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Monday, August 23, 2010


And the lineup news is no Polanco tonight, for those who weren't in the previous thread.

In other news, Sutter has been added to the 40 man and could be ready as a Sept callup to fortify the backend of the pen...

Elin Nordegren is single again, ftw. I will be off of beerleaguer for the next few weeks trying my best to court her and her newly found $400 million dollars. When I return, successfully, I will fund the "Cliff Lee back to the Phillies" foundation.

~"Godspeed, Goodspeed"

Phils record in 2010 in games started by Joe Blanton where they score fewer than 5?

0 -7

I hope they score more than 5 tonight.

no name fame. It's $750 million.

Get your facts straight.

Also, you do not need to use the dollar sign [$] and type out the word "dollars" to denote the same amount of money.

It is redundant.

The way to do it"

$750 Million.

750 million dollars.

Either is correct.

Maybe Sutter can infect the young'ns with 'splitteritis'.

Elin should have gone the Anna Benson route of making a threat of sleeping with all of Tiger's co-workers and then doing it with half the PGA tour...that'd made for some interesting television.

Johnny Damon says he's not inclined to go back to Boston

If we got Cliff Lee back, how would we incorporate KK into the rotation? Can't lose him, he's too valuable. I just don't see it happening.

Aren't we due for a bad Blanton outing tonight? Just trying to set my expectations appropriately.

"Oil spill is swinging a good bat, so why not?"

Please, when referring to Wilson Valdez, kindly do it in the proper form. Please capitalize his nicknames out of respect and appreciation for his fine effort this season and yesterday.

Oil Spill

are both acceptable so long as caps are used.

Fatalotti, I guess we'll just have to let KY Joe go.

Boston is probably just blocking the Yankees.

Does a "minor league pitching consultant" get to use binoculars?

Fatalotti, I actually had an unrealistic fantasy about that - Cliff Lee liked it so much here in Philly that he actually signs only a 3 year deal just so he can come back.

Phils rotation next season:


"In my mind, it will almost certainly be KK [as the 5th starter in 2011]." -NEPP

I like you, NEPP, but I hope you're wrong on this one. I think this KK experiment was a "fool me once, fool me twice" scenario, where we've been fooled twice. KK pitched above his skills in 2008, then was sent down. He's doing the same this year. When I see KK's name as the starting pitcher, I now get that same intestinal queasy feeling that I get in the eighth inning with a one run lead and Cholly has Lidge warming up for the ninth. I think Rube will find some reclamation projects to bring to the 2011 spring training to vie for the fifth slot in the rotation to replace KK.

awh: are you an English teacher?

I say WGAS outduels Kendrick for the 5th position in the rotation coming out of Clearwater.....

Lake Fred...who else will be around? Other than Rube striking gold on a reclaim project, KK will be seen as a viable option. Worley will be the top "emergency call up" guy and that's how it will be. There wont be any money for another solution. As a 5th starter, KK is a fairly decent option.

I sympathize with the posters who object to Kendrick on aesthetic grounds. I hate slow workers, love fast-working pitchers.

Kendrick is never going to amount to much until he learns to throw strikes consistently. His strike/ball ratio in the first 2 innings vs. the Nats was 1:1 and it needs to be about 2:1 (or at least 3:2) to get by with his stuff.

His sinker inside to lefties shows some promise, but he still doesn't have consistent command of it.

Clearly he's a work in progress and at age 25 you can't give up on him. But until his ability to throw quality strikes improves, he'll never be more than an inconsistent 5th starter.

That said, he's better than the 5th starter of most of the other MLB contenders.

KK has had 3 poor outings in a row...hardly the end of the world. He's still got pretty good numbers on the year (for a 5th starter). Even if you look at his 2nd half split, he's still posting acceptable numbers for a 5th starter.

He's a 5th starter...he's gonna have runs like this, it goes with the territory.

awh, I actually had a dream about that a while back, right after we acquired Oswalt. Maybe Lee takes a 3 year, $54 M contract (yeah right). If that were the rotation next year, we'd be so strapped for cash, the 5th starter would probably just be a pitching machine. Set it on curveballs and go enjoy your evening.

