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Wednesday, July 21, 2010

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Oh good, Ransom at 2nd. God forbid Placido moves over for a game or two, huh?

This is turning into a nightmare. Francisco is batting 3rd and all the talk is about trading for a pitcher. Whoa???

Rube is an Ass. UC is an idiot for not moving Polly to 2B.


Young lefty pitcher? I predict a no-no against us tonight.

Honest, I don't care anymore.

"Francisco is batting 3rd and all the talk is about trading for a pitcher."

Puzzling, isn't it?

I guess if we can shut everyone out, Rube thinks that we can surely steal a run or two somewhere....

Stat of the Day, via philly.com:

The Phillies have scored 3 or fewer runs in 45 of their 93 games this season, 48.4 percent.

Yet, people still don't see any problems with the job our hitting coach has done with our vaunted lineup, since, well, we used to score runs the past few years. We also occasionally hang up a 12-spot, and add some garbage runs late in the game (yes, I know they count...)

Yes, let's add some more good pitching, so we can frustrate new Phillies for the rest of the season...

I hope Chooch gets 4 intentional walks tonight. Polly can't field second and Ruiz can't be up in the lineup.

Seth Everett is an idiot.

clout, without thinking too much, I'd rather have Oswalt for 3/$39M (or whatever) and Ramirez-Gillies-Aumont than Lee for 1/$9M and Happ-A+ prospect.

For all Vic's struggles, he's hitting .323/.374/.586 against lefties. Garcia is nasty, though. Same with Rollins. Has a .381 OBP against LHP this year.

Is Ransom really playing 2B?

Why is Ruiz always buried in the lineup? He's the Phils best hitter against LHP by OPS.

.349/.481/.535.

NEPP, I assume you know who Garcia is. He's not just any young lefty either.

Scott: Who's going to fire Milt?

UC sure isn't. And Rube isn't going to step in and do it till things get worse. So ya better hope things get better cuz I don't want to see what kind of worse they'd have to get for Rube to reach down and fire Milt.

Fantastic, 50% of the time the opposing pitcher is recording a quality start.....Fing stellar.

The sickening sinking sensation in my stomach tells me the Phillies are going to acquire Ben Sheets, give up too much in the doing, & proceed to sign him to a Blanton-like extension that we will all begin to regret almost immediately. Additionally, Werth will remain w/ the Phillies for the rest of '10, & Dom Brown will be stuck in LV until 1 Sept.

------------

Ryan Lawrence (via Twitter): "Things I don't get: people complaining about a new-look lineup when the same old order ain't working."

Amen to that. And it's about damn time J-Roll was removed from the leadoff spot. I hope it's not just a passing fancy on Charlie's part.

------------

Charlie Manuel puts the "Ewww!" in "Hitting Guru". His Offense is putrid, & Oswalt/Haren/Sheets/Worley/Any Other Pitcher won't make a damn bit of difference in the W-L column until the dopes at the plate start putting together some intelligent ABs.

"Why is Ruiz always buried in the lineup?"

Because UC is a moron?

Any other answer I can think of is far less likely, but you're welcome to speculate.

Heather: Yeah, there's certainly some inconsistency between Oswalt's words & his actions. But I can see why he's doing it. He sees this as an opportunity to not only get out of Houston, but to leverage the situation into another year of guaranteed payment. He probably figures that either the Phillies will meet his demand or some other team will come along and do so. And he's probably right.

Unless Polanco's elbow somehow prevents him from playing 2nd for the next month or so, then this is arguably the dumbest move Cholly has made as the manager for the Phils.

BAP, repost from the other thread:

"He probably figures that either the Phillies will meet his demand or some other team will come along and do so. And he's probably right."

I'm not convinced that another team will do so, at least at the trade deadline. Maybe in the offseason. There's not a lot of teams right now who want to pick up salary like that and really want SP. We would be one of them. Can't think of too many others. The Yankees could, but won't, the Mets don't have the money, the Red Sox SP is not their most pressing need...where else does Oswalt think he's going?

Either Oswalt is having second thoughts about demanding to be traded or he's taking a big big risk in thinking other offers are going to come out of the woodwork.

"this is arguably the dumbest move Cholly has made as the manager for the Phils."

I doubt that very seriously but, every time I try to call up my list, an error message says that my computer doesn't have enough memory to read it.

