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Wednesday, July 21, 2010

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Could just be a spot start until Oswalt gets off the plane.

Woo hoo Worley !!

So still no Happ? Huh.

There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear...

I think Happ is replacing Kendrick Adam.

I've seen a handful of Worley's starts since he's been in Reading. I actually think he's one of the more overlooked arms in the system. He's pitched really well as of late.

Technically, he's Moyer's replacement. This doesn't address Kendrick being sent down.

Rube told us he had a big move coming...WOOHOO!!!!

Worley has had command problems that have gotten better as his AA season's gone on (4.0, 3.8, 1.7, .8 BB9 each month), and he's got decent K9 and GB numbers (6.38 and 46%).

Maybe Happ is part of a trade package that's on the table...that would make sense.

I believe Worley's ceiling is considered 4/5 starter or late inning reliever. He's had a solid year in Reading and he's been pretty dominanting over the last 8 weeks.

BAP~ The only thing I can think of is that Happ wasn't called up because A) He's still too hurt or B) He's involved in a trade.

Or they are grasping for straws as you say.

Worely is not on the 40 man... Moyer to 60day DL?

So that's what Vance Worley looks like, huh. Not what I was expecting.

Now I know.

Gotta be the trade half of it...or they want someone who can be a long-reliever between now and Sat/Sun again as Carp went last night and was completely ineffective and is probably unavailable tonight....or both.

The Phillies persist in leading the National League, if not all of MLB, in number of 5th Starters.

On the other hand, Moyer, Carpenter, Baez, etc. might have only allowed 2 Runs yesterday evening, & the Phillies would have lost anyway. Philadelphia has dropped to 5th in the NL in Runs Scored, 11th in the NL in OBP & 12th in the NL in BA (dead last of all NL East teams).

It's nice the organization has been, & continues to be, so obsessed w/ pitching that almost nothing can be done to help right the ship Offensively. Well, except maybe get a small boost by calling up Dom Brown which, of course, the Phillies steadfastly refuse to do.

Anyone else very confused?

Prediction: Vance Worley doesn't throw a single pitch in anger between now and his eventual demotion back to Reading.

could be as simple as Blanton insurance

Gtown Dave: Don't worry, when Werth is traded in the Oswalt deal, Brown will be up. Talk about lefty-heavy. I guess Francisco will be getting a few more starts than he's accustom to getting.

I'd have to think Worley's the long-man for now until they get the rotation sorted out.

****could be as simple as Blanton insurance****

That's my guess as to what this is. Carpenter is unavailable to pitch tonight so they need a long-man. With Happ likely slated to go on Sat or Sun and Figueroa now an Astro, Worley was likely next on their depth chart based off his very solid year.

R. Billingsly -
I'm guessing that Francisco will be in a heavy platoon with Ibanez once Brown comes up.

I do think it's interesting that they put Brown in LF for the first time this week...

Please eat Baez's salary or put him on the DL with some phantom injury.

Chris: I agree. I feel that Ibanez will do majority of the sitting for Francisco. Unless Brown comes up and lays a complete egg.

Who gets cut off the 40-man to make room for Worely? Naylor?

Blanton to Houston, Werth to TB, prospects to Houston, Pence and Oswalt to Phils. Dom Brown up. WFC.

I may or may not be on crack.

I don't see Blanton having a whole lot of value to the Astros (or anyone else) at the moment.

If the Phils were able to somehow wrangle Pence and Oswalt from the Astros (without giving up a ton) it would be a coup.

And Bay Slugga, I'm guessing Moyer's headed to the 60-day DL to make room on the 40-man roster.

I believe we had open spots on the 40 man so its not an issue.

Chris: Yea that seems to make sense. Calling up Worley seems strange, unless Amaro knows Happ isn't pitching in 2010 or is traded.

Thanks NEPP.

I do wonder if this might be the end of the line for Moyer...hope it's not as serious as it looks at the moment.

Worley is focused and READY. Had a goal, no it's realized. Big day for him. He may not stay with the team beyond this week, but he will surely be back.

And hey, beerleaguers...plenty of NEW Worley content, with interviews, over on the PhoulBallz page. Check it out.

As Carpenter was demoted for Worley and Moyer is on the DL...we're looking at a 24 man roster here. Who else is getting called up for tonight?

My head is spinning.

