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Wednesday, June 16, 2010

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Depressing...I cant even watch Halladay anymore...which was the lone bright spot on this dark time in Phillies recent history. I hate the Yankees stadium...its like a little league field...But then again, our team looks like a little league team out there. It probably just isn't their year. Werth will probably be traded in a month and we'll get more shitty prospects Rube thinks are great.

It's my fault. Roy and Kyle are meeting in the middle.

A few weeks ago I was hoping those that compared 2010 to 1979 were wrong.

Now I'm starting to hope they're right because that means next year won't be so bad.

A lot of pressure on the pitchers to pitch great games since the offense isn't coming through. That has to wear on the pitching staff ... I don't blame Halladay for this one.

Yeah, keep blaming the injuries......

3ROCk...agreed...halladay gave up one run his last time out and didn't win, either...this time it was up to the offense to bail him out and they scored 3 runs and 3 runs sounds like a lot for this team right now.

The Lee trade comes up over and over here and it's usually in regards to having both Lee and Halladay or having Lee over Blanton or the prospects Lee brought in the trade. However, I'm wondering if the Lee trade played a bigger part mentally...

Getting humbled by the Yankees, Red Sox, Braves and Mets over a 25-game nosedive will do that to a guy. Thanks, Jason. I'm glad you said it. The truth hurts. No amount of Sabermetric microanalysis or blind allegiance to fading stars will make that statement hurt less.

Short of a miraculous turnaround by the 3-4-5 hitters; a huge improvement by Blanton and a monster second half by Happ, it is difficult to understand how the Phillies might return to elite status. Will they be buyers or sellers at the trade deadline?

Happ will be the biggest midseason acquisition for the Phillies since Brett Myers in 2008... oh and that Lee guy in 2009.

Remember when people said the Phillies had an American League lineup? I really can't believe how bad they are right now. I still think they'll pull out of it. They really do have the best team in the division hands down. They just need to get their heads out of their posteriors.

I think we should just DFA all the position players and promote the whole BlueClaw lineup to the majors. Hewitt can't be any worse than Ibanez right now.

After listening to Rube I am convinced that the Phillies are going to make a big move. The Old Oppo Rubo speech analysis.

Would have been swept by the Giants, too, if Bochy hadn't lifted the Freak.

It's never as bad as it looks. Injuries + slumps + their annual June bed wetting = a slump of epic proportions. Hang in there Beerleaguers. It's easy to be a fan when they're playing .600 ball, you just gotta ride this one out.

Every once in awhile, a good team has a year where nothing goes right. The 1979 Phillies made a big off-season acquisition (Rose), had won 3 straight Division Titles and looked unbeatable on paper. What happened?? Trillo and 3 members of the starting rotation went on the DL, McGraw had a horrible year, the entire team struggled and Danny Ozark was fired. The next year---with the same team essentially---they won the WS

There are a lot of parallels between this team and that team (Big off-season acquisition, 3 straight titles, looking unbeatable on paper, major in-season injuries to key components).

Maybe 2010 is just that kind of year

I've not heard or read anything that suggests Happ is close to returning in any role, much less stepping back into the rotation at mid-season. Numerous opportunities to erase the 5 run lead that Halladay surrendered last night but, not a single big hit. Just some singles. In isolation, you shrug this game off. In context, this drought is past the point of unbearable. I can't imagine how Weitzel musters the energy to even post a summary of it.

Great point Dukes about the mental effect of the Lee trade. I remember reading some commentary about Werth and Rollins talking about how they were shocked they traded Lee after getting Halladay and how it made no sense to them. You have to wonder if the players feel the Front Office doesn't care about going all out to win a WFC and if that feeling translates to them giving up when down 3 runs. As a fan I feel like the FO has done a lot to be winners (high and rising payroll, keeping the core around, etc) but when push came to shove this offseason they got pushed away from the extra cash and lack of prospect depth.

Where's the power????

If i was one of those people who thought this team is doomed to not make the playoffs....

Shouldn't I be happy we dealt Lee? If we are going to score sub3 runs a game for the rest of the season, we wouldnt make the playoffs with or without an extra starting pitcher, and then he'd be gone next year anyway.

