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Tuesday, June 22, 2010

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"according to CSNPhilly's Salsiury".... and it begins.

While I agree with the move 100% I'm not going to be among those who are cheering right now. Dobbs had a great '07 and '08 and helped give Philadelphia something special. I hope his career continues and that it is a successful one.

So, Rollins, Zagurski and Sardina up, Ruiz DL, Mathieson in AAA and Dobbs DFA?

Wow.

WOW, I mean WOW!!!

Good.

Big wow. Beerleaguer commenters all over this in recent days.

and Beerleaguer hasn't exploded yet?

I'm not going to call this "good" or "bad" because I think it remains to be seen how all the moves play out, and I think Dobbs wasn't necessarily going to remain as bad as he was, but I can't say I'm surprised.

It is funny, though, the few posters on here who ridiculed the very idea of it.

Should have been done weeks ago. The Phillies take to long with things like this. Now I'm not blaming this slump on Dobbs because god knows everyone has been down recently. However, there were 5 or 6 situations where Dobbs came up as our first move off the bench the last three weeks in a big spot and just made weak out after weak out.

from prior thread
RAJ nearly got all right.

DFA Dobbs - check

Activate Rollins – double check

DL Ruiz - triple check (better he should rest, heal up, and not occupy a space on the roster)


Only question –

I understand they needed a spot to bring up a catcher from LV, so Mathieson was DFA-ed [sort of --] once the rosier situation was resolved today, couldn't we bring up Mathieson right back up instead of Zagurski?

Does Zagurski give anybody here a feeling of confidence?

I did not see that coming.

It's sad to see Greg go, but he couldn't have done much more to play himself off of the team if it were his goal. Even more than that, however, I'm in utter shock the Phillies actually went w/ the option (DFA Dobbs) I advocated. I expect Allen Funt to return from the dead & reveal it as a prank any moment now.

I really think the determining factor was that Castro can actually play 3B respectfully. If dobbs wasn't such a butcher at the corner, he might have saved his life even after his performance at the plate.

Also, I guess since Gload overcame the incredibly overwhelming defecit in career HR/AB to go on and out homer Dobbs so far this year really made this move possible.

I'll bet Dobbs clears waivers and gets stashed in LV.

Caveat: The Yankees may claim him beacuse their bench ain't much better.


Would it be ironic if Dobbs winds up in the Bronx and hits a World Series winning HR off the Phils?

Could happen.

Holy: Zagurski has been pitching really well in LHV, but no, not really. He's going to fill the Bastardo spot of 2nd lefty, rarely used in key spots. Apparently they felt that was more important than having another mop-up righty in Mathieson.

Or, given that I don't know the procedural rules, they simply weren't able to recall Mathieson right now (there could be time limits on when a guy on optional waivers can be recalled or something).

Thanks Jack - appreciate the info...

Shoulda DFA'ed Lidge

does rollins make the lineup tonight? my ticket might not be as worthless as i suspected.

"However, there were 5 or 6 situations where Dobbs came up as our first move off the bench the last three weeks in a big spot and just made weak out after weak out."

Not sure that Dane Sahrdina woudl have given you much better ABs, so i cant really follow that DFA'in Dobbs sooner would have led to any change in those situations.

"Would it be ironic if Dobbs winds up in the Bronx and hits a World Series winning HR off the Phils?

Could happen.

Posted by: awh | Tuesday, June 22, 2010 at 03:16 PM "

awh-
All of that Optimism is killing me


:)

No real surprises here at all unless you consider Zagurski and he is only up on the roster because of the Bastardo injury/almost complete lack of decent lefty relievers in the minor league system.

I'd give Dobbs at least a 50/50 chance of getting picked up, & if he does I hope it's somewhere he gets to play at least semi-regularly.

RE: The '93 Phillies

It's heartening to read some positive player/fan interaction stories. I've never met any of those guys, but knowing they're not all jerks is gratifying.