Hilarious question in chat with Jim Callis:

Jason (Walnut Creek, CA): Considering the Lack of power hitting seen in the Majors this year, I am really surprised teams are not beating down the Phillies door to obtain John Mayberry. The former First Rounder and Stanford alum has always hit for decent Power stats, albeit with low batting averages. However, since he can also play First Base, do you see the Phillies trading him at the Deadline to get a 2nd Baseman or Starting pitcher?


Jim Callis: He can't hit. That's why noboby is beating down the Phillies' door. If he played every day in the majors, he'd strike out 200+ times. He's a toss-in at best in a trade

The thing with UC is that the things we can readily evaluate with him as a manager (tactical moves, lineups, etc) he is not good at.

The other stuff, the intangibles everybody says he brings, (player's manager, keeps them happy, wins big games, is a hitting guru) he is just not showing those now...the team isn't winning, seems demoralized, and isn't hitting well, I'm wondering just what UC is doing.

Everything I can think of to evaluate UC on, he is not doing too well at right now.

I think I'm going to give these guys the night off and watch the Union. I hope I'm wrong, but I think they are going to get creamed today and tomorrow.

He's been getting thrown out of games at a pretty good clip. Doesn't that mean that he "cares?" (tongue firmly in cheek)

I'm not sure I understand the surprise at Charlie not moving Polanco to 2B, nor do I understand why it matters. I suppose Dobbs could play 3B in the interim, but we all know Charlie will never allow him to bat vs. LHP. And yes, Ransom could play 3B, but he's going to be in the lineup somewhere, anyway -- why do we care whether it's at 2B or 3B? Is he that much more valuable at one vs. the other? I recall a radio interview w/ Placido from before he went on the DL wherein he talked about initially having some difficulty getting comfortable at 3B, but was finally beginning to settle in. So why mess w/ that? When Utley comes back he is going to play 2B, & Polanco will just be moved back to 3B anyway. I figure Charlie might as well leave him there for now, as the Phillies currently have far bigger problems than 2B/3B defense. All-in-all, leaving Polanco at 3B is near the bottom of my list of Charlie-related issues.

"he'd strike out 200+ times"

Bad argument for Jim to make though as a reason for Mayberry to suck as a hitter. Ryan Howard strikes out about 200 times a year. Does he suck as a hitter too?

Keeping Polanco at 3rd is bad, but it isn't even among Cholly's 3 dumbest move of the past 2 days. How about: (1) batting the .225-hitting Rollins leadoff last night; (2) batting the .390-OBP Ruiz near the bottom of the order; and (3) keeping Kendrick in the game to allow 4 homeruns?

Heather: The obvious answer to your question is yes.

Next lineup will be chosen with pick-up stix.

Heather, Ryan Howard is one of the top 5 problems this team has this year. You didn't see the memo?

Gee Heather you tell us, just last week you were the leader in a chorus line of posters saying how much Howard sucked and how low his WAR was relative to other better players...

BAP - I will retract by statement. Valdez has done nothing the 2 weeks and I guess Cholly is just rolling the dice with Ransom. Figure he can't worse offensively tonight that what he has has seen from Valdez the past 2 weeks (.192/.276/.267).

One position that Amaro and the Phils actually need to think more seriously about this offseason is the middle utility INF.

Wait- I'm starting to gather that Heather hates Charlie Manuel. It's not like she posts 400 times a day saying some derivative of that statement.

Here's a shout out to Heather.

The next time I hit a bomb, I'll be thinking of you as I round the bases.

WAR this.

I'm starting to gather that Heather is an idiot.

The Sir Alden Trio I guess needed a female member.

MG, Amaro and the Phils have needed to think more seriously about middle utility infield EVERY season for as long as I can remember. Dobbs and his hitting (only - no defense) was a bright spot on the Phillies bench 2 years ago. Outside of that, I can't remember any reliable bench player that has sat in that dugout since Mariano Duncan.

" I recall a radio interview w/ Placido from before he went on the DL wherein he talked about initially having some difficulty getting comfortable at 3B, but was finally beginning to settle in. "

While not quite seeing it as proof of Heather's assertion that Charlie is a "moron," I did wonder why Charlie was insisting on keeping Polly at 3rd. I got that Charlie wanted to stay consistent, but didn't really fully appreciate the reason why.

