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Sunday, July 25, 2010

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Big win for the Phils.

Don't trade Werth. Please.

Jack, I'm with you on that.

Seriously, just don't trade Werth.

And Garza spits too much. No thanks.

they had a tough time in Chitown, but their hardships in St. Louis was overblown. Losing to Jamie Garcia and Chris Carpenter on the road isn't a sign that this team was hopeless as is.

I'm not against adding pitching, but i dont think it should be at the expense of the everyday lineup.

Trade Werth if it's part of a trade for a decent (as in, better than #4) starter. He's not going to be a Phillie in '11, so they might as well deal him for a player the team can actually use in the foreseeable future.

Also, thanks to Hall of Fame Weekend, Sunday Night Baseball is blissfully Hall of Fame Second Baseman Joe Morgan free.

If they are going to turn this around Werth is going to be key. Ben Fran is not the guy you want to be batting behind Howard in a pennan race. Rube, do the smart thing and keep him please!

Keep Werth.
We're going to get in. If we do, we have a legit chance to win the whole thing. Home field ad for the NL.

GTown, that would make sense only if we didn't need Werth for WFC2 this year. Which we do (imo).

"Also, thanks to Hall of Fame Weekend, Sunday Night Baseball is blissfully Hall of Fame Second Baseman Joe Morgan free."

GTown, Thanks for that info. Now I might actually watch with the sound on!

"And Garza spits too much"

Marley, great point. What's up with that?

Marley: If any single position player was that important to a team's post season fortunes, Barry Bonds would have a World Series ring. I'd keep a #1 or #2 starter for his potential playoff value, not a RF who's hitting .167 w/ RISP.

Also, I entirely agree RE: Garza & the spitting. Dude's out of control. BP should cap him next.

I'd say at this point, only some fine-tuning may be needed.

I'd look for a more "cost-effective" and "getable" starter. Kinda like they did last year by signing Pedro off the street.

This team has 5 capable starting pitchers. They might want to add another one (and then slide Kendrick back into the "swing-role"/long man in the pen.

Don't trade Happ. Don't trade Werth. Buck Martinez and David Wells basically said the same thing today. So are most of the national guys.

If this team can just score a few runs, they have good enough starting pitching and a more then good enough bullpen (although Lidge will still be Lidge).

There is really no need at this point, to be desperate for a starting pitcher. If there is a competent one out there, that won't break the financial bank and won't cost you too many of your Class A and Class AA prospects, then go for it.

Halladay and Hamels are studs. Get a nice #3/#4 guy if you can. That would pair up with Happ (who when healthy is a solid #3/#4 guy and Blanton (who at least shows some signs of pitching more like a #4 starter again) for a solid rotation.

And you still have Ole' Reliable Kendrick ready to go, as your security blanket down in the pen.

That is the tact they should take at this point. The schedule is pretty soft for a while now. The Phils will make their move now (like they usually do) and should be right there 2 weeks from today.

Thankful they didn't get suckered into Haren. He will get bombed in the AL and will fade down the stretch (again) for a team that isn't going to catch Texas anyway.

Oswalt's heart isn't into it and he is probably looking at retirement very soon. Let him stay in Houston and play for a dead team.

Take a cue from Gillick and stand pat.

Don't do a thing - the biggest questions this spring were:
Hamels: will it be Hamels of '08 or '09
Lidge: will it be Lidge of '08 or '09
Polanco: can he catch the ball at 3rd

We have to be pretty pleased on all these fronts. And, Werth will come back - a good second half could be tens of millions more for him. No need to make a move at the deadline.

The dropoff between Werth and who might replace him in the lineup < the difference between a SR with and without Oswalt as your #3 starter.

For example, the difference Werth and Ben Fran, < the difference between Oswalt and Blanton as your #3 starter.

denny b. -- I love your stuff. You write clearly and always cut to the chase. However, how's Blanton better than KK? I could cite last 10 game stats but I'm tied up with the grill and dinner right now...

IMHO, Blanton still wears down too quickly. KK is one durable kid; he needs to understand that anything he throws down in the zone is OK, as this team's defense makes up for one heck of a lot of mistakes.

