Game chat: NL contenders clash in Philadelphia

Left-hander Barry Zito (8-6, 3.44) and Roy Oswalt (7-13, 3.34) do the honors when the Giants and Phillies start a crucial set beginning tonight at 7:05. (Getty Images)

Notes: The playoff race feels like it officially begins tonight with two combatants locked in a virtual tie for the Wild Card lead with 45 to play. Time for scoreboard watching. Time for four daily blog entries. Just full-throttle Phils until the final pitch of the season. Looking at this matchup, the Phils have not been sharp against the pitching-strong Giants lately, going 4-8 and hitting just .184 against them in their last dozen games. However, they are 12-4 in their last 16 meetings at Citizens Bank Park where they have been fire hot lately, going 15-2 in their last 17. Chase Utley is back. When we last saw him, he was sort of sputtering along. Time will tell whether the time off was the "blessing in disguise" as many had hoped. Certainly, the loss column didn't suffer greatly. Meanwhile, Ryan Howard is not expected back for this series, according to reports. Strangely, this will be Oswalt's fourth start against the Giants this season; all of them have been against Tim Lincecum, and despite pitching decently, he's lost every single one of them. As for the Giants, they are one of only three National League clubs that play above .500 ball on the road (30-29), but are just 24-34 against teams over .500.

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Comments

[MG]

Glad to see Cholly is using his 2nd best reliever tonight in a game up 6 runs. Ugh.

Why are Baez and Herdnon even on this roster?

[clout]

BAP: If this is NOT a situation to bring in Baez, then what is?

[MG]

BAP - They are up 6 runs. Herndon could get 6 runs and if worst came to worse they could have brought in Durbin if Herndon gave up a run/two.

[aksmith]

What exactly does a hitting coach tell Pablo Sandoval when he's not hitting? Lose 100 pounds? Stop swinging at everything? This guy is one of the best natural hitters I've ever seen. But I think he's going to flame out because he's a huge fat pig and he'll break down if he doesn't push away from the table.

[Jack]

Denny is right. This Phillies offense does not bash bad pitchers as much as old Phillies teams.

Of course, what he doesn't mention, is the reason they don't do it as much is because they just aren't as good an offense as old Phillies teams. Phlipper is right--that's what good offenses do. The Phillies do it some, because they're a good offense, but they don't do it nearly as much as they used to, when they had great offenses.

[Greg S. from Lancaster]

Durbin was warming up when it was a close game. Might as well bring him in.

[clout]

MG: Because they only put the best 25 players on the roster? That's what I learned on Beerleaguer tonight.

[gobaystars!]

Put this one in the win column for the Phightin' Phills.

[Pizzda]

Great game.

[MG]

Greg S - That's a valid point. Oh well. Phils won and as long as Blanton goes at least 6 IP Durbin pitching tonight doesn't matter that much.

[denny b.]

BAP,

What if Durbin takes a line-drive off his leg and misses a week? Or pulls a groin running to 1B to cover?

He's arguably the 2nd or 3rd most important piece in the pen. He should be treated like fine china.

Because it might be 4-4 tomorrow in the 6th and he might be needed to WIN that game. This game was over.

If you can't trust Baez to get 3 outs with a 6 run lead, then cut him.

[The Truth Injection]

We won 9-3, let the teeth gnashing begin.

Complain about things you want to but remember this- that was a Phillies victory the way they did it in 2009 and 2008. They had a small lead and when they had a chance they stepped on the other team's throat and never gave them a chance to rise again. When you put pressure on teams you play them into mistakes. Fontenot made a mistake on that play because 1.) he was in and 2.) he was trying to hurry to help his team out of the inning.

Good teams (and playoff teams) put a bullet through the opposing teams head when you get the chance.

[aksmith]

What if a plane crashes into the stadium? Then we'd lose the entire team and Matt Rizzotti would be at first with Mayberry playing all three outfield positions the rest of the season. So, there is an upside.

[limoguy]

'If you can't trust Baez to get 3 outs with a 6 run lead, then cut him.'

Exactly.