This reason from G-Town makes a lot of sense, actually. Especially considering that G-Town isn't exactly a charter member of Charlie's fan club.

GTownDave: " All-in-all, leaving Polanco at 3B is near the bottom of my list of Charlie-related issues."

When my favorite Beerleaguer pessimist (sorry bap) comes to Charlie's defense, I suppose we should drop that topic and move on.

BAP - Yeah. Cholly has made some real head-scratching choices during the past 2 series and you have to wonder why he would remotely refusing to shift Polanco to 2B. Polanco was a GG 2B last year. Ransom has played 10 G at 2B at the MLB the past 4 years and hasn't played their much in the minor leagues at all.

Heather: "Bad argument for Jim to make though as a reason for Mayberry to suck as a hitter. Ryan Howard strikes out about 200 times a year. Does he suck as a hitter too?"

For the record, Ryan Howard has NEVER struck out 200 times in a season and is on pace for only 155 strike outs this year.

(Full disclosure: Ryan Howard twice struck out 199 times in a season.)

I've somehow gotten the idea that Manuel buries the catcher in the lineup because getting pounded in the hand by balls traveling 90+ MPH for the whole game makes the catcher's hands numb toward the end of the game, and batting the catcher late minimizes strain on the hands.

I do not know if this is a sensible strategy. I don't know if it's Manuel's strategy. I just got this impression somehow.

I wouldn't pounce on the chat guy too much for his response about Mayberry. It's just a chat response. He's not going to be more than glib. Mayberry can't hit for average, he doesn't walk, and he strikes out a ton. A guy with .220/.280/.400 potential.

TTI: "clout: Which side are you saying is better?"

If Oswalt pitches to career norms, then I'd take Oswalt for 1.5 years plus the Mariners' prospects assuming the cost for Oswalt isn't higher than we think.

Keep in mind, as good as Lee is, given the injuries and lack of offense this year I'm not sure he could put us over the top. And, next year, he's gone. This way, you start fresh in 2011 with a trio of Halladay-Oswalt-Hamels and pray for fewer injuries.


clout: I figured from your comment that's how you were leaning.

It's the way I would lean too pretty much for the reasons you mentioned.

GTown Dave: Totally agree with you on Polly. How many managers yank their regulars around to a different position to fill in for a hurt player?

Valdez last month: .232/.284/.362 (69 ABs)
last 2 weeks: .192/.276/440 (26 ABs)
last week: .176/.263/.176 (17 ABs)

Ransom last month: .190/.227/.333 (21 ABs)
last 2 weeks: .133/.188/.333 (15 ABs)
last week: .143/.143/.286 (7 ABs)

Dobbs last month: .293/.341/.537 (41 ABs)
last 2 weeks: .267/.313/.667 (17 ABs)
last week: .375/.444/.750 (8 ABs)

Which of these things are not like the others?

clout: Very few. However, so many posters on here are so much smarter than Charlie Manuel and hence they know better. Maybe they just don't like the way he talks.

"The Sir Alden Trio I guess needed a female member."

What's make you think Heather is a woman?

"Not I" said the cat.

"What's make you think Heather is a woman?"

This is a joke, right?

(Actually, I know it's not, clout has gone on about this before. But it's arguably the most completely irrational of clout's several irrational lines of chatter.)

Seriously, clout, you don't think there's a strong correlation between gender-specific nicknames and the gender of the person choosing the name? Strong enough to predict the gender of the participant within, say, 90% accuracy?

Jim Callis is also an idiot.

Mayberry would hit lefty pitching just fine in the majors. He's hitting over .300 this year against LHP and was hitting very well until he got hurt about a month ago. He is now healthy again and hitting well again for LV.

He would be a solid 4th/5th OF in the majors, with good speed and a good glove/arm.

Nobody is saying he would make a great everyday OF. Brown is that guy. But as an extra OF? He would help a lot of clubs.

Why is Rube even wasting his time? This team is going NOWHERE in 2010. If they finish over .500 at this point, it would be nice.

Rube seems like he is getting desperate NOW, when he should have been "desperate" a couple of months ago when this thing started falling apart. Now he looks like he is trying to save face, with some "big name" acquisition, when it will take a hell of a lot more then that to turn this sinking ship around in 2010.

Don't trade Happ. Why does the FO seem so "wishy-washy" with this kid? Even when he was one of the best starting pitchers in the National League last year, it always seemed to be with a "but, uhh, well" from the FO.

