Game chat: Big guns flexed in World Series rematch

Roy Halladay and CC Sabathia saddle up as the Phillies make a lineup switch, with Chase Utley batting second and Placido Polanco third. First pitch is 7:05 from Yankees Stadium. (Getty)

Halladay vs. Sabathia: Besides the Phillies, nobody was happier that Roy Halladay changed teams than the team that beat them in the World Series. The notorious Yankees killer posted an 18-6 mark and 2.81 ERA in 35 career starts against New York during his time with the Blue Jays. Halladay took a tough-luck loss in his last outing against Florida. Opponents have have gone deep just once against him in his last 62 innings, the last occurring May 23 against Boston. ... Following a one-and-done with the Brewers in the 2008 NLDS (ah, memories), tonight's starter CC Sabathia got his revenge in the 2009 fall classic, although in general, the Phils have never had great trouble with the imposing left-hander, who's 1-3 with a 4.74 ERA in six starts against them.

Bad bench: I've read a lot of comments about the bench and how a shake-up in that department wouldn't solve the Phillies' real issue of getting their 3-4-5 hitters off the schneid. True, but they're still atrocious, making it two-straight seasons of total futility off the pine. In 91 pinch hit chances, they're posting a 120/.189/.217, and when they're subbed into the game, they're hitting .164/.224/.259. Shoring up the bench has been a complete miss for Ruben Amaro.

Vote updates: Chase Utley and Placido Polanco are the leading National League vote-getters at second and third. Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins rank second at first and short, Carlos Ruiz is fourth behind the plate and Jayson Werth and Shane Victorino rank fourth and fifth among outfielders.

RIP RISP: Wimps I say. Wimps: .249/.349/.390 in 636 plate appearances, no small sample size.

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Comments

[NEPP]

1.5 years left to go on the Baez deal.

[AFish]

Herndon is a special case, because if he were not a Rule 5 guy, he would not be on the major league roster.

[clout]

denny b.: In terms of "best players" Castro ranks maybe 42nd on the depth chart, about 23 plcaes below Valdez.

[NEPP]

Castro wouldn't be the 25th best man in Lehigh... (obvious overstatement).

Castro is definitely a wiff by Rube...as anyone with any sense would have realized. Remember how quickly Rube jumped on him last November? I mean, it was his first move after the WS. Just insane. The guy shouldn't even have gotten an MLB deal, let alone a guaranteed spot on the 25 man.

[JBird]

Baez leads the team in appearances!?!

[NEPP]

****Baez leads the team in appearances!?!****

We've been playing a lot of losing baseball of late where UC has been "saving" the rest of the BP.

[denny b.]

Castro wasn't terrible very early on, when Rollins first got hurt. I was actually surprised he was hitting as well as he was.

But in the past month, he has reverted back to what I expected him to be...nothing. A old middle infielder with little range and absolutely no bat.

Basically he is Eric Bruntlett. Except Bruntlett gave us the Beerleaguer Rain Out picture and played in a World Series. Castro will give us neither.

Ruiz getting pinch-hit for by Bo Duke? I bet that feels good for Choocher.

[Gsl]

Its hilarious to read the BL posters who always need a whipping boy. Ibanez had a decent game so who to get, who to get.

Hey I know. Herndon got a ground ball to the shortstop that wasn't fielded. Lets rip him and the organization apart.

We are so wise.

[NEPP]

Bruntlett was better defensively...sadly.

[NEPP]

Gsl...nobody is saying it was Herndon's fault but he and the org would be better served with him developing in Lehigh. Its a waste of his roster spot.

[denny b.]

Halladay didn't come up very big tonight either. He threw a lot of slop up there tonight that was in the middle of the plate.

Sabathia was ripe for the taking, if he had been facing a good offensive team.

Ohh well, we get to see A-Rod back in the lineup tomorrow for NY. That will help the chances.

[BloodStripes]

Lidge, Contreras and Romero must be having fun playing cards everyday. Not much need to pitch for the one inning wonder offense

[phargo]

Urgh.

[GBrettfan]

Maybe KK will treat us to a gem tomorrow and Burnett will be off his game. Oh, and maybe our guys will eat some spinach and show up big and strong and ready to smack lotsa balls around the park.

[Scott]

Three runs on five hits, thanks mostly to CC losing control for a bit. Two innings where we mustered hits. No worries, Milt fans, his job should be safe for another day...

[JBird]

out like a lamb.

gsl - what's this we thing. I like Herndon (though he probably should be in AAA).