[bay_area_phan]

clout: I started typing these posts before the lead was 6 runs. I think you could probably use Baez with a 6-run lead.

My comment was more general. Denny & MG seem to think that, if the lead is more than 3 runs, it's totally insurmountable & it's ok to frivolously use a couple of relievers who get lit up almost every time they pitch. In fact, a 4 or 5-run lead can be blown. And, short of being blown, it can very easily be reduced to the point that you end up having to burn your closer anyhow -- while also making the game much more stressful than it needed to be.

[clout]

denny b: "If you can't trust Baez to get 3 outs with a 6 run lead, then cut him."

From your lips to RAJ's ear.

[Fatalotti]

Guys, calm down about them using Durbin. I'm pretty sure we still have the least amount of innings pitched by our relief core, and Durbin should be fine to pitch tomorrow. And, we have Hamels pitching on Thursday, so he should be able to go deep into that game. And other than losing this game, the last thing you want to do is give this team some momentum going into tomorrow's game by letting them put 3 runs up in the 9th. Get the win quickly and get the game over with. We are coming into the stretch run here and we need our best players to win these games for us.

[gobaystars!]

There is an emergency situation in the Rittenhouse Square area! A wild man is on the loose! Hide all bud light and women under 40!

[MG]

Need Blanton to give them a shot to win tomorrow night like Oswalt did tonight.

[MG]

"And other than losing this game, the last thing you want to do is give this team some momentum going into tomorrow's game by letting them put 3 runs up in the 9th."

That's means almost nothing in baseball.

[aksmith]

Nah, tomorrow night feels like a loss.

[denny b.]

The point is, that there was no need (besides having him warmed up) to put Durbin in a 6 run game in the 9th inning.

No need to risk an injury to a very important member of the pen. Not when you are starting the most grueling part of your schedule. And not when Blanton is pitching tomorrow.

When does Baez pitch then? A 9 run lead? A 11 run lead? What is enough for him?

Durbin isn't likely going to break down by throwing 15 extra pitches in 1 game. But with the way this year has gone injury-wise, better to be safe then sorry.

[phlipper]

What if Durbin lights a fart in the bullpen and it ignites one of the gas jets in Bulls' BBQ? Have you thought of that, denny?

[Fatalotti]

aksmith, I had trouble reading your last post because I couldn't stop laughing.

[phlipper]

Can anyone name one game the Phils lost this year because Charlie couldn't bring in a pitcher due to overwork?

[MG]

phlipper - That would be a tremendous release of gas.

[limoguy]

That isn't now they light the grill up already?

[denny b.]

Philliper,

Stick to scolding us about Ibanez.

You are not 'getting' this argument.

[AFish]

Baez and Herndon pitch when the team is *down* by 4 or more runs.

MG, we understand. If it isn't a save situation, you want Herndon or Baez to pitch.

[phlipper]

When does Baez pitch then?

When there is no one else available in the bullpen.

[Fatalotti]

MG, I believe it does. I'll give you the perfect example and it comes right from the horse's mouth. Last year in the game 5 of the WS, the Phillies were cruisng to a comfortable victory. Manuel may have left Lee out too long, and the Yankees put up about 4 runs late in the game. They still lost, but in game 6, they absolutely crushed the Phils. After the game, Derek Jeter said that the Yankees plating a bunch of runs late and making a game of it in game 5 gave them a lot of momentum going into game 6. When you have a team down on the canvas and you have a game with them tomorrow, I think it's most important to win the gave obviously, but it's also important to not give them anything to feed off.

[denny b.]

Flip,

I think Herndon and Baez should try that trick and see if they can light the place on fire.

Its about the only thing they have to do anyway out there.

[phlipper]

I'll ask the question again.

How many times have we heard complaints about Charlie's usage of the bullpen - complaints that he's tiring pitchers out by using them in the wrong situations?

... so....

Can anyone name one game the Phils lost this year because Charlie couldn't bring in a bullpen pitcher due to overwork?

[Old Phan]

It would be much better if Durbin got injured in a close game than in a more lopsided game.