But I am not one of those people who thnk we will score sub3 runs a game for the rest of the season and don't think that because it happened it 1979, it makes it more/less likely that it'll happen again in 2010.

So I don't really give a damn about Lee right now. This team has no one to blame but themselves if they can't get into October, not the GM, injuries, or whoever got traded away. If the Phils get bounced in a series because Blanton/Happ get shelled, then I'll start blaming Amaro but until then it holds no merit.

"A few weeks ago I was hoping those that compared 2010 to 1979 were wrong.

Now I'm starting to hope they're right because that means next year won't be so bad."

I see a lot of 1979 in 2010, but there's a long way to go. If they don't regroup around Rollins, then it will serve, as you suggest, as motivation to come back strong next year.

If this is like 1979, then maybe Dallas Green will get another tour of duty!

Amaro said before last night's game, no moves will be made... that they are solid professionals and will improve (paraphrasing)- don’t what he said after the game,

Manuel looks like a lost puppy.

Apparently Dobbs is sticking around; so is Castro- which sounds like a money thing.

I could not watch the anymore game after Ruiz grounded out & they could not score in the following inning either

Halladay was lit up last night, as well as vs. Boston about 3 weeks ago – it just 2 starts but I would think the Phillies pitchers (starters) are pitching under pressure to be perfect because the offense can't hit its way out of a shopping bag

So since the best pieces of our ML league ready farm sys now reside in Oakland, Toronto, and Cleveland, Amaro may not have the ammo to make a significant move using the remaining AA level pieces.

Reading has Dom Brown and a few other flickers of hope. DB is probably untouchable. But after him, do we have or can we really afford to trade away any remaining quality pieces at the AA level?

I guess we won't make any more moves because it appears a lot of our future Utleys-Rollins-Hamels-etc- currently reside in the A level of our farm system.

Apparently Rube does not want to touch them. Actually (at the current moment) I think that is a smart move

So, it appears that there is not the stomach to gut out the rest of the farm system in an effort to win now. If that is Amaro’s reasoning, then I agree with it..

But also, if that’s the case, & if things do not turn around on the ML level, we may have to rely on our memories (and DVD’s) to enjoy the 2007-2009 years. We’ll have to wait a few years to see a winning club again

I hope I am wrong, about their 2010 demise, but right now, but it appears to be a run- away train going in the wrong direction


Let's think about next year and have some fun the rest of the year. Teach Freddy Galvis how to do cartwheels and backflips as he fills in for Rollins the rest of the year. Get Pedro back in the dugout. Please have Binoccular Giveaway Day.

My memories of '79 have dimmed. I do remember the feeling that Rose would push them past the Dodgers and into the World Series. I remember that Rose did his part, too. I don't remember if there was a stretch like this one that knocked them out of first that year but, the point where I lost hope is still vivid - they got swept in a 5 game series against Pittsburgh in August and, then a week later, got swept by Pittsburgh in 4. I hate to think that there's even bigger disappointment ahead in this season.

Cholly keeps running Castro out there,WHY? Either he or Rube need to get the balls to cut him loose.
Mathieson up, take your pick Bastardo,Herdon,Baez... Give the guy a chance.

"I hate the Yankees stadium...its like a little league field..."

So is the Bank, ask Howard. We've been loving those opposite field HR's to RF that would have been warning track outs in 25 other stadiums, at least.

I dont think Baez is an option, hes making around 2.5M this year, and I would think he's owed a similar amount next year too.

Cipper: Yes, Baez, like everyone else (except Contreras) was rewarded this offseason by Rube with a multi-year deal. I hope everyone likes what Castro, Gload, Scheider and Baez have done--cause they'll be here next year too!

I've been advocating hanging on to Herndon, but at this point, I think it's time to cut bait. Mathieson has earned a shot, and even if you don't wanna bring him up, someone has to hit the road when Madson gets healthy. Bastardo has not been impressive, either, but he's a lefty, which makes him simply more valuable than Herndon.

this is from rotoworld

Phillies agreed to terms with IF-OF Juan Castro on a one-year contract.


dtd 12/4/09


http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_previousnews.aspx?sport=mlb&id=2151


Two guys Cholly never wanted to see on the mound vs. NY in the WS are starting our next 2 games. Can't blame the guy for being depressed.