I'll go on record as saying this day's trade chatter and roster moves has been more fun than Phillies basbeball.

Happ is not on the LV roster

Will Worley even make it to St. Louis by gametime? Where is Reading right now? Are they on the road or at home?

Dom Brown RBI single off a lefty. Call him up!

I predict Oswalt will be a Phillie tonight.

Not that I'm necessarily happy about it.

Season=Saved

If a trade is going on, no one has leaked anything at all. Damn strange that. Usually there are all sorts of rumors flying around on such a major deal. We've heard essentially nothing all day.

Was Happ really removed from the LV roster?

If so that would either indicate a trade is imminent or he'll be starting for the Phils on Saturday. Don't know why they wouldn't call him up if he was ready to start this weekend, though...

sophist: Worley is just 2 days removed from an 8-inning outing, so he definitely isn't being called up as Blanton insurance.

Worley is more machine than man...he can go tonight if need be.


Seriously though, that does imply that Worley will be getting a start this weekend. Scary thought.

So Vance Worley's our new 5th starter?

He's no savior, but why is Kendrick in AAA again? He's at least passable as a #5 starter...

Stark:

Roy Oswalt is asking for the Phillies, or any team that acquires him, to guarantee his $16 million option in 2012 before he would approve a trade, according to two sources familiar with the discussions.

bap, today would be Worley's side day if he was in the rotation so I think he'd be available. He pitched on the 18th, its the 21st.

EFF - Interesting...It eliminates flexibility in 2012, but in all reality isn't that a slightly below-market deal for him anyway?

And who knows what #1-type pitchers will be making in 2012, anyway...

So much for Roy retiring after 2011.

I just realized that we could have two Roy's in our rotation, and that can't be a good thing.

BTW, the RP market must be horrendous to see people like Jason Isringhausen and Chad Cordero being signed off the scrap heap.

His 2012 option is one of the things that makes him such an attractive trade candidate.

i like Worley but I think he should be in Triple A honing his craft. His ceiling though is a 4th or 5th starter in the majors. Interesting move, but somewhat peculiar. Something is brewing behind the scenes.

NEPP: Only if it's an option. A guaranteed 2012 year at 16 million (which is what he's forcing teams to give him) is far less attractive than having the option or a 2 mill buyout.

Worley screams emergency starter. I think, if given a shot, he would do no worse than Carpenter or Kendrick (in 2007). I doubt he's up long-term.

Might do him good to get a glimpse of what he's striving for. At least after tonight he'll always be able to tell everyone that he was once a major-leaguer.

Dutch Daulton says its okay to guarantee all contracts AFTER 2012. Its the 2012 season that's a risky proposition.

Phillies probables vs. Rockies:

Roy Halladay
Roy Oswalt
Vance Worley

Musical guest: Conway Twitty.

Odds are this will be a disaster, but hey, this is the stuff dreams are made of. Congrats to him.

@Malcolm: Hilarious.

The ESPN article reads that it wouldn't be a three-team trade and rather companion deals. So if that's the case, we'd send prospects to HOU and get guys from the Rays for Werth to replenish the farm system. Can't think of any reason why I'd be worried about Rube trying to pull off a deal like that.

Werth+Happ+prospects to Houston, according to MLBTR. I'm not starting to feel "eh" about it.

If Worley is the plan for Sunday's start (in place of Moyer), then bringing him up now makes no sense. You bring up a bullpen guy through Saturday then send him out to recall Worley.

Worley gets to play the Drew Carpenter role for a few days regardless of how much rest he's had.

From MLBTradeRumors: "J.A. Happ would likely head to Houston in an Oswalt trade, probably along with some prospects from the lower minors. "


This deal is getting worse all the time.

I can already see it: Happ, Singleton and Colvin to the Astros for Oswalt, Werth to Tampa for a couple b-level crap guys to "restock the system". Rinse, repeat.

If we're not flipping Werth to get prospect to USE in the trade...DON'T DO IT.

Bed Beard: I'm going to choose to assume you're joking about Werth + Happ + prospects. Please be joking.

Stark also said:

"And the Phillies, for now at least, are balking at that request.

So there were indications Wednesday that Oswalt's contract demands were on the verge of blowing up a potential deal between the Astros and Phillies involving the 32-year-old Astros ace.