Entertain offers for werth and see what we could get. If we like what is on the table, take it and slit in Dom. If not, then walk away.
If o had to guess what's wrong with him, I'd say free agency is in his head. I'd bet big money that he'll be outstanding next year, so hope we get to dollar for him if we do trade him.

Curious about all the scouts in attendance for all the various players. Don't they pretty much know the MLB talent at this point?

BTW, I was content with what we saw from Happ today.

I was hoping for 6 IP and 3 runs or less. Almost got that.

I thought he got himself in trouble in the 2nd inning by throwing too many off-speed pitches. He got away from his fastball/cutter and started nibbling too much with other pitches. He got himself out of the jam, by going back to his best pitch.

His fastball looked fine and he was moving it in and out and up and down, like he usually does. I was surprised he used his curveball as much as he did early. That is his 5th best pitch, behind his fastball, cutter, slider and changeup. Not sure why he went with that and that pitch was left up in the zone too much.

I thought the crowd was a bit energized by seeing him back on the mound though. They were into the game in the 1st inning.

Overall, there were more positives then negatives and the team eventually won the game. That's always most important, BTW.

Also the Pigs got another win tonight (6th in 7 games) with a 3-2 win. Stutes pitched 2 solid innings of relief for the win. Bastardo with his 3rd save (and his AAA ERA remains at 0.00).

Mayberry drew a leadoff walk in the 8th, promptly stole 2nd (13 for 13 in SB attempts) and came home on a Neil Sellers knock.

Brown has played RF this weekend in all 3 games, BTW.

Phlipper: If that difference is so small (between Werth and Francisco, or whoever replaces him in the lineup), then surely the "protection" issue has been overblown, no?

I believe I've demonstrated my less-than-stellar baseball acumen before, so don't kill me on this, but what is the necessity, or gain I guess, for using a PTBNL? Why doesn't the team include this mystery player immediately? Is the decision to go with a PTBNL to the benefit of the giving team (the team he currently plays for) or the receiving team? Thanks!

Pretty funny. Werth has a few terrible weeks in a .900 OPS season and we can't trade him fast enough to suit most of Beerleaguer. Then he has 3 good games and absolutely no one wants to trade him.

Is Garza the so-called No. 4 starter under discussion? I'm not saying I'd trade Werth for him, but he's a hell of a lot better than a No. 4 starter.

Jack - first, I didn't say that it was "so small." Secondly, the differences between Werth and whomever might replace him extend to far more than just their relative "protection" of Howard.

As to whether the protection issue is "overblown" - that statement is entirely relative. It's like when denny b. says that the Phils' offense has been "overrated."

What does that mean? If you're saying that statistics show that the protection effect is less than what people generally think - I'd agree with you. If that's what you mean by it's being "overblown," fine, knock yourself out. But the fact that the difference between Werth and Ben Fran is smaller than the difference between Oswalt and Blanton doesn't logically disprove a protection effect.

bap: was thinking the exact same thing.

Ishmael- in this case, the ptbnl is used because Skaggs can't be traded until a full year after he signed his first contract, so he's not eligible to be traded til mid August.

BAP - It *is* funny.

Ishmael, don't know the rationale off the top of my head, but guys drafted and signed can't be traded within the year of the signing. So a 2009 draftee who signed in August, can't technically be traded until August.

Ugh, just remembered what the DBacks gave up to get Haren too (package included Carlos Gonzalez and Brett Anderson). Just a terrible, terrible trade.

Ruffin,

Not saying that Blanton has been better then KK this year. He clearly hasn't been.

And I am not saying KK should lose his rotation spot either.

But if it comes down to Blanton versus Kendrick for the 5th spot in the rotation (if they acquire a starter in the next couple of weeks), then we all know who will be kept in the rotation and who will be sent to the bullpen. KK would probably be better in the long-man role then Blanton and Blanton's contract is too big to not pitch him every 5th day.

Might not be fair, but that will be what the Phils do. Kendrick should not lose his roster spot though under ANY circumstances. He doesn't belong at AAA.