I apologize. Castro does have a 1-year deal, with a club option for next year. Gload, Schneider and Baez all have 2-year deals.

GLOAD

phillies signed IF-OF Ross Gload to a two-year, $2.6 million contract.
Gload, who turns 34 in April, batted .261/.329/.400 in 230 at-bats with the Marlins in '09, but general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. added him with a pinch-hitting role in mind. The left-handed hitting Gload led the National League with 21 pinch hits last season. He should provide a fine late-inning boost to Philadelphia's bench.

Since the MLB team is so depressing, anyone wanna talk prospects?

Dom Brown had another HR last night. Brody Colvin had a good start for Lakewood. May had a typical start for him at Clearwater--lots of Ks and BBs. Gose went 1-3 with a BB.

Posted by: Jack | Wednesday, June 16, 2010 at 10:26 AM


No apology needed - Since we are stuck w/ Gload, Brian S & Danys for 2 yrs, I didn't want any jumping off the WW Bridge thinking we also had Castro for 2011

:)

Adam Evererett was released by the Tigers. I wonder how he'd hit in the NL in a backup role. . . He'd be terrific in the field at the very least.

What's with Amaro and giving the extra year to everyone he signs? He's not getting a discount in terms of dollars, so what's the point?

Add to the conspiracy :

MLB punishment to Phillies after getting caught cheating:

Opposing teams can use binoculars vs. the Phils to finish the season.

****He's not getting a discount in terms of dollars, so what's the point?****

Rejection issues? Perhaps Rube really doesn't like hearing the word no so he doesnt give them a chance by overpaying in both years and $$. He's probably the worst negotiater I've ever seen...funny considering that was supposedly a big part of why he was picked over Arbuckle.

@Jbird

My theory is Ruben, or someone in the FO contract-signing dept, is deathly afraid of "1" as a number. All efforts are made to get as far away from "1" as possible (see how successful Howard's contract extension was in this light, both by length and value).

Everett:

1. Great reputation as a glove man
2. Aging SS living on reputation
3. No bat to speak of.


I fully expect a 4 year deal to be signed shortly.

I understand the extra years to the starters. To the bench guys? Not so much.

I wonder what it'd cost to trade for some bench/ph help like Jeff Keppinger from Houston

NEPP - he's gotta be better than Castro.

i think it's time for our boys of summer to shed the pajama bottoms and go old-school with knickers and knee socks. maybe a little whimsy is in order. moyer and blanton already do. it's also the look of youth, with guys like strasburg retaining their minor league style. it just might play with their heads in a positive way.

when the middle of this lineup starts hitting again, I expect all to be right with the world, but their current drought has really exposed the support cast as inadequate right now. I guess it gets tiring talking about the ancillary players when it's the primary guys faltering, but there's not much you can do with Werth, Utley, & Ibanez other than keep running them out there.

Let's go mets!

****NEPP - he's gotta be better than Castro.****

Just keep Valdez over Castro when Jimmy returns...problem solved.

Defense wise, UZR still loves Everett so there's that. If we're really looking for a sub mendoza line SS, Everett is a viable option...at least for his glove.

****i think it's time for our boys of summer to shed the pajama bottoms and go old-school with knickers and knee socks. maybe a little whimsy is in order. moyer and blanton already do. it's also the look of youth, with guys like strasburg retaining their minor league style. it just might play with their heads in a positive way. ****

Why does this get posted every other day?

RAJ says he wanted Roy over Lee because he could pitch 3 games in a series vs the yankees. That went well.

Maybe you're right about the players when they went from holy crap we have Roy and Lee to, they did what!? Much the same as all of us. Nobody in the clubhouse thought it was a good idea. Only RAJ did. Happ & Blanton getting hurt immediately just makes it more glaring of an error.