LF, I only get queasy looking at KK's name when it's a team that he has historically not done well against.

I.e.: KK against the Cards, Giants or Braves is just fine.

Lake Fred: On the last thread you said major league teams should be allowed to keep their finances private. What about major league teams that are subsidized by public tax money?

****I hate slow workers, love fast-working pitchers.

Watching Trachsel pitch was probably the most excruciating experience any baseball fan can be put through...the routine 3.5-4.0 hr start with him on the mound.

Theory: KK is going through a dead arm period right now...that would explain the sudden hitting of the wall he is going through in August (as evidenced by his .341 BAA for the month)

Fatalotti, WGAS means exactly that.

With those 4 at the top of your rotation, you could run a single cell amoeba out on the mound once every 5 days, and on this team with this offense you'd probably still win 100 games.

I wish some of the guys that are so vehemently opposed to Kendrick would post their expectations of a 5th starter.

My 5th starter expectations: 5-6 innings every 5th day and an ERA under 5...anything more than that is gravy.

"That said, he's better than the 5th starter of most of the other MLB contenders."


NEPP: "KK has had 3 poor outings in a row."

Before the Nats game, KK held the Mets to 1 run in 6 2/3 IP.

Weitzel's write-up on Sutter neglects to mention that he's an honest-to-goodness cy young trophy winner. I'm struggling to name another one who's working as a 'minor league instructor' in a garden spot like Reading, PA. Of course, he stole that Cy Young from JR Richard who was so damn good for a brief moment in time, it was almost unfair.

Also, KK had a good outing in his start before the Nats game where he went 6.2 IP against the Mets, giving up 1 run, walking 1, and striking out 4.

****Before the Nats game, KK held the Mets to 1 run in 6 2/3 IP.****

Oops, I was just looking at his splits for 7 days, 14 days, 21 seemed like he simply hit a rough patch...I didnt check his game log specifically.

FWIW, he's been fine overall on the season.

@awh -- it would be helpful if you just helped JW publish a BL style-guide thank you.

Omitted from the big Pirates debate earlier today: Jack Wilson was considered one of the best defensive shortstops in baseball. Talking about him in terms of offense is misleading.

I get much queasier when Big Joe starts then when KK pitches. And who is this magical 5th starter that is much better than KK?

Just because KK is good for a 5th starter, does not make him a good pitcher. Most 5th starters are absolutely atrocious. KK is not absolutely atrocious all the time, and he has the ability to throw a good game. I don't mind having him on the team. Does that mean I should stop hoping he stops having sh!tty outings like he's had against the Nats? KK has lots of room for improvement. Fortunately for the Phillies, they aren't saddled with a pitcher who is worse than KK, since there are plenty.

Of course, his defense has also gone downhill this maybe the Pirates dumped him at the right time.

I prefer a fifth starter who gets as few starts as possible. I also prefer if they have a .222 batting average and can hit a homer now and then so at least you have a semi-complete lineup for the 4-6 innings they last.

By the by, Brett Myers has only really had one bad outing all season, and he's gone 6 IP or more in every start this year. I think he's the only pitcher who can claim such a feat. Unfortunately for Halladay, he's one botched double play ball by Greg Dobbs from being part of that exclusive club.

Jack Wilson was a terrific defender and sporadic hitter. Combined with Freddy Sanchez, they were possibly the best (or most entertaining) DP combo I ever saw. Just about the only thing worth paying to see most nights at PNC.

Hugh Mulcahy, perhaps you'd like Carlos Zambrano as your fifth starter. He seems to have the traits you seek.

Wonder if they signed Sutter to try and help them turn some of their minor league bullpen arms like Worley, Stutes, etc into solutions for next given that they are likely to have a couple of outings in spring training?

Last real impact guy the Phils developed out who became a reliever was Madson and the only other guy I can think of that past few years who was draft/developed by the Phils who gave them a meaningful contribution from the pen was Gas Can. Missing anyone else in the past 3-4 years?

