Part of

« All-Star stage shines the light on Howard’s evolution | Main | Sans Utley, Phillies getting the gang back together »

Wednesday, July 14, 2010


Phillies really need to get to the WS now

It was a lot of fun watching the pitchers making short work of the hitters last night. I especially enjoy watching the marginal all-stars (the crappy players voted in by the fans or the mandatory team rep) trying to take on the dominant pitchers in the game.

only in 2010 could the phillies possibly get home field advantage thanks to the efforts of Scott Rolen, Marlon Byrd, and Brian McCann. It's enough to make Rod Barajas smile.

I was surprised Charlie lifted Roy in the middle of the inning. I can understand he doesn't want to expend Roy's arm, and he's playing the game to win, but i thought it was a little embarrasing for Doc.

If Halladay got one more out, he wins the game.

Charlie's best move? Not using Arthur Rhodes.

Now that the Yankees or Red Sox lost home field advantage will there be a bigger clamor to make the AS Game Not Count again?

Two birds with one stone prediction: Amaro trades Werth for a mediocre starting pitcher with some years left on his contract. He then gets out of the Werth Resigning bad press and off the hook for resigning Lee by saying "we now have enough pitching".

Halladay's started 18 or 19 games this year and I remember maybe one time that Manuel took him out in the middle of the inning - when he got shelled by the Red Sox.

Does anyone here think this game should still “count”? The All-Star game is an exhibition. Unfortunately, due to the ineptitude of baseball commissioner Bud Selig, it has had real since the 2002 tie. First, does anyone still get upset that the 2002 game ended in a tie? Really? This exhibition game doesn’t pit the best from each league against each other. It is a show for the fans and that is exactly what it should be. In an effort to give the game “meaning” he put way to much riding on the outcome of a mid-season exhibition game. We as Phillies fans know this more than anyone lately. Our lineup, last year and this year, is not build to succeed in a DH-friendly game. It’s a typical NL lineup with hitters on the bench who are fair hitters and fair fielders, not pure hitters (see 2008 Matt Stairs v. 2009 Ben Francisco). That being said, thank goodness the NL won so our Phillies will have home field this year.

Nope...should not count one bit. I turned it on for 10 min, saw the McCann double and thought...SWEET, home field advantage if they hold on and then promptly turned it back off again as a rerun of The Office was on and my deal to watch baseball doesn't include exhibitions (Basically, I have no say if the Phillies aren't on, if they are on, I get to watch, otherwise its whatever she wants to watch). As you can tell by my presence here, I watch almost every game eitehr on TV or on my its a pretty sweet deal. I look at the all-star break as a break for me too where I dont care about baseball for 3 days.

"Does anyone here think this game should still count?"

Personally, I don't care.

Perhaps I would care if the old system was based on a home field advantage for the team with the best regular season record, but it wasn't. Home field advantage for your team was a matter of pure luck; did your team make it to the Series in an even year or an odd year.

The real injustice between the AL and the NL in the World Series is the existence of the DH, which in my opinion gives a significant advantage to the American League team in any World Series regardless of home field advantage. If all other factors are equal, the AL team is the favorite.

I guess 17 pitches by Doc aren't going to kill him, but that was one heckuva at bat by Hamilton that forced Charlie's hand. I was thinking that Doc's starting to rack up the pitches here, does he really need to face Ortiz in this situation? Kind of surprised to see a righty go in as a replacement though.

Also interesting to see a few former Phils like Byrd and Bourn in the game. Not trying to rethink any trade debates at all, but it does make you realize that you can't always expect to get a diamond by giving up junk.

Cholly's instincts (aka, gut) got some love in the NYTimes:

The N.L. manager, Charlie Manuel of the Phillies, has seen plenty of McCann over the years — “Absolutely kills us,” he said — and as he huddled with his coaches, Manuel had a hunch. Thornton has held lefties to a .172 average this season, but his low fastball played to McCann’s strength.

“I said, ‘I hope he keeps the ball down and hard, because this guy can light him up,’ ” Manuel said. “He threw him a low fastball, and he clocked him.”

Can we get a thread going on whether or not we should have traded Marlon Byrd?

Ending the AL All-Stars' win streak is a nice feather in Manuel's cap, thats for sure.

Manuel's reported quote to McCann before the AB "Just act like the pitcher is wearing a Phillies uniform"...apparently worked.