This kid is not hurt now. He was throwing just as well, with the same velocity and same "stuff" last night in AAA, as he was last year. What he WAS struggling with for a few starts in AAA, was the same thing he has ALWAYS struggled with from time-to-time....command. When he throws strikes and commands the fastball, he is tough to hit. Always has been. He should be up now and pitching the rest of 2010 in the Phils rotation. Get him back out there and get him ready for 2011.

Dumping him now, when he SHOULD be a BIG part of the 2011 and beyond plans of this team, would be borderline asinine.

Congrats to Vance Worley. They have always been intrigued by this kid. Probably too early, but they were serious about calling him up LAST year about this time.

I wonder what Kendrick did to piss off the Phils? I (and most here) think he was doing a very solid job (after a horrendous start) in the rotation. He has one bad inning in St. Louis and he's gone? Really? Don't get that.

You have an offense that is really scuffling overall, Valdez who isn't hitting a lick the past few weeks, Dobbs is really hitting, and a guy in Polanco who played a position all last year/has already a few times already this year/will like have him fill in at 2B for at least the next 4-5 weeks while Utley is out.

That is hardly a 'knee-jerk reaction.' Sometimes you do have put a player in a position where he may not be that comfortable for the betterment of the team.

It could be a man who misspelled "Heathen"

philwynk: Good point. If it's on the Internet it must be true. Silly of me to raise the issue.

"Gee Heather you tell us, just last week you were the leader in a chorus line of posters saying how much Howard sucked and how low his WAR was relative to other better players..."

Start reading more better.

I never said Howard sucked.

I said Howard's contract sucked.

Is it too much to expect reality to get in the way of a good rant?

"Rube seems like he is getting desperate NOW, when he should have been "desperate" a couple of months ago when this thing started falling apart."

In the flood of Rube-hate, this comment stands out as one of the more irrational.

The Phillies had been an offensive juggernaut for going on four years running, and began 2010 in exactly the same mode. NOBODY predicted, when the team started that slump in May, that the slump would last more than a few weeks. Nobody could have. It's irrational -- unless he knows something about the clubhouse life of the team that they're not leaking to the public.

So, no, he should not have been desperate two months ago. He should not even be desperate now. This is essentially the same squad that's been making major league pitchers quake in their cleats for the last four years. If there's a clubhouse problem, an interpersonal problem, or an attitude problem, he should solve it. It's not a personnel problem -- although one can solve those other types of problems sometimes by changing personnel.

The Rays have a scout at Lakewood tonight. That screams Davis or Upton would be coming back.

Kyle is being used as the team scapegoat but beware of his francouerean powers if you piss him off.

Rube should have known Polly and Uts would be injured, JRoll re-injured and Chooch would get clocked in the head with a bat. Complete fail on his part.

'bout time Charlie moved Jimy down in the order.

Here's how I'd line them up:

Polly
Vic
Chooch
Howard
Werth
Francisco
Ransom
Rollins


Yes, JRoll at #8 until he proves he can start to hit again.

Want to get on base, Jimmy? Walks count too.

Heather gets more sh!t than other BL posters. I wonder why that is?

According to Jon Heyman, the Phils offered Werth a long-term deal that he didn't accept right away.

According to Jon Heyman, the Phils offered Werth a long-term deal that he didn't accept right away. ... It isn't known what the Phillies offered Werth but he is believed to be seeking in excess of the $66 million the Mets signed Jason Bay for last offseason. Werth is a better all-around player than Bay, though the market may be tough with Tampa star Carl Crawford also expected to be available this winter

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/07/21/oswalt.phillies/index.html?eref=writers

****NEPP, I assume you know who Garcia is. He's not just any young lefty either. ****

Sophist, that's a big part of why I feel the no-no coming on.

"philwynk: Good point. If it's on the Internet it must be true. Silly of me to raise the issue."

I'll repeat the question I asked the first time, which actually addresses this ill-considered quibble of yours:

Don't you think there's a strong CORRELATION (you know what that is, right?) between gender-specific nicknames and the gender of the person choosing the name? Strong enough to predict the gender of the participant within, say, 90% accuracy?