JW must be getting paid by the thread now. Glad to see that my $13.60/month is going to a good cause.

holy mack', I'm glad you saw the humor in my post.

Re: Kruk being a jerk...I wonder if he's any different now? I mean, he seemed like he was a bit of a jerk as a player, but now (and granted, I just see him on the TV/radio) he does seem a bit more down to earth and less full of himself now.

Wouldn't be the first time a guy gained a little humility and wisdom as he got older.

Then again, maybe I'm just trying to be too nice/optimistic.

Here’s a trade alterative-

Maybe we could have packaged Dobbs + Ibanez + Aumont, Ramirez and Gilles TO Seattle for Lee

(Former Mariners traded for a former Phillie)

What ya think?

[Tongue firmly planted in cheek]


Anyone have any thoughts on Ruiz? God knows you don't want to mess around with anything like that, so best of luck, Chooch, feel better soon.

I am kind of surprised about this since I thought I remember hearing Charlie on Sunday say he thought Ruiz would be back perhaps mid-this week or so.

"Would it be ironic if Dobbs winds up in the Bronx and hits a World Series winning HR off the Phils?"

Very ironic, considering BP.com says its impossible for the phils to make the playoffs.

How about a very unPhillies like substantial load of cash and middling prospects for Lee?

Zolecki (via Twitter): "Rollins back in the lineup."

:-)

Zolecki (via Twitter): "Tonight's Lineup vs. CLE: Rollins SS, Polanco 3B, Utley 2B, Howard 1B, Werth RF, Ibañez LF, Victorino CF, Schneider C, Moyer P."

Here's the lineup Zolecki tweeted:

Rollins SS, Polanco 3B, Utley 2B, Howard 1B, Werth RF, Ibanez LF, Victorino CF, Schneider C, Moyer P

Sorry for posting the lineup a minute late.

Cliff Lee.

If we can't win against the freakin' Indians with that lineup, our season deserves to be over.

EF: Ain't no thang.

Bobby Abreu

The lineup looks so much better with Rollins in it. I hope he's close to 100%. If he is, the bottom of the order looks much, much better.

The winning streak begins tonight!

getting rid of Dobb's is great, when is Castro going? He can't be a serious late inning pinch hitting threat. Great time to promote either Ransom or Mayberry

I'll be shocked if someone picks up Dobbs. A no-hit defensive liability who can only handle 3B and 1B? Dont see a ton of demand there.

It's great and everything, but the bench is still Valdez, Castro, Gload, Sardinha and Francisco. Scare anyone?

Our bench:

SS Wilson Valdez
SS Juan Castro
UT Ross Gload
C Dane Sardinha
OF Ben Francisco


Is that the worst bench in the Majors? If not, who beats us? Its gotta be in the bottom 3rd.

Looks like JW beat me to the punch.

Our bench scares me personally.

dick-allen15: Castro's not going anywhere. No other apparent backup for Old Man Polanco at 3B.

Now that the Dobbs issue is settled I believe Beerleaguers should focus their powerful collective energy on getting the Phillies to unburden themselves of Danys Baez ...

NEPP - I would agree. Like I said a few weeks ago, if Dobbs wasn't a key part of the 2008 Phils, he'd probably be a AAAA player in another organization. That team built up so much goodwill that we suffered through 1.5 seasons of a very, very replaceable player.

I wanna know when Cliff Lee makes the Wall in CBP.

So once the 25 man roster is back to order, who takes the spot on the bench? Tracy?

I'm assuming castro or valdez get the boot.

Interesting that last time Rollins came off the DL, he was inserted elsewhere in the lineup; this time, he's back to lead-off. But then, I believe the last time he came off the DL, Victorino was really hitting pretty well and the team was scoring some runs. This time, Charlie probably wants his "spark plug" starting things off.

I would think it will take him a while to get back in the "swing" of things, so to speak. But I thought so last time, and he got some hits in - what was it, all of 4 games?

Can Valdez not play 3B?

How bad do you have to feel if you're Greg Dobbs?

I mean, they kept JUAN FREAKING CASTRO over you...that's gotta sting. Maybe he'll go to Lehigh and remember how to hit and be back up in a few months to help the team.

Calling it now: Leadoff HR for Jimmy tonight...followed by a 28-2 run to put us comfortably back in front in the NL East.

Game On!

Jbird: Perhaps, but if you're the Phillies can you really assume Rollins will make it through the rest of the year w/out missing any games?

NEPP: Without looking, it's the worst.

It makes sense to hold on to two backup IFs temporarily in case Rollins hasn't recovered. These things can be tricky. Make that VERY temporarily.

Edmundo - Yeah, definitely why they kept Castro. I doubt it's an endorsement or any kind of indication that he'll stick around beyond the next week or so. Just like EVERYONE BUT PHILLIES MANAGEMENT seemed to predict, he has no bat and a mediocre glove.

GTown: I mean as a bench option that can fill in for a day until you can recall Dobbs or someone else from the minors or waiver wires or wherever. If Polanco & Rollins go down at the same time, I'm not sure having Castro available on the bench is going to save the season. And you surely aren't going to pinch hit with him. So he becomes as useless as a 3rd catcher eating up a valuable bench spot. DFA Castro and try to carry someone who can pinch hit at the very least.

Word Association and the Phils' current bench the next 2 weeks at least:

Impotent. Limited.

BTY - Please, please JRoll stay healthy. I am really tired of watching the worst SS combo in the NL in Valdez/Castro.

I am surprised that Castro has made it this long. I thought his performance last year in a Dodgers' uniform was an oasis in a series of underwhelming performances the last 4 or 5 years ago. If I recall correctly, I thought he was going to get DFA/retire by Memorial Day in my preseason predictions ala Alex Gonzalez back in '06.

GTown: With that 2nd year attached to his contract, you can bet Baez is going nowhere.

At least we have him penciled in for the pen next year. Very important. Great work by Rube.

There isn't a single attribute on the bench that stands out. Average - Nein. Power - Nope. Speed - Nada. Defense - Nyet.

Phils have had the worst PH stats in MLB by a wide margin and it will continue at least until the ASB with this crew.

MG: But we signed Gload because he was such a good pinch-hitter last year. And we signed Dobbs for 2 years because of how good a pinch-hitter he was in 2008.

How can they be struggling? It couldn't possibly be because pinch-hitting stats are a terrible way to judge a player, could it?

If only our bench guys could get some more playing time to sharpen their skills...

I feel like Mayberry could at least give you power, speed, and defense off the bench. And really, would he be worse at 3B than Dobbs has been?

Everyone has been calling for them to cut Baez but who exactly at Lehigh replaces him?

Dobbs earned his demotion. He was the worst PH in baseball by a wide margin, didn't seize the few opportunities that Cholly gave him to start the last few weeks, and has been horrible the past 1 1/2 with a brief stint last year where he started/hit.

He might get picked up by another team that is looking for a lefty bat but my bet is that he is done at the MLB level.

Baez will be acceptable (if you ignore his contract) when Madson gets back. We'll have Madson, Contreras, Romero and Lidge for the late innings. Not exactly a shutdown foursome, but better than deer-in-headlights Baez. He can pitch the sixth or the mop-up innings, like an expensive Tyler Walker. He's good at that.

I wonder what Jermaine Dye would want to platoon in LF with Raul and get some PH ABs the rest of the way?

On a low enough $$ amount, it might be worth a look. A lot easier than trading for such a piece.

we all know we're losing this series, c'mon ppl.

2009: lost to Orioles
2008: lost to A's
2007: lost to Royals
2006: lost to Rays
2005: lost to Mariners
2004: lost to Tigers

all those teams were the worst or very close to worst in the entire AL that respective year.

MG, I like the way you worked all the different languages into your comment about our bench. But defense has been pretty good from Valdez, so I beg to differ on that one little point.

Jack - That is not entirely true about why they resigned Dobbs. He started alot in '07 and even in '08 he started a bit to spell Feliz vs. RHP.

Maybe Dobbs isn't done at the MLB-level but what team in their right mind would start him enough to find out?

I would be surprised if he gets picked up by any MLB team given his real struggles. He likely will have to take a T-AAA assignment, really hit well, and get a Sept. 1st callup with some team to make it back to the MLB at this point.

GBrettfan - Is Valdez a defensive upgrade from JRoll/Utley/Polanco? I would say 'no' although he has been adequate this year defensively.

The Phillies can probably lay claim to having the worst bench in MLB since Opening Day '09, & if not, then definitely since Opening Day '10 ... What, everyone is just now noticing? Showing Dobbs the door may not have improved the situation, but it's certainly no worse.

Jbird: I see what you're getting at, but who do the Phillies have available? Mayberry, I guess, but he was injured recently, too ... not to mention being a less than scintillating player at any level. Aside from Dom Brown (a move I'd probably make but the Phils almost certainly won't), there aren't any obvious alternatives. The bench stinks & the farm is practically deserted. It is what it is. *shrugs*

Jack: Hey (Hey) You (You), Get Off Of My Cloud. ;-)

You could bring up Ranson, he would either hit a HR or strike out.

I am a bit sad for Dobbs, as he was a big contributor in '08. If he ends up on another team I will root for him wherever he plays.

But he got more than enough rope. WAY more than enough. He's brought nothing to the table for over a year now. I've been bitching about bringing in the hearse for him for months. My buddies that I watch most of the games with roll their eyes every time I complain about him...an apt analogy would be Iceman : Greg Dobbs :: BL commenters : Cliff Lee trade.

I'm a huge Greg Dobbs fan. And i've listened to people critique him all year. I knew something like this would eventually happen. I'd really like to see him at Lehigh and try to work his issues out and then maybe rejoin the team later in the year.

It doesn't get brought up much but the Phils really have had weak benches since '07. It has just bottomed out the last 2 years with some real dregs. Several reasons why including a lack of placing any real emphasis on it from a budge perspective, the almost complete lack of positional prospects in the minor league system, and some real boners by the FO (Taschner-Paulino trade).

Scratch that 'budget' perspective. They did spend some real bucks this offseason on the likes of Castro, Gload, and Schneider. I would be curious to see how the Phils' bench players salaries at the start of the season stacked up with other teams.

G-Town: you are slaying me today with the negativity. Where have you been lately? I realized how much you and BAP mean to my overall enjoyment of this comment section with your respective absences. While I may disagree with the glass half-empty approach, at least you guys are funny about it most of the time. The morons showing up over the past week or two talking about DFAing Moyer, selling the farm because the season is over and not commenting until Cholly is fired = not funny. Glad to have you back.

If only we kept Cliff Lee our bench would be much stronger!

Looking at NL pinch-hitting numbers, there's no rhyme or reason to it at all ( I didn't bother with AL because the sample would be so small). The top two teams in PH OPS (San Fran and Cincinnati) are both good teams, as are the bottom three (San Diego, Dodgers, Phillies). It looks to be essentially a total random distribution.

What I can't find, is team hitting overall by bench players (including games they start). This would take some serious subjective structuring, as on most teams there are some spots where, due to injuries and platoons, it's tough to tell who is really a "bench" player.

MG: Agree on Baez.

Iceman: I try. Sometimes life rather rudely intrudes upon my Beerleaguer time is all. It would have been infinitely amusing to have been privy to one of your Dobbs tirades, by the way, what w/ having become so used to your positivity glass spilling over. Without differing points of view this blog wouldn't be nearly as fun. Speaking of which, where is b_a_p, anyway?

"GBrettfan - Is Valdez a defensive upgrade from JRoll/Utley/Polanco?"

i dont think thats a very good way to measure your bench strength. I think the D that valdez and schnieder have provided have been positives, while Francisco "can" but just hasn't.

