Part of

« Injuries haven't slowed Polly's pursuit of batting title | Main | Thursday: Phillies follow the blueprint in shutout win »

Wednesday, August 11, 2010


his (Baez) signing was greeted rather favorably by Beerleaguer.
Posted by: CJ | Wednesday, August 11, 2010 at 05:50 PM

Baez? Color me unexcited.
Posted by: awh | Wednesday, December 30, 2009 at 07:01 PM

C'mon Cuz, Dannys Baez stinks!
Posted by: Joel V | Thursday, December 31, 2009 at 12:36 PM

What a fvcking stupid signing. What if he's terrible? He's a middle reliver for godsake...its not exactly like middle relievers are consistent. Stupid stupid stupid.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, December 31, 2009 at 03:12 PM

No doubt there was better talent out there and if Rube sees Baez as the replacement for CHoP that bothers me because I think he's a downgrade. I'm most curious about what they'll be paying him. That will tell us whether they really think he'd be an upgrade or if this is a Value Village signing with a more serious acquisition coming up next. I hope it's the latter.
Posted by: clout | Thursday, December 31, 2009 at 09:09 PM

FWIW, mikes77 disagreed with me that Baez was a downgrade from Park.

Clout: In the interest of full disclosure, you also said this:

CJ: That's why I liked the signing although Baez is far from my first choice for bullpen help. The second year back from TJ surgery is almost always a better year.

Posted by: clout | Friday, January 01, 2010 at 11:03 AM

Hail Cloutius.

Brown, who clouted his first Major League homer last night

Are you calling Clout a homer?

Jack: Actually I posted about 5 items on the signing, as did you and several others. Why not print them all? Want me to find them for you?

Anyway, I'll re-post my post from the last thread, aka The Defense of Nelson Figueroa:

Optimispun: For the record, in June, I would've found a way to either get Herndon permanently from the Angels (seems like all you'd have to do is just offer a C-level prospect for him, but I don't know), make up an injury and DL him, or DFA'ed Baez in order to keep room for Figueroa.

You can mock Figueroa all you want, but he pitched well out of the bullpen for us and has continued to pitch well out of the bullpen for Houston. His stats would be up there among our best relievers this year--3.38 ERA, 1.02 WHIP, 6.8 K/9, 3.11 K/BB ratio. In his career he has a 3.42 ERA as a reliever in 137 innings (4.93 as a starter). He strikes me exactly as the type of guy who can't cut it at the MLB level as a starter, but can make a useful reliever-- a lot like Chad Durbin, actually.

Whether the upgrade from Herndon/Baez to Figueroa is enough to make a crucial difference in the playoff race, I don't know, but I do know it would make the team better. And when you're in a tight playoff race, anything that makes the team better is a good move. The only cost would have been losing the chance Danys Baez is actually effective next year--and, anyway, there's a chance no one would pick him up on waivers, and he'd stay in AAA with us anyway.

I remember not being opposed to the Baez signing. The 09 pen was scarring, and I thought Baez would at least pitch passably. Plus he looks not unlike my friend Mike

Pirates Mathematically Eliminated From Major League BaseballAugust 10, 2010 |
03.16.10 PITTSBURGH—After losing their fifth straight game Monday, the Pittsburgh Pirates were mathematically eliminated from Major League Baseball, having fallen to a 36-69 record that officially disqualified the team from ever playing the sport again. "Eventually it comes to a point where there just aren't enough future games to turn things around for a baseball team," manager John Russell said following a 4-0 loss to the Reds that ended the Pirates franchise. "I had high hopes that we would go deeper into our regular seasons, but truthfully, we've been playing so lousy for the last 18 years that even if we got to our 106th game we wouldn't have been able to contend." In response to the Pirates' getting knocked out of professional baseball forever, Pittsburgh fans said that they were frankly relieved.

Clout: No, not necessary. And anyway, we're in agreement as to the overall point, which was that it was by no means a great deal at the time to sign Baez. In fact, many of us pointed out the flaws right away. So CJ was being disingenuous to claim that it's wrong to question the Baez signing because everyone thought it was good at the time.