The key will be Happ, and how he pitches in the next couple of weeks. As I have said all year, his loss has been a big one and his return could be a big shot in the arm for everyone. Not expecting the 12-4 with a sub 3 ERA guy the rest of 2010. But I think he's very capable of winning at least 5 or 6 games down the stretch and pitching better then Moyer would have.

" Werth has a few terrible weeks in a .900 OPS season and we can't trade him fast enough to suit most of Beerleaguer. Then he has 3 good games and absolutely no one wants to trade him."

It is pretty funny how that works, isn't it?

Also, for months we've been hearing that the Phils need to get something for Werth because there's no way that he's going to resign with the team - now it doesn't really matter because they'll get a couple of draft picks.

It is funny, BAP. But I feel exactly that way. My hopes for achieving the postseason were on their deathbed; now that they've been revived with the revival of the offense, I want Werth around to help out! Since he seems to be reviving, too.

Buster Olney:

On the Haren trade, it's worth remembering what Ariz. gave up: Brett Anderson, Carlos Gonzalez, C.Carter, A.Cunningham, G.Smith, and Dana Eveland. In return, they get a middle-of-the-road lefty in Joe Saunders, a B-plus/A-minus prospect in Corbin, a journeyman reliever and a player to be named, who will not be an elite prospect. This will feed into perception Arizona had to move the $.

Regarding Haren, the good news is that at least he didn't go to the Reds, Cardinals, or some other NL WC contender. (Or the Yankees for that matter). Keep him in the AL, that's fine by me.

@b_a_p:

What, baseball fans, fickle? Color me shocked, SHOCKED!

I think it's less about Werth having a great week and more about the Phillies showing some life (yes, those two correlate some).

It makes some sense to move Werth if the team is passing on this year's post-season and looking to next year's -- we could get majors-ready players instead of draft picks. It makes no sense to move him if we're in the hunt this year -- whoever we get to replace him is likely to be a downgrade in the short run.

Say, Jack, one of your reasons why Howard will be an "albatross" for the Phils going forward was his negative trend in hitting against LHP.

How long will that trend need to continue before he'll no longer be an albatross?

Actually, philwynk makes a good point. Your evaluation of the idea of trading worth could logically be contingent on your evaluation of how likely they are to make the playoffs. So it really isn't only a matter of fans being fickle.

Sorry - I should have said how long will his reversal of that trend need to continue before he'll no longer be an albatross?

You can both keep this year's playoff chances where they are and upgrade the 2011-2013 team in a move involving Werth, esp. if some other regulars pick it up and Brown plays well. That said, Amaro can make an upgrade in the rotation and not move Werth.

"whoever we get to replace him is likely to be a downgrade in the short run."

Again - that downgrade needs to be weighed against a potentially major upgrade to the starting rotation.

What will the downgrade and upgrade be in reality? The details here matter, and methinks there shouldn't be a blanket judgment one way or the other as to whether Werth should be traded or not.

Few things:

- Didn't last year and don't get his year the love that Happ generally gets on here especially given his shaky health history. He was the guy I was hoping they would move this offseason and not Drabek. If the Phils can get Oswalt for a package built around Happ, I would do it in a heartbeat and I hope Amaro does too for this year and next.

- Picking up that option though for $16M though is a bit of a dicey gamble.

- Still don't think Amaro is going to sit on his hands. Not his style.

- Don't think this team as currently constituted can catch the Braves nor win the WC. They need help.

- Phils have good starting pitching? After their 1-2, they have a guy who has the worst ERA in the NL among starters (Blanton), a guy who is a real question mark this year (Happ), and No. 5 (KK). This team could certainly use another starter this year and next year.

- If Werth gets the Phils a young starter who is MLB-ready and the Phils can control for the next few years, I hope they move him. He isn't coming back here and those 2 compensation picks are at least 3 years away from helping this team if they ever do. Some team is going to give him that 4-5 year deal at $16-18M this offseason and really regret the last 2 years of that deal.