If you'll reread that four or five times slowly, it may dawn on even you, clout, that I've allowed some 10% leeway for cross-gender nicknames, accommodating the likelihood that SOME on the internet misrepresent themselves. I actually think 10% is extremely high, given that this is a sports chat blog, not a porn chat site, that males tend to avoid crossing gender because they're a little phobic about being gay, and that trans-gendered adults make up fewer than 1% of the population.

Now -- have you grown up enough in the few weeks since I spanked you last to offer me an apology? Or are you going to continue to play your little power game?

You really do need professional help, clout.

Philwynk,


This ship has been sinking since May. Anyone not wearing Phillie underroos would admit that.

Some of these guys got old overnight. The offense ground to a halt and Rube sat back and did NOTHING. He and his lackey's thought that some of these guys would just suddenly start hittin' because we are the Phils and always hit. We'll turn it on like we always do (although other team's falling apart has certainly helped the Phils the past few years) and everything will be fine.

Rube and his smug attitude, has rubbed off on this entire club.

And now he is getting desperate, as the Braves are taking off and leaving them in the dust. And its too late.

Of course he should not be "desperate" now. Its too late. Instead of trying to trade for some overpaid and aging pitcher, he should be worrying more about the 2011 season and figure out which guys are still going to be here for THAT season. If you think a Ben Sheets will be a part of that 2011 season, then make a responsible trade. But don't sell it as some "season-saving" acquisition. Most of us here are too smart for that. This season was officially lost in late June in Cincinnati, on a head-first slide at 2B.

Questions. I know we all have questions. Since we're short on answers, I consulted my handy dandy Magic 8-Ball. Here's what I got:

"I said Howard's contract sucked."

Heather, how would you know his contract sucked - you know, the 5 yr extension BEGINNING in 2012 - ....

if it's not even 2012 yet?

Are you claivoyant like Dutch dalton?

Scott: 100% Pure, Uncut Awesome. :-D

Scott: Totally awesome graphic.

"Werth is a better all-around player than Bay"

Hmm... how many people here agree that Jayson Werth is a better all-around player than Jason Bay? I know I don't.

"Some of these guys got old overnight."
"This season was officially lost in late June in Cincinnati, on a head-first slide at 2B."

I really can't tell. Are these serious comments?

Shake it again Scott. Will Jameson Werth be with Phillies on Aug.1st?

philwynk: Spanking? Irrational over-the-top responses? Acting like you know what you're talking about?

Yes, there's likely someone here who needs professional help all right.

Old Phan --

The same guy asserts that since none of expected that the May 22 slump would become permanent, we all wear Phillies Underoos. And he says the season was lost in May, but then he says it was lost in June.

He may think those are all serious statements, but I'm not taking them seriously.

/hand in air

Yes, I believe Werth is a better player than Bay.

awh: Who said heather "knows"? She's stating an opinion that it was stupid to give a big guy like Howard that much guaranteed money for that long? I love Howard and while hoping I'm proven wrong, agree with that statement. Many posters on here feel the same way.
Are you suggesting that we're not allowed to offer opinions on contracts until they're completed? That would make for a pretty boring blog.

Meyer: Not sure what to make of the response:

"I said Howard's contract sucked."

Heather, how would you know his contract sucked - you know, the 5 yr extension BEGINNING in 2012 - ....

if it's not even 2012 yet?

Are you claivoyant like Dutch dalton?
"

AWH, if you are seriously asserting that we cannot use comps, stats, and the average value for certain baseball skills over time to assist us in predicting contracts that are likely to be good values and contracts that are likely not, there is no point in having this conversation.

Sexism in action:

The amount of hatred Heather gets directed at her in the comments section

vs.

The free pass The Truth Injection gets by asking clout to please provide his/her opinion so he/she can agree with whatever that opinion is.

The season was OFFICIALLY lost in Cincinnati in late June. Up until then, it was still teetering and could have gone either way (although the signs were still not good in several different areas).

If you actually read the comment correctly, it would make more sense to you.

Its hard to win and be in the playoffs every year. Even the Yankees had a off year a few years ago.

The Phils will be back. It just won't be in 2010.

****The free pass The Truth Injection gets by asking clout to please provide his/her opinion so he/she can agree with whatever that opinion is.****

I actually thought that was pretty funny...that he was so open about it.

Scott, outstanding stuff. Thanks!

If Mr. T were a GM:

'I pity the fool that signs Werth to 4 yr/$75M deal.'

