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Tuesday, June 22, 2010

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Felt like a loss? I don't even care at this point.

I was worried about a a Jason Donald 4-4, and a post game quote like this...

"Well there is this guy clout, and he said I couldn't play a major-league shortstop. The 4-4 was nice, but the 27 put outs at SS feels much better."

Moyer's ability to keep coming back and to keep pitching like this is truly remarkable. That's why it always irks me when he has a bad outing and then everyone jumps on the "He's Finished!" bandwagon. Here's a guy who has more surgeries in the off season than I have had in my life and where many would retire he comes back and wins his job back. He has a bad inning where he coughs up a 5 spot, he comes back and shuts them down. He has the worst outing of his career against Boston and comes back and has one of his best outings against the Yankees and then shuts down the Tribe. He truly is an ageless wonder and I couldn't be happier when he has days like this. He belongs on this team.

And the Braves are finally running into a hot team in the White Sox. Good-good.

Moyer should be a national storyline. What he's doing at his age is basically unprecedented in baseball history. It's awesome.

Old Phan mentioned at the end of the last thread that Detroit has closed to within 5 of the Mets in the 5th inning. Still a long way to go, but nothing would make me happier to pick up a game in the standings while watching a classic Met collapse.

Well said, Greg. He is far from finished.

Great to see Lidge coming in and getting the job done again.

I almost forgot the feeling of confidence that's there when your team is ahead late and there's a guy who can preserve the lead and close out the game.

It makes it even more amazing that we won the NL last year, not having a guy like that.

I'm proud to say I had a feeling Moyer would be good. Can't say I had the same feeling about Kendrick. I backed him in the past, but wrote him off in April. Two best stories of the season.

Dom Brown went 3-4 with 2 HRs tonight.

Looks like the front office knew what it was doing when it kept Brown over everyone else. The kid looks like a future star.

JW, good job on scoping out Moyer.

Got any 'feelings' about what numbers will come up in Powerball?

Limo: My track record is good not great. Bombed on Abe Nunez, Freddy Garcia and others, but picked a few good sleepers along the way. Thought both Park and Contreras would be good sleepers, and were. Was the VERY first to champion the Chooch cause and was an early backer for Victorino. But I've also liked a lot of guys I shouldn't have, like Zach Segovia.

Jamie IS the AGELESS WONDER!!

==============================================

This blog post was brought to you by RAJ - the GM with a purpose - & only he knows what that purpose is...

Moyer wasn't really a reach for me. He was great after the 2009 all-star break.

Does Brown have a chance to be #1 overall in 2011?

Chisox 9 Braves 6

3 out in the 9th

Chisox bring in closer - Jenks

atl - man on 2nd

this sounds like the Phillies on Sat?

JW: Wasn't Jamie Moyer removed from the rotation after the 2009 all-star break?

except jenks got the final out & defeat the braves!

yay!!!

Mets just put up more runs - beating Tigers 14-6

Cheesh!

Jamie Moyer's ERA in the second half of 2009 was 3.49? I do NOT remember that. Good call, JW.

Moyer keeps dazzling and inspiring. Its awesome to see. All class. Seeing these outings only helps KK to follow suit.

Don't worry about the Mets nate- they have given up 6 runs this game and it's not even over yet. They can't count on scoring 14 runs all the time. The official scorer will chalk that one up as an 'UNDESERVED' win.

Iceman: Actually the Mets may get 3 wins for tonight.

back from the game:

ump call on raul was insane, vic had that play beat by a mile, you dont make that call.

moyer had the fans on their feet more than once, what a great presence he brings to the game.

JC brought on as closer? What gives? I understand Shoo was a lefty looming, but then he goes vs. Santana next? Do not understand.

Sausage and peppers remains the unheralded champ of bang for your buck at the ballpark. (bulls bbq's mac and cheese is closing in tho).

JW - Actually spring training was where I thought Moyer would be decent this year. It was really tough to know what he would give you coming off of those 2 offseason surgeries.

Instead, he came into camp ahead of time, in great shape, and had great results. I thought he might win 10-11 games this year. Didn't think he would have a legit shot at reaching 14 or more wins though.