The devil will be in the details, but if Oswalt is acquired, and then Werth is traded, the acquisition of Oswalt will be muted by Werth being dealt. Much like the Halladay euphoria, only to have the reality of the Lee part set in. It could end up pheeling like 1/2 a good move was made. I'm sure RAJ knows he's gotta make a bold, but smart move(s)

phlipper: To get back into the debate over protection, my issue with your take is that you've acknowledged that the studies are correct "on average", but that this specific situation is so unique as to be the exception to it.

But I just haven't been convinced. Studies show that star players will produce no matter who hits behind them. Why is Francisco/Ibanez/Rollins, whoever, hitting behind Howard instead of Werth so unique a situation as to not count in terms of the general studies? It seems to me this is pretty much a completely standard example--a star payer who is having the player hitting behind him slightly downgraded. Those guys are not Jayson Werth, but they're also not Wilson Valdez.

All of the studies that have been done say that the likelihood that this will have a significant effect on Howard is very small. You acknowledge these studies being correct, but still say they don't apply to this specific situation. But I don't get why.

Now that Dan Haren is off the board I think the best option for the Phils is Fausto Carmona. I think Oswalt is a great pitcher with a winning mentality, however his contract is ugly especially if you must take on the option. Carmona is under control till '11 with 3 club options. $4.9 million in 2010 and $6.1 million in 2011.The club options are worth $7 million in 2012; $9 million in 2013; and $12 million in 2014. Very affordable for a guy with a winning record on the INDIANS and a 3.50 ERA.

Sophist - Wow. That was a pretty disastrous set of transactions for the DBacks. They looked like they accepted $.60 on the dollar for Haren and I do remember reading the DBacks had a pretty high debt service level.

Angels were able to likely take advantage of it just like the Phils were with Lee last year. Especially when they got Francisco as a free throw-in.

"Pretty funny. Werth has a few terrible weeks in a .900 OPS season and we can't trade him fast enough to suit most of Beerleaguer. Then he has 3 good games and absolutely no one wants to trade him."

BAP, this surprises you?

MG, I agree with everything you just wrote. Except that Kendrick isn't a #5. #5 pitchers have ERAs near 6. Kendrick is league average.

MG, Yeah, I think the Angels were able to take advantage of the DBacks, but the question is why someone didn't outbid them given the poop on a plate the Angels offered.

Beard, your companion trade scenario is one of my fears.

Old Phan: The only part that surprises me is that all these people are publically flip-flopping, & I haven't joined them yet.

Does Haren to the Halo's now make Ed Wade sweat a bit more? I would think so, even with Skaggs, it seems like the Dbacks got fleeced. Ed Wade's gotta be staring at his cell "please ring, please ring, please ring...". I'm with whichever commentator suggested it (apologies for forgetting the name), I think Oswalt goes tonight.

Just Dont trade Happ. Could care less if they trade Werth

"Pretty funny. Werth has a few terrible weeks in a .900 OPS season and we can't trade him fast enough to suit most of Beerleaguer. Then he has 3 good games and absolutely no one wants to trade him."

I gotta admit, seeing myself referred to as "absolutely no one" kinda hurts.

It seems that most conversations about trades assume that it produces either a playoff slot, or increased potential for winning out the World Series.

Standing pat assumes that the team has all it needs to achieve the former result, but does anyone else feel uncomfortable with the choices currently available to the Phillies for their number three starter if they get to the playoffs?

Hearing all of the praise being lavished on Marlon Byrd by the ESPN wanks tonight is making me feel kinda puke-ish.

For the record, I'm pretty sure I didn't advocate trading Werth, even when he was struggling with RISP, sleeping with other players' wives, and also killing babies (while striking out with a guy on third). Unless you could get a guy like Jeremy Hellickson, which is clearly out of the question.

For anyone who knows: What would the Pirates be scouting the Phils for? Possible trade for Meek or Hanrahan? Dotel? Or are they there for the Rockies?

Regardles of KK and Happ the lat 2 games, the rotation needs an upgrade. If Oswalt goes to the Cards, upgrading the rotation will be very difficult.