I'm with Jbird. This lineup has to start hitting again, right?

rollins has been known to don knickers and knee socks on occasion. he could spearhead the change. his return to the lineup would be a good time to unveil it.

"The guys have track records and they’re good players and they’re championship-caliber players and they will be again."

NEPP. i'm just being whimsical. lighten up. i thought your retort the other day about gloves and numbers was very funny. there is no reason to treat me like a troll.

This endless speculation as to the "cause" of the recent troubles is almost as tiresome as the Groundhog Day experience of watching them play. If letting Lee go was such a psychological blow to the team, how did it take 40 games to manifest itself? I don't blame Charlie Manuel for being subdued. I'm waiting for him to find an excuse to get his ass ejected in the first inning tonight or tomorrow.

"I'm actually OK with how the bench has played to be frank with you."

It's been a while, but it looks like we will be sellers once again at the trade deadline.
Only difference is in order not to offend the fan base the deals will be described as "strengthening the team" (Rube has mastered the Orwell speak).

****NEPP. i'm just being whimsical. lighten up. i thought your retort the other day about gloves and numbers was very funny. there is no reason to treat me like a troll. ****

Sorry, I didn't mean it that way...I was wondering if it was a Meme that I has missed. Looking at my post, I worded it pretty poorly.

Jimmy will hit a leadoff HR in his first AB back and the ship will be righted.

NEPP: thanks. we are all in pain. you must admit it would look cool. i'd love to see howard lumber to the plate looking more like babe ruth.

Seriously, I assumed it was along the lines of:

Victorino is actively hurting this team
3B are tall so they can field balls hit over them
etc etc

I HAVE stopped watching this team. I haven't watched them since it was 3-0 in Fri's game with the Sox. I turned it off before there were 2 outs. I just can't get aggrevated over them anymore. My wife's cousin called me from NJ last night. He's blind so he has to listen of course. Even he's had enough. A lot of phans feel this way I bet.

I said before they started the current trip, thet maybe they's win 2 games tops, and that they'd be dead and buried. Look up the post. Looks that way doesn't it?

And, because there is nothing in the minors save Brown, no help will be coming via trade. I'm out. have a great day phans. C'ya.

Rollins should just hit home runs to save his legs for SS. Galvis should learn to get fitted for protective gear when he hits and learn to taunt the pitchers.

If they keep playing like this the home games are going to be nothing but drinking fests even worse than they are now.
It's going to get ugly.
I think Amaro is going to be as bad as Ed Wade, the further we get from Gillick the more things are going to fade.

Regarding all this "The Phillies are pissed that RAJ didn't keep Lee" nonsense, why didn't they act like that when the Phillies had the change to get CC in 2008, but instead "settled" for Joe Blaton?

They didn't act that way at all, even though getting Blanton wasn't seen as a 'win now at all costs" move. In fact, it was pretty mediocre. All Blanton did that year was solidify our rotation and win game 4 of the World Series. This psychoanalysis nonsensse is just that.

There is one, and ONLY ONE incident that directly coincides with this epic slump, and it's the Rollins' reinjury. They played well through his first injury, just like they did in '08, then when he came back, everything looked like it was great again. The team was rolling over all competition, and even schoole Boston in the first game of that seris. Then he reinjures himself in the 6th inning of that very game, and into the tailspin they go.

Now, is that definitive proof that this slump is the result of the Rollins injury? No, but if we are trying to looking for coincidental events that shed some light on the "Why" of this slump, the Rollins re-injury is heads and tails above the rest.

Oh, and as far as Doc goes against the Yankees, I guess people doubting his ability to beat the Yanks don't care that he 1 hit them last year in a complete game.

wasn't there an american league short stop in last years all star game that looked totally old-school, complete with handlebar moustache?

Geez, you Philly fans are really breaking my heart. At least you have a track record to go by, knowing that come the summer time they'll turn the season around. All us Met fans know is that our team has choked since 2006 and hasn't proven a gosh darned thing. I'm sure the world will get back on it's axis soon enough.

****Regarding all this "The Phillies are pissed that RAJ didn't keep Lee" nonsense, why didn't they act like that when the Phillies had the change to get CC in 2008, but instead "settled" for Joe Blaton?****

Because they actually had Lee on the roster and it wasn't an either/or thing with Lee or Halladay. We didn't trade Lee for Halladay. We traded 3 prospects for Halladay, then sold Lee for 3 replacements. They were separate deals.

We didn't get Sabathia because the Indians weren't interested in our prospects.

Personally, I dont think the Lee deal is why we're currently slumping...I think it has more to do with Rollins being out than anything but I can see where some are coming from on it.

I'm sure my feelings on the Lee deal are abundently clear after the last 7 months of me whining/b!tching about it here. Hard to pin the last 25 games on him though.

So when Rollins comes back everyone is going to miraculously start hitting? Bull.
What if Rollins struggles, or has problems with his calf what will it change? How will he be able to help?
Big deal, Blanton won 1 game in the WS-- it was his career highlight. You are right that we dont carewhat Halladay did last year or Blanton the year before WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS YEAR.

When does Cole pitch again? That might be the next game to tune in.

KK will win tonight. Its only logical. Halladay struggled against a team he usually dominates...KK will dominate a team that should destroy him.

5-2 Phillies.

"My memories of '79 have dimmed. I do remember the feeling that Rose would push them past the Dodgers and into the World Series. I remember that Rose did his part, too. I don't remember if there was a stretch like this one that knocked them out of first that year but, the point where I lost hope is still vivid - they got swept in a 5 game series against Pittsburgh in August and, then a week later, got swept by Pittsburgh in 4. I hate to think that there's even bigger disappointment ahead in this season."

In 1979 the season was over in May/June. They went 14 games over .500 on 5/17, extending their lead to 3.5 games. It didn't get any better. After they won the 23-22 shootout in Chicago on 5/27, putting them in a tie for first place, the slide was on. They reached third place on 6/2. The two Pittsburgh series devastated whatever hopes remained for a fourth consecutive division title.


Also, maybe UC can give Ibanez a break in LF and give Francisco a start out there. BennyFrank has embarrassed himself a couple times this year in the OF but he's actually a decent LF...just dont put him in RF ever.

NEPP;

itll be hard for KK to win tonight with moyer starting the game and kyle slated for thursday. are you predicting an 18 inning affair in which kyle is forced into action? stranger things have happened.

Oh right...I was thinking it was the other way around. Just push the prediction off until tomorrow's game then.

NEPP, I don't necessarily think that Rollins coming back will miraculously change things. I do believe his injury started the slump. What's perpetuated it is another matter altogether, and I haven't the foggiest why they haven't snapped out of it yet. That being said, the Phillies not keeping Lee this offseason is the sorriest reason I've heard to date, especially since they were killing people for stretches this season UNTIL Rollins got re-injured. And IF the Lee deal is somehow, someway the reason the Phillies are slumping, then I'd automatically lose all respect for this team. They are supposed to be professionals, and if they don't think they can win with ROY HALLADAY And Cole Hamels (former WS MVP) at the top of the rotation and their current core of players (most of whom are WS champions already), then they don't deserve to win a damn thing.

As far as the rest of my comments, I wasn't advocating that we rest on the laurels of player's past accomplishments. I was pointing out that
1) The Phillies showed the ability to win a WS with a team that was a lot less talented, and did it after the Phillies had the chance to get the best pitcher on the market in CC, but didn't
2) Regarding Doc, we should care what he's done in his career against the Yankees, especially what he did to this exact Yankees team last year, because that's a bigger indicator of future success than one bad game last night, unless you think Halladay is magically washed up after last night, and no longer the pitcher he was last year.


Nepp- I think it's Moyer tonight and Kendrick tomorrow, but I like youp optomistic projection anyway.

I agree that Castro is terrible. But that is not a surprise. The bench is worse than expected since it would be nice to get a clutch pinch hit to win a couple games.
But the reason they cannot score runs is that the starters are horrendous right now. Do we make a trade to replace Utley, Howard, Werth, Ibanez and Victorino?