Fatalotti - he'd be perfect, provided he doesn't cost $19mm per.

awh, didn't KK get bashed pretty good by the Cards on national TV a few weeks back?

"he'd be perfect, provided he doesn't cost $19mm per."
That and if he volunteers for electroshock therapy.

I think Blanton is the definition of a good 5th starter. KK is the definition of an average 5th starter. Of course, when you have 2 legitimate aces and Cole Hamels, two decent 5th starters is all you really need. If your top 3 win 2 out of every 3 and your other two guys(I think referring to Blanton and KK as YOTG is acceptable) can go 500, you are playing 600 baseball. That is 23-16 which gets you to 93 wins and I would think, in the playoffs where your top 3 will be the ones pitching anyway. JMO...

Lake Fred, to the tune of three homeruns and 7 runs. The worst part, he allowed Pujols to think that he can hit the Phillies, which up until that point, we had him pretty well suckered. /sigh

Randy Miller tweets:

Polanco Polanco not playing tonight due to elbow soreness. "I don't want to make a big deal of it," skipper Charlie Manuel said.

"Lake Fred: On the last thread you said major league teams should be allowed to keep their finances private. What about major league teams that are subsidized by public tax money?"

clout, public money for stadiums is usually rationalized for money that will be spent in the area, not whether the entities that utilize the stadiums are profitable or not. I would think that a sports team's financial information is shared with the government entities involved in stadium projects, but I don't think the financials need to be displayed on the front (or back) pages of the Philly Daily News. Do you think every private enterprise utilizing public facilities publicize their financials? This would include the parking lots, Bull's BBQ, etc.

This country treasures its privacy for everything, medical records, a woman's right to choose, personal incomes, etc. Why should someone steal the Pirate's financial information and then plaster it all over the internet? There are proper ways to get this information, but I think the way the Pirate's information was disclosed is wrong.

And our backup in the infield tonight if Polanco isn't capable of playing is....????

Kendrick is 32-20 as a major league pitcher. What record would some of you like him to have? 42-10? 51-1?

He is EXACTLY what most teams are looking for in a bottom rotation starter. He's cheap and he wins games. End of story. Is he Roy Halladay? No. Is he better then most major league 5th starters? Yep. He has more wins then both Hamels and Blanton this year (and has started fewer games). Again, what do you want?

Greg Dobbs is now a sterling 2-24 at Lehigh Valley this year. Must be the lighting in the AAA ballparks.

Myers is either going to be great tonight, or he will be so excitable that he will be all over the place and get bombed. I kinda expect the latter.

BTW, on Sutter coming on board...

I'd look for him to latch himself to guys like Mathieson and DeFratus and see if he can teach them the split-finger fastball.

Both have late-inning potential, with big arms.

Good hire, if he can teach that pitch.

I introduce Joe Torre, sore loser extrordinaire.

Torre says callups can create 'unfair' edge

By Evan Drellich /

08/22/10 9:36 PM ET

LOS ANGELES -- The Dodgers will be able to fill a few needs when rosters expand on Sept. 1, allowing teams to use anyone on their 40-man roster.

Los Angeles will be able to bring up an extra infielder, with only Ronnie Belliard on the bench currently, and they'll be able to bring back catcher A.J. Ellis, who is to be optioned to Triple-A Albuquerque on Tuesday.

The Dodgers likely won't add too many players, and likely none of them will make a huge impact. But some teams could end up with a significant boost because of the roster expansion, and Dodgers manager Joe Torre isn't a fan of the idea.

"I think it's unfair," Torre said. "There are some clubs that will bring up a handful, three or four, I think we all do that. And then there are other clubs ... and you can understand why they're doing it. They're not doing it to try to make your job tougher; they're trying to make some decisions in their organization."

Torre said he would support some sort of cap on eligibility per game, or anything that makes roster expansion fairer for all teams.

"It's very tough playing against those teams, especially in our league where part of it is you're trying to run your opposition out of players," Torre said. "Basically, people get knocked out of the pennant race by people who have played Double-A ball and maybe four at-bats in the big leagues."

I just want to know what happens if Myers hits anyone????

Brawl anyone??? If so, Does Ed Wade jump Amaro in the Hall of Fame lounge?