It does not appear we're going to move Raul, so it looks like Werth could be the one. I would only trade him if he is not going to be re-signed.

Ishmael - Pirates play the Rockies this week. Could be as simple as that.

Call me Ishmael: I said this the other day, but around this time of year, reporters who need to write copy to satisfy their reputations as info-gatherers put out "saw scouts from team A at game of team B, maybe a trade is coming" all the time. It means nothing.

All teams scout all other teams. It's part of their due diligence, especially at this time of year. Don't read anything more into it.

And the Pirates' scouts were probably doing advance work looking at the Rockies. They play them later this week.

GTown: I still kind of feel the same way I felt before. This winning streak is nice & it has enabled us to pick up a couple games on Atlanta. But we're still 5 out of the division lead and we haven't picked up any ground at all in the WC race, where we remaing 3.5 behind the Giants. The Phillies are still longshots to make the playoffs this year & you have to balance those slim odds of making the playoffs against the team's longer-term interests.

All of which leads me to the same place I was before Werth started hitting again: I WOULD trade him, but only if someone presents us with an opportunity to substantially improve ourselves for next year and beyond. 2 draft picks won't do that, since anyone we'd draft would presumably be 3 or 4 years away from contributing.

To me, Oswalt would fit the bill. As for Matt Garza, I'm surprised there's so little enthusiasm for him among the peanut gallery. The guy's still only 26, has ridiculously good stuff, is under team control through 2013, and is already a substantially above average pitcher. If he never improves at all, we'll merely have a very good pitcher for the next 3 1/2 years. If he improves his command/control by a fair amount, he's got ace potential.

Is Garza even a possibility?

That's true Jack, but I think there's a lot more reality to it in the time leading up to the deadline.

"Regardles of KK and Happ the lat 2 games, the rotation needs an upgrade."

If Blanton actually wakes up and starts pitching again and Happ pitches well, that will be your "upgrade".

The starting rotation has kept the Phils afloat in 2010.

I'd love Garza, but are the Rays even talking about moving him?

Thanks Sophist and Jack. I follow more of the 'child on Christmas Eve' philosophy when it comes to trade speculations. "Look at the shape of that package, it could be a new glove, right? Right?!?!" Then, I'm inevitably left with the feeling I just unwrapped more underwear. (not so much with C__ L__ in '09, but we're not supposed to talk about that anymore)

Just to be clear, I would probably not trade Werth straight-up for Matt Garza, although I'd be tempted. Garza could be an elite pitcher some day, but he's certainly not yet. Plus, he's having a down year, which substantially diminishes his trade value. Because of that, I would hold out for another very good prospect before pulling the trigger.

It's not like I'm dying to trade Werth. I'd only do it if the right deal came along.

b_a_p: I agree, esp. w/ regard to the potential value of draft picks as opposed to the potential value someone who can contribute for the next couple of seasons. I haven't been impressed by Garza when I've seen him, but then again I haven't seen him enough to have a completely informed opinion.

If two teams (Minnesota and Tampa) would be willing to move Garza already, what does that tell you about the kid?

Good young pitchers, are treated like gold. And these teams keep looking to get rid of Garza. More "red flags".

He's a head case. Pass.

The Phillies are 5 back with 60 something games to play. What do I think about Werth/Oswalt trade speculation???

WHO CARES????

LET'S GO PHILLIES

what does that say about Cliff Lee, denny?

Bedrosian's Beard-
Cliff Lee ain't 26.

I'll take Garza.

And I'll trade Werth if it's for Garza.

No flip flopping here.

And I am also glad Haren was traded out of the league rather than strengthen potentially a rival.

And I really don't want them to take on Oswalt's contract, but I fear Rube will do just that. Then we'll be wondering who has to be jettisoned all offseason and next year because they've busted the budget. When they talk like that, I can no longer live in my fantasy world where I think the Phillies are the Yankees. And that's depressing.

While it's nice to think that Haren getting traded for nothing will lower the price on Oswalt, basic supply and demand says the opposite will occur. With Oswalt the only top starter left on the market, you'd think Wade would be raising the price in phone calls tonight and tomorrow.