RE: Romero/Lidge

Both were up in the bullpen after Jamie was officially lifted for a PH, & at least one of the Phillies' beat writers indicated via Twitter that the plan was for both to enter the game in the 9th (presumably Romero for match-ups, & Lidge to finish 'em off). Not surprisingly I instantly hated the idea, & still do. Romero has a bad habit of allowing base runners -- honestly, have the Phillies not watched him pitch lo' these past few years? -- & Lidge has a troubled enough history in appearances where he starts the inning & lets the first batter on base. Planning to bring Lidge into a game knowing he'll probably have to deal w/ inherited runners is a dumb plan, & Romero lived down to expectations by allowing two base runners before he could record a second out. Or to put it another way, would you rather see Lidge come in needing three outs w/ no one on, or two outs w/ one or more on? I know I'll take Lidge needing three outs w/ no one on almost every time.

In the end the Phillies were very fortunate Lidge had decent stuff tonight, & was facing a Cleveland club that's in the bottom 1/3 of MLB teams offensively. Whether it was Mackanin or Manuel who came up w/ the 9th inning pitching plan (& I do not at all believe Charlie abandons making managerial decisions once he's tossed), it sucks. Unfortunately, Lidge's post game interview on 1210AM seemed to indicate we'll be seeing more of the same (that is to say, another pitcher starting the 9th, & Lidge coming in to finish). I say there's no point in paying a guy $11.5 million per year to close if you're not going to start the 9th inning of a Save situation game w/ said guy on the mound.

thephaithful: Right there w/ you on the Sausage & Peppers. Still haven't tried the Bull's BBQ Mac & Cheese, though. I really need to do that. Maybe Friday night.

Until the Mets get another bonafide starter, they are not the team I am really concerned about in the East.

RE: Brown's chances at #1 prospect

He was ranked #15 before this season. So far, #1 Heyward, #2 Strasburg, #3 Stanton, #5 Matusz, #7 Posey, #8 Alvarez, #9 Feliz, #10 Santana, #12 Escobar, and #13 Smoak have had enough time in the big leagues that they wouldn't be considered prospects anymore.

That leaves #4 Jesus Montero, #6 Desmond Jennings, #11 Dustin Ackley, and #14 Madison Bumgarner.

Montero has struggled this year in AAA, hitting .239/.303/.387, but doesn't turn 21 until November.
Jennings has held his own in AAA, but his offensive numbers pale in comparison to Brown's AA numbers (he's hitting .273/.355/.391).
Ackley's Southern League (AA) numbers: .252/.390/.372
Bumgarner has put up a 3.16 ERA with a 1.33 WHIP in AAA (if I remember right, the PCL is a pretty extreme hitter's league - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that). He's another guy who hasn't turned 21 yet.

Meanwhile, Brown improved his slash line tonight to a ridiculous .324/.398/.614. I've gotta think he'll be in the running for #1 prospect (certainly top 5) and I'd guess his Philadelphia ETA will be sometime around June of next year.

Wow...Tommy Hanson looks like a future ace, but this line is impressive:

3.2 IP, 13 H, 9 ER, 1 BB, 0 K

Didn't know the White Sox had it in them.

MG: Beerleaguer is going to explode when Cliff Lee gets traded to the Mets.

Franzke and LA had the 9th figured out all the way. They said JC would be in for the first 3 hitters, and then Lidge.

Slugga - Don't worry. He isn't going to end up in NY. My bet is the Mets do get another starter though at the trading deadline because reality will set in for Dickey sooner than later, I am not sold on that Niese is the #3 starter they need, and Santana looks awfully mortal this year.

goody: I enjoyed your comment on b_a_p's potential quest. If that is truly his goal, it's a shame he'll never return to post here again.

Bay Slugga- please don't say that.

As much as I hate rehashing the Lee trade (we got Halladay, whatever, cope with it and move on), the one thing that would gut me (aside of him joining the Yankees and murdering us in a WS rematch) is seeing him pitch for the Mets. I would do a 180 as a person and as a fan. I'd be on Rube's doorstep with a pitchfork the next morning.

