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Monday, July 19, 2010


I wouldn't be shocked if we're swept. I also wouldn't be shocked if we sweep them.

Worley to AAA makes sense...with a spot starter role next year maybe as we'll be tight on cash for FAs.

So, without trading for Brett Myers, how does the team proceed? Glad that's settled.

After that sterling series against the Reds, they owe it to Cincinnati to hang 3 losses on St. Louis.

Methinks we are seeing much more of Francisco lately, because the Phils are showcasing him for a possible trade.

Otherwise, why else would Cholly not have pinch-hit for him with Ibanez either on Friday in the 9th inning of a 1 run game or last night in the 7th inning (with 2 runners on, a RHP on the mound and a 3 run deficit)?

Cholly barely used him for over a month. Now, all of a sudden, we see Francisco a lot. Ibanez is no more ineffective then he has been all year long. And Francisco is not exactly doing much at the plate either (was 1 for his last 11 coming into last night) with very little power production.

Can almost guarantee that the Phils will use Francisco in a potential package they are targeting with some other clubs. But they need to use him more now, to show what he's got.

Hugh: That is a good point. I'm going to watch and cheer, but let's get serious here - what's the over under for runs scored in this four game series?

I'll set the bar at 12 and say UNDER.

I wish cholly had as great a feel for when it's time to remove his pitcher as jw has for knowing when it's time to change thread topics.

Tonight is a battle of who can outslug the other. An essential win because I think Carpenter, Garcia, and Wainwright will make this team look truly pathetic.

I am the eternal optimist, so I watch every game with the hope that they get things rolling again. But to come out of the gates post All-Star break like they have is just awful. I will continue to hope that things will just start to click. Remember, they are only 2 out of the wild card.

denny - my impression on Ibanez staying on the bench was somehow Manuel thought it would only expose him against Russell and /or Marshall. Plus, I don't know that Francisco has very big splits L/R.

I do think Francisco is on the block - I have to believe that they're thinking about bringing Brown up this year but, they're not going to do it unless they move an outfielder. The obvious guy for him to replace is Ibanez but, he's just possibly the most difficult guy to move. I don't think any of them are untouchable, though.

Oh, Greg V., I think this team is past the need for the future tense in your comment. They've made themselves look truly pathetic. The adept St. L. starters can merely reinforce the apt adjective, maybe put an exclamation point on the sentence.

The outfielder to move is Werth.

Worley definitely has earned the promotion to Lehigh Valley. He looks to be putting it together this season at Reading. Last year he was really good in the first half and then battled some arm injuries and fell apart in the second half. He's been healthy all year and overall is 9-4 with a 3.20 ERA and 36 walks versus 83 strikeouts. Move him to Triple A and see how he fares against those hitters.

This series looks bad on paper with those match-ups. But that's why they play the games.

From MLBTradeRumors: Phillies "Very Close" to Deal for Brett Myers
Deal rumored to include SP Brody Colvin (A), OF Anthony Gose (A+) and 1B/DH Matthew Rizzotti (AA) going to Houston. Myers' 2011 mutual option will be exercised as part of the final deal."

All I can say is "WOW!"

NEPP that deal better be false. I cant take two terrible trades today.

LOL...sorry, after scanning the last thread, I couldn't resist.

NEPP: I'm not seeing that on MLB trade rumors. You're joking, right?

NEPP you almost ruined my day. Not that the Phillies wouldn't ruin it anyway.

After the Gagne trade I could believe anything. Ughhhh.

"Split in St. Louie" is my motto for this series.

"Methinks we are seeing much more of Francisco lately, because the Phils are showcasing him for a possible trade."

If I were showcasing Francsco for a trade, the last thing I'd do is put him on the field to demonstrate the full breadth of his crappiness. Instead, I'd just print out a copy of Francisco's Baseball Reference page, circle his age & career OPS+, & mail it out to all 29 other GMs.

In truth, I doubt they're shopping Francisco. I think they're just playing him because Ibanez hasn't been hitting left-handers at all. Sometimes a flute is just a flute.

Does he come in a package deal with Urbina?

NEPP - That is board abuse.

NEPP - Brett Myers returning?! The writers must be salivating over that because that is easily a week's worth of material.

NEPP - Well played.

I tried to make the package somewhat believable but still painfully overpaying. Looks like I succeeded.

I figured "For Singleton and Cosart" would be pushing it.

How did anyone seriously fall for that NEPP post?

Some of you don't understand the concept of sarcasm or jokes.

If you'd left Colvin ( who may end up being every bit as good as Cosart) out of it, I might have believed it.

LOL. I admit, I fell for it. What made that funny was that the package seemed so plausible -- even if my immediate thought was, "They gave up all that to get a 2-month rental with a history of being a major head case?"

NEPP: Never believed it. Ed Wade never would have done that deal.

Well, the mutual option exercised part was to make it more than a rental (and thus more believable that they'd jettison Colvin).