Garza was traded by Minnesota because he threw tantrums. I think that has been a non-factor for a couple years now in TB.

I think Tampa just has some young kids coming along, and they're very cheap, the team that is.

Here's a fearless prediction. Look for Brett Myers to be a Phillie again by the deadline.

Any takers on a bet?

I don't think it says anything. He was traded to TB for a guy who had "anger" issues, but was a top prospect.

Blanton will be fine if we simply recognize that he is a 6 inning pitcher. He has not been the innings eater he was supposed to be but he can be very effective for 6.
He always comes unglued late in games.

Garza was traded by Minnesota because Minnesota was willing to take a risk on Delmon Young, a former consensus top prospect in baseball who was still young, but had problems in Tampa.

That trade was less about Minnesota dumping Garza and more about them wanting to acquire Young. Credit Tampa for good scouting in getting Garza AND Jason Bartlett.

"Blanton will be fine if we simply recognize that he is a 6 inning pitcher."

Not "we", mwbbfan, "Charlie".


You don't need any of those guys. You have me!

Jack, basic economics would also dictate that Haren would be traded for more than the Angels package, but he wasn't. As long as their are differences of opinion and personalities involved (and money), it's hard to say how the Haren trade will effect the Oswalt market.

BAP - I would trade Werth straight up for Garza in a heartbeat.

Tampa's obviously interested in Werth & I saw Garza's name mentioned on the thread (mostly in connection with his spitting). So I inferred that perhaps he was the subject of some Jayson Werth rumors. I've also seen his name bandied about on MLBTR once or twice.

BTW, it's not like Minnesota just gave Garza away as a throw-in, the way we did with Ryne Sandberg. The Twins traded him for Delmon Young, who was probably the top prospect in baseball at the time.

There's just no way Garza is on the market.

Notoriously fickle Beerleaguers will undoubtedly be die-hard fans of Garza's spitting habit later in the week.

Sophist: To augment my last post . . . Garza's name kept getting mentioned &, since he's having a down year, I inferred that he was this mysterious "No. 4 starter" that people were talking about. I was incredulous that he was being described in such terms.

Jack - I'm saying that it is very difficult to determine what is or is not a "standard example."

For example, one of the studies cj linked showed that the quality of the on deck player does correlate with significant differences in the number of walks and strikeouts for the player at bat. The found that, indeed, having a lower ability on deck batter resulted in the player at bat getting poorer quality pitches. They found a particular overall impact of an increased number of walks and strikeouts, but no doubt, that correlation value could very well vary depending on the characteristics of the batters involved.

They concluded, that the quality of the on deck batter didn't affect the results of the balls put into play by the hitters ahead of them. In other words, having a poorer quality of pitches to hit didn't, on average, affect the productivity of those batters. My argument is that while it might be true that on average, having poorer quality pitches to hit might not affect a batter's results, it may may a difference with individual batters. Perhaps if you have a high strikeout batter who doesn't draw may walks, you would see an increase in strikeouts without an equally proportional increase in walks. Some batters might be more affected by having poorer quality pitches to hit than others.


The study you linked to used a "effort" variable to explain their counter-intuitive results; they concluded that pitchers' increased "effort" counteracted the differences in the quality of the hitters. However, they don't allow for an "effort" variable on the part of a batter. Some batters might be more prone to "overswinging" if they aren't "protected" than others - resulting in a "negative effort effect." Other batters might bear down harder resulting in a "positive effort effect." An average of a null effect overall on the effort of batters in aggregate might hide a positive or negative "effort" affect on individual batters.

My point, anyway, Jack - is not to say that it would necessarily be more applicable to Howard's situation than others. But my point is that, undoubtedly, it is true that depending on the quality of the batter behind him, pitchers will vary the degree to which they "pitch around" him in high leverage situations. The results of that strategy in general might be balanced by an increase in base runners due to a walk - but generalizing that pattern can miss that all players may not be equally more likely to walk, and not all "protection" players will be equally likely to drive the runner in.

Let me make my point another way. If you were a manager and you had runners on second and third and a strong #8 hitter up, would you not pitch around that batter to bring up a weak-hitting pitcher - on the assumption that pitching around hitters, on average, doesn't result in fewer runs scored? My guess is that you would pitch around that #8 hitter on the assumption that the pitcher is far less likely to hurt you.

Boy, there's a shock - BAP is pessimistic about the Phils' playoff chances for this year. I never would have predicted that.

Just a technical point, BAP, we haven't made up ground on SF in the WC race, but we have made up ground against other WC contenders.

Clearly, Atlanta has to come back to earth a little. After all, it's the Phillies who specialize in the bases loaded save. If I were a drinking man, Brad Lidge might drive me to drink. Since I'm not, he drives me to Pepcid.

Matt Garza:

W-L 10-5
ERA 4.36
K 91
Walks 40
WHIP 1.32

Pro-rata, isn't this J.A. Happ?

I don't want to be traded and I don't want Mrs. Utley. I just want to Tampa with her.

Matt Garza is pitching in the AL East. And he's healthy.

For the record Matt Garza has stated he doesn't want to pitch in Philly because he is frightened of Tony Luke.

bay_area_phan/ others: Why would Tampa want Jayson Werth? Isn't he the prima facie case for "regression to the mean"?

@ak he should be afraid of Charlie Manuel bat day

Pitching probables for upcoming week...

D-BACKS-

Tuesday- Hamels vs. ????
Wednesday- Halladay vs. Rodrigo Lopez
Thursday- Kendrick vs. Edwin Jackson


at NATS-

Friday- Happ vs. JD Martin
Saturday- Blanton vs. Ross Detwiler
Sunday- Hamels vs. Steven Strasburg


Those aren't exactly a bunch of unhittable guys (until next Sunday) in the next week.

Halladay would pitch again in Florida on Tuesday August 3rd, to start that series.

I'd rather have the Haren end of the Angels deal too, but I'm not sure this is as lopsided as some are making it out to be. Saunders is a decent #4 and will eat Haren's innings. One of the guys is a fringe prospect, Rodriguez, a Domincan baby bonus bust. But Corbin and Skaggs are legit LHP prospects with decent upsides.

Corbin was #12 and Skaggs #8 on BA's pre-season list of Angels' top prospects and putting up solid #s so far. Corbin is 21 and Skaggs only 19. Corbin has a decent fastball and slider and can be expected to pick up a bit of velocity on his 89-91 mph heater. He projects as a #3 or #4. Skaggs is even better, as he's younger and throws harder (92-93) and has a plus slider. He could be a #1 or #2.

Of course projecting single A pitchers is a hazardous business (think Jason Knapp), but the package the D'backs are getting has some value.

hey, did you guys hear, Haren got traded

Anyone else feel like we're bidding against ourselves for Oswalt at this point? Barring the unforeseen, like the Angels swooping in for Haren, which I read nowhere in the lead up to that trade, I would venture a guess that we'll have pitchers Roy by the end of the month.

clout: I have no doubt that it has some value, but is that really the best deal they could get? The vast majority of baseball people who have weighed in so far think this deal weighed heavily in the Angels favor.

"If Blanton actually wakes up and starts pitching again and Happ pitches well, that will be your "upgrade"."

"The starting rotation has kept the Phils afloat in 2010."

Denny B.~ There's 3 big "ifs" after Doc & Cole. While you're right about what the rotation has done so far, don't forget that Moyer has 9 wins. He's no longer there unfortunately. So therefore an upgrade is needed IMO.

While evaluating the Phils pitching staff, I think I heard that the collective ERA of any starter not named Halladay and Hamels is more than 5.00. That's not a recipe for success.

clout - It was a .60 or .70 cents on the dollar trade. Distressed asset that was bought for less than paper value.

denny b - Those are two upcoming series where the Phils need to win a minimum of 4 (and probably 5) games. They have already passed on golden opporutnities this month in losing 3 of 4 to the Pirates & Cubs.

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