[bake]

My favorite part was Burrell hitting his homerun and the Phillies crushing the Giants anyway.

[CJ]

My goodness...

I can't imagine any fan base in the world whines this much after a great win over a very good opponent that puts them 1 game up in the Wild Card standings.

The wet blankets are out in full force tonight!

[aksmith]

I see only one wet blanket, CJ. You see more?

[Fatalotti]

Durbin has 50 IP so far this year, and is on pace for 68.2 IP this year. In 2008, he pitched 87 inning, which may have been a bit much for him, but Durbin is not being overused, and the Phillies absolutely needed this game. That's why he was used.

[Pizzda]

Nothing more fun than the complaints after a 9-3 victory.

[bay_area_phan]

My hopes for tomorrow (in no particular order):

1. Blanton gives us a decent game (i.e., 7 IP, 3 runs)

2. The Phillies have patient ABs against a sometimes-wild Matt Cain, driving up his pitch count & leading to an early exit; and

3. I get through the day without reading another story about Pat Burrell being naked.

[Fatalotti]

Also, to pile on, since Durbin can pitch tomorrow and the next two pitchers are Hamels and Halladay, it's likely he'll get two days off before being needed again. Denny, how can you be serioiusly upset at this move.

[bay_area_phan]

Fatalotti: Plus, he was warmed up. Cholly doesn't have a crystal ball. Just because we get a couple men on base does not mean we're going to score. Once we pushed the lead up to about 4 runs, getting Durbin up in the pen was a decent middle ground option. On the one hand, with a 4-run lead, it's better to use Durbin than to burn your closer. On the other hand, Cholly has no idea if the Phillies are going to score more runs & a 4-run lead is not so safe that he can trust Baez or Herndon to hold it.

[Call me Ishmael]

Excellent win tonight, I echo many posters here who said this is the Phils we've become acustomed to in the recent past; bide their time until a weakness is shown, and shoot for the jugular. I like when the Phils play the Giants too, as a kid my last game I got to see with my grandfather, I was so pumped to see Barry Bonds hit a HR at the Vet, even as a Phils fan. My dream was ruined when Kevin Millwood decided to not only deny Barry Bonds a HR, but everyone else wearing a Giants uniform a hit. Good times.

[Pizzda]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with bringing in Durbin in that situation, and even if you didn't like the move before, how can you be upset about it now?

[The Truth Injection]

Also, once a guy is warmed up you almost have to use him or else you basically had him do all the work to get prepared and wasted an outing.

The only reason they say Lidge is because the score got completely out-of-hand.

[Fatalotti]

Combined ERA of our top 3 starters in August: 2.38. Averaging 7 innings a start. Studs. Also, Kendrick since his return from being demoted, has a 3.07 ERA. If the Braves do have a deeper rotation, it is unfortunately only because of the inconsistency of Blanton.

[Mr. Mack]

Just wondering...So which favorite old haunt of his is PtB on his way out to now after the game? And would he be going out on the town with a few of his current Giant's teammates to show them the Philly hot spots, some of his old Phillies buddies or both?

[Malcolm]

As Mike Schmidt once said, playing in Philadelphia means experiencing the thrill of victory, and the agony of having to hear about inconsequential bullpen decisions that very same night.

[Bruce Ruffin]

.753 baseball here on in gets us to 100 wins. Bleep the wild card, and bleep those bleepin' Braves.

[brother]

Herndon and Baez are the 11th and 12th inning guys.

[CJ]

Herndon and Baez are down 5 runs in the 4th or tied in the 17th and 18th guys.

When you're in a pennant race, you shorten the bullpen. It happens with most teams. The idea that there are some magical great arms out there just waiting to replace them is hilarious. I know... I know... just bring up Antonio Bastardo and Scott Mathieson. That is just what the bullpen needs.

[Mr. Mack]

Polly now takes over the NL batting lead with his 4 hit night is a nice side note. I was not aware that the last Phillie to win a Batting Title was his Whiteness.

It would be a nice piece of hardware to pick up after winning a WFS trophy again at the end of the year, as well as proving Placido was a superb FA signing. Most importantly, it would validate the common BL belief that he should never have gotten away to begin with.