Oswalt has about $7 million left on his $15 million salary for this year, plus a guaranteed $16 million next season and either a $2 million buyout or that $16 million option for 2012.

The Phillies are believed to be amenable to paying most of the $25 million he's owed through next year, but have shown no inclination to pick up the option year.

It was unclear Wednesday how close the Phillies and Astros were to agreeing on what players would be exchanged if they could resolve Oswalt's contract issues. But there were rumblings from multiple baseball sources that pitcher J.A. Happ would be one of the players heading to Houston in any scenario.
And the Phillies, for now at least, are balking at that request.

So there were indications Wednesday that Oswalt's contract demands were on the verge of blowing up a potential deal between the Astros and Phillies involving the 32-year-old Astros ace.

Oswalt has about $7 million left on his $15 million salary for this year, plus a guaranteed $16 million next season and either a $2 million buyout or that $16 million option for 2012.

The Phillies are believed to be amenable to paying most of the $25 million he's owed through next year, but have shown no inclination to pick up the option year.

It was unclear Wednesday how close the Phillies and Astros were to agreeing on what players would be exchanged if they could resolve Oswalt's contract issues. But there were rumblings from multiple baseball sources that pitcher J.A. Happ would be one of the players heading to Houston in any scenario."

Also, the Phils would likely include 1 or 2 players from A Ball, but not Singleton or Cosart (apparently Singleton's currently as untouchable as Domo).

As for Werth:

"Meanwhile, the Phillies still were talking to several teams about outfielder Jayson Werth. But according to an official of one club they spoke with, they've made it clear "they're not going to trade Werth unless they get exactly what they want. They won't do it just to get rid of him."


The Rays still appear to be the front-runners to acquire Werth, if he gets dealt. But one source who spoke with them reports the Phillies asked for pitcher Wade Davis or outfielder B.J. Upton, among others.

And it's difficult to foresee Tampa Bay trading either player just to rent Werth for two months, unless the deal was expanded to send other young, controllable players back to Tampa Bay.

The Red Sox, Yankees and Giants also are believed to have interest in Werth. But there were no signs the Phillies had made much progress in their talks with any of those clubs.

According to an official of one club who spoke with the team, the Phillies aren't willing to pay any of the approximately $3.5 million remaining on Werth's contract.

In fact, one of the Phillies' main motivations in trading Werth, the official said, appears to be "to get rid of all his money."

Picking up Oswalt's 16 million would put you at 101 million committed in 2012 to 8 or 9 guys. Hamels would be in his 4th year of arbitration, Kendrick and Francisco in their second and Happ his first. Figure them all in and you're probably at 120 for 11 or 12 players.

Your rotation would be set through the end of 2012 though with Halladay-Hamels-Oswalt-Blanton-Happ

Werth + Happ + prospects?!? No thanks.

I am only OK with that kind of package if Pence or another player is involved.

So a potential trade for Roy Oswalt might be off because r00b is balking at picking up an extra year of his contract? The Rube? Our Rube? I think my brain is about to explode.

So a potential trade for Roy Oswalt might be off because r00b is balking at picking up an extra year of his contract? The Rube? Our Rube? I think my brain is about to explode.

Malcolm: That is sheer brilliance. Kudos to you, Sir! And kudos again!

I like Happ and think he's been slighted a bit in his short career, but if he's part of the Oswalt move that's not a big loss. He's a back end guy and everything fell into place for him last year.

Stark reporting that Phils not necessarily comfortable guaranteeing $16M in 2012.

Vance: Please go get your reckspecks back on before ever taking a photo ever again.

I don't want to revive the WAR debate except to say that if you believe that Ben Zobrist is a better player than Ryan Howard then by all means you should use WAR as a measure of who's the better player, which is how most posters here use it.

****one of the Phillies' main motivations in trading Werth, the official said, appears to be "to get rid of all his money."****

And there it is...its always about the bottom line with our Ownership. Exactly why we got rid of Outlander for pennies on the dollar.

Stupid.

By-the-by, I'm not at all convinced Happ is healthy. If he's part of a good deal, I won't necessarily shed any tears.

I don't blame Oswalt for asking for the guarantee, but I wonder if he's seeing the U.S.S. Phillies season being torpedoed and having second thoughts.

