinner i love their garlic rolls.

can't wait to see FG's starting rotation piece.

The GG is really the "best defender who is also a good hitter" award.

I was shocked when Bourn won it for this reason. Even last year, his offense wasnt all that great.

When you see Abreu win one or loses a bit of its legitimacy.

Anybody seen Sophist? I feel a distinct lack of statistical overload and I need my fix.

NEPP: Got help today.

****NEPP: Got help today.****

Ahh...and here I was super impressed. So we officially have a junior correspondent now? Good deal.

If you missed it, Doug Glanville has a nice article over at espn:

He talks about the dog days and wearing out down the stretch.

Made me think of the Phils September record under Charlie, and ponder just "how" he gets so much out of his players in September.

JW, are you suggesting that your performance today has been enhanced? Do we need to consider an asterisk?

****Anybody seen Sophist? I feel a distinct lack of statistical overload and I need my fix.****

Agreed...he does disappear for a week or two occasionally so its not unprecedented.

I am a pretty avid follower of Cameron's work and I have never heard of him interviewing for any GM position. Thinking he has something against the Phillies is confirmation bias. Whats more likely:

A)national writer is biased against you favorite team
B)you are more sensitive to criticisms of your favorite team

And he's been touting the Twins hard all year. So anyone who claims a bias a towards SABR teams is missing the point.

No surprise on JRoll but I am surprised the Phils got rid of Bobock today. What if something happens to Valdez tonight or tomorrow? Do they press JRoll into emergency service?

Kind of a headscratcher.

J-Roll to start Sunday. Available to pinch hit until then.

Why get rid of anyone period unless there is something going on that we dont know about. Its not as if we have any roster constraints.

While I'd LOVE to see Manuel get MOY and definitely think he deserves it, he'll eventually be enshrined on the Phillies Wall of Fame (and possibly be elected Mayor of Philadelphia), and that's good enough for me.

I think JW's point about Exxon's reliability is an excellent one. That said, the idea of J-Roll bringing his clutch swagger back into the mix (batting 7th) really excites me. He's a special player.

I thought this Squonkism was really insightful:

"Kentucky Joe is who he is, and his number can be explained because Kentucky Jow is who he is."

Bay Slugga's "one stat to rule them all" quip earns my vote for best literary turn of phrase in today's early voting.

phil - while i agree as a whole, i disagree on Cameron. i genuinely believe he has some bias against the Phils. he rails (needlessly) on Philies players, manager, front office, mascot (ok, making that one up, but i bet he hates the phanatic), ball girls (deservedly so), and ownership. worst of all he does it w/ attitude, and while i see him critisize some other clubs, it's not as frequest or with as much open disdain as it is w/ the Phillies.

someone back me up on this.

and how is his touting the Twins proof to the contrary?

I can't believe how much attention Cameron has garnered today (and yesterday, etc....). Did it ever occur that perhaps he spews this swill just to make a name for himself and get people talking about him?

In today's age of news being much less discussed than opinion, it's funny that people still get so up in arms about anyone just trying to stir the pot. clout has made an entire legend of himself on this site via the same m.o. Colin Cowherd is the king. And the reactions is precisely what will have them doing it over and over again. Yet they still get said reaction, time and time again. Amazing.

BTW, I effing HATE the Mets. Probably more than anything else, ever, with the only exception being Notre Dame football. That said, if given a national platform or outlet to regularly "analyze" mlb, you can damn well bet that I'll devalue the Mets team, antagonize their fanbase and generally dismiss them no matter how good they may become. And when their fans react with vitriol and call me names, I'll continue to do it, and they'll keep reading. And I won't think twice before cashing the check, either.

Just sayin'.

By the way, did anyone link to this article on Hamels's mechanical improvements this season? Written by a former scout.

matt: yea dude good call, I will definitely be in there again, as its minutes away from my office.

re: JWs help

Are they real names of posters or just comcast interns?

I only inquire so I know how to direct my disgust for the name "Wil-Val".

Given the knuckleballer on the hill, i'd have trotted out something like this:

C- Schneider
1B- Sweeney
2B- Valdez
3B- Dobbs
SS- Bocock
LF- Gload
CF- Francisco
RF- Mayberry

"A)national writer is biased against you favorite team
B)you are more sensitive to criticisms of your favorite team"
C)He does have some irrational bias.

