Game chat: Kendrick tries to get on track in Atlanta

Coming off a horrendous start against Washington, Kyle Kendrick (0-0, 17.47) tries to recapture some of his past success against Tommy Hanson (1-1, 2.38) and the Braves in the first of three from Atlanta.

Preview: A lack of healthy bodies and shortage of depth are keeping Kendrick, who was originally ticketed for the bullpen, in the starting rotation. His location has been an issue, and left-handed batters are hitting an ungodly .563 against him. He's had good success against Atlanta in the past, but will have his work cut out for him against left-handed sluggers Brian McCann, who kills the Phillies, and rookie sensation Jason Heyward. What to watch: Chase Utley's base-running continues to be one of the more underrated assets to the lineup, a point hammered home by Jayson Werth's costly base-running mistake on Sunday. Meanwhile, Ryan Howard's early struggles with the glove qualify as the season's most underrated deficiency. Howard has reportedly been putting in extra practice reps at first with infield coach Sam Perlozzo. Ibanez: Even though it's still mid April, there have been murmurs as to whether slumping 37 year old Raul Ibanez has finally hit the wall. Ibanez, who's hitting .171 and has basically been in an unproductive lull since last June, is back in the lineup tonight trying to snap an 0-for-12 skid. Happ update: Twitter reports didn't sound encouraging as injured left-hander J.A. Happ compared his current elbow strain with the one that lingered all throughout 2007.

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Comments

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

If you believe that Madson's problems will be solved when he's moved back to the 8th inning, and that Lidge will be as good as new when he returns, then I guess there's some reason for optimism. Personally, I don't believe either of those things. Half of the runs Madson has given up this year have come in non-save situations. He is not a good pitcher right now, whatever the situation. As for Lidge, never has anyone received so much credit for pitching a clean inning in A ball. He still has an ERA of 9.64, despite mainly pitching to players who are several years away from making the majors, if that.

I am generally an optimist, but it is hard to see how they are going to get by with this bullpen.

[GBrettfan]

Madson's ERA now higher than KK's ERA, I believe I just heard on Comcast Sportsnet's post-game.

[RSB]

Maybe if the Phillies can't afford to trade more prospects, they can unload two or even three of these plan-B set-up guys in favor of one who can actually do the job at the end.

[MG]

Amazing thing is that Madson got first-pitch strikes against 5/6 hitters he faced. He just made a couple of mistake pitches against guys who can hit it out and they did.

Getting beat by McLouth in the 10th though just rubbed some salt in the wound. Not a guy who want to get beat by.

[Mr. Mack]

Stop guys, stop it! For anyone who thinks that this BP will be fine is kidding themselves. You are hoping and praying. What has this BP done so far this season to give you that kind of confidence? The 08 pen was good because everyone had defined roles. This team is playing shuffle the deck just like last year.

There is no real plan going in, just hoping that guys return to prior form. I am sick of that mentality. What is wrong with having two closers and if one guy dominates, trade the other one for something of value to fill a need. Plan B was "let's hope Brad & JC come back'. Real encouraging. That is the 'old' Phillies way of doing things. Lidge is done...move on.

[MG]

Frankly I have almost become kind of numb to the bullpen meltdowns by this team after watching the flotilla of crap they ran out there in '07 and the historically terrible season that Lidge had last year.

I was also pretty impressed by the lineup tonight. They looked much more patient and collected at the plate tonight. They are going to need to be against a guy like Hudson tomorrow.

[4daysrest.com]

That's because Ryan Madson is a fucking loser. Thanks.

[Mrs. Madson]

Don't blame my son! He was given a lousy target by that little catcher !

[TTI]

MG: They went slider, change-up, fastball which is not a bad mix to Glaus. The problem is that Madson threw the fastball about 9 inches to the right of where it was supposed to go.

The only way someone would get on Ruiz for that is if they have some agenda they are trying to further saying he's a bad catcher. If he calls for a fastball off the plate away from the hitter and the pitch ends up waist high right down the middle of the plate whose fault is that? It certainly isn't Ruiz's.

[Dukes]

Clint - I just think their pitching staff (including bullpen) is deeper than ours. And I think their lineup is not that far behind us. I see prado as close to polanco, McCann just a step behind Utley, and Heyward just might have a better year than Howard.

I know it's early and I'm going to get a lot of crap for all this, but it's how I've felt since I watched the Braves play the Phillies one random Spring training game when I had off from work. They just seem deeper and better to me. I hope I'm wrong.

[MG]

TTI - C'mon yeah it was. Glaus is a sucker to chance the high-strike out of the zone and he has been behind on the fastball all night. The obvious pitch to start him out there was a high fastball.

Ruiz didn't miss location there but he called fastball in an obvious fastball spot.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

I have nothing of substance to say. I went to the Pirates game tonight and DAve Bush looked like Orel Hersheiser. I was happily watching the zeroes on the out of town score board, which showed a 3-0 Phils lead after 8. Honestly, I don't want to know what happened. That's an unfathomable turn of events.

[TTI]

Before this goes further with Ruiz let me say this: if Ruiz calls for a fastball and sets up on the middle of the plate and it gets hit out then we can talk about bad pitch selection. But in the scenario that happened tonight with Glaus' at bat, it wasn't bad pitch selection.

[Burrell]

Who do you guys trust out of the pen at this point? Durbin has been the only guy who has been consistent this year, other than that I can't think of anybody.

