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Friday, July 30, 2010


Jamie Moyer was and is my favorite Phillie ever. Hate to see him go if that's what happens, but we can still get him another ring!!

Moyer has had one of the most unique careers in MLB history, and it's been awesome having him as a part of the Phils over the last few years.

Moyer was subject to more personal hatred and vitriol on this blog than any other Phillie, including Adam Eaton. He came up big in big games down the stretch and defied the numerous posters here who declared him washed up or worthless in 2008, 2009 and 2010.

He won't be back here, but it would be nice to see him get one more successful season in before he hangs 'em up.

Never thought Moyer would be a starter here for 4 1/2 years when they picked him up in '06 or win 56 games. Same on winning 56 games or winning a win with this team in '08.

Moyer actually ended on a pretty good note all things considered. He came back this year when everybody had written him off, had a few really strong performances including the historical shutout, and proved that even at 48 he could be a MLB-caliber starting pitcher.

Interesting, I never read any personal hatred or vitriol regarding Moyer. All I read was frustration for 1.5 seasons of 86 ERA+ pitching. Which isn't bad, but isn't great either.

But don't let facts get in the way of your heroic narrative, you fearless defender of Jamie Moyer!

P.S. I really like the guy, and I hope he returns as a LOOGY at around $1.5M plus incentives.

Frustrated by a renegade tribe of Braves attacking the NL East rail line. Several prominent gunslingers have formed a posse in Philadelphia headed by Sherrif Charlie. Country Roy has traveled from Texas to meet up with the posse in Washington. He joins Doc Halladay, Kyle the Kid, Lefty Cole and Kentucky Joe.

47 and not 48 until Nov. Still, Moyer got the thing he wanted most (a ring) and the Phils got some value out of his last 2 years even if they overpaid.

I'll always remember Jamie Moyer for two things:

(1) Winning the final game of the 2007 season.

(2) taking the rubber from the mound after the world series ("That's a crafty veteran," one of his teammates said) and

clout - Your being way overboard.

Will Moyer be healthy for spring training? If so, I wouldn't write his Phillie career off so quickly. I doubt any team, other than the Phils, will offer him an even 1 year contract. If he is healthy, there is no reason to offer Moyer a 1 year, incentive based contract to start the season as our 5th starter. And Moyer seems to be the sort of guy would accept such a deal to just keep playing baseball.

Not great endings for Happ or Moyer, but Moyer 'could' be given a ST invite with an opportunity to win a job. And there are always the Mets.:)

Happ seemed genuinely disappointed, and based on his attitude, contribution, etc., I feel badly for him.

Now he's in Houston and has Ed Wade building a team around him.

Moyer was a guy who got bashed quite a bit last year by people- rather unfairly.

However, in the time he was here Moyer was a class act all the way. He had the storybook season where he helped his childhood team win a World Series for the first time in 28 years and was on the other side of the championship parade.

It's a shame that this is probably the way his Phillies career ends, but time will tell that he was an integral part of the Phillies mini-dynasty they have going. Also, it's hard to know exactly how much he helped the career of young Cole Hamels- a guy who hopefully is helping this team for a long time.

It was a pleasure to watch Moyer pitch, and just play the game, over the past few seasons. He played with a passion that guys half his age in the majors never show.

The question I have isn't just whether the Phils would offer him a 1-yr deal, but whether he'd accept what they'd offer. He got a good deal before because he fought for it.

I refuse to contribute to Moyer's Phillies epitaph as, I'm not convinced he won't be in camp in 2011. The guy's like the 90 year old down at the post office who won't retire and, all the young guys want to smother because he gets first crack at all the plum jobs and OT.

The main criticism of Moyer last year was that he was a below average starter and the Phils needed to replace him in the rotation if they wanted to win the NL East.

Guess what. They did with Pedro who was a clear improvement down the stretch.

Sophist, if the Phils did offer him a 1 year deal which was somewhat competitive to other offers (or he didn't have any other offers), and he still wanted to play baseball, but he didn't accept the offer, then some of the praise that we are giving Moyer in this thread would have to be recanted.