The Phillies have been good at developing CFs over the last decade or so now...2 home grown All-Star CFs (Bourn, Byrd) and 1 Rule 5 all-star CF (Vic) that we're responsible for. By-product of loving toolsy OF guys with good defense I guess.

I used to love watching the All-Star Game. Now... not so much. Not sure why.

I never really thought about it, but Will Sschweitzer is right.... the American League team is always at an advantage during the World Series because of the DH. I don't see that ever being changed, but still... it ain't right.

And congrats to the Kutztown Legion team for winning their first championship ever.

NEPP - On top of that, after a slow start in Clearwater, Anthony Gose is showing some promise. May be my favorite position prospect to follow outside Brown of course.

I'm a true believer when it comes to the AS game. Love watching it and love that it counts. I only wish the managers would go all in and really manage it that way (which I think they will do increasingly).

How else do people want to decide home field advantage? You can't really do best record due to schedule imbalance. I like the healthy competition between leagues.

What did we get for Byrd? Apparently not enough. Clearly this was the worst trade in Phillies history. Ever.

I love that quote from Manuel to McCann. Whether it's factual or not, it's now history.

Dump regular season interleague and the All-Star game might become more interesting again.

I'm all for making it count, but then you gotta do it right: get rid of the 1 representative from each team, and fan voting. I get why they do both, and don't expect them to change.

Sophist - Gose more than Jonathan Singleton?

Phils traded Byrd for Endy Chavez.

{Sophist - I knew that. I was asking a generically beeleagueresque rhetorical question.}

{But thanks.}

{Gose may be a better prospect than Singleton. But given the Phils history, I'm always leary of a guy with tools.}

Stop complaining. The Phillies just secured homefeild should they return to the series. The game was well played and the ninth inning was pretty exciting. It felt like a meaningful game and that was the goal. I think every year managers are taking it more seriously and I knw Charlie took it extra seriously this year.
The reason you don't like the all-star game as much as you used to is that you aren't a kid anymore.

Andy, guess I'm partial to "up the middle" prospects with some defense and speed over pure hitters. If Singleton revealed some stellar glovework maybe. Also Singleton's also still under 200 AB in Lakewood.

Andy, wasn't saying one prospect was better or worse than another. I was just talking about who I like to follow / would like to see. Among position players, if I had to pick three to watch in three days, Brown / Singleton / Gose are at the top.

gobaystars: You're right about the kid thing.

not saying he's a "better" prospect than gose, but checking up on domingo santana is my favorite position prospect to keep tabs on.

Sophist - re: managers taking the All-Star game more seriously:

"Stop treating All-Star game as an exhibition
Game affects World Series, which means managers should take it seriously"

As someone said in the thread last night - if the game really has meaning, someone like Pujols should play the entire game.

re: manuel to mccann ""Just act like the pitcher is wearing a Phillies uniform"

I bet Charlie had the exact opposite words for Broxton - pretend the hitters ARENT wearing phillies uniforms.

Speaking of All Star games and me being negative, does anybody here read Fangraphs? They had a chat last night for the All Star game (you can mosey over there and read it yourself if you are interested.)

You all accuse me of being negative...Dave Cameron had something bad to say about Amaro (We should just fire him and get a decent GM), Manuel (most undeserving "all star", + comments about his general stupidity), and Ryan Howard (overrated + worst contract in baseball).

Does Dave have an axe to grind against the Phils, or are these pretty mainstream opinions?

Dave Cash, obviously, it's hindsight years later. Sophist is correct, the Phillies traded Marlon Byrd for Endy Chavez, but they let Chavez go at the end of the season and he signed with the Mets.

Chavez became a decent backup OF (low OPS but decent defense and speed; .286 .329 .378 after he was gone).

Byrd, OTOH, has done this [.299 .355 .470] since 2007.

So, they traded a future AS OF for 1/2 a season of Endy Chavez.

Not of of Ed Wade's better trades.

Dump regular season interleague and the All-Star game might become more interesting again.

Although I agree with gobaystars' comment about not being a kid anymore, I think Joe I is on the money with this one. The All Star Game was exciting because it you got to see something that you didn't see during the year -- AL players vs. NL players. It provided answers to interesting questions, like: "I wonder how [insert NL's top pitchers] would fare against the AL's best?"