[Gsl]

I'd like to see Mathieson to see what he's got. I understand that sentiment.

However, I don't agree that Herndon is a waste of a roster spot. He misses barrels and gets weakly hit ground balls. Its not his fault if they are not fielded or find a hole. I think he has done his job successfully so far this season and that is why he is around. Its not just because he is a rule 5 pick.

[denny b.]

Raul has deserved the criticism he has earned here at BL this year.

A every-day corner outfielder with 4 HR's and 20 something RBI's and hitting about .250 almost to mid June and bringing home the money he is making, should expect to get ripped.

He's not the only one. This has been team effort in sucking for the past month. Can't just blame Brad Lidge or Ryan Madson, like we all did last year at this time. This year? Its the WHOLE organization that is sucking wind, from the top down.

[awh]

oh well, that sucked.

[Scott]

I guess Chan Ho felt okay tonight. Better than he did back in April...

[Gsl]

JBird- The "we" was me pretending to be speaking as part of the contingent here who always needs to be ragging on someone, whether their criticism is rational or not.

[Conshy Matt]

this is depressing. looks like i picked the wrong week to quit drinking.

[NEPP]

Herndon's BAA so far: .355 AVG/.388 OBP/.850 OPS

That's a bit skewed by a rough start but guys are still hitting .333 against him this month with a .757 OPS (not including tonight).

He isn't ready and Mathieson is. If he wasn't a Rule 5, he'd be in Lehigh...where he belongs.

I like him, I think he's got a lot of potential but he isn't ready.

[Bruce Ruffin]

Hard to watch when our ace gets lit up. There was a time, hell, damn near all of 2005 - 2009, when this team did not allow garbage time to happen. Charlie's always boasted that they played all 27 outs.

This is really painful. What's next?

[Scott]

I long for a day when having David Herndon on our roster is the biggest problem for us to complain about...

[Marc H]

This team will be under .500 by Sunday night.

[MG]

Herndon, Castro, etc. The reason the Phils lost tonight is because Halladay was lousy. He made too many mistake pitches that wound up going out of the park and labored all night long. This is one night where the Phils simply needed more out of Halladay and he came up empty. Sabathia wasn't great either but he was better than Halladay even if he had to face a less potent lineup that is clearly still struggling.

[Gsl]

NEPP: I knew someone would post the WHIP or BAA numbers. I appreciate you admitting they are skewed.

He has given up his share of base hits and it would be nice to see that improve. However the movement he generates misses keeps the ball off the sweet spot.

I'd take a guy who gives up his share of bleeder hits over a guy who gets a lot of outs on screaming liners.

I don't disagree with you that Mathieson would be ready. But if the Phils front office thinks so, is it really Herndon keeping him down. I understand you are frustrated and want to see Mathieson, but I am not sure it is fair to blame Herndon for that.

[holy mackerel]

BTW - you're right - re the perfecto

it started before hand --

halliday has one bad outing per month
sf apr26 7.0in 10 hits 5 er 1 hr
bos may23 4.2in 8 hits 6 er 1 hr
nyy jun16 6.0in 8 hits 6 er 3 hr

[GBrettfan]

True, MG.

And I just heard that the Phillies flipped the pitchers, so it will be Jamie tomorrow.

[Gsl]

"This is one night where the Phils simply needed more out of Halladay and he came up empty"

Yeah. Damn him for only being out of this world on all those nights they simply didn't need him...

[Bruce Ruffin]

One more thing. My campaign to "make an example out of someone" (benchings/DFAs) really appears pointless now. The worst punishment for any given player appears to be the riding out of this "streak", or whatever the bleep it is, all the way to the end.

I just hope that "end" is not sometime in mid-August.

[MG]

Why does everyone want Mathieson up so badly? So he can sit in the bullpen for days on end without being used. You know Cholly will let him rot in the pen if he has any say it.

Herndon has been adequate enough for a mop-up guy who can give them multiple innings if needed. Rather have Mathieson down at Lehigh pitching a few times a week to stay sharp for when the inevitable bullpen injury comes.

The real issue in the pen has been Bastardo who continues to let Cholly down when he needs him. Tonight it was a 6-3 game and still within striking distance even with as anemic as this offense as been. Bastardo game in & the game was over.

Not one appearance since he has come back up with the team where he has pitched well in a close game.

[MG]

Gsl - Halladay is going to have a handful of lousy starts this year (at least 5-6 G). This was a game though where the Phils needed a lot more out of him & they simply didn't get it. 6 IP, 6 ER is lousy.