And I don't think B is a possibility considering all of the chit that the Phillies get on this site alone.

Good move having Schneider leadoff...with his speed, every single is a double or triple easily.

Is his name pronounce Jee, or with a soft G? (sorry, phoenetics are failing me here)

Phils should sign Charlie Hough and have him start Game 1 of every playoff series, since prevailing wisdom is that a knuckleballer is unbeatable and moreover screws up a batter's timing for weeks on end. True story: Matt originally had it as "Willie V." I changed it to "Wil-Val." I stand by that decision.



~coughs again~

I was at the game in August where the Dickey one hit the Phils. My daughter and I were on an overnight to NYC before she started college. What an awful evening! Aside from the game, I didn't much like Citi Field, the seats were ridiculously overpriced (even though I got them below face value on Stub Hub), and the food was lousy. Wedon't need to talk about the actual game. I am looking for 7 run first inning that knocks him out early.

On the other hand, we did have a very nice day Saturday cruising around New York. says that Pat Misch is pitching Sunday for the Mets not Pelfrey.

BTW, I effing HATE the Mets. Probably more than anything else, ever, with the only exception being Notre Dame football. That said, if given a national platform or outlet to regularly "analyze" mlb, you can damn well bet that I'll devalue the Mets team, antagonize their fanbase and generally dismiss them no matter how good they may become. And when their fans react with vitriol and call me names, I'll continue to do it, and they'll keep reading. And I won't think twice before cashing the check, either.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: Willard Preacher | Friday, September 24, 2010 at 04:47 PM

See Stark, Jayson

If we lose any of these games, what are the odds of some idiot Mets troll coming here to brag...ignoring the fact that his team has been eliminated already.

I finally got my post season tickets. I was about to disembowel the UPS man. Anyway, I got AWESOME seats for game 2 of the WS. Let's go, Phillies. I sooooo wanna use them!

NEPP - didn't that just happen? see Ike, I like.

How am I bragging exactly? I thought my comparison was apt and somewhat amusing. Willard described JS to a tee :)

ike, i was kidding. but i DID properly identify you as a mets fan.

I just think it's funny that everyone has this expectation that any "analysis" or talking heads be objective anymore. That hasn't been the case in a very, very long time, and actually, ratings, site hits, etc. fully support the notion that polarization is EXACTLY what people want (at least it generates the most interest, hence the most money).

The only real way to discourage "Joe Blow Hates My Team" is to absolutely ignore him. Taking the other side and debating is what's putting his kids through college.

Every regular should sit tonight to avoid getting their swings screwed up.

willard - good advice. i just can't follow it. when i see a blow hard blowing hard i feel the need to rant/rave. always have, always will. funny b/c i'm extremely laid back for the rest of my life.

enjoy the games this weekend. i'm off to DC to visit fam. i doubt the phils will be on down there. go phils!!

I've lived in Philly for 5+ years now though (used to post under RPIazza31).

Just try to contain yourselves when a Met goes down with an injury on the field this weekend.

Of course I Like Ike is a Mets fan.

Given the name there are only three likely options. Eisenhower couldn't hit a curve ball and Turner could only hit Tina.

That leaves Davis.

Remember back in March when we were all clamoring for this series with the Mets, expecting that it would mean the division?

Good bet the Phils will clinch this weekend, so in a way, it will.

Every regular will slam the knuckle ball tonight and knock out the starting pitcher by the third inning.

From Tim Kurkjian:

In that 5-3 win, the Phillies knocked out Braves starter Mike Minor in the third inning, the seventh straight game that an opposing starting pitcher has failed to go five innings against the Phillies. That tied a record set by the New York Giants in July 1949 and the Phils in September 2006.

With Knuckleballers being Kryptonite to this lineup I have a hard time seeing that record extended.

JW, no offense, but Willie V and Wil-Val just don't work for me.

"Exxon" is the slickest nickname.

"The Human Oil Spill" works too, but not like Exxon.

The Mutts are really playing for nothing tonight. Not even as spoilers. Probably won't try to save their manager or GM. Too early to think about next year except for rookies and call-ups. Personal pride is about all. This shouldn't be close.