Well, with interleague, you get a taste of that every year. You've seen Jimenez and Johnson face AL teams. You've seen NL teams use a DH. The novelty of All Star game has worn off a little due to interleague, in my opinion.

flipper - probably true. There's not much doubt that Pujols is the best 1B in baseball. But taking Pujols out for Votto isn't a terrible move. I mean, Votto is actually having a better season, playing better right now anyway.

When I think about managing it for real, I think of playing matchups, using PH, removing pitchers for platoon advantages, saving starters for extras. Things like that. Girardi made an error not saving his bench. Only having ARod left, and wanting his bat if Buck got a hit, cost him an out. He had no one to PH.

Heather - those are mainstream opinions for guys who write for fangraphs. If by sabermetric mainstream, I don't see that much criticism of Howard/Amaro/Manuel at (their coverage of the Howard extension was more balanced, although one of their - now departed - writers used to call Howard a platoon player).

ESPN was singing Manuel's praises last night. And they obviously love guys like Howard.

What do you mean by mainstream? Why are you concerned with what other people think besides simply the arguments they employ to reach their conclusions?

I will say that manager's decisions (lineups, pitching changes, etc.) impact results far less than usually imagined. Handling a clubhouse - especially in today's more multi-cultural game is one of Manuel's strengths. As is, apparently, hitting instruction (look at Brown in ST).

I wouldn't call Marlon Byrd a classic late bloomer. He's more of the modern variety.

fangraphs gamechats are hideous. they argue that David Price's xFIP isn't good enough to make the all star team.

Nothing like rewarding players for having the best "predictive" stats for the 1st half.

I still like the All Star game and actually thought this was a very good one. I didn't enjoy the steroid era slugfests that were a continuation of the home run derby as much as this one. My only complaint was it started too late with all of the non game related pregame stuff and I was puzzled by Buck and McCarvers hyping of the AL starting lineup as one of the best ever. It's an all star game and both lineups are always good but I didnt think it was as strong AL lineup than many I can remember.

Guess home field advantage means the phils have no shot of making the WS. Ending the drought will be one of the things that adds to Charlies impressive legacy.

Heather - just for a little background, Cameron started (and still is) as a Mariners blogger. Not saying that makes him biased at all. He applies the same sort of analysis across the board. But his main window into the Phils is the Lee trade and the recent Howard extension. I'm not sure where his idea that Manuel is a mental midget from besides his accent and flip answers to questions in the press conference.

I watched the game last night. It held my interest and it seems to me they were playing it to win.

Ed Wade's better trades? Thats a hoot :)

****On top of that, after a slow start in Clearwater, Anthony Gose is showing some promise. May be my favorite position prospect to follow outside Brown of course. ****

I agree on that...I love following guys like Gose. He seems like he has a real shot at making it. Honestly, I'm not even concerned with his very high CS rate as the raw ability is there, its just a technique/reading the pitcher thing and that can be taught.

Also like following Santana and Singleton alot.

On inter-league play: I completely agree on getting rid of it. I'd much rather we play the NL Central and West more and ditch the Interleague games...the novelty wore off about a decade ago.

Marlon Byrd only really blossomed when he hit age 29 in Texas. He was traded to the Washington Nationals, and continued to be a 4th outfielder for them, playing even worse for that team.

His stats are also misleading in Texas. His home/away splits are cavernous. His OPS at home is around 900-950 and about 700-750 away. Arlington is a well known bandbox. One can reasonably argue that his stats are very much inflated because of his home park.

And yes, I compared them to some Phillies players, Rollins, Howard, Utley, and Werth. There's a difference but not nearly as pronounced. Howard's difference is 30 points, Utley's 50, Werth's split favors away in 2008 and home in 2009 by 45-50 points (career it's less than 20), Rollins is about 60 for his career.

Heather s*cks.

Just to be clear, the point of my post about tommy and Heather was to say that, in the words of b_lip or whatever that guy's name was, Heather > tommy.

Wouldn't surprise me if Heather would receive a bit less flak around here if, in addition to being a bit headstrong, she used a moniker that not so clearly identified herself (apparently anyway) as female.

Posted by: Sophist | Wednesday, July 14, 2010 at 12:33 AM


Sophist: Kind of curious about why a poster (apparently) identifying herself as female would make a difference in the level of flak the poster receives on BL?

*bold emphasis added by me

Actually, I find myself holding back somewhat on some of Heather's more, shall we say questionable, comments - due to the fact that she's a woman.

Yo, new thread.

And not a moment too soon...

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel