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Friday, June 25, 2010


I had a really big rant here because I'm cranky this morning but I thought this snippet best exemplified my feelings.

Reading the Cliff Lee debates on here is like watching "Loose Change." (For those of you who don't know that's an indie documentary made by some college kids about how the government planned 9/11 and blah blah blah it goes on. Suffice to say it is completely drivel and conjecture and in 95% of places flat out wrong.)

3 4 5 alive?
We all knew it all along.
Us doubt? Ever? Naaaaaahhhhh....

I found Loose Change to be somewhat interesting. However, the Cliff Lee debates on here make me want to jump out of a window. If Lee gets traded to the Mets, I won't be reading the BLer comment section.

Loose change was somewhat interesting ONLY (how i wish I could make those caps bigger) in the fact that it was a pretty polished documentary for having been made by a few college kids.

I was referring to the fact that debating the Cliff Lee trade is mostly fluff.

I hope the Mets do get Cliff Lee. They'll lose whatever type of farm they even have left(which is pretty much none) and still miss the playoffs anyway.

If they signed Lee as a free agent in 2011 i'd be much more concerned though.

If I give someone my cell number, can you call me and let me know when the Cliff Lee debate thread(s) are over?


R.Billingsly: Check back 2020. Maybe later depending how the season plays out.

Not to pile onto the Cliff Lee to the Mets discussion but I saw this today.

the Mets are willing to trade for Lee purely as a rental for the second half of the season. They would not demand a negotiating window to sign him to an extension.

The Mets would not include Mejia, Niese or Ike Davis to acquire Lee. They also will probably hold onto Pagan since they are unsure about Beltran's health. However, they would trade some package involving Ruben Tejada, Fernando Martinez, Wilmer Flores, Jeurys Familia, and Josh Thole.

I want to insure those worried about this a few things. Whatever they offer from that is not really better than what we got for Lee. Additionally, Tejada, Martinez, and Flores are their bet position prospects. If they give up two or three of them they are really yanking some of the little depth they have away from their system.

Also, while the Mariners want a catcher in any deal- Thole is not nearly as good as the catcher the Twins have in their system.

Crazy stat:

Team Games: 70
Ibanez Appearances: 69
Ibanez starts: 64

Ibanez has been an ironman so far. He's on pace for 148 starts and 160 appearances this year.

Iceman, I wanted to respond to one of your comments in your lucid post at the end of the last thread.

You are correct in that "IT'S A NEGOTIATION". However, if in fact Cliff and his agent would not come off of the long time period (at least 5 yrs - and more probably 7) of the contract and made that clear to Amaro, then if the FO determined through back channels they could sign Halladay to a deal that was acceptable, they subbed one for the other.

The fact that Lee and his agent have never addressed specifically the issue of the length of the contract leads me to believe that neither Rube nor the agent are really "lying". Simply, the Phils determined they weren't going to be able to re-sign Lee.

He "says" he was amenable to working out an extension, but nowhere have he or his agent EVER said they would take a 3 year deal, which is the max the Phils have said they are comfortable giving pitchers (just look at Blanton - with his track record of IP and never having been DL's I'll bet he ASKED for more than 3 yrs.).

And if you're Cliff Lee, why would you take 3 yrs when you have a fairly good idea that 5 -7 are available if you go the FA route?

Simply, Rube & Co. determined there was going to be no meeting of the minds on a contract - AND THEY'RE PROBABLY RIGHT ABOUT THAT.

Though all of what I wrote above may be true, they still didn't "have" to trade Lee, except that they couldn't fit him and Blanton in the budget.

Remember, part of the Halladay deal was some cash to the Phils.

That alone tells me that finances played, IMHO, the biggest part in the decision to move Lee.

In other notes relevant to our team:

- Bobby Valentine is apparently going to accept the Marlins managerial job. He is better than Fredi Gonzalez as a manager but he can be a fiery guy and it will be interesting to see how a relatively young team responds to that. Have to point out though he has never led a team to a first place finish.

- The Orioles are most likely going to designate Garrett Atkins for assignment. He has scuffled pretty much for the past year and a half. However, he is a right-handed bat who has shown some pop in the past. He could play third and first. Sliding him at third could give Polanco a day off, or allow Polanco to slide over to second and give Utley days off. The Orioles were apparently looking for a young shortstop if they were to trade Wiggy so I'd imagine the asking price for Atkins would be lower.

I doubt we'd get him (or if he's worth it) but I think after we had two fairly active trade deadline seasons this year expect maybe a bullpen piece and a bench guy.

"3, 4, 5 and 6,
Phils are starting to swing the stix."

Seriously, we all know what this team is capable of if they get hot at the same time. Hopefully, this will continue for a while, at leat as long as the collective slump did.

The last 10 games the Phils have scored 62 runs: 6.2 RPG.

The last 10 games the Phils are 7 - 3 (and should be 8 - 2).

That's what happens when the score like they have.

NL Loss Column:

SDP 30
ATL 31
NYM 31
PHL 32
STL 32
SFG 32
CIN 33
LAD 33

2-1/2 back in the standings, but only one in the loss column.

Atkins interest whatsoever in him. His last few "productive" seasons were a mirage of Coors Field.