Note: someone sent me some youtube basebrawl videos today

Hey torre... if your team is getting beat by Double A players, you have more problems than roster size limits

Boy, waht a piss poor attitude by Torre? And this is a manager some consider to be HOF caliber. Are you effin' serious?

Note to Joe:

You're the MANAGER. You're supposed to be able to make the in-game decisions to keep from running out of players. Is this why you had a losing record as a manager when you took over the Yankees and Steinbreener bought you your HOF ticker - you had been in the National League? What's the matter, can you only manage in a league with a DH where you don't have to think ahead too far about the switches you might have to make?


I'm not sure I understand what Torre is saying. All teams are eligible to expand their roster, so what point is he trying to make?

On Sutter: IIRC, at one point in time he had a streak where he was as dominat as any closer I've seen.

OP, he's whining like a baby. That's all.

I take full responsibility for posting the Pirates link and beginning that free-for-all. I imagine had I just posted it and let it go it may have been an interesting discussion. Instead it turned into a destruction derby on the interwebs.

Lake Fred: I actually don't care that much about the Pirates thing--you think its wrong that the info was disclosed, I disagree, whatever, thats fine.

But I'm curious--do you think Ellsberg leaking the Pentagon Papers was an act of treason too, even though it helped end the Vietnam War?

People and organizations in power always want the corrupt things they do to be kept secret. While I agree that the misuse of funds by the Pirates is not really corruption as such, its still scary to see such a knee jerk reaction against the public exposure of their mismanagement.

PS. Wikileaks has repeatedly tried to get the Pentagon to help them redact sensitive info, and the Pentagon has refused, so I think they are overhyping the threat that these leaks actually pose. See here:

Okay I swear I'm done with the politics.

"Polanco Polanco not playing tonight due to elbow soreness. "I don't want to make a big deal of it," skipper Charlie Manuel said."

He doesn't want to make a big deal out of it because it actually isn't a big deal or just because he doesn't want to talk about it?

We'll see, I guess. Hopefully it feels better soon. I love Polly.

Tonight should be a good game. Blanton and Myers were buddies and they are similar tough guys. Myers has done well, here in Houston. I suspect that deep down he wishes he was still pitching for the Phillies, but that was not to be. Nobody in Houston talks about his wife beating episode. They are glad to have a pitcher that battles and one that does not worry about pitch counts. They don't have much to be happy about in Houston, but Myers has been one of the few good stories in Houston.

NEPP: "My 5th starter expectations: 5-6 innings every 5th day and an ERA under 5...anything more than that is gravy."

Sounds pretty good...the only thing I would add is "cheap". Maybe less than 2mil/year?

you probably don't want a 5th starter making $12 million ollie perez

Lake Fred: If you use public money to support your enterprise, to build your stadium or whatever, the public is entitled to see your financials IMHO.

OK, for argument's sake, let's say Polly can't play at all. Elbow way too sore. Let's also say that Valdes is up in the bottom of the 9th with the bases loaded, 2 outs against a really tough RHP.

You see the problem.

I agree that if the taxpayers finance the stadium, they should be allowed to see the financials, but it's never going to happen.

Why? Too many politicans are corrupt and in the owner's back pocket. If they aren't corrupt, then they're scared that the owner might pack up and leave if he doesn't get the new stadium under his terms. Can you imagine being the politican blamed for the beloved sports team leaving town?

Not to start a whole internet feud but seeing Blanton regarded as a tough guy reminds me of the old quote (quite appropriate for his make-up) referring to somebody as having "the backbone of a chocolate eclair".

Re: Extended rosters

Our own Larry Anderson has gone on extensive rants in years past about the same extended-roster issue as Joe Torre. I have no doubt we'll hear it again this year.

Old Phan, the issue is that they can stock bullpens with 4 extra lefties and then as a manager, your clever bench strategy to get them to burn a lefty in the 7th is moot when they got 3 more they can roll out in the 9th.