Leave it to a Mets fan to be a fan of such a destructive hurricane.

Lincoln, I think that streak was broken by Tommy Hanson anyway.

"Setting aside all the context that made the Phillies need Oswalt in the first place, this has to be seen as a good move for their franchise. They got a quality pitcher at a below market price without putting the long term future of the franchise in danger. Kudos to Ruben Amaro for this deal."

"Probably the best all-around player in baseball, Utley is a true superstar. He’s a +7 win player who does everything well. There are legitimately no flaws in his game. The only reason he’s even this low is his age, as he’ll be 34 when the remainder of the three years on his contract are up. Second baseman generally don’t last much past their mid-30s, and Utley’s body is showing some signs of wear and tear, even if it hasn’t affected his play on the field yet. Still, over those next three seasons, he’s going to be extremely valuable, signed to a deal that pays him about half of what he’s actually worth. He’s the real franchise player in Philadelphia."

"The guy that most people consider the best prospect left in the minors, Brown is also the guy that was famously off-limits in the Roy Halladay trade. When your organization won’t trade you, straight up, for the best pitcher in baseball (who is signing a three year, below market deal as part of the trade, no less), you’ve got quite a bit of value. There’s a pretty good chance that Brown could be a solid major league player tomorrow, and his physical size and abilities give him serious upside. Young power hitters who can also handle themselves on defense are pretty rare and highly coveted."

Dave Cameron has repeatedly been saying that the Phillies should NOT be favored to win the NL right now, but avoids the question of who is.

Do all the sportsbooks have it wrong?

Dave Cameron, I'm guessing, is getting off on the fact that Beerleaguer is spending so much time talking about him.

I'm never one to suggest a topic should be avoided, but we've certainly beaten this horse to death.

Is anyone else just a tiny bit sad at how irrelevant this weekend's series is? Part of me hates the fact that the Mets are so awful. They can't even really blame injuries this year. They really just can't play baseball very well. And at the payroll they have, I'd rather be the Pirates!

What a shame. It started as a great rivalry back in 2007 ("Team to beat") and now all we can do is pity them.

I agree CJ. Part of the joy of watching Phils-Mets is the pure hatred from some fans. It was never a Sox-Yanks rivalry, but I think that made it seem even harsher, especially from NY's point of view. If one side or the other isn't good (see Met fan, I took the high road, I named no names), it just isn't fun.

CJ, silly comment. No series is irrelevant until the Phils have locked up home field adv.

CJ, since we have fat Joe and KK going this weekend, I have absolutely no problems with how irrelevant this series is.

I agree as well, CJ. I am in North Jersey with its share of annoying Mets fans and it's usually a lot of fun. Still, I'd much rather be in this situation than risk losing to the Mets in a big game. Kind of like playing craps -- I love to play, except if I lose.

(from previous thread)

@bap: my point in saying blanton vs cain or sanchez is precisely that there's no telling how their rotation shakes out after the nlds. whichever way you spin it, it's the one matchup (our solid #4 vs any of their starters) where we'd be at a disadvantage. i'd rather play the giants in a five-game series and only throw H20 at 'em. no one else in the NL worries me.

but do you really think zito is still their #4? i know he's been better lately, but the way bumgarner's going, zito looks to me like an $18M long reliever come playoff time. yes, he's a veteran, but the kid is scorching-good. (really matter for the giants blog)

awh: Fair enough. This game feels like a loss. But you know what I mean. It means *nothing* to the Mets. And even if the Phils get swept (and this series feels like a sweep), we still have a stranglehold on the best record in the league.

Imagine what type of roster the Giants could have assembled if they were stuck with Zito & Rowand (and to a lesser extent Edgar Renteria's $10 million)

Those 3 players are getting $42.1 million in salary in 2010. That's good for 43.75% of their payroll.

Imagine what they'd be if they had that to invest in good players or at least players werth that type of money.

PalyChris: We'd have up to 6 games of H2O (vs. Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez) and one game of Blanton (3.68 ERA in last 13 starts) vs. either Zito (4.82 ERA in last 17 starts) or a rookie, Baumgarner (3.44 ERA last 11 starts).

There's simply not that great of an advantage in that one game... and a bigger advantage in the other six for the Phils.

NEPP, don't know if that was a Freudian slip, but it was a good one.