Phillies are playing well ... Chase Utley, Ryan Howard and Jayson Werth striking ag Cl ain ... Lesser bats doin Cliff work ... Even the pitchi Cliff Le ng is holding u Cliff Lee p ... Team hitt Cliff Lee ing strid Cliff Lee e and seeming Cliff Lee ly out of Cliff Lee major slu Clfff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee

okay, was the Indians...and they're two games removed from back-to-back four-hit performances. color me unconvinced.

Although this slump has been miserable to watch, doesn't it seem that we usually slump during the first few weeks of the season (which we didnt this year) and around interleague play, only to heat up in the mid-late summer?

Looking back at '09, we were 37-32 through 69 games as well. This year, the division is slightly better.

I was unconvinced as well, until they hit Carmona... hes a good pitcher, and seeing them knock him around a bit made me feel MUCH better..

****okay, was the Indians...and they're two games removed from back-to-back four-hit performances. color me unconvinced****

Funny you should mention the know who used to be an Indian?

Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee

CESDC: Yes we've done this before. However, here on Beerleaguer many forget that fact.

Looking forward to this series. The Blue Jays are a team that can hit a little bit and have scored 342 runs this season even with Adam Lind and Aaron Hill not getting off the blocks yet. However, with Lind, Hill, Bautista, Wells, Overbay, Werth, Howard, Utley, Rollins, all playing this weekend on what are expected to be hot and humid days- this could be a shootout series.

I see what I've been missing here...gawd.

RSB - Color you unconvinced of what? That the Phils' slump is over, that Joe Blanton is better than his stat line to date?

The barometer for the Phillies will be their remaining games against the NL East. Basically, four average to slightly above average teams.

Amen Weitzel. They need to win games wherever they can but, the story of this season will be written in August to October when they play multiple series against the Mets, Braves and Fish.

The Cliff Lee talk is very old, at this point the only interesting thing I get out of the conversation is that more and more people are souring on the trade and the logic behind it.

It's time to move on...We could have had Lee, but he's no longer a Phil and there's really no point in dwelling on it unless it comes back to bite us in the ass if/when he ends up with an NL contender.

Don't know if its been mentioned, but Dom Brown was promoted to LV.

The Phillies have done what they needed to do after digging themselves something of a hole--started to climb out of it. 2.5 games out is a lot better than 5.5.

Next week, the Braves come to Philly and then play in New York. That's a big stretch of games.

Anyone know if Ricky Romero is slated to pitch for the Jays this weekend? He's a lefty with nasty stuff, which spells trouble for us. I believe he beat us twice last year, including a 10 K game or something.

J.C. Ramirez getting his second start for Reading tonight.

The collapsed game against the Twins sours what would be a good run for the Phils against some good AL talent (not the Indians, but the Yankees and the Twins).

The team leaders in OPS over the last 14 days is the heart of the order

Werth - 1.082
Howard - 1.038
Utley - .942
Ibanez - .890

Polanco's OPS isn't too high, but they're aren't really paying him for it. He's batting .341/.348 in that span.

Indians series aside (and it's hard to complain about a sweep, esp. without your 1-2 starters taking part, and with Carmona on the mound, who'd been red hot), they've been very good offensively lately.

Looks to me like J-Roll returns and we start Rollin'! It's his attitude this lineup has missed. Rollin', Rollin', keep the Phightins' rollin', rawhide!

Fortunately for us, R Romero just pitched Wednes. - 8 IP 0 runs

Cliff Lee - "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named"

Dom Brown being promoted is worthy of its own thread...

Good for him...right on track with a Sept callup/2011 MLB Debut.

Good news on Brown. He'd played about a full year at Reading, and put up a composite line something near .300/.370/.550. That's pretty good for a 21/22-year old, and he was only getting better as this year went on. His line at Reading for this year so far was .318/.391/.602 with 15 HRs and 12 SBs.

With this move, I would no longer be surprised to see him as a September call-up, if he hits at AAA anywhere close to what he hit at AA.

The Lee talk may be tiresome but, the prospect of him going to the Mets is a very live and troubling topic. FWIW, while his overall numbers are comic-book scary in 11 games, in relative terms, he's not particularly hard on lefties, for a lefty. His line against right-handers this year looks like he's been pitching in teh NL and facing lineups stacked with pitchers.

Bonehead: That's great news. I have no doubt he would have shut us down.

Jack: It's Litsch, and Marcum for sure. I think Cecil was initially listed as the starter for Sunday but now it's TBA. I doubt its Romero because he pitched on Wednesday so that would only be 3 days rest.

agreed on missing Ricky Romero.

"Polanco's OPS isn't too high, but they're aren't really paying him for it. He's batting .341/.348 in that span. "

Assuming he's paid to get on base, and/or move the runners over, and see a lot of pitches, he is doing a great job. There's nothing wrong with that, you need a few of those guys on the team, yes?

I love how Polanco has done so far.

(For those who may point out that I said the Polanco signing was arguably not a good one, I didn't mean that I didn't like Polanco, just that he probably could have been gotten for less $ than was laid out.)

yo, new thread.

Those who are unconvinced? Have fun with that.

"If the pistons are firing on all cylinders,"

The Pistons? Who cares about the Pistons? Basketball is over anyway.

(Uh, oh, what?)

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