At first I thought it was whining, but there is something to it. The game dynamics change a bit when rosters expand. And it's not a case of you being able to bring up just as many guys as they do. The manager is trying to get, for example, Chase Utley into a favorable matchup in the late innings the way you have all year and suddenly expanded rosters can potentially muck that up.

Having said that, if your slugger gets beat by a AA lefty specialist, you've got other problems.

It's not that huge a deal, but it can be annoying. It does change game dynamics in subtly meaningful ways, so I think there is a point to maybe having a limit on guys you can use in a single game. I don't think Torre and Anderson are that off-base.

And if anyone cares about speeding games up, they should absolutely hate expanded rosters.

UC might not want to big deal about it but how bad is Polanco's elbow?

Mick, good points. I was wondering if Joe was complaining about it on philosophical terms or because he thought it put the Dodgers at a disadvantage. If it's the former, then he has every right to his judgment, but if it's the latter, then yea, I guess he could be accused of whining.
As an aside, I'm not a Torre hater, and in fact, think he should be considered for a sainthood for working under Steinbrenner for all of those years.

That picture of Sutter is great.

This is a baseball blog, but I'll briefly respond to Timr, "But I'm curious--do you think Ellsberg leaking the Pentagon Papers was an act of treason too, even though it helped end the Vietnam War?" My answer: Yes.

Rauls grandpa, you gave me a laugh with ""the backbone of a chocolate eclair". Blanton looks like he's never met an eclair he didn't like.

clout, governments help businesses all over the place, but its not on the sports page. Airports are solely for private business. Port cities like Philly, New Orleans and Houston, all have government owned dock facilities. The fact that the IRS taxes all businesses based on income means that the government sees all and knows all.

Frankly, I think the government should get out of butting into everyone's business. I think sports teams should build and own their own stadiums. Who owns Dodger Stadium? ....the Dodgers. All it took was some weak sister town to pony up a stadium to keep a team, now ALL teams EXPECT government to build them new stadiums every twenty years with eighty luxury box enclosed suites.

I listen to sports radio in Houston and I hear the soccer team whining that they need the city of Houston to build them a world class stadium to house their 17,000 fans. Cities don't put this stuff up for a vote because they know that it would lose.

Easy answer...

Brown hits for Valdez... Chooch replaces Valdez at 3rd... Schneider behind the plate.

What's the big deal?

Anyone in Philly: Does this game get played tonight, or will there be a rainout?

Old Phan: As far as which teams this favors, expanded rosters add chaos and uncertainty, which is more harmful to contenders than non-contenders.

So Torre has no worries of it hurting him this year.

CJ: My point exactly.

Lake Fred: In a democracy, the government is us. If we spend money to help a private business, then we are entitled to see the accounting. If the private business wants to keep that secret, then they don't get the public money.

I would argue that the Public Financing portion doesn't require a public statement of finances. The government entities are investing in infrastructure, future tax revenue, and community good will. None of that requires (save honest reporting for tax purposes) a public disclosure of finances. They aren't shareholders of the organization. The dividends are championships and community feelings.

In the Phillies case (who benefited the most from the public financing) have more than held up their bargain with the ballpark experience and the winning. Community good will can be shown by looking around the city during road trips and off days. How many people where Phillies gear as part of the daily casual dress?

I brought my cousin, a Boston fan, with his two kids to the ballgame yesterday. He couldn't stop talking about how much he enjoyed the stadium and the experience. They are staying in a CC hotel and made it back and forth from the park without issue (well except for being drenched).

Unfortunately, some of these can't be measured. And no balance sheet will have a line item for it. But its there. And that's good enough for this taxpayer.

VBut I'm curious--do you think Ellsberg leaking the Pentagon Papers was an act of treason too, even though it helped end the Vietnam War?"

Actually, under the definition of the word, yes.

Now, the politics of situation are entirely different, and Ellsberg wasn't successfully prosecuted "...Due to the gross governmental misconduct and illegal evidence gathering" by the prosecution."

It's entirely possible that he would have been had there been more probity on the part of those in government.

Of course, it's gross governmental misconduct like that and in many other areas that are the impetus for the right's argument for limiting the power and scope of government in the first place.

Yo, new thread.

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