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Friday, April 16, 2010


nice pic. Talk about DITHL..

Quick wuestion about the game yesterday, and sorry if it was covered in the game thread. Were the Washington homers to right aided by fans? I ask because I was sitting in the upper level in right and I couldn't see the balls go out, but I could see Werth say something to the crowd and give them some prolonged looks after the balls went out. He look disgusted about something. Did fans reach over and help those balls.

Ugly loss, but oh well.

Ho hum, the Phils won another series. 7-2. I refuse to complain (even though that game was ours for the taking!)

Yeah, that was a less than stellar outing from one of the top relief acquisitions. As long as outings like that are few and far between I'll take it. Seems like the bullpen is just running out of steam after a heavy work load already this season. They need a healthy Lidge and Romero back soon!

i wasn't able to see the game. could someone explain the baez body language?

also, has charlie publicly said that baez will be the 8th inning setup guy or is this a "by committee" approach?

Nats were seeing red. Ceremonies, their pitchers getting hammered and then BAEZ who they saw way too often on the evening news in the greater Washington area. They didn't need a scouting report on him. I hope they pound the rest of the NL East.

Describe it? Like fireants were nipping at various points on his body.

From Jason Stark's Rumblings and Grumblings:

Scouts Take -

On Cole Hamels: "I think he's become cutter-crazy and forgotten what makes him good. He's good when he's using his curveball to change people's eye level, but now, when he's throwing that high cutter, nothing is moving their eyes. To me, he has to be an up-and-down-the-ladder guy. He needs to go up and down the ladder with fastball-curve-changeup and then just show that cutter as a pitch to get in on a right-hander's hands. But he's hardly even using his curveball. If he's going to use a fastball/cutter/change mix, he's a No. 3 starter. If he's a fastball/curve/change guy, he's a No. 2 or a No. 1."

I don't know that they were out of steam, but I will chalk it up to a bad BP showing and not worry - Unless the BP makes a regular habit of this. Plus, everyone agrees the starters need to go deeper.

Speaking of starters, check out Paul Hagen's article on There are some who think (over)usage of the cutter is hurting Cole and KK.

PHinBK: Hagen had similar post, with more detail:

Here's Hagen piece about Hamels and KK trying to throw cutters (which is essentially a type of slider):

Several folks, including a scout and Jim Kaat, think the cutter is a bad idea for them and has impacted the way Hamels throws his curve and KK his sinker for the worse.

Pitch Fx backs this up. KK and Hamels have been throwing lots more cutter/sliders and their sinker and curve (respectively) have been missing badly.

A quote from Kitty: "I read where they were going to teach Cole Hamels a slider," he said. "I was a [Twins] teammate of [manager Charlie Manuel] and I follow the Phillies. I just kind of wanted to warn him that I learned early in my career, actually from Whitey Ford, it's very rare, if at all, that you find a pitcher who has a good curve and a good slider. They have one or the other."

As good as this offense is... (and it was shut down for most of the game) I'm never worried about coming back. In fact... before Madson's 2 runs, I was absolutely SURE they were coming back and at least tying this game. That's what this team does. They will win these types of games more often than not as the year wears on...

Its just that the starters needs to give the bullpen a chance.

For those who questioned Blanton's Innings Eating abilities are probably reversing course now...

Baez knew these guys could hit by watching the evening news also. Nat's FAFF index +++.(Fire Ant Feeding Frenzy).

I think Hamels should keep the cutter, but he needs to learn when he should be throwing it. His curve is actually a very good pitch if he can command it, and he needs to use it more. Hamels should be throwing his cutter in to right handed hitters to try and induce some weak grounders.

I agree, Hamels has become "cutter crazy". I don't think it is a bad pitch for him, he just needs work it into his game plan better.

Bay: Kaat's point is that when you throw the cutter you lose the touch on your curve. It has to be one or the other.

The problem is that his cutter is actually a better pitch than his curve. At least he can throw the cutter for strikes.

I still think he should be a fastball, changeup, cutter, slider guy myself.

I hate that curve...its terrible.

If anyone is selling tickets for tonight, please shoot me an email

I'm in Mt. Laurel, NJ for the day until I head over to the stadium around 5.

Wait a second. Doesn't Ruiz call the pitches. I didn't see too much head shaking from Hamels.

NEPP: The cutter and the slider are essentially the same pitch with slightly different break. The curve is much different and offers wider variety.

To repeat the quote from the Stark story:

"If he's going to use a fastball/cutter/change mix, he's a No. 3 starter. If he's a fastball/curve/change guy, he's a No. 2 or a No. 1."

If you were Dubee, how long into the season do you let Hamels continue to tinker? The team has survived his starts thus far, but with the 4/5 of rotation turning in short outings and taxing the pen, perhaps Hamels should focus on 2.5 pitches for a little while.

Clout: I wonder how Hamels feels about this? I'm not sure my skills as a scout are honed enough to say he should be going with one or the other. I'll trust Stark on this one I guess.

Still, I think he should keep the cutter in his arsenal. Would throwing 3-5 cutters a game, instead of 10-15, really mess up his curve that much?

Wait a second! Halladay and Lee both throw cutters AND curves. Something has to give?

And here's a quote from Kaat: "There are more sliders hit out of the ballpark, particularly in late-game, game-on-the-line situations, than any other pitch."

He believes Hamels' curve is a far superior weapon.

Chooch only does what Dubee tells him that's why Coste is no longer here.

Bay: That's true and maybe if you're Halladay or Lee you have no problem with losing the feel on your curve.

****NEPP: The cutter and the slider are essentially the same pitch with slightly different break. The curve is much different and offers wider variety.****

Really clout? No sh!t. I dont buy their explanation either way. There are guys that have no issue with a fastball/slider/changeup that Santana fella in NY. If Santana can do it, why can't Cole?

His problem isnt changing the eye level of the hitter, its hitting his spots with his fastball.

Good thing we have our stopper on the mound tonight to end this one game losing streak.

****He believes Hamels' curve is a far superior weapon.****

Have they actually ever seen him throw a curve? Its terrible and he cant throw it for strikes.

Lee in fact throws a cutter, curve AND a slider, which Halladay does not throw.

Thinking back, Marichal threw a great slider and curve, those were probably his 2 best pitches, plus a screwball. And Tiant threw slider and curve.

I'm guessing guys of that quality are exceptions rather than norm.

Clout: I think Hamels curve is a very good pitch when he can control it. The curve has a very sharp break, and as Stark says, it is very good at changing the eye level of the hitter. I would say Hamels is more likely to freeze someone with a well placed curve than a cutter, no?

My problem with all this is that I'm not convinced throwing a cutter will mess with the curve. As I stated before, both Halladay and Lee are examples of pitchers who throw both well, and I'm sure there are other examples.

The current problem with all this is that learning the cutter has made the curve a bit rusty (not that it has ever been a polished pitch in the past). Hamels needs to talk with Halladay, Dubee, and Ruiz and figure out a nice distribution on what he should be throwing. I think 5 cutters and 10-15 curves sounds about right.

After last season all the writers, analysts, and BLers (myself included) were calling for Hamels to add a cutter. I didn't see