Vic was hurting the team with bad abs, therefore I don't see the logic in sending Brown back to the pigs. Id rather see Baez released and Vance Worley recalled who looked lights out in his only app this season.

at 7:05 the clock starts ticking on Oswalt. It is apparent that he is not in the same league as Roy1 and C**** L**. He isn't a bad pitcher by any means but this isn't Houston and we aren't 1,000 games out. I hope it doesn't happen but people could turn on him.

Aren't middle relievers notoriously fickle year to year? What's the rush to release Baez - he's the 12th man in the BP and signed through next year. Let's let him mop up games and see if he's magically better next year.

I never thought Baez was the cure for all our bullpen problems, but I liked the signing as far as it went, since I thought he'd be better in his 2nd year back from TJ surgery. But I'm not sure why it matters what I, or Beerleaguer in general, thought of the signing. It obviously hasn't worked out in Year 1. The only question at this point is whether you think the chance of a bounce-back is sufficiently high to justify keeping him on the roster for the next 3 weeks. The answer to that depends on the alternatives, for both this year and next. For now, I can only say this: the chance of a Baez bounce-back exceeds the chance of Herndon fulfilling his presumed potential in 2011. So, if one has to go, it should be Herndon.

Clearly, it's very important that everyone know exactly what everyone else's first impressions of the Baez signing were. Because then we can... Um, we can... I'm sure that we....

Jack: That was exactly my point. There were many posts on both sides of the issue.

Some were for it, some were agin' it, and some went "huh"? I count myself in the latter category. Didn't do much for me either way.

ryank, I, too would rather see Baez go than Brown. And BAP, I'd also rather see Herndon go than Baez. And to be blunt, I'd bet that there's also a pretty good chance that RAJ might even agree with BOTH notions. However, it doesn't change the fact that Herndon is a Rule 5 guy just a couple weeks away from being Phillies property for good, and that Baez has another year and $2.7M remaining on his contract. So, I guess, it doesn't even necessarily matter what any of our opinions/preferences are - RAJ won't be getting rid of either of them.

I'm betting they DL Romero or send DBrown back to LV for a couple of weeks.

More on Figgy:

On July 8, when he was DFA'd Figueroa had a 3.46 ERA. Pretty good. Herndon's ERA was 3.86 (comparable), and Baez's 4.46. (not very comparable).

At this point, sure, it looks like they shouldn't have let Figgy slip away, but I'm guessing they didn't project him to have the year he's having. That was a mistake.

BUT: mistake as it may be to have let Figueroa go, it wasn't, on the strength of their numbers, terrifically egregious. Nor is it clear that Baez/Herndon have, in tandem, cost the Phillies any wins that Figueroa would have secured.

As far as the likelihood that Matthieson is better than Herndon, where's the evidence? Lots of players can look quite good in AAA only to struggle mightily at the major league level. Do folks think it's just not possible for Matthieson to post an ERA+ lower than Herndon's, at 87? How long are people willing to experiment?

Willard, we at BL believe in accountability.

Oswalt needs to show what the fuss was all about tonight.

Its time for the "tired arm" to go away and for him to start pitching like the ace he was supposed to be (and used to be).

BIG outing for Mr. Oswalt tonight. I would expect him to come up big.

I would expect a pitcher's duel tonight. Most times after a night where nobody can pitch, the next game sees the bats go quiet. I'd look for Billingsley and Oswalt to put up a lot of 0's tonight.

BAP - 'Herndon's potential' is ridiculous. His only real value is that he will be cheap and won't be arbitration eligible until '13 & he provides some organizational depth the next 2 years. That's it.

Spitz - Yeah. I would see how Baez looks next spring and if he gives you mediocre numbers at best then you seriously think about dumping him.

This isn't a minor league system right now loaded with ready options to fill out the pen right now or next spring. 1-2 spots maybe. More than that and it will be asking for trouble.

MG: I don't see any great potential there either. He throws hard & can induce grounders, but he can't strike anyone out. He's Clay Condrey at best, and that kind of guy is a dime a dozen.

Optim: ERA is a bad stat for relievers because they pitch few innings. Plus, they can pitch terribly but the runs end up getting charged to someone else (as happened with Romero & Bastardo last night). When it comes to the far more meaningful peripheral stats, Figueroa has been much better than Herndon this year. And he's obviously a lot more versatile, since he can pitch 4 or 5 innings & even make a spot start.