Maybe Herndon, but he seems to have bad luck with all the seeing balls guys have been hitting off him.

Either way, this pen needs some help whether it come internally or externally, it needs some fucking help

[Meyer]

This is the best thing that could have happened to Kendrick as he was planning his early summer revenge already, way too soon, against Brett Myers. I did like the shot of Roy giving his approval after 8 full.

[Iceman]

Some great stuff here tonight. Three hours ago most people here had Kendrick on a bus back to AAA saying he couldn't be a starter...now Madson can't be a closer and we should just accept that Lidge is done. The best line of the night might be that Heyward "might have a better year than Howard."

Please, someone copy/paste that last one. "Heyward just might have a better year than Howard." Copy/paste that and save it until September.

[MG]

Ryan Madson is still the best guy they have in the pen right or wrong. He just isn't pitching well right now at all including not getting ahead of enough hitters (although he did tonight), using too many cutters/curves, and just not able to locate his fastball or get the late life on it.

Bullpen isn't as bad as they have looked the last 3 games but it isn't as good as they have looked the first 2 weeks either. Either way people will likely get their wish because it will probably look pretty different by the end of the month.

[Dukes]

Iceman - how do you judge a better year? If you're talking homeruns, then Howard definitely wins. If you're talking all around game, I think I had a point.

[Phillies Red]

The season is far too young for us to be talking about who has or hasn't been consistent so far this year. We just haven't seen enough in 13 games for reasoned judgments to be made, especially when these guys have only pitched like 8 innings.

Look, Madson hasn't been super sharp this year. We've seen this from him before: he gets roughed up a couple of games and then owns everyone for two straight months. I think he's still this team's closer. Lidge had a long leash last year, and until a better option is available, I think Madson still has some slack to work with. He better get it going soon, and not save his job, but to help this team close it down.

[Clint]

dont worry dukes your wrong, maybe about the pitching you have a point, but macCann a step behind Chase???? i know its 4/20 but dude c'mon

[Dukes]

i'm glad everyone is talking me down, cause i don't want to be right. i'm just saying i think they are better than we give them credit for.

[G-Town Dave]

Dukes: ... or the Phillies are a weaker team than people think they are. In reality, it's probably a bit of both.

[Iceman]

Dukes- no, I'm not just talking about home runs. Only a moron would say someone who had more HRs had a 'better year' than another player while ignoring other stats.

I guess 'better year' is a subjective label; it's obviously comprehensive. But if you really think 20 year-old Jason Heyward will have a "better year," by any reasonable comprehensive measure, than established big-league star Ryan Howard, then no, I don't think you have a point. Those are the words of someone on the ledge, ready to jump off.

[DH Phils]

Madson in save situations: 4 IP, 3 ER
Madson in nonsave situations: 3 IP, 3 ER

For the 900th damn time, MVPTommy's roles theory has no basis in reality. Madson has been awful in every situation.

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

As with Lidge last year, I think Madson has pitched poorly enough that most of the bullpen should be considered better options at this point. Six runs in seven innings isn't acceptable when you're only pitching one inning a night.

[Iceman]

And how is this game the benchmark for Madson not being able to be a closer? He was obviously terrible in the 9th inning last year and no one wanted to jump off the bandwagon. Now one blown save and everyone is ready to throw him under the bus?

Personally I thought the guy was a bum last year and I still think he's a bum: I think my exact words after the Glaus HR were "Madson is a bum." And I'm obviously someone who will defend someone until the very end. But what makes this different from all his blown saves last year?

[MG]

You want a 'What-If':

Madson was able to put that fastball at 97/98 vs. 95 MPH to Glaus. Glaus was still guessing fastball all the way but I wonder if he is able to get around and put it out if it was. Oh well.

[MG]

Iceman - You rightly defend Howard and yet 'Madson is a bum." Strange views there.

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

Iceman, the main difference is that he has now been bad for the past ten months or so.

[G-Town Dave]

I don't know if Madson's a bum, but he's certainly gotten a much better reputation than he deserves. Aside from a single, shining half-season of brilliance in '08 his entire career has been slightly above mediocre. Bringing him into a close ball game, be it in the 8th or the 9th, has always been a coin flip. It's nice that he has great "stuff" & all, but I'd rather see less "stuff" & more production.

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

For posterity, I don't think Madson is "done." Relievers often show a lot of variance. I would not be surprised if he becomes a good pitcher again soon. But until he does, we should not be using him in high-leverage situations.

[G-Town Dave]

Yo, late-nite JW bestows upon us a new thread.

[PS]

Let's Go Mets

[Iceman]

MG- sorry, I should have defined the term 'bum,' at least in terms of relief pitching.

I said to me, personally, he is a 'bum.' To me, bum = guy who can't get it done when the chips are down, i.e. the ninth inning.

If you showed me his stats in save situations vs. non-save situations, my guess is you would see a remarkable difference. Unfortunately I'm too lazy and inebriated to look it up. Maybe you could englighten me on how remarkable the difference is, because, as someone who has probably seen 95% of Madson's appearances in save situations (9th inning, not including the World Series game-tying bomb to Baldelli in the 7th), for the life of me it seems like he blows it 50% of the time with a relatively decent sample size.

To me, that = bum. Sorry if that's just as unreasonable to you as "20 year-old prospect will have a better year that Ryan Howard."