Now, there is a pretty good chance the Phils are going to get swept this series. Halladay has been everything the Phils thought he would be this season. He wasn't tonight though when they really needed him to be.

[Bruce Ruffin]

MG -- You know Cholly will let him [Mathieson] rot in the pen if he has any say it. Too, too true.

[denny b.]

I agree with you MG. We all know Cholly would never use Mathieson, unless it was garbage time.

I think he has more then earned a promotion, but there simply isn't a spot available. Not yet.

And if Happ comes back soon, it will be Bastardo that goes down. The question then becomes, if Kendrick or Blanton is the one that goes to the pen. I'd say its not as cut-and-dry as some would think. Country Joe better show something soon, or he will be the odd man out.

[JBird]

The bench and last couple bullpen spots are really being exposed by this slump. I understand it's primarily the middle of the lineup that's been the catalyst for this malaise, but how different would the game today have been if the Phillies had paid an extra million for a quality infield backup (Carrol)? A possible 3 or 4 run swing just tonight.

[bake]

Another nice, depressing Phillies game. WTH.

So Ruiz really just has to bat 9th because he's the catcher, right? Because he's a better hitter than many of the guys who were batting before, him.

[MSH]

Can it get any worse??? Yes it can

[Gsl]

MG- I am not disputing that he did not come through with a great performance. However, I don't really think it was a bigger game than any other where he pitched great.

The game counts no more or less because it was the Yankees.

[Gsl]

"He's a better hitter than many of the guys batting before him"

Really? I love Chooch to death but I can't see him being a better hitter than more than 1 guy ahead of him, much less many.

[aksmith]

First - Bastardo was not victimized by the Yanks. He was victimized by that lackluster second baseman who has taken over Utley's body.

Second - I'm off to Hawaii for a week in the stormy, windy, rainy sunshine. I won't watch a minute of Phillies baseball or give a shyte about it during that time. In years past I would have checked in on the games. But after seeing the lackluster losers this formerly solid team has turned into, I simply can't care any more than they do.

I never thought I'd see this group of players give up so easily night after night. But there it is. Very sad. And I know Rube's head will never roll in this organization, but he's the one who gave up the number two starter for prospects. And he's the one who has larded up the bench with drech for two years now. And he's the one who consistently adds years to contracts that make no sense. So, Hawaii, you can't come fast enough.

[Mister Met]

Hmmm, I have a question that Phailly fans should know the answer to:

Isn't it harder to hit MLB pitching when you aren't cheating and don't know what pitch is coming?

BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Hmmm, all of a sudden the Phails are a tainted champ looking like an aging team which will be in last place within a year.

Maybe we can strip the Phails of their playoff appearances the last three years the way the NCAA takes wins away from teams who CHEAT because they cannot COMPETE.

Enjoy your last few days above .500. And enjoy looking at the Mets above you for the next decade cheaters.

[mwbbfan]

Castro cannot hit,run or field nor does he appear to bring any energy.
Cut him now!

[curt]

The box score says we lost to the Yanks because Doc got lit up early and often, while all the Phils could manage was 5 singles.

Yapping about Juan Castro, David Herndon, Scott Mathieson's absence, etc, is beside the point.

As Cliff Lee might say, karma is a bitch. And believe it or not wiki's definition of "bad karma" is simply "The Philadelphia Phillies."

[Mackey Sasser's Protective Cup]

I wuv the Mets! We get 20,000 folks to come out to our games and we are destined to finish 81-81 at best in 2010. And we are 2nd class citizens in our own city and ALWAYS will be.

And no matter how many times we try to get folks to forget, we monumentally CHOKED in 2007, faded like a Ernie Els 3 iron in 2008 and folded up like a cheap suit in 2009, long before they could pee their pants in September.

Everybody Clap Yo Hands!!!

[Meyer]

Galvis would have made that play and his bat is getting hot.

[Old Phan]

This one was on the pitching, esp. Doc. It happens.

[Two away from .500]

Hey Mackey...2nd class in our own city? I'd rather be second class in the greatest city in the world than 1st in a dump like Philly.

20,000 fans a game? what a shocker, a Philly fan who can't add. Unreal, who would've thunk it?

Its 2010 Mackey, not 2007..you can talk about the past as much as you want but it doesn't mean anything in 2010. You want me to talk about 1986 or how about 1968? This is a different team than the soft Mets of 3 years ago. I know you don't want to hear it, but sorry my friend, things just aren't the same. So get on that short bus that's waiting outside the Bronx for you and crawl back to that hole you live in...otherwise known as Philadelphia. Enjoy .500, its coming soon. HAHAHAHAHA

[limoguy]

Tomorrow night's game is on Comcast, which I do not have.

Therefore, I will not feel tomorrow night like I do tonight, which is that I wasted several good and irreplaceable hours of my life sitting on my duff and watching the Phillies on tv.

[Iceman]

The comments on this site hit a new rock bottom every time someone addresses any Mets fan, ensuring another comment from said fan. Seriously, it's June. This happens every year. Just ignore them and they'll be gone by September.

[The Truth Injection]

Now the slump is karma??

Mind-boggling in it's silliness.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

Alright, I'm back and this looks like the same sh!t I saw before I left. aksmith, good luck with your plan. Didn't work for me.

[Old Phan]

All NL East teams lose except for the Muts. Not too bad.

[MG]

Gsl - Halladay stunk tonight. If this was Blanton or Moyer, people on here would have ripped him left and right. Especially for allowing the 3 HR and giving up the additional run right after they made it 5-3.

It does matter a more not because of the Yanks but because there is a strong possibility this team gets swept now. Phils had to find a way to win at least 1 game in NY. I have my doubts they can do that now just because they won't be able to score enough (5-6 runs) to take a game with Moyer/KK on the mound.

[Iceman]

Am I the only guy on here that thinks when's Rollins is back, it will be a BIG, BIG help? I guess it's easy to call it 'minimal' when it is just a short stint without the player. Rollins has barely been in the lineup this year the whole year, and his second injury occurred right before the Dice-K game that started it all.

No, he's not gonna save the day. But he absolutely will help both offensively and defensively. That's step one. Step 2: start hitting home runs again. Step 3: Send me a beer stipend, Rube, because I am running low on my beer budget trying to drink away this futility streak.

[Gsl]

Mg- my post never said he pitched well. So you countering my point with he stunk is irrelevant. Putting a must win on a guy this early in the season is silly. Also no one can be great every game you want them to just because you have attatched some meaning to it. He had a rough outing. What do you want from the guy. On demand performance doesn't happen in real life.

[Gsl]

Shorter version: Complaining because Halladay didn't give the Phils exactly what they needed in one game is shortsighted. He has given them what they need all season. Not everyone can be perfect every game, not even Roy Halladay.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Curt is a one hit wonder(Lee), like the Phils offense.

[EastFallowfield]

Comparing and contrasting the two NY stadiums after 1st trip to the AL one last night...

More Yankee fans at their park. Maybe because the Mets tickets were giveaways in the section I sat in, not many Met fans in that area. And more people seemed to stay in their seats and watch the game at the Yanks' place.

Mets fans within earshot cared about the Yankees score. No Yankee fans cared anything about the Mets score, just the Rays and Red Sox.

At Yankees, fans are loud and PA is at reasonable volume. At Mets, PA is very loud, fans not so much.

Both stadiums have trouble filling in the highest priced seats, but way less empty areas at Yankees. At Mets game, in lower deck infield seats, no problem moving for a better view. At Yanks, no chance in the second deck to do so.

[Marc H]

In order to prepare for what will happen in these next 2 games in NY, watch the 1st 2 games of the Red Sox series. Last year, the back end of the rotation was Happ/Pedro. Moyer and Kendrick are a HUGE step down.

[Jbird]

Two thoughts, I wonder how Pedro's coming along back in the DR and I wonder if Cliff Lee can play shortstop.

[MG]

Gsl - You have notably complained about others on here including Moyer or KK when they have had poor outings this year. It is a complete double standard.

There is a difference between expecting 'perfection' or giving your team a chance to win. Halladay didn't do that last night. If he had gone 6 and 3, that would have been fine. Halladay didn't. He was the main reason they lost.

Yes, it also does matter a bit more because of circumstances. I bet they get swept this series as a result.

[GBrettfan]

I have to agree with MG that Halladay did not give them a chance to win last night. It's unfortunate that he had a bad game last night, in what, on paper, was the one game of the series we had a chance to win. We've had a lot of bad fortune the past month. But then, isn't there a saying about making your own luck? And there is the saying about games not being played on paper. The little optimist in me is saying maybe KK pitches a gem and the Phils win tonight. The pessismist in me says not to even bother tuning in the game the next two nights.

[EastFallowfield]

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