I love how people are prospectively bashing Roy Oswalt. He's certainly not the pitcher he used to be (so what), but he's still a great pitcher and a terrific #3 in this rotation. He has nothing to prove. Go look at his B-R page. He's never had a bad season in the majors. He also was the ace of a staff that went to a WS. He has nothing to prove. He was a good signing no matter what he does from this point forward.

I don't know that anyone is upset that Roy 2.0 isn't the pitcher he used to be. I think everyone was pretty ready for that, thus the reason behind everyone being so adamantly against that option year. If he can pitch like a good #3, it's already an upgrade. Happ was good for a #4/5, but I don't know that anyone (maybe clout) would argue that he's a legit #3.

I'm just glad that Romero's lazy hand isn't attached to Oswalt's dead arm.

Fatalotti: I think you're onto a great idea with the concept of "prospective bashing." If people implemented that concept into their posts, it would add a whole new element to our discussions. You know that guy that Amaro plans to sign this off-season to be the utility infielder next season? He sucks. I'm dead-set against signing him. And since I know we're going to sign him anyhow, I already think we should cut him.

All right!!!

The Iron Pigs make MLB network.

Well, Carlos Delgado was the reason. But Ty Taubenheim looked strong out there.

Roy Oswalt isn't the pitcher he used to be? He put up some pretty sick numbers prior to being dealt to the Phils.

His fastball is just as fast as it was in 2007. I guess maybe he threw harder prior to that year (can't find stats), but I think the degree to which he's "declined" is significantly overstated.

He's got the best K/9 of his career since his rookie season. His FIP and xFIP are both comparable to his best seasons.

Amaro's next deal feels like a dud.

Well, JRol was 5/6 of the way to working a walk, before swinging at ball 4. Baby steps.

J-Roll's only attribute as a hitter nowadays is hitting in the clutch late in games.

Which isn't the worst thing in the world.

CJ, I may have mispoken, but I was conceding the point for the sake of argument. IF Oswalt is still the same pitcher, then the deal was a trade of absolute genius. Either way, we have a #3 in our rotation who is significantly better than probably all #3s (assuming that Oswalt is not the same pitcher) or we have a legitimate ace as our #3 pitcher. Either way, I'll take it.

Old Phan: ha!

Why does everything think that it would be easy to give the Angels a bag of balls and keep Herndon. Maybe the Angels attitude is: You want to steal our prospect; you better pay the price.

>> Amaro's next deal feels like a dud.

I love this comment!

I was at the game last night.....It was sickening watching charlie trot out one shitty pitcher after the other....was kyle getting squeezed at the plate? I was in left field and couldnt really see.

How did I miss the whole civil suit against Johan Santana from a woman who claims he raped her? I guess Johan, who is married, admitted to having sex with her on a golf course, but claims it was consensual (A golf course? Who are you, Tiger Woods?).

Phils will miss both Johan Santana and Lincecum in their next 2 series.

In the Giants series, it should be Zito, Cain and Sanchez. Still pretty formidable. Phils will counter with Oswalt, Blanton and Hamels.

I actually live in LA (well, Pasadena, but close) and I'm FROM Reading. I'm in a job that doesn't exactly allow me to have a "winter home," but I can assure that you if it did, I sure as hell wouldn't have my winter home in Reading, PA, even though my entire family lives there.

Lesson learned? Billingsley keeps it real a hell of a lot better than I do.

steve, Kyle wasn't getting squeezed so much as he was serving up beach balls.

Speaking of getting squeezed... Roy had him struck out looking. was brutal I wanted to just bash in charlies head the whole night.....I did get to say some pretty nasty things to steriod abuser jay gibbons that was fun

Vic with a 3B in his first AB with LV tonight.

Mayberry walked and then Tracy hit into a DP to end the inning.

Typical Pig ball.

At least Vic looks ready to go.

I am ready for Vic to be ready to go.

Jay Gibbons looks like he shrunk.

Wonder what happened? Has he stopped eating cheeseburgers and drinking Budweiser?

I'm waiting to make up my Vic opinion until after DBrown's next AB. I'll get back to you.

Interesting to hear so much anger sent Charlie's way last night. I mean, it's typical for the people here... but what did people want him to do? Roll out Durbin, Contreras, Madson after going down 7-0?

Pitchers, at some point, need to do their job. And you can't burn your good arms in a blowout hoping you can muster 8 or more runs the rest of the way.