I can't imagine, if the Phils are seriously considering adding all of Oswalt's contract, that they're totally unwilling to pick up any of the 3.5 left due to Werth...Unless the team accountant is on crack that just doesn't seem to make any sense.

Why not ask the Stro's to pick up some of Oswalt's contract to give them flexibility to do the same with Werth's? Or am I talking crazy here...

NEPP: That item says nothing about Werth going to Tampa. What if the trade is simply prospects for Oswalt and the Phillies keep Werth?

I hate WAR. The idea of waged, armed combat, the band, and the statistic. They are all good for nothing.

Getting rid of Werth, at this point, is addition by subtraction.

I would trade that guy for a 6-pack of Natural Light right now.

I fully trust Rube to fvck this up somehow.

Bridoc: Make it Natty Ice and you've got yourself a deal!

Bridoc10: "F*ck that sh*t! Pabst Blue Ribbon!"

R.Billingsly: Deal.

If you make it Bud Light Lime, I'll throw in Raul Ibanez.

If we're trading 1 or 2 A-Ball level prospects along with Happ for Oswalt, I can live with that, especially if they can snag some AA or higher prospects from the (continually) stacked TB system for Werth.

That would make some sense to me.

****NEPP: That item says nothing about Werth going to Tampa. What if the trade is simply prospects for Oswalt and the Phillies keep Werth?***

All the rumors have us shopping Werth too...and they keep saying "companion deal". Sounds like it will happen to keep our bottom line secure. That $3.5 million that Werth is owed is big money apparently.

Werth would probably drink it before you got your hands on it. Bazinga!

Clout: Actually the Stark piece said we were trying to get Wade Davis or BJ Upton from the Rays for Werth.

Obviously, they've balked on it.

However, I do think it's possible we trade for Oswalt without trading Werth. Happ, Mathieson and Gose seems like a likely deal. If we're forced to pick up his 2012 option, I'm not really sure I like it. With the option, though, I could be convinced that it's improved our team for next year without sacrificing too much of the future.

FYI: Stark is about to go on 97.5.

Bedrosian's Beard: MLBTR does not say anything about Werth going to Houston. I have no idea where you got that from.

Oh, and if the rumor about BJ Upton is true then I want no part of that trade. From everything I've ever read/seen, Upton would do nothing to alleviate the general "lifeless" attitude the team has displayed this season.

NEPP: Lets not get all worked up over nothing here.

NEPP: I think the Werth/$ thing is b/c they would be taking Oswalt's final $16mil right?

The Stark article specifically says that Singleton and Cosart are off the table. The good news is that The Stros and the Phils probably overvalue Happ, even with the injury.

Why is this option such a problem for you Jack? Oswalt will be an ancient 34 years old in 2012...hardly the age to really worry about him collapsing.

If we got BJ Upton for Werth, we could put out one of the most athletic outfields in history with Brown/Upton/Victorino. Man they would cover a lot of ground.

That would be fun to watch. Not going to happen, though.

Wait, no trio of H's for next year? I liked the sound of it. And I had hopes for Happ to come back and be at least as good as Blanton.

So for the rest of the year, we'd have Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt, Blanton, and who - KK? And next year, the same? That would be a good 1-2-3. So I guess it might be fair.

However, to have to lose not only Werth but the draft picks, plus Happ, plus other prospects....Does that not sound like a lot? In exchange for Oswalt and different prospects. Hmm....

Chris: "In fact, one of the Phillies' main motivations in trading Werth, the official said, appears to be "to get rid of all his money."

This is a dominant philopsphy is virtually every Phillies trade. That is why it is so hilarious that some of the dimmer bulbs here actually think that Amaro truly dealt Lee because he thought the team would be better off with 3 prospects than having Halladay-Lee-Hamels.

****The Stark article specifically says that Singleton and Cosart are off the table. ****

No mention of Brody Colvin though...he's probably the equivalent of Cosart. And then there's guys like James, Santana and Villar that would all be "Lower minors" guys.

DH: You're right! Was hearing Werth all day long, went to a meeting/came back, read Happ to Houston, and made the (false) assumption he was being added to the overall, rumored deal. 1000 apologies.

The Stark article specifically says:

Meanwhile, the Phillies still were talking to several teams about outfielder Jayson Werth. But according to an official of one club they spoke with, they've made it clear "they're not going to trade Werth unless they get exactly what they want. They won't do it just to get rid of him."

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