One of my buddies said it best when discussing where Lee might end up: "If he ends up on the Mets, just picture me like Matt Damon in The Departed when he's in the elevator- kneeling down in a bloodied mess muttering "Kill me, please just f***ing kill me."

"Manuel said he chose to have Romero start the ninth inning because he’s a lefty and two of Cleveland’s first three hitters (Trevor Crowe and Carlos Santana) in the inning were switch-hitters that the Phillies preferred to have bat from the right side. The middle hitter in the inning, Shin-soo Choo, is a left-handed hitter.

Manuel had been ejected from the game in the fourth inning, but still called the shots from the clubhouse. He said his decision to bypass closer Brad Lidge at the start of the inning was all about match-ups and had nothing to do with the fact that Lidge had blown a save in his previous outing on Saturday."

Phillies Win Can't Hide Skipper's Bad Mood

"Actually the Mets may get 3 wins for tonight."

Sorry TTI, you clearly aren't following the BL logic from the previous thread. If the Phils were awarded one win for scoring an unacceptable 2 runs, the transitive property dictates that the Mets should receive credit for seven wins by scoring 14.

It's simple, really.

phaithful, I was at the game too. Did JRoll look 100% to you? I didn't think so.

Finally got to see a game in person tonight (home from West Coast visiting family) and what a phenomenal performance! Called strike for the 3rd out in the 8th was a real baseball moment (as were Lidge's K's). Cheers to those posters who've stuck with and stuck up for Jamie through his ups and downs. He is and has been an integral part of the best team in Phillies history. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Halladay: 1.08 WHIP, 7th in NL
Moyer: 1.06 WHIP, 6th in NL

Unreal.

I'm so disappointed they only won 2-1. If it was 14-1, I'd be much happier.

Moyer's home ERA this year, if my math is correct: 3.00.

Expect the unexpected - I've come a long way from last June where I see Moyer's name as the night's probable and circle it as a win. Never a doubt - until Romero was up in the pen.

What's the scoop on BAP? Couldn't find goody's post which GTown refers to.

Halladay: 1.08 WHIP, 7th in NL
Moyer: 1.06 WHIP, 6th in NL

Careful you might discredit the stat. But despite what this number says Halladay has generally pitched better so what's the deal?

Moyer is the teams ace.
Halladay is Millwood circa 2010.

On Moyer and age:

Phil Niekro (yes, I know a knucklballer) started 32 games in his Age 47 season, threw 210.1 innings, had an ERA of 4.32 and went 11-11 with an ERA+ of 96.

So, its a pretty small list.

It should be noted that Niekro's peripherals that year were terrible while Jamie's have been outstanding.

If you take out the abberation in Boston, Jamie has posted the following line:

11 GS, 7-4, 2.95 ERA.

Not bad out of a washed up 47 year old.

Three more of these Moyer dissections and he takes Halladay's place at the All-Star Game.

I try not to look at the standings during this recent horrible stretch of games because it depresses me, but I was a tad surprised to see that the Mets were only 1.5 out and the Phils were 4.5 out. I didn't realize we were three games behind the Mets. That makes me angry.

Next 10 series:

PHI:
TOR, CIN, PIT, ATL, CIN, CHC, STL, COL, ARI, WSH

NYM:
MIN, FLA WSH, CIN, ATL, SF, ARI, LAD, STL, ARI

ATL:
DET, WSH, FLA, PHI, NYM, SD, FLA, WSH, CIN

Little noted from last night- if Romero could field his position decently instead of falling out of position after each pitch- he would have had the second out in the 9th. Maybe eased up the blood pressure of several thousand fans a point or two.

Maybe he should pay attention to the senior member of the staff who does the little things right because he knows he needs every advantage he can get to be effective.

Jamie has earned every dollar of his contract despite the many who oomplained earlier this season as though he were stealing Ruben's money.

RB -- Last night, I almost posted that an early July sweep of the Braves was mandatory. This morning, I'm convinced that is the case.

Heck, maybe we catch up sooner, but the upcoming Braves series is the smackdown/gutcheck of the season for the Phils. I need a first place team to root for. Here's hoping KK and Young Jamie™ (Jimmy Rollins, too!!) keep on rolling.