Brown is *definitely* headed back down when Vic returns. I saw tweeted today that someone with the Phils said Brown could use more at bats in AAA.

Cholly was talking about the difficulty in managing a 4 man OF, too, talking about guys being paid to be regulars and not losing their job to injury.

Our boy Brown is headed to the Lehigh Valley for a few more weeks.

CJ: Who criticized Cholly's management last night?

you are right CJ just dropping a nice chunk of change at the ballpark to watch the iron pigs pitching staff kinda sucks. I see the iron pigs for 9 dollars and that is right on the field lol.

I'm ready for Vic to be ready.

Brown needs to learn to lay off that tailing inside cutter. He has been swinging at it consistently, with consistently bad results. They don't throw those at AAA.

"They don't throw those at AAA."

Unless you're Bastardo, Mathieson or some other bullpen savior.

Is something up with Jimmy?

Got back from a bathroom break. Who's the MILF on with TMac?

""They don't throw those at AAA."

Scott Eyre throws them at his house.

MILF? Low standards...

That was a stupid AB by Ethier. Good to see.

MILF using the LPGA correlary. Also applicable to such settings as riding an airplane and watching reality TV shows - when you have such a limited subset of remotely attractive females, expectations are reset and most women move up a notch or two as a result.

ya if anything she looked more like a GILF

Willard, agreed. jt, definitely agreed.

Not that I'm knocking the Phillies Ball Girls or anything, but I think even Pat the Bat would need more than a sixer to set his sights on one of them.

Let's face it, Phillies baseball isn't exactly synonymous with hotties. Utley's wife excepted, of course.

Just wondering if anyone else who listens to game on and 'watches' Gameday has noticed a big delay between radio and Gameday lately. Last several games it has been very, very behind for me.

And the Phils broadcast is blacked out so I have listen to these 2 snoozers do the game. If you think TMac is bad...

Old Phan, you're watching the Dodger feed on TV, or listening to Franzke and LA on the radio feed?

Dodger Feed on TV.

Wow, that run support stat is mind boggling. I feel bad for the guy.

Vice Roy looks pretty strong so far.

Yeah, they're pretty brutal.

Look at it this way, one more after tonight and you can choose between Wheels/TMac and the clowns on SNY next series.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the final score tonight will not be 15-9.

Polly wants a batting title.

that was a hit.

shane hit a bomb haha

I feel like Werth would like to hit a 3 run homerun right now.

I'm calling a Domonic grand slam. If I'm wrong, I realize I'll be held accountable.

come on know what to do.....victo is 2 for 2 with a 3 bagger and a homer, you know you wanna stay up here now that you got a taste.....little poke domo, little poke

BAP, gutsy call.

that first pitch was a strike?

Domonic is the king of the productive out. But I'll take it.

Domo is too fast to double up.... he will be a good 2 spotter one day.

That was an opportunity squandered. The Phillies are good at that.

"I'm calling a Domonic grand slam. If I'm wrong, I realize I'll be held accountable."

This sent liquid through my nose. It hurts.

ruiz has to get back to those singles he was more flyballs and k's

Does Oswalt have a K yet?

"here's a stat that you like wheels, these, what they call "shut-down innings"

"yeah, the phils could definitely use that right now (giggle)"

Where on earth is everybody? NEPP? G-Town Dave? Sophist? Truth? MG? Jack? Andy? Anyone around tonight?

Fatalotti: He got Ethier.

There's K2.

jimmy looks like he lost a step or two.

I hope Oswalt can make it 7 innings. He's throwing a lot of pitches. Not very efficient tonight, and also has gotten unlucky on a few balls in play.

I don't know if 7 is enough fatalotti. Who will come in for 8th and 9th....MadDog and Lidgeypoo?

Oswalt looks pretty strong tonight. Good outing so far.

Well steve, 7 is better than 6. Who would come in before Madson? Also, I don't fear Madson coming into the game. He's a good reliever, and he locks down the 8th innings more often than not.

By the way, I like lead-off triples usually, but the Phillies will find a way to not score him.


Valdez has been cleared to start hitting as well.

suicide squeeze?

It's not often that Wilson Valdez triples. They absolutely need to get him home.

Wilson Valdez triples.

In other news, temperatures dropped to below freezing in south Texas as the Rio Grande froze over...

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel