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Monday, July 26, 2010



"Oswalt isn't worth that much. Go get Grienke if you're going to sell off that many pieces. Alright. That's enough indulging in this nonsense for me."

Sophist, if the Phillies gave up what the Astros want in order to get Oswalt, then it would also contradict to some extent their rationale for trading Lee: restocking the farm.

The FO (RAJ and Monty) would really look foolish giving up that much after publicly declaring their reasoning for shipping Lee off to Seattle.

Perhaps UC was simply sick of the guaranteed GIDP with Exxon.


I'm not saying DeWayne Wise is the savior - i'm saying that catching lightning a bottle from a AAAA guy has been BETTER than ben fran has been all year long. So it was more a knock on Francisco's early struggles than Wise's Future HoF status.

I will hereby call Joe Esposito: "Espo".

Howard's due for some hefty lifting

I said it in the previous thread, but the only way I meet McLane's demands is if he pays > 80% of Oswalt's salary.

Otherwise, he's dreaming.

Amazing how quickly Charlie backed off his stance that Polanco would stay at third. It was quite obvious that the better move for the team was for Polanco to play at 2nd and for Dobbs/Ransom to play 3rd.

Everyone could see that, from most of us on here, to obviously Charlie. It seemed like it was only a few people, determined to defend management and Charlie at all costs, who insisted that he was doing the right thing keeping Polly at 3rd. Even Charlie didn't buy that.

Jason said DeWayne Wise is a Hall of Famer!

Just kidding man, just kidding. But I wouldn't be suprised is someone accuses you of that in a few days.

"Everyone could see that, from most of us on here, to obviously Charlie. It seemed like it was only a few people, determined to defend management and Charlie at all costs, who insisted that he was doing the right thing keeping Polly at 3rd. Even Charlie didn't buy that. "

Well I will give UC props for doing the right thing and not sticking by what he said when it was wrongheaded.

I think Charlie said he didn't want Polanco to get out of habit/practice of playing 3B since that was why we signed him...

awh, it would which is why I don't think the deal is happening if the Astros stick to that price.

It sure would be nice if the Phils would recognize that in general they can count on at least 5 or 6 innings of very good pitching from their starters.
It would make a lot more sense if they could find pitchers who would be content to come in the 6th inning and finish the game. That would be a trade worth making. A high profile starter for Werth or minor league talent is really not going to fix the mistake already made last winter when we traded I forget his name.
There is no requirement for all of us to go through heart palpitations every time our official closer, Lidge, comes into the game. There are precious few Riveras on this planet. Not every club has to anoint a closer—especially when the guy can’t really close. Why would the Phils replace Francisco with Wise? Benny is making all of $470,000 this year. Are you saying he's a financial burden?

Or are you suggesting a slow start was a good reason to dump the guy? I mean, I know people are all about making a decision because 77 PAs are significantly worse than the first 1000 PAs of the guy's career.

For what it's worth:
Dewayne Wise in 51 PAs:
.874 OPS, 3 HR
Ben Francisco in last 48 PAs:
.933 OPS, 3 HR

I think we're fine there.

If we'd only kept Wise...he could have been the centerpiece in our deal for Oswalt...

UC also said that Werth was our starting CF at one point...

Jack- I wonder if Charlie just waited for Polly to settle in from his DL stint before he messed with the position change.
Polanco seems to be the same player in either position and in any spot in the order, which is not an adjustment all players make so well.

****awh, it would which is why I don't think the deal is happening if the Astros stick to that price. ****

I think its honestly 50/50 as to Oswalt being traded at all based on a couple things:

1. McLane loves the guy.
2. Ridiculous asking price
3. Haren's trade set the market very low

That said, I now worry that Rube has already made up his mind and he will now empty out the farm for Oswalt during the Winter.

" i'm saying that catching lightning a bottle from a AAAA guy is BETTER than ben fran has been all year long. So it was more a knock on Francisco's early struggles than Wise's Future HoF status."

Well, Francisco hasn't been good for most of the year, but if Alex Anthopoulos (the Jays' GM) has the ability to foresee the exact time when a .221/.258/.395 career hitter will catch lightning in a bottle, then I expect the Blue Jays will win the World Series for the next 10 years.


I wouldn't trade that much away for Oswalt even if the Astros paid 80% of his salary. For me to do that, I'd have to get a bona-fide young stud like Justin Verlander. Not someone who is 33.

My translation of McLane's demands is that he really doesn't want to make a deal. Now I do not recall (and I could be wrong on this) Oswalt saying he wants out.

Maybe RAJ should target a guy like Brett Myers. Even with his off-the-field problems, he could start or relieve (including close) and the cost to get him shouldn't be that steep. I doubt if Roob would do it though. Let's go for the sweep. Lot's of runs early and then cruise the rest of the game. GO Phils!

Are we seriously comparing Dewayne Wise and Ben Francisco?

I'm not sure I'd go nuts with a package for Oswalt either. In all honesty, I think Happ is fine. And yeah, go get Zach Greinke if you're going to go nuts on a pitcher trade that involves Happ.

"Now I do not recall (and I could be wrong on this) Oswalt saying he wants out. "

He did say he wanted to be traded a few months ago.

The Astros believe they can build around Brett Myers and aren't trying to trade him.

At least it's been made crystal clear that McLane is the one wielding the sword. Not sure that bodes well for us, but probably in the Astros' best interests.

This lineup feels like a stretch to sweep.

Oswalt has requested out of Houston. That is what spurred all of the trade talks to begin with.

Oswalt's Last 10 starts: 3-7, 4.65 ERA, 1.166 WHIP

Something to consider anyway.

to counter, the Rockies are sitting Hawpe, Iannetta, Fowler, and Mora...

awh, what I should say is that I don't think it will happen without a companion deal, and even then it's unlikely if that's the asking price.

if DeWayne Wise can take over the "unspoken one" as the topic of spilled milk, then I should get a Nobel Peace Prize.

Or how about Alfredo Simon's 3.03 and 14 Saves for the Orioles? Damn you 2006 Rule 5 pick that we had to surrender back! Or if we could have only held him out of the Ricky Leede for Felix Rodriguez deal in 2004!

NEPP - Oswalt's talent isn't really questionable. What is questionable (besides his age and possibly the financial commitment) is that the Astros have a terrible defense and team and that Oswalt's ERA is misleading.

Who has said Greinke is available?

Somehow or other, Jason Hammel has posted a 106 ERA+ in both 2009 & 2010. Hard to believe because, when you watch him pitch, there's really not much to get excited about. The Phillies have generally hit him quite well.


Sophist,we don't disagree.

I was just pointing out that giving up that much young talent would fly in the face of the Phillies' publicly stated reason for trading Lee in the first place.

Did you know Ricky Ledee's father, Toñito Ledée, was a legendary Salsa singer in Puerto Rico?

The more you know.™

awh: Absolutely no one, to my knowledge. But, if the guy plays for Royals, Pirates, Marlins, or A's, it's widely assumed that he'll eventually be traded. In Greinke's case, though, I don't see it happening this year. Why would they sign him to a 4-year extension, only to trade him the very next season?

Thanks for the info Brett.

After looking at Oswalt's track record against the Braves, I definitely wouldn't give Houston what they want.

Royals were reported to have said that none of their players are untouchable, and their have been Soria-NYY rumors lately. I think you'd have to blow them away with an offer, but there was a rumor.

B_A_P: To align the peaks of their young, cheap players into a playoff contender. If Grienk netted them one great and a few good almost ready MLB players it might work best with the younger, better players they already have. The Rays, for example, gamed this well.

I don't think they will, or should, do this, but it is an agrument in favor of doing so.

awh: I believe the Royals said they'd listen on anyone. I assume everybody will listen on anyone, but they're not saying they wouldn't trade him. It's a likely pipedream.

I'm not at all liking what I'm seeing from Blanton so far.


I'm still failing to understand why it is so important Polanco play 2B while Utley is out. Valdez is who he is, but so are Dobbs & Ransom, who are a combined 1 for 6 in the past 2 games. Put Polanco at 2B, put Polanco at 3B, put him on the freakin' moon ... in the end, an unqualified bench scrub is still gonna be starting for the Phillies until r00b makes a deal for an infielder or Utley comes back. It's a whole lot of hand-wringing over an essentially lateral move.

Oswalt and the Astros want too much for a tiny power pitcher. His next injury could end his career. I agree that we should go after Greinke or Fausto Carmona of the Indians before Oswalt. Or, it would not hurt me if we did not get Oswalt at all. Regarding Werth, we should consider James Shields of the Rays AND Willie Aybar as an excellent utility player who can contribute now. Then bring up Dom Brown.

Time to get Joe's stomach stapled...on the DL.

I have this inexplicable urge to say "Pull Blanton NOW." Where'd that come from?

Blanton came to play

Well now Blanton is going to blow up earlier.

This has the look of a disaster in the making.

Come on Joe... throw strikes.

Hope the offense is ready to play catch up.

Gtown - a 1/6 sample? Really?

Joe Blanton, however ... now there's a problem over which it is worth wringing one's hands!

Okay, damage minimized, I guess. Hate getting behind the 8-ball like that, but as usual, this team has to score to win.

It's hittin' season!

I'll chalk that up as a victory. Hopefully he settles down and gives us a few decent innings before his inevitable implosion in the 5th.

GIDP 2 hitters too late.

Dobbs has hit RHP .279/.326/.464 in the last 3 years and is .308/.400/.538 since the AS break. That's a bat they should be working into the lineup if the other choice is Wilson Valdez.

Can we get a great outing out of Blanton sometime soon? I'm tired of varying between cover your eyes awful and 3 runs in 6 innings. When 3 runs in 6 innings is the best the pitcher can do, that's bad.

Sophist: But you like small sample sizes. They're the cornerstone of your Ibañez defense.

Seriously, though, I don't expect Dobbs & Ransom to be any better from now through mid-August (or whenever it is Utley is due back) than Valdez would have been. Besides which, he's a better fielder at 2B than either of them are at 3B. Again, largely a lateral move. By-the-by, if the sample is too small to justify "blame", isn't it also too small to justify praise for making a switch?

C'mon Howard, now would be a great time to even things up.

Well let's hope Blanton doesn't explode any further.

Probably Gload is in RF so the scouts can take a look at him.

looks at Hammel with some balls. just went right at Ryno and got a K.

GTown Dave: But 2B is a more important defensive position. So generally, you would want to put your better relative defense there than at 3rd. Which is why it makes more sense to have Polanco at 2nd than 3rd, in addition to the fact that Dobbs against a righty is a better hitter than Valdez against anyone.

ESPN on Greinke:
Lots of Zack Greinke and Joakim Soria rumors flying in Kansas City. But teams we've surveyed say they see no sign either is going anywhere. The Yankees just made another run at Soria, as first reported by -- even dangling Jesus Montero. But the Royals weren't interested. And they've shown no serious inclination to deal Greinke, either. An official of one club that called said it was told: "We'll always listen. So if you want to throw enough names at us, feel free." But what the Royals actually want is a package led by multiple future ace-type starters. And that's a price no team would pay in this prospects-are-gold era we live in.

G-Town: I agree with you that Ransom's not a meaningful upgrade over Valdez on offense. He has more power and draws a lot more walks, but he's still terrible. Given Valdez's vast defensive superiority, I think it makes sense to start him against left-handers.

But Dobbs has been hitting very well since being called back up and, as long as that continues, he's a much better hitter than either Ransom or Valdez. I would do a platoon of Dobbs & Valdez, with Polanco staying at 3rd on the days when Valdez starts.

Blanton sucks. This is an issue.

Joe Blanton is pretty bad. I'm very happy we have him to the thrifty 3 year deal.

Big Joe is certainly not helping his WHIP in this outing.

A lot of Beerleaguer vitriol has been thrown Blanton's way in the first 2 innings of this game. Traditionally, when that happens, the guy proceeds to straighten himself out & pitch 6 scoreless innings.

Haha Jason Hammel was his community college's basketball team's mascot.

Speaking of which, I wouldn't be so sure Joe Blanton doesn't get mistaken for one of those inflated mascots occasionally.

Jack: Was Exxon that bad of a 2B to justify putting Dobbs, an awful 3B, out there? Again, I get the criticism of Valdez at the plate, but having Valdez & Polanco in the field has to be a net gain defensively over having Polanco & Dobbs/Ransom in the field.

Whatever. I really don't think it'll amount to any measurable difference either way. I'm simply surprised that Charlie is getting so much applause for changing something he wasn't (in my view) particularly "wrong" about in the first place.

"I would do a platoon of Dobbs & Valdez, with Polanco staying at 3rd on the days when Valdez starts."

b_a_p: That does make some sense to me.

This could be a day where Herndon sees some work..

Which means we'll have people grumbling that Figueroa is the key to getting to the post-season again.

Blanton, 40 pitches in two innings. Don't like him? This is your lucky day, he'll be gone by the 6th inning.

Valdez is hitting .237/.264/.366 for the Phils is his career numbers are worse than that. He's 1 for his last 16 and 4 for his last 30 (.133/.212/.167). Dobbs would have to be throwing grounders into the OF to offset his offensive upgrade.

TTI: Figgy would probably still be a Phillie if the FO didn't insist on carrying Herndon for the season. Just sayin'...

Valdez is also 7 for his last 47 (.143/.192/.224). It was time for him to ride the pine.

For all the crap Ibanez has gotten (and I've certainly given my share), the most disappointing season by a Phillie has to be Shane Victorino's. Other than some fluke power, he's been really, really bad this year.

It's sort of inexplicable why Werth is sitting & Vic is starting.

GTown: You've missed the debates, I suppose, where people have said a team that wants to go to the post-season keeps a guy like Figueroa on the team.

I personally don't mind keeping Herndon over Figgy because Figgy can get into trouble throwing strikes and I think with his sinker Herndon can be used in spot situations to coax a groundball.

That being said I agree that it would be best if he was in Triple A getting work and focusing on pitch development but he is up so we have to work with it.

Vic should be batting 9th.

Jack, considering his age, his power isn't really a fluke. Pretty likely that he might flirt with 20 HR in his peak seasons.

Just put something in play here and it's a 1 run game.

Off the Schneid

RBI Triple by Victor...Schneider!!

GTown Dave: Thanks for the reverse jinx.

Gload single.
Dobbs double.
Schneider triple.

Valdez bench.

How does a catcher triple to LF in CBP?

TTI: Nah, I saw 'em. I just can't resist being an ass. I agree w/ that last sentence, though. Herndon looks to have quite a bit of potential, I just wish he were developing it in AAA ball.

CJ: You're welcome! And for the record, I never mentioned Gload or Schneider.

Phillies scoring juggernaut: Gload, Dobbs, Schneider.

Just like we all expected.

If you predicted that Schneider was gonna triple, raise your hand.

GTown Dave: I know, I know... but it was an easy target...

Cargo looked like he was trying to spear Seth Smith.

Giambi needs to catch that.

bench lefties to the rescue!

If you predicted that Blanton was gonna do anything except strike out, raise your hand. When you get luck like that, you have to take advantage.

By the way, Charlie really seems to be pressing the right buttons with bench players these last few games.

CJ: I respect that. I would've been on it like Blanton on the post game buffet if the roles had been reversed.

GTown: Yeah I see value in Herndon. Hopefully he gets a lot out of "learning on the job" so to speak. He could be a real cheap guy to carry in the bullpen for a year years.

* or you know "a few years."

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