[phlipper]

Sorry - I left someone out earlier.

Hallady, Gload, Sweeney, Oswalt, Valdez, Polly.

RAJ is a moron.

[Fatalotti]

The Phillies are currently on pace for 92 wins. If they go 28-16 over these last 44 games, they will finish with 95 wins, which should be more than enough to at least get them into the playoffs, if not win them the division. Can they play .636 baseball over the remainder of the season? 24 of their remaining games are at home and 32 are against teams with an under .500 winning percentage. We have 3 great SPs, a relive in Madson who is lights out right now, Durbin has been more than solid, and Lidge has not been imploding. Our lineup is about to be fully healthy, and I think we now have a good bench. If we aren't the best team in the NL with everyone healthy, we're damn close.

[Dukes]

If RAJ got Hallady instead of Halladay he really would be a moron.

[steve]

STL lost full game up on the giants and 1.5 up on STL for wild card woot woot

[gobaystars!]

Hallady, Gloab, Swaney, Osplalt, Maldives, and Pachinko.

RUBEN!! YOU IDIOT!!

[Right on, Mike]

Bruce Ruffin and 100 wins. I like the enthusiasm!

[gobaystars!]

"Right on, Mike" wins name of the year!

[Fatalotti]

Rays and Yankees both have a 73-46 record. Both have 38 home wins, both have 35 road wins. Rays are +143 in run differential. Yankees are +144. Incredible.

[Bruce Ruffin]

Fatalotti – From Patton:

Patton: I've always felt that I was destined for some great achievement, what I don't know.
Sgt. William Meeks: Yes, sir.
Patton: The last great opportunity of a lifetime - an entire world at war, and I'm left out of it? God will not permit this to happen! I will be allowed to fulfill my destiny! His will be done.

That's how I "feel"; and it's my guess, Charlie does too -- about the friggin' "wild card."

[Sophist]

The Phils have won 19 of 24.

Something I didn't take note of until tonight was just how bad the Giants defense was. Sandoval-Uribe-Huff-Burrell. That's a bad collection of defenders.

After this series the Phils have an easier schedule the rest of the way than the Braves (just going by opponents).

[Sophist]

The loudest cheer up to the 5th inning (outside of Utley's introduction) was for Oswalt's bunt in the bottom of the 5th. Ruiz long AB preceding and Oswalt's 2-strike bunt, for all the offense later, was a swing in tonight's game. Zito was a different pitcher after that sequence (at least, that was my impression from the 3rd base line).

[dlhunter]

Sophist- FWIW, Giants are tied w/ the Reds for best fielding percentage in the NL (.989) and lowest errors (47, compare with the Cubs, the worst at 94).

[Sophist]

Bad question I have for tomorrow is whether or not Brown starts. I don't think he does. If he were going to start, who would he start for? I think Werth may actually be the most likely guy. Don't see it happening.

[Fatalotti]

The Phillies, should they take this series from the Giants, welcome the Nats to town, and although that team always plays us tough, I fully expect us to handle them. Afte rthat is Houston, and we had better take 3 of 4 in that series. And then a very big series as far as I'm concerned at San Diego, where they get to test themselves against the top team in the NL. Bruce Ruffin, I understand your enthuisiasm, and if this team is healthy all year, especially with the addition of Oswalt, they are a 100 win team. I'd love for them to win the division, and I think they will, but get this team in to the postseason, and believe me, they can win. Notable series they've won being the road team in the last 2 years in the playoffs: The Dogers in the NLCS last year and the WS two years ago. Being on the road, while not optimum, doesn't scare me.

[thephaithful]

great win tonight. Absolutely loved how they waited out Zito for a few inning and then pounced on him once he got tired, reminded me of last few playoff runs.

Chooch is a madman! unstoppable with men on base latley, gotta love it.

What did everyone think of the balk, i couldnt really tell from the upperdeck but i thought it was a prety awkward looking move.