Bruce - the Phils are definitely like 0-30 in all of these beerleaguer proclaimed 'mandatory' wins. yet still seem to win the division.

I know this thread is about Moyer, and I dont wanna take anything away from the young guy, but no one has really been griping about Victorino lately. His BA is down to .245... Are we just blowing this off for now since he was batting lead off which is a roll he probably doesn't belong in?

Bull's is definitely the best food at any ballpark I've ever been to. The most under rated item there is the shaved turkey sandwich. Smoked and delicious, I like it best as is, without BBQ sauce.

Phils have the 3rd worst BABIP in the NL (.287), in between HOU and SDP, and slightly ahead of Pittsburgh. How long do you think that will hold up? One of these days we will start to see that even out a bit. And as bad as they've played, they're still only 3 games back in the loss column with 3 games at hand. One good week and everyone is happy again.

Moyer's BABIP is .235 - couple that with a BB/9 under 2 and a low WHIP is pretty likely.

george: price on the sandwich? come with sides? big sandwich?

Bull's BBQ is the crack cocaine of ballpark food. I think I once spent $50 there just on myself through the course of a game. They dont make a bad thing.

Pulled Pork from Bull's and Crab Fries is heaven on Earth...sure, you sit through 2 separate lines to get both but its the best meal on earth.

rollins isn't 100% but he won't be 100%. no amount of rest is going to change that until the offseason when he can get months of rest. then, it'll heal.

I'm admittedly not as well-versed on the ins & outs of Minor League Baseball as some of the other posters, but what does Brown have to do to get moved to AAA already? It's beginning to remind me of how Howard was handled.

I'm lucky enough to make several trips to CBP every year (roughly 30-40) and I would say 75% of the time, I eat at Bull's. There is not one thing on that menu that isn't delicious. George, you are dead on. The shaved turkey sandwich is fantastic and extremely underrated. The "Bull Dog" is also a great treat. The pulled pork sandwich platter is what I normally go for, however.

Great, now I'm hungry.

And now, back to you regularly scheduled Phils bashing.

GTown..its not even close to the same as Howard. He's 22 in AA and having his first breakout year. He'll likely be moved up very shortly, play in Lehigh till Sept, get a callup to the Phillies and be a major-league invite next spring. Right on schedule.

He's not wasting away in the minors as some would have it seem.

Besides, its not as if the level of competition is better in AAA than AA these days. It'll give him a chance to see more crafty veteran AAAA types but that's about all. Its not a major issue whatsoever.

NEPP,

Doesn't calling up a young star (Miggy/Willis in FLA in 03') sometimes provide a spark?

Joe Savery sent to the pen. I'm sure his high walk rates and low strike out rates will play well there.

Sometimes...but it also sometimes doesn't work out very well at all. For every "spark" provided, there are probably 5-10 guys that get overmatched or struggle out of the gate their rookie year.

Remember that great spark that Fernando Martinez gave the Mets? or Dexter Fowler on the Rockies?

"Bull's BBQ is the crack cocaine of ballpark food. I think I once spent $50 there just on myself through the course of a game. They dont make a bad thing.

Pulled Pork from Bull's and Crab Fries is heaven on Earth...sure, you sit through 2 separate lines to get both but its the best meal on earth"

NEPP - You couldn't be more dead on. My only issue is when I go to games, I have a tendancy to go with people from outside the philly area, and all they ever want is a Philly Cheesesteak. Don't get me wrong, I love me a philly cheesesteak, but Bulls, like you said, is CRACK.

****Joe Savery sent to the pen. I'm sure his high walk rates and low strike out rates will play well there.****

Maybe he's the minor-league version of Chan Ho Park? I have to agree that it looks pretty grim for him at this point.

NEPP: Fair enough. I'm curious, though - if the difference between AA & AAA is so slight, what's the harm in moving Brown up to face some different pitchers? He can't possibly be learning anything blasting the same guys. Again, not a huge deal, I'm merely curious.