The Phillies would be way better off if they had Bay's .261/.352/.410 line instead of Werth's .283/.373/.505 line, not to mention Bay's superb reputation as a fielder.

I wouldn't want either Bay or Werth for the next 4 years...neither would likely be good value in the final couple seasons of such a deal.

sifl: No one who knows baseball would argue that Bay is a better fielder or runner than Werth, so it comes down to offense.

Career-wise, on offense, it's not close. Bay has had a better career than Werth so far. The question is who will be better in the future? They are the same age: 31.

In two of the past 4 years (including this one so far), Werth has had a better OPS+ than Bay. If they stay about even going forward then you'd have to say Werth is better than Bay because of his edge in speed and defense.

I'd be more curious to see what an impartial, non-Philly following casual baseball observer states in regard to Werth/Bay. I suspect that you'd get a:

Bay>Werth

Then, I'd be curious to hear what a non-Philly/Met/Pirate affiliated scout's opinion was.

It all comes down to whether or not you view Werth's progress from platoon-mate extraordinaire to everyday extra base-hitting RF was the result of his playing over his head for an extended period of time, or a true re-adjustment of expectations. I know that no one (not even on here) expected Werth to be much more than a super-sub when he signed with the Phils - injury issues, inability to hit righties, etc. Basically, he came to the Phils as a right handed Dobbs.

What if the Phils went on a 10 game winning streak and the braves went on a 10 game losing streak?

This scenario could alternate 6 separate times before the end of regular season.

Still too early to declare the season over. Have we all forgotten 2007?

Heather: Don't you also have to predict inflation in baseball contracts? I think debating the future is fun, but to act like you know Howard's contract will be bad one is silly. Not even baseball people can predict what the contract market is going to be year to year.

clout:

Very nicely put. I think the seasons the two are having are bearing your theory out very clearly.

I also agree with you that philwynk is a couple teabags short of a party.

Zolecki just tweeted that Worley is the long man, and the Phils still haven't named a starter for Saturday...

Doesn't mean much, but Sheets started today, so obviously he wouldn't be able to start on Saturday! Sheets would be equivalant to a Dennis Cook upgrade!

A lifetime of research tells me any player not in a Mets uniform is better than one that is, up to & including cases in which said players are the same person. I refer to this stat as a player's FART, or Francoeur Acquired, Royally Tanks.

Werth has been a 125 OPS+ hitter over 1800+ PA for the Phillies. It's amazing how willing people are to ignore that because of one bad month.

DH Phils,

Werth has had exactly 1 year in the majors with numbers higher than you list as his "line," and you need to do splits on that line between, say April-May and June-July. His career average is .267/.362/.472, and he's not hitting anywhere near that average right now.

The impression I get is that Bay has been a lot more consistent that Werth for a lot longer.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-mattinglyblunder072010

"Rule 8.06 of the Official Baseball Rules stipulates a trip to the mound begins when a manager or coach crosses the foul line and ends when he leaves the 18-foot dirt circle surrounding the pitcher’s rubber. Returning to the dirt constitutes a second trip, at which point the pitcher must be removed."

Broxton had to be removed and the Dodgers lost. I didn't know the specifics on this rule.

"I also agree with you that philwynk is a couple teabags short of a party."

That's because I caught you last night dissembling like a 4-year-old with his hand in the cookie jar, and calling it "nuanced thinking."

http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=1717&playerid2=1327&playerid3=&position=OF&page=8&type=full

Interesting comparison of the two.


Mattingly would have known that rule had he just SHAVED THOSE SIDEBURNS!

philwynk: "His (Werth) career average is .267/.362/.472, and he's not hitting anywhere near that average right now."

Werth's season slash line: .283/.373/.505

"What if the Phils went on a 10 game winning streak and the braves went on a 10 game losing streak?
This scenario could alternate 6 separate times before the end of regular season.
Still too early to declare the season over. Have we all forgotten 2007?"

Brett, yes, everyone has forgotten that.

The resident Beerleaguer Tea Leaf Readers have declared the season over, and I'm sure that going forward, NONE of them will watch another game for the rest of the season.

Seriously, would you watch a bad movie a second time, knowing you didn't like it the first time AND you know how it's going to turn out?

Werth > Bay.

philwynk:

Werth's June/July: .268/.377/.415
Bay's June/July: .226/.321/.372

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