Given that the Phils are going to need every dollar they have to round out the rest of the roster, giving Moyer a guaranteed deal is a poor use of funds. Much rather see them spend that $1-$2M on bullpen/bench help.

sifl: The negativity and attacks on Moyer were far worse than on other players. Obviously, your obsession with me (90% of all your posts are directed to me) has clouded your thinking on this issue, but more objective and more knowledgable posters know what I'm talking about.

i would just like to say i love and will dearly miss my favorate junk ball hurler god bless jamie i hope your journey is not finished and know it will never be forgotten.

MG- revisionist history. Go back and take a look at some of the comments in game threads last year when Moyer started. Way above and beyond just simple 'criticism.'

Moyer got a good deal because Amaro was him a 2nd guaranteed year and essentially bid against himself because Minaya said he wasn't going to give Moyer a 2nd guaranteed year. Only an option.

Clout: to be fair, I did hear that he liked to drown puppies on his off days.

Iceman: I suspect MG, GTown Dave, Jack, GM Carson and the other posters who led the attacks on Moyer now have a different recollection of those posts.

Moyer is a class-act. I wouldn't be suprised if he heals well and get aa invitation to S.T. next year. As far as Happ, hated to see him go. He seemed to have his head together on the mound. He has talent, and if he stays healthy, should be a fine addition to Houston's rotation. To get, you have to give and so it goes. And unfortunately injuries happen. Moyer won't be the last player to succomb to an injury. I'd like to see him back. Even as the pitching coach someday. I wish both of those guys the best of luck.

Jamie Moyer is Washed Up™

That, above, is the vitriol I hurled upon Old Man Moyer for the last year.

Although, to be fair, Bobby Abreu received much more vitriol since he was too laid back, wasn't a good defender and prevented this team from making the playoffs. Trading him is the best thing the Phillies have ever done.

(Let the countdown begin... 3... 2... 1...)

Woo hoo!!!!!!!!

J-Roll is back in tonight's lineup. I hope he's healthy again!

iceman - He did get alot of flack on here but he didn't at the ball park at all last year considering he had an ERA of 6 well into June.

Winning can calm the savage's best heart because even Blanton this year with his terrible overall numbers really hasn't heard it that badly at all from the fans despite some pretty crappy outings.

whats the line up for tonight??


"Smoke in mirrors"?

For all intensive purposes, I think it's supposed to be "smoke and mirrors."

Moyer was definitely the subject of a heightened level of wailing and gnashing of teeth from the time he got signed to the 2 year deal, with the howling reaching fever pitch on days he pitched. However, I don't recall any of it being particularly 'hate-filled' or 'vitriolic' (except for teh immediate aftermath of his impromptu press conference to complain about getting sent to the bullpen.) I see Iceman seconds clout's recollection but, since Iceman responds to all negative criticism as if the Phils' roster was composed of his younger brothers and sisters, I think we're still waiting on an 'objective and knowledgeable' poster to second clout's claim.

clout - Yeah I did think it was one of Amaro's dumber signings to give Moyer a 2nd guaranteed year. He could have played hardball a bit with Moyer. Instead he rewarded Moyer for '08 and overpaid.

I also did wanted him removed from the rotation last year by the middle of the season and especially after they signed Pedro. Just didn't want him released because it didn't serve a purpose.

As for this year, I thought he would actually end up winning more games than Happ this year (and then is when I thought Happ was going to be healthy).

anon: I prefer the less intensive purposes, personally.

Hugh: As one of the leading critics, your credibility on this issue is zero.

""Smoke in mirrors"?

For all intensive purposes, I think it's supposed to be "smoke and mirrors.""

When Mrs. Utley is standing in front of more than one mirror, it is "smokin' mirrors"!!!!

clout was subject to more personal hatred and vitriol on this blog than any other poster, including mvptommy. He irritated people in a big way in big posts down the stretch and defied the numerous posters here who declared him washed up or worthless in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010.

He will, however, be back here, but it would be nice to see him get one more successful brain cell in before he hangs 'em up.

Jason, just checking here, but are you implying that Moyer is, somehow, washed up?

God help you if you are....

2nd guaranteed year on FA signings has been one of the questinoable calling cards of Amaro's tenure that kind of started with Gillick's tenure.