I figured Ed Wade was on the wrong end of that deal.

Now that Gagne is traded, Jimmy Rollins is the 2nd longest tenured pro athlete in Philadelphia (David Akers).

Trading Gagne is fine...not getting anything for him is pretty sad. I heard they did it to rebuild their farm system.

TTI: Thinking it through in hindsight, you're right. But context made it plausible. Given Amaro's penchant for overpaying to get what he wants, it seemed like just the kind of package we might offer. And NEPP is usually up on all the latest Phillies news & not someone who makes stuff up.

aksmith, on the b00b system of which is worse:

myers tanking 3 months of 2008 >^100 rollins not running out a popup.

apologies to the awesome b00b system if making < or > expotential is taking away from its preciseness.

Gagne is an aging veteran who is really one blow to the head away from probably being finished as a hockey player. The Flyers got deeper on the blue line this off-season and really needed to free up some cap space to try and fit a goalie into this puzzle somehow. The move makes sense in that regard even if it is sad to see Gagne get shipped out of town.

Did everyone see the piece on ESPN where they were talking about the open yesterday and worked in a shot at Charlie Manuel? Another example of ESPN being finished as a respected network.

**** And NEPP is usually up on all the latest Phillies news & not someone who makes stuff up. ****

Dont worry, I wont be doing it again any time soon.

ESPN is still a network? They've been a joke for several years now (basically when they decided to say "Screw it" and become the Favre/Lebron/Yankees/Red Sox network. I haven't watched non-baseball game ESPN in probably 4 years now.

Um, nice snatch of one thing from a long post. But didn't I point out that Rollins was the prima dona who resisted being moved from leadoff and also not running out a pop up? And that was to contrast with Myers wanting to close rather than start. I'd say that evens it up on the B00B scale, unless you want to throw in your own problems. Then all bets are off.

And of course, you said he tanked three months. Don't know if he really did that just because you said so. You're saying he didn't pitch well even once in three months? And you're also saying he didn't have a hip that was locking up on him during that time? Of course you are. Way to pick and choose.

I do think Myers gets moved though at the break and that the 'Myers coming back to Philly' isn't just pure crank talk when you actually think about it. Longshot, sure but not ridiculous hyperbole category either.

BAP: Context didn't make it plausible. the entire thread has been a silly debate about Brett Myers. NEPP comes in with a report that included three of the Phillies best prospects for a guy that they could've kept this season and let walk away going so far as to publicly announce they were cutting ties with him. I saw the words Brett Myers and immediately knew it was a joke regardless of what was written after that.

People fell for it because they always want to believe the most ridiculous things that paint the team and FO in a negative light.

MG - No, for hyperbole you'll need to assume that Myers is the devil and should be shot on sight. Because that's clearly the implication from the last thread.

TTI - C'mon. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Amaro really wants another starter and if Myers is actually one of the better starters available at the trading deadline.

The price seemed really high but so is the price tag for a Lilly, Guthrie, or other starting pitcher who probably isn't quite as good as Myers either. will have all kinds of crazy stuff and almost completley unsubstanited stuff starting in a few days.

The only thing you could dismiss outright is something like this:

"Rays close to acquiring the frozen head of legendary slugger Ted Williams to inspire their hitters and vex the Red Sox."

TTI you sound like the dork from 'The endless debate' video. I'm sorry I'm not as smart as you.

Wow, I had no idea that calling Myers a jackass would be so controversial.

I thought that was a pretty irrefutable fact.

aksmith - Oh, and apparently "jackass" now equals "devil who should be shot on sight." At least in your world it does. Why are you so offended that I think Myers is a jackass?

Stick to your calculators and virginity.

Who would be a better LF?

Ted Williams' frozen head or Raul Ibanez?

FWIW, I think Myers is a jackass too.

re: viewers

Comcast must be paying the Phillies pretty nicely, because by the numbers it looks like the Phillies can support their own network. They baet the Mets last year and were very close to the Red Sox, and most likely are topping the Red Sox now after their increase this year.

Truth Injection - Do you recall the shot at Charlie?

What was the shot at Charlie?

MG: I do believe that Ruben wants to add a starter. But not at that price. I didn't even need to see the price- I saw the name Brett Myers and immediately realized it was a joke based off the fact that the entire thread was devolving into an argument about what kind of person he is.

I know people want to believe that Ruben is a dunce and incapable of being a good GM but anyone knows that he would be publicly lynched if he made that move. People just like to believe the worst.

TK: Call me what you want. Sorry I'm not as big a dumba## as you are.

I just don't want the Mets to have our ex-jackass in their stable.

brett and Slugga: The video is at but the gist was that they were showing highlights of Louis Oosthuizen winning. The announcer said "The South American fellow who makes everyone sound like Charlie Manuel pronouncing his name."

It was stupid and just unnecessary.