I don't see why, other than money/contract reasons, Mathieson couldn't replace Baez in the bullpen. I don't have very much confidence in either, frankly, but I think there's at least a chance Mathieson could pleasantly surprise, because he's got a better chance of being a power K pitcher (which are usually the guys who pleasantly surprise out of the bullpen).

We know that Baez is not close to that guy anymore.

BAP is in a foreign country or something crazy.

Cipper: Seriously? I'd love to be on a plane w/ him. "This flight feels like a crash ..."

:-)

MG: You need to adjust your opinion on what a bench player is. that is the problem here. A guy on the bench is usually not going to be as good defensively as the guy he is replacing. It's one of the many reasons he is a bench player.

Valdez is not Rollins defensively, but then neither are most starters on other teams.

Also, Francisco has some power off the bench. He hit 15 home runs in both 2008 and 2009. He can also run the bases a little bit.

However, again- bench players, and furthermore, good bench players are hard to find. MLB Network's Quick Pitch had a piece this morning with Ken Rosenthal discussing how poor the Yankees bench is too.

I really think the best step from this point would be to try and pry Wiggy from the Orioles and eat Castro's contract. That would make the bench even better, albeit- right handed heavy

NEPP: Dye would be a good move, he'd make a good DH if we were to make it to the WS.

TTI - A right handed bench isn't the worst thing. The starting lineup is lefty heavy and most RH hitters in MLB can hit RH pitching, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten this far. I do think Wiggington would be pricey though as the O's don't need to trade him unless they get at least 1 piece that adds to their rebuilding effort.

Also, the meme down in O's country is that all the losing is negatively impacting their young core (Markakis, Jones, Weiters, Matusz) so they aren't likely to make their mlb team weaker unnecessarily.

Jbird: Are the O's in the market for a Canadien français RH pitching prospect? If so, have I got a deal for them ...

Gtown: I don't know, they might want a deaf slap hitter with park inflated numbers and talented but far away pitcher with middling numbers thrown in.

Jbird: Excellent point ... & one wouldn't want to risk depriving the farm system of such gems at any rate.

Thanks, thephaithful and TTI, for making the point i was about to make to MG. If you're comparing the bench to our starting infielders, I don't know why you'd expect an upgrade. They must be evaluated on whether they can be counted on for generally solid but not spectacular defense, as opposed to being liabilities in the field.

Bench players are just that for a reason. If they could hit and field like the starters, they would be starters themselves.

I wish Dobbs all the best, but this move was long overdue.

Baez should be next...I don't care what his contract looks like, he doesn't belong in a ML bullpen right now.

lol at "this flight feels like a crash"

GTown: bap said he was going to Indonesia for 2-1/2 weeks. I think he's looking for Obama's birth certificate.

The Jays could pick up Dobbs to DH this weekend, and show them where to pick up the signs.

Maybe it was posted. Maybe it wasn't. I'll never know, but here's a breakdown of Moyer's HR allowed as he goes for the record.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/cliff_corcoran/06/22/jamie.moyer.home.runs/index.html

Now, I done don't know much all about them fancy maths and metrics uhuhuh or how homerun totals typically breakdown, but it's telling that he has given up more solo homers than all other types combined and by a wide margin. If this is typical let me know because I know you all can spew that information off the top of your heads with out using that thar google.

I'm personally excited about this because if you recall the last time the phillies reach a dubious milestone it served as a turning point for the franchise. Who knows what new heights this will propell the team to.

Also, I still think Gillies and Ramirez show a ton of promise. Aumont does too but he needs to fix his control or he will amount to nothing

Is anyone else concerned that Charlie will forget that the Blue Jays series an American League Series and not put a DH in the official lineup card and fail to realize it until it is already exchanged at the plate? I can see this happening.

TTI: Right. A few threads ago made it sound like the Phillies only got Aumont in return for Lee.

Greg,

Get your swing healthy and get back here. Your a great team player and true professional. Enjoyed watching you play. Thanks for the memories WFC.

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