I don't think Brian Sabean is werth that much, so if they didn't have Zito + Rowand, I'm sure he would have signed a couple of other albatros guy. The fact that the Giants didn't pick up a Bautista type bat at the deadline is a travesty (not for the Phils of course).

Speaking of the Giants and Jayson Werth... it's a marriage that makes a whole lot of sense for next season.

NEPP - Sabean really has coasted off his earlier success when the Giants went to the playoffs 4 of the first 7 years he was the GM there. Haven't bean back to the playoffs since '03.

By the way - Sabean's own bio says "also brought future Hall of Famers Omar Vizquel to San Francisco in 2005 and Johnson in 2008, while adding two-time Gold Glove catcher Bengie Molina in 2007, Gold Glove outfielder Aaron Rowand in 2008 and five-time National League All-Star Edgar Renteria this winter."

It isn't that Sabean hasn't tried either to draw a big bat to SF since Bonds left. He has tried every offseason and come up short for several reasons (money, years, not wanting to play in SF or CA, effect of AT&T Park on hitters, a mediocre team, etc)

These Chapman Bros, that one looks fresh out of the joint.

that's true, cj. though i don't think all three of our top guys are a mortal lock against theirs (cain's been untouchable lately; lincecum's nearly got his mojo back; and will we score ANY runs against sanchez?)

i trust we'll find a way to win, even if it means getting to their (tough) bullpen and winning late. i love our team in tight games.

but the giants worry me: not only their pitching but their whole young-excited-team-with-nothing-to-lose vibe. and my gut tells me pat the bat will hit the ball far if he plays in philly in october.

The paparazzi caught Joe Blanton stocking up at the Entemanns Factory Discount Store for this big weekend.

and yeah, werth is such a good fit for them it's ridiculous. with that rotation, that closer, with torres back in center...add werth and they can win 100 next year. (but phils win 104.)

KY Joe, the Donut eating stepchild of the Phils pitching staff.

Werth would get exactly zero pitches to hit in that lineup. He'd be crazy to go to SF versus Boston or NYY.

Oh no - whats going to screw up Vic's swing more? Seeing a knuckler or hitting a lead off HR?

Can't hit a knuckle baller?

Considering how Vic has looked the last 2 games, how this pitcher has baffled the Phillies whenever he has faced them, and how the Phillies generally look pathetic the first time through the order, that was a rather improbable beginning.

BAP, didn't the Phils mash this guy once this year?

This series feels like a sweep.

Since when did Howard get infected with Wil-Val Disease?

Interesting to see if Vic stays in the leadoff spot come playoff time if JRoll is back on Sunday and has a chance to start for a week.

Spitz: Yeah, they mashed him once & got completely shut down twice. For knuckleball pitchers, it tends to be feast or famine.

MG, Charlie has already said that Vic will stay in the leadoff spot and JRoll will hit lower in the lineup. I wonder if that will be 5, 6, or 7.

Bautista just hit #51. And the Braves are down 1-0 on a Dunn HR.

1-0 Nats.

I just realized. Vic hit RH against the RHP. Paid off.

Good job, Vic.

Vic again

Good job on the bunt by Joe. Set up for the RBI hit by Vic.

Did vic hit from the right side again?

Met fans, if any are watching, must be ecstatic to see Vic halfway to the cycle already. They love him up there.

Mets fans in this area are as classy as they are delusional. My neighbor (about 4 bills) and his wife (Blantonesqe in body shape) are squeezed into their ancient fading and peeling Leiter (her) and Beltran jerseys heading out for a night on the town and they stopped me on the way to the door to inform me what kind of "losers" the Phils fans are tailgating before the game and how the Phils should not count on closing things out this weekend because the Mets "aint goin' out like that". I wanted to say something sh!tty but the kid and the missus were waiting for me in the foyer.

Vic's batting right-handed tonight? I wonder if that's a knuckleball-related strategy or if he's just experimenting with being a full-time right-handed hitter.

Tbag and Wheels informed that it was a "knuckleball-related strategy". Its his natural side and wait on it a little longer. Its working.

*can* wait on it longer. Go Vic.

Mets announcers talking Manager of the Year, and do mention Charlie. But Darling says he'll suffer because his team is too good.


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