Heather: http://bit.ly/bTZOpA :-)

Evidently, Brown's two shots yesterday were Branyanesque - http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=229727

Well, this will make Hanley happy:

Marlins Fire Fredi Gonzalez

Yes, because Fredi Gonzalez is all that is wrong with the Marlins. How about the fact that their payroll is one of the lowest and baseball and yet they're still a dangerous and competitive team? If anything, they're as good as they are due to good management. If I'm on the Marlins and my name isn't Hanley Ramirez, I'm pissed.

Well, the Braves will be happy. They've been connected to Gonzalez for months now a a possible replacement for Cox next year.

"If Brown indeed is able to respond to negativity he's got a great career ahead of him in Philadelphia, the town that once booed Santa Claus."

This from a Reading Eagle reporter?

JW- You gotta tell your old buddy he is spreading an old tired line and not likely endearing himself to anybody who reads that crap.

Bad enough the national media keeps that alive but a local scribe - that's just plain nuts!

(End of rant- back to BL )

Fredi should have gotten fired. Fish have underachieved this year despite investing some real dollars in the team this offseason & having a pretty good overall team that hasn't been decimated by injuries.

Too bad we won't see any more 'masters of managing' between Cholly & Fredi though. You almost always had a couple of head-scratching moves by these guys during a Fish-Phils series.

Loria never seems satisfied with his managers, regardless of the on-field results.

Moyer's just absolutely amazing...I have no idea how he keeps throwing these gems at 47 with absolute slop, but the man knows how to pitch.

MG: Agree w/ you RE: Fredi (& Fredi vs. Charlie). Still, it's painful to see an asshat such as Hanley "win".

Looks like that Moyer 2 yr deal isn't so bad after all. Ruben lucked out on that one, because yr 1 looked real bad. Due to our dearth in starting prospects, could Moyer be back on a 1yr extension?

Also, question on Phil Niekro for anyone old enough to remember. Was a he knuckleball pitcher his whole career or just as he got older when he had no other stuff left?

I'm sure to be roundly jeered for this, but Moyer is doing great with pretty crappy stuff. He's the classic overachiever. Could you imagine what he would do with Halladay's stuff?

Niekro was a knuckleballer extraordinaire as long as I can remember. Maybe in teh '60s he had some other stuff, but I never saw it. His brother, Joe, had a good knuckler, too, but he had a much larger repertoire and threw relatively few knucklers.

Halladay looks to be getting hit because he's leaving balls over the plate more than he intends. Moyer, on the other hand, has really had good command. I didn't see teh Boston debacle but, I'm assuming he didn't locate his pitches well in that one. If he keeps his pitches on/off hte black, he generally does very ewll.

Many would argue that Halladay also does great with less than stellar stuff. Think about it. He throws a low 90s fastball, a low 90s cutter, a changeup and a decent curve. He simply hits his spots...same as Jamie...same as Maddux.

Location trumps velocity when it comes to pitching.

Cliff Lee would be another guy that gets by with his excellent location rather than a great out pitch.


Brett Myers (a young brett Myers at least) would be the exact opposite of that phenomenan. Great curveball (one of the best in baseball when he was younger), good fastball but he was never more than "above average" as a result of not knowing how to pitch or how to locate.

If the Phillies pitching staff would just start throwing Cutters they'd all be as good as Halladay. Sitting next to him in the dugout would help, too.

****. I didn't see teh Boston debacle but, I'm assuming he didn't locate his pitches well in that one. If he keeps his pitches on/off hte black, he generally does very ewll.****

A quick review of the PitchFx data seems to support this. His release point was a bit off and he was grooving a bunch of pitches from what it looks like.

With a pitcher like Moyer, one of the factors that plays heavily into it is the guy in the mask behind the catcher.

Moyer, IRRC, does not "pitch" well when the ump squeezes.

It's a disadvantage to a pitcher like him. A power pitcher with a mid - high '90s FB can sometimes overpower hitters even when being squeezed.

I don't know if anyone cares, but USA just beat Algeria 1-0 to win Group C, and move on in the World Cup. Landon Donovan scored in the 90th minute.

Pretty interesting game.

Oops: "IIRC".