I shouldn't nitpik, but how do they let Vic steal on a 3-0 count with 0 outs up 1 run?! I know that he is a dufus but why can't Lopes or somoene predict his stupidity and warn him beforehand.

[Sophist]

hunter - yeah, they're 7th in MLB in defensive efficiency as well. Without digging very deep, I'd bet it has something to do with their SP flyball tendencies. I bet Torres is an excellent fielder (though he looked a bit Victorino-like chasing down that Utley FB). Their BAbip on groundballs is below average -- 3 of the 4 I mentioned were IF. Not sure about Fontenot's defense, but he had the other error tonight. That or I'm just wrong. Just doesn't look like a strong IF defense.

[Bruce Ruffin]

Fatalotti -- Clearly, I'm off my nut (with apologies to the greatest generation!). However, more Patton:

Patton: This is where it pays off, the training and the discipline. No other outfit in the world could pull out of a winter battle, move a hundred miles, go into a major attack with no rest, no sleep, no hot food. God... God, I'm proud of these men!

That's how I feel about the '10 Phils. No team has ever faced greater adversity, and showed not a trace of quit!

[Tim from Williamsport]

SO............what did I miss?

[Jack]

Sophist: Considering his struggles hitting lefty this year, he should start for Shane, if he starts at all.

But I agree, I don't think he will.

[Sophist]

Jack, I wasn't really thinking of should. Vic has been swinging a good bat since he got back, and plays better defense in center than Werth; think they will enough to keep him in the lineup so long as he's feeling healthy.

Manuel seems set on Ibanez for the most part at this point (though I bet he gets some days off during this long stretch, esp. against though lefties).

Werth seemed like a good candidate, even though he's been hitting too, since he's played in more games than any other Phillie this year.

In other news,

Matt Cain SIERA 4.15 (.260 BAbip),
Joe Blanton SIERA 4.37 (.332 BAbip)

Hmm.

[vegas]

Nice job settling in by Roy(2)tonight. Two nice efforts in a row.

[Sophist]

Something I just saw: Werth is hitting .340/.426/.634 at home before tonight. Wow.

Polanco is "only" hitting .307 at home. He's hitting .331/.372/.427 on the road (which is just 2 points below Werth's away OPS).

Ruiz has the second highest away OPS among "regulars" (behind Howard).

[gobaystars!]

Sophist, thanks for debunking SIERA. That is what you were going for, right?

[Hugh Mulcahy]

I like Brown and would like to see him play. Not likely tomorrow. Can't see sitting Werth at this point, unless it's an obvious rest day. Victorino lit it up tonight so I'd leave him in, too. Ibanez needs to see the righty. Tough carrying him as a 4th/ 5th outfielder.

[Pizzda]

Phils are 19-5 since July 21st. Best in baseball.

[Pizzda]

"I shouldn't nitpik, but how do they let Vic steal on a 3-0 count with 0 outs up 1 run?! I know that he is a dufus but why can't Lopes or somoene predict his stupidity and warn him beforehand."

Yea, that really ruined the game. The Vic bashing is getting dumber by the second.

[Baumer]

Even with that record, still ranked 11th on ESPN's Power Rankings (the true judgment of supremacy in baseball)...

*sarcasm should be noted

[bay_area_phan]

I kind of liked the steal. Just because it's a 3-0 count doesn't mean a walk is inevitable. And, on a 3-0 pitch, you've got the element of surprise going for you -- which is probably the only way you ever steal on Ray, since his delivery is so quick. The fact that we were ahead by 1 run was MORE reason to steal, since an insurance run would have been very helpful.

[bay_area_phan]

For the first 2/3 of the season, Beerleaguer posters were in a tizzy that we weren't stealing enough bases. Now that we're stealing more bases, Beerleaguer posters are in a tizzy that we're stealing them at the wrong times.

The bottom line is that, no matter what the game situation, a successful stolen base ALWAYS puts you in better position to score. I understand that, in certain game situations, the potential benefit of stealing a base is generally outweighed by the risk of getting caught. But the cost/benefit analysis isn't the same for all base stealers. Rollins, Vic, Werth & Utley are all very high-percentage base stealers who rarely get caught. If they think they can make it, they're right about 90% of the time. So I would tend to trust their judgment in almost any game situation.