For whatever reason, the Phils aren't opposed to giving 2-yr guaranteed deals to bench players and bullpen guys. Yeah they save a little in the 1st year but they end up paying alot more overall.

Seemed to start with the Helms/Nunez signings but the worst examples probably were the Feliz and Moyer signings. With Feliz, Gillick said there were multiple teams pursuing him and they needed to give him 2 guaranteed years. Well, it turned out Gillick was either wrong/lying because the only team that was really pursuing Feliz was the Giants and Sabean flat out said he refused to given Feliz the 2nd guaranteed year. Only an option with a buyout.

This thread is trending downward...

Well written Jason.

The Moyer trade in 2006, should go down as one of the better "low profile" moves this organization has made in a while.

Anybody remember who he was traded for? Me either.

Happ was never fully accepted by some in the organization, it seems. Maybe too many "Keith Law-types" there, who have different metrics to determine who can pitch and who can't. I know Cholly was a big fan of his though. And even though I am sure he is estatic to have Oswalt, he is also likely sad to see Jay go.

Moyer's shutout against the Braves back in May was one of my favorite games this year -- and I was, like many others, convinced he was finished back in spring training. I don't think he's finished now. He'll turn up somewhere, and I hope he ends up in the Phillies organization when he hangs up his spurs in 20 years. I imagine he'll be a fixture around here.

It's a pity about Happ -- it was fun watching him defy the laws of sabermetrics last year. He also handled both the '09 preseason SP battle and the constant trade negotiations with grace. I'll root for him in Houston.

Now bring on the Vice Roy!

If Moyer doesn't pitch another inning, I do think he has more than a 50/50 shot of getting elected eventually to the HOF by the Veteran's Committee about 15-20 years down the road. It wasn't for his overall numbers or any individual seasons but more of what he accomplished historically as a starting pitcher in his later years.

clout: Nice try, brother. Pass me that bottle.

As someone who's a big fan of Jamie Moyer, I challenge you to find a single vitriolic or hate-filled post of mine directed at any Phillies player, much less Jamie Moyer. I'll concede excessive pessimism and negativity as that's in-bred in virtually all Irish Catholics from Eastern PA but, there's no hate in my heart nor in my posts.

We all called for Moyer's head when he returned this year and he proved us all wrong. The 2 hit shutout this year at the age of 47 truly redefined the word "impossible" that gets thrown around so often these days.

I agree with Jack's comment that Moyer's career as being labeled "unique". That's Jamie Moyer in a word for sure.

For he who asked: Moyer was obtained for two Andy's: Barb and Baldwin.

Marlowe - That is what I was surprised by. Even though Moyer came into camp as it opened, posted really strong numbers, and demonstrated his normal strong control and velocity, people dismissed him. That is when I become sold that he could contribute this year as the 5th starter.

Love Jamie Moyer! I would love it if he would be a pitching coach for the Phillies, maybe with the young kids in the minors. I think he has a lot to offer, still.

And darn it, I never did make it to one of his Celebrity Waiter events.

Thanks for taking space to pay tribute to Moyer and Happ, JW. They deserve it.

In honor of Jamie, whether or not we see him pitch again for the Phillies, I'm reposting a link I put up a few weeks ago, when he was on the verge of giving up his record home run. You can listen to this or scroll down a little bit for the transcript. Enjoy!

Moyer was a waiver deal and was widely presumed to be playing the last month or so of his career. Points for anyone who ever heard of the guys that went West for him.

I prefer the Latin description, sui generis, for Moyer. He has no known precedent.

Vomit Guy: it comes!
Guard: watch your shoes, by God!
Warden: what's up, Chuck?

Moyer was immediately declared washed up last season. He was bashed and people said he should hang it up because he was old and couldn't play anymore.

When he had his press conference and expressed some displeasure (understandably so) with being moved to the bullpen people lit into him.

it was a shame.

As far as personal attacks go, I'd have to think Brett Myers received the worst (deservedly so). Beerleaguers were also personally cruel to Rod Barajas, Wes Helms, and Adam Eaton. And the comments about Werth (partying, coveting teammates' wives, etc.) have been pretty nasty lately, too.