NEPP you are right on in your food reviews, but a little naive when it comes to Brown and the fiscal ways of the Phillies front office. He is staying in the minors, primarily AA this season because of the Arbitration clock no matter how great he does or what Ra-old does. He will get a September call up and either be in Scranton or Philly next spring. He isnt going to be a Philly till next season because of the bucks.

Haha I'm sorry Heather but you don't pitch successfully until you're 47+ with "pretty crappy stuff."

I agree. They've hit Moyer less than Halladay this year. Moyer has had one bad innings in a game but mows them down, they can't hit him. Halladay seems to be in trouble most every inning of every game (PG excepted)and usually pitches out of it.

[i]Pretty interesting game.[/i]

It was a completely exhilirating game, although it was also three minutes from being crushingly heartbreaking.

****He is staying in the minors, primarily AA this season because of the Arbitration clock no matter how great he does or what Ra-old does. He will get a September call up and either be in Scranton or Philly next spring. He isnt going to be a Philly till next season because of the bucks.****

I agree...and that's what I've been saying.

On a less serious note:

Man, I hope he's not in Scranton because if he is, then we traded him to the Yankees somehow.

"Halladay seems to be in trouble most every inning of every game (PG excepted) and usually pitches out of it."

See, & that's what Roy learned from sitting next to Kendrick in the dugout! Turnabout is Fair Play.


"We owe it to our fans to put this team in the best possible position to win. Everyone knows how I feel about winning. That's the reason we're making this change." - Jeffrey Loria

Again, not that I think Fredi was such a wonderful manager, but wouldn't a large part of putting the Marlins "... in the best possible position to win" be allocating more than a lousy $45 million for the team's payroll? Loria is basically saying "I'm going to nickel & dime this franchise to death, but I expect any manager I hire to lead us to the Post Season regardless".

Well, they have won 2 WS in the past 15 years...

I still hate them and every other small market club that pockets its revenue sharing rather than investing it in the on-field product (Royals, Pirates, Marlins, etc)

From Age 30 and on, Moyer has done the following:

512 GS, 232-147, 4.15 ERA, 109 ERA+, 1.279 WHIP

MLBTradeRumors has a links showing that Bobby Valentine might be the next Marlins manager....have fun with that, Hanley.

NEPP: Right on! The Marlins are everything that is wrong with baseball. They are a prime example of why there should be a salary floor if revenue sharing exists. Fans get mad at the players and their huge salaries, but the owners of small market teams get a pass.

Hate the Yankees all you want, but that team operates at a loss in order to put the best possible team on the field. They want to win. If the Marlins, for example, cared about "put[ting] this team in the best position to win" (as Loria says), they would shell out some of that revenue sharing money. It is pretty obvious that they care about profit first, winning second. It's a business, and making money is the purpose of owning a business. But don't fire your manager and say you want to win, when you refuse to put money into the team. All the while, your pockets are getting fatter.

They make me sick.

Ramirez and Valentine. That's volatile. If it happens, it'll be interesting.

timr, you mean "2 outs" from being crushingly heartbreaking.


After further thought, we may not always agree with Charlie's moves - I would have started the 9th with Lidge last night because of Romero's inability to throw strikes at times (Is it a lack of focus?) - but...Lidge admitted he had a little extra motivation when he went out there because of the move, so maybe it's not a bad message to send:

"We will have NO repeats of 2009. Get guys out, Brad, or you'll be relegated to sharing the role."

R.Billingsly - do you have a link that shows the Yankees operating at a loss? (Not being sassy, here, just wondering.)

I've met Bobby V. - doesn't seem like he's THAT volatile or overdemanding.

Of course, Hanley has really shown himself to be an asshat - another "Ramirez in the making".

I predict that in 5 years he'll be one of the most reviled players in the game.

Savery needs to go back to A ball and try to make it as a 1B a la Ankiel. I don't think the pitching thing is going to work. This probably should have been done a year ago.

Micky: Command? Control? Moyer has it in spades. Raw stuff? Nope. Maybe you're confusing the one with the other.

And on the Florida Marlins, Gonzalez surely isn't the best manager out there, but for a team with a $45 mil payroll who has consistently let their best players go (with the exception of this offseason when MLB started cracking down) their record is not bad at all.

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