[J.R. King]

I heard the stolen base on the radio. Anderson was loving it. It caught everyone by surprise and gave Sweeney two opportunities to get Vic over to third. A nice play.

[awh]

bap, I would tend to agree with you escept for one thing: I think you're slightly exaggerating regarding the success of the Fantastic Four. 90% sounds a little high.

[HammRadio]

Fantastic Four sb/att %
2010 -- 89%
2009 -- 84%

[HammRadio]

2008 -- 87%
2007 -- 89%

[awh]

"Can anyone name one game the Phils lost this year because Charlie couldn't bring in a bullpen pitcher due to overwork?"

phlipper, I missed that last night. I'm not sure you're asking the right question.

Perhaps the better question would be:

Can anyone name one game the Phillies lost this year because Charlie brought in an overworked bullpen pitcher?

[awh]

Hamm, thanks. It sounded just a little high.

[steve]

When will the Braves start losing>?!?!?!?! 19-5 is best in baseball over the last 24 games and we are still 2.5 back, ridiculous. Maybe the Nats can win a couple games for us in a row here.

[Fatalotti]

I love those baseball rankings. They make a point to let the viewer know that the rankings aren't a prediction of where a team will end the season, but they are a question of who, at that time, is playing the best baseball. Of course, if that were the case, the Phillies wouldn't be 11, so that isn't the case, and therefore, it ends up being nothing more than a subjective list of someone's picks of who's most likely to win it all. But if you're wondering who is playing the best baseball right now, a very good case can be made for the Phillies. Tough starting pitching from 4 of their 5 starters over the last month, good production throughout the lineup, and the bullpen, despite a couple bad outings, has been generally solid, including probably the best reliever in baseball right now, Ryan Madson.

[p. Red]

The backend of our bullpen is starting to resemble its form of '08. Their August numbers:

Madson - 9.1 IP, 5 H, 3 BB, 0 ER, 17 K
Lidge - 6.1 IP, 2 H, 0 BB(!), 0 ER, 7 K, 6 SV

If these two can keep this up, with Howard and Utley coming back, and H20 anchoring the rotation... watch out Braves.

[awh]

steve, the Phils were 7 back not too long ago. They've closed pretty quickly to put some pressure on the Bravos.

Many of us here were saying in ST (I'll pat myself on the back, but there were others) that the division was going to be a dog fight this season, though I expected the Fish and Mets to be a little better.

Can the Braves keep winning at the pace they've been winning (11-5 in Aug, .688; 8-2 in their last 10 games)? I don't think so, but I don't think they'll collapse either.

Can the Phillies continues to win at the pace they've been winning (11-3 in Aug, 7-3 in their last 10 games)? I sure hope so, but, realistically, the answer is the same as that for the Braves.

Keep in mind that they were 3.5 games back on July 31, and they've closed 1 game since then. They got to within 1 game 10 games ago, but such is the ebb and flow of the season.

So, the dogfight may just come down to (and IMHO is likely to) the 6 games head-to-head with the Braves the last 2 weeks of the season, and may come down to the series in ATL the last weekend.

I hope the Phils have clinched the division before then, but I have a feeling we're headed for some excitement.

Get you tickets to that series in ATL now, before the prices go up.

[jason.tp]

oldphan: i just thought it was a dumb move, my post was entirely positive, and just had that one thing to nitpick - and even prefaced it by saying it was just a nitpikc and not a major problem.

So not sure why you took that as "that ruined the game".

Vic had a great game and is really due to have a hot stretch run since his OBP is still below .320 - i just dont think a steal attempt in that position is worth the risk.

I will admit that Vic's SB% speaks for itself, and BAP's point that being up a run gives them a lil more leeway to take risk thne they would if it was tie/trailing a run. Overall, I wouldn't recommend it.

To use your words, posters' over reaction to any sidenote is getting dumber by the second.

[The_Pope]

Anyone know the Phils record for the 43 games that Utley missed?

[awh]

yo, new thread.