At least they could play Francisco in a rotation for the worst OF at any particular time. But to expect a backup to hit .300/.400/.550 is somewhat unreasonable. I guess they could try to trade for a different backup SS who would also be bad. Is Craig Counsell avaialble?

Rollins possesses "the swag" this team needs. I'm looking forward to his return.

At what point do we stop realistically hoping for a turn around this year, and start planning on trading chips to get things for next year?

Serious question.

Hate to break the news to you but Halladay aint going to get another chance to pitch against the Yankees this year in the post season. We probably have a better chance at seeing Lee in the post season with another team than Halladay.

3.5 games back on 6/16 is not the time to start talking about selling off pieces of the team. Hell, even if they get to the trade deadline at ten games back, you have to think a fire sale is unlikely. The only guys who might realistically go in that scenario are Werth and Moyer.

Ok Heather, who do you trade and how will that impact next year's ability to compete?

"especially since they were killing people for stretches this season UNTIL Rollins got re-injured." What are you talking about, he only played for 12 games all year!
It's wishful thinking to think they arent hitting and are playing poor defense and are uninspired just because they miss him.

re: met trolls

any vaccine for them?

or maybe mosquito repellent?

The lack of faith on this blog is startling. Is this not the same team (give or take a few players) that was down 7 games with 17 to go in 2007? Surely, that comeback was helped by the Mets' choke job, but the Phillies still had to win a lot of "must-win" games. Is this not the same team that was down 4 games in the Wild Card standings in mid September of 2008, then went on to sweep the very team they were chasing. They then won the division, and eventually the WS.

How about late September of last year, these same Phils were slumping big time and the upstart Braves were hot on their heels. What did the Phils do? They turned it on, won 3 straight and locked up the division. They then survived a vicious game 4 rally in the NLDS by the Rockies, to win the game in the 9th inning off one of the better closers that year in Huston Street. I don't think I have to tell you about game 3 and 4 of the NLCS. And they were within 1 good start from Cole Hamels from going back to NY up 3-2 in the World Series.

Look, does all this mean that the Phillies will definitely turn it around and go back to the WS this year? Of course not. But, until they are mathematically eliminated, or just clearly out of contention (which they are not even close to at this juncture), the lack of faith is disturbing, to say the least.

"the lack of faith is disturbing, to say the least."

I have faith in my religion, not in my sport's team. I enjoy rooting for the Phillies but I don't measure my fanhood by having faith in their abilities to turn it around until they are absolutely mathematically eliminated.

If the odds say they're not going to make the playoffs, I think that should be discussed as the most realistic scenario for going forward.

My question is just is there a metric at this point in the season to measure teams' chances of making the post season?

Ah, here we go:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_odds.php

Looks like baseball prospectus says the Phils currently have a 15% chance of making the postseason. That certainly isn't overwhelming.

Obviously at this point, it's still a possibility, but IMHO you should be discussing not making the postseason as the very real possibility it is.

"What are you talking about, he only played for 12 games all year!
It's wishful thinking to think they arent hitting and are playing poor defense and are uninspired just because they miss him."

I'm not necessarily advocating that the slump is completely because of Rollin's absence, but the slump's beginning coincides perfectly with Rollins' reinjury, which makes it immediately more credible as a causal effect than any Cliff Lee trade nonsense, or any sign-stealing nonsense.

I already stated, I don't have any idea why the Phillies are still slumping, and I wish I did. But this talk about them slumping NOW because Lee got dealt this summer, even though they played like firebrands for long stretches before this current slump, and even though Cole Hamels is pitching incredibly well right now, and Roy Halladay is Roy Halladay, is all just baseless speculation.

I find it interesting that Hamels had a better WS in 2008 than Lee did in 2009. And Hamels game 5 performance was cut short by rain (only 75 pitches through 6 innings)

The only number I saw Lee had an edge in was K's but that could have been made up with the extra inning or two Hamels would probably gotten through if it weren't for the rain.

Reinforcements?

Personally I thought this team would get a boost with a healthy Lidge & Romero. So much for that assumption.

The sad reality is that this team really hasn't been that hard hit by injuries during this particular downturn. Now you don't know to what extent a guy like Ruiz is hurt (or others).

Still, they are only missing their startig SS and a back-end rotation guy. Hardly a reason why they should be struggling so much. This team has played much better the past few years when they are missing as much/if not more.

As for Happ and JRoll, I don't know how much they will be able to really help this team. Because of their stupidity in handling JRoll's injury, it is a big question mark on just how healthy he will be when he returns. There is also the strong possibility he reaggravates the injury again this year too. Happ has looked really rought so far in his 2 rehab starts. My bet sadly is that Happ winds up having offseason surgery this year on his elbow. Hope that isn't the case because if it is he likely won't be able to help them much in '11 either. My bet is they end up prolonging the inevitable, lose 3-4 months in the process, and look a little foolish even if there should be a real hesistaton to try to things heal on their own before cutting.

More and more, this season is reminding me of the movie 'Zulu' with Michael Caine. Basically a group of older guys who are beat up and weery, cut off from reinforcements, and forced to make do with what they have in face of what appear increasingly difficult circumstances.

"I have faith in my religion, not in my sport's team. I enjoy rooting for the Phillies but I don't measure my fanhood by having faith in their abilities to turn it around until they are absolutely mathematically eliminated."

You sound like an accountant. What the hell is the point of being a fan if one is so stoic in their fandom? What will it cost you if you watch this team with a well-founded hope (based on past events) that they can and may turn this around and still make the playoffs.

There's legitimacy in not rooting for a team when it's obvious the FO doesn't care or the players on the field are just out there to collect a paycheck, but what about this team/FO suggests that scenario? Did not the FO try to put out a team that gives us the best chance to win? As poorly as Ross Gload and Schneider have played this season, they were great pickups given their past performances (contract length notwithstanding). Getting Polanco and Halladay were earmarks of a FO that is interested in putting the best possible product on the field. This is a FO you root for, even if their moves don't work out, since they can't guarantee that everyone will play as well as they had hoped.

And this is a team you root for, because of the fact that they've proven time and again before that they can overcome terrible slumps, ridiculously bad odds and conventional logic that say they can't make the playoffs.

And if you do that and they still don't make the playoffs, you move on with your life and root next year. We all learned a great deal about how to do that from the Eagles this past decade.

No trade can right this ship. If we got Joe Mauer for David Herndon, we still wouldn't be in 1st place. The worst thing Ruben can do right now is trade prospects for a veteran.

"You sound like an accountant. What the hell is the point of being a fan if one is so stoic in their fandom? "

You be a fan like you want to be, I'll be a fan like I want to be, thanks very much.

Is Halladay > than Lee plus the prospects used to get Halladay-- Drabek, D'Arnaud etc?
Right now I would say no, especially with Blanton resigned for another 2 years with money that would have gone a long way to signing Lee.

baxter - It is incredibly premature to say what the Phils will/won't need in another 6 weeks. By then, the Phils should have a better idea on what Rollins & Happ are likely to contribute, to see jut how much their offense stands, and what shape their bullpen & back-end rotation are in. Ditto on the standings.

My preference though is not to trade a guy like Brown for a middle-of-the rotation starter though. The cupboard is fairly barren already.

MG- When did I notably complain about KK and Moyer? Maybe I forgot.

"You be a fan like you want to be, I'll be a fan like I want to be, thanks very much."

Almost as interesting as not replying at all.

Bullit - and i mean no offense, but are you either gay or a woman? all your posts are about uni's and players looks. i don't come here to read about "whimsical" things.

Maybe someone can phrase this better than me but the Phillies were fortunate to have a burst of a couple of years of franchise players from their farm system, Rollins, Utley,Hamels Howard because they have nothing for the years since. Every team we play in the past five years seems to have position players ready to hit the ground running but us. We have to wait five years for a guy like Domonick Brown to get ready. I wonder if Arbuckle should get some of the credit and how well they will do without him in the organization. Rube thinks Dobbs and Gload are doing fine. We should have a couple of guys better than them ready for the show every year.

What's the over/under on Yankee runs tonight??

12??
15??
27??

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EST. 2005

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