Looks like the Yankees are about to acquire Lance Berkman.

i do feel bad for happ because the injury obviously played a big role here.....

As for Moyer, I don't really feel bad because I think he wanted to pitch until he blew his arm out and thats exactly what happened.

If this is really the end of his career he went out having a pretty good season and didn't putz around the minors like rickey. Its not exactly storybook, but its still good.

I think MVPTommy got it the worst... I mean seriously, who gets banned from a blog?

This thread needs some Dom "Perignon" Brown.

Clout, I would say Hamels has gotten it a lot worse in the past couple of years than Moyer. The "sissy boy" sort of comments re: Cole are terrible.

Moyer was subject to more personal hatred and vitriol on this blog than any other Phillie, including Adam Eaton.

It wasn't pretty, but it wasn't even close to the hatred directed Feliz's way (let alone Chan Ho Park). And guess who was leading the charge of haters of Feliz? Could it be a certain poster who has now mounted his steed to defend the honer of grandpa against uncouth and mean-spirited BL posters? Could it be a certain poster who regularly slings insults like Roy Halladay slings strikouts? Could it be a certain poster who spews vitriol like Ryan Howard spews home runs?

Could it?


Right, Hamels should be on that list, too.

Mark Kram is on DSL and man he is depressing as hell. I loathe when he is on.

From the various beat writers (Stark, Rosenthal, Morosi, etc.), I learned today that Cody Ross is both available and completely unavailable for trade.

I don't comment much, but to suggest that Moyer has been on the receiving end of "more personal hatred and vitriol on this blog than any other Phillie, including Adam Eaton," seems a bit over the top. Eaton leads the way, by a long shot. Myers, Hamels, Lidge and Feliz as well.

I agree, Jamie was money in 2007 when we needed him. And watching what he did to the Yankees this year. Who knows what will happen. I heard RAJ on WIP today, he said tough decisions this off-season which makes me think - he thinks he needs to make some trades. i doubt he'll be able to move Blanton but if he does, perhaps we'll see Jamie again. Definitely should at least get an invite to spring training.

On Jamie: Thank you very much for all you have done for the team! Jamie was the change-up of the rotation. Opposing batters are used to seeing low to mid 90s stuff and then comes Jamie with his high 70s junk. It throws their timing off and the ball movement is different at the lower velocities. I mean, 56-40 with 4.55 is not bad for a 5th starter over the past 4.5 years. There is a possible niche for pitchers like Jamie, slow but accurate, if they could just learn how to be effective at low speed like he is.

I doubt he'll be back with the Phillies. The outlook of the team has changed so much in his short tenure. When he got here, we were a young unproven club striving to get better and now that he's gone we are the defending NL champs what won it all the year before. But if he can be healthy and in shape next spring, I can see him getting a tryout invite from clubs that have young rotations. 1 year incentive laden. Heck, he might get some calls to be a pitching coach. Whatever the case, I wish him well.

On Happ: Good luck with the new team. I was looking forward to seeing him mature with the Phillies. I thought he had potential to do very well with us. However, these next few years are key for the Phillies and Oswalt is an upgrade over that span. When I say "key", I mean that these are the prime years of the core of the ballclub and they should do everything that they can to win some rings in that time.

Actually, everyone's recalling of names is making me realize there's plenty of hate to go around on BL! Or, at least, mocking and disgust.

Where would the Yankees use Berkman? DH? I can't remember who their DH is this year.

A shame. Another likable player I now must dislike because he's become a Yankee. ;)

It's a fan's God-given right to bitch about players, even the ones they love -- it's part of being a fan. I have no problem with the griping.

The more interesting question to me is which 'hate'/griping on BL has been most irrational? I say Hamels, hands down.

Sorry if we did this already, but Wilson Ramos+ for Matt Capps?!? It's an odd market where Dan Haren or Roy Oswalt gets dealt for next to nothing (in comparison) to a closer who, while having a good season, does not usually net arguably the best catching prospect in the minors.

Yo, new thread.

I would love to see Happ do better than Oswalt. Check out leave comments ask qs and follow me on Twitter at beatboston1995

I think Happ deserved a "Bobble Head" Day. And Jamie Moyer should have got a convertible.

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