NEPP - Defensively Ibanez still has two legs that work. Gives him a huge range advantage. Offensively he probably gets the edge too even though both would likely be disappointing from a power perspective this season.

"People fell for it because they always want to believe the most ridiculous things that paint the team and FO in a negative light."

I think you're actually the one who wants to believe this about certain posters. And, as a result of those beliefs, you're reading far too much into the fact that a few of us fell for NEPP's prank. I heard a trade report. NEPP's a reliable source. It seemed like an excessive package, but not a totally outlandish one, for one of the better starting pitchers available & someone whom the Phillies might plausibly have regarded as as a proven fit in the clubhouse. So, for a moment, I believed it. That's pretty much all there is to it. And Rizzotti certainly isn't one of the Phillies' top prospects.

For the record, I also think Myers is a jackass. But if you look through the last thread, then you'd have to conclude he's the devil and not just some run of the mill jackass.

And you'd have to conclude that he is someone who can never be forgiven for what he's done. And that sure seemed to be the almost universal opinion. On BL. Not in most sane places. But on BL.

Great stuff, NEPP! I lol'd.

And, in aksmith's defense, ALL ELSE ASIDE*, Brett Myers sure seemed like a great guy to have in the clubhouse. He was one of those "swagger" guys who helped build the team's confidence over the last few years. If Cholly (the "team chemistry" guru) wanted him back, that's good enough for me.

* - I understand that the ALL ELSE contains some nasty stuff. But I also believe that people can change and forgiveness is a virtue. Personally I'd welcome him back.

WSPFBAT = Would Someone Please Fetch Beerleaguer A Towel...because we are throwing it in.

re: carindals pitching

I actually dont even care who the opposing pitcher is anymore.

This team can(has) be shut out by the worst and can beat out the best so the fact that we face Carpenter or Hawksworth is pretty much pointless beacuse of the inconsistencies this season.

Marley: Duck.

BAP: You are here everyday posting numerous times in multiple threads. You know damn well that there are people on here who do nothing but complain about the FO. That isn't some criticism I pulled out of the air. It's a very real observation that anyone who spends enough time on here would notice.

This thread was devolving into a debate about Brett Myers. NEPP comes in then with the Phillies possibly trading 2 of their top 5 system guys (in the opinion of the guy who runs Phuture Phillies) and another guy who is a nice little piece in the farm system. The bigger issue is the chain of events indicated it was a joke. I truly can't see how someone who is clearly intelligent (which is how I view you) fell for it unless your viewpoint is slanted in a particular direction.

aksmith - The only word I've used to describe Myers is "jackass." You're the one who's attaching things like "devil" to the conversation, and as far as I can tell you're the only one who was talking about how he should "blow his brains out" or "hang a noose around his head", and now attributing that opinion to everyone else who was referring to him as a jackass.

So I'm not sure if you're talking about yourself?

Brown can still make the game if he drives 80 mph on 70W.

so aksmith is brett myers, got it.

haha i am also loving the tti/bap debate of the quality of NEPP's fake rumor.

In other news, has any one noticed the Fightin' Phils sorta scuffling a bit lately?

Marley: I didn't notice anything, but I've wondered if things might get to that. The tension in that clubhouse must be high, and it will only take something small to set off a rhubarb.

Speaking of rhubarbs, that Tim McCarver sure knows how to paint a picture with words:

BAP, you are really saying that TTI just 'wants' to believe that all some posters want to do is trash the FO and that it isn't actually true? The last game thread devolved into a complete thrashing of Amaro as if he were somehow to blame for the embarrassing play from the Phils last night. The previous day's thread regarding Castro's release came with an immediate demand that Amaro 'admit his mistake,' as if the release itself wasn't admitting the mistake. What do you want, a press conference? You want Amaro to come to your house and personally apologize for three and a half months of Juan Castro?

Some people here will say and/or believe anything because all they want to do is trash the FO. That's fine. But don't be disingenuous and tell someone who points that out that they just "want" to believe that. You're not that stupid.

Chris in VT - I think you can go back and read the previous thread as well as anyone. Maybe you only used the word jackass, but others went further.

Kutztown: Oops, I should have considered my words more carefully. I was making a purposely-oblivious statement using "scuffling" in the Wheels sense of the term: "having a bit of trouble out there." Didn't mean to suggest intrateam friction (although it's gotta be frustrating for everybody).

As for McCarver, I think he's scuffling a bit.

"You're not that stupid."


Moving on:

- Werth is rated by the 2nd best positional player available at the trading deadline according to Heyman (who seems to put out a stream of stuff this time of year that is somewhat lean on credibility):

I did think this was kind of funny - 'One talent evaluator's view of the market for relievers: "Absolutely terrible." Guess the Phils won't be acquiring any help for the pen.

Besides Downs, there doesn't seem like another reliever who is really generating much interest. Does make me think that Durbin/Contreras might have a bit more value than I first thought if the Phils do go into the tank the next 2 weeks and become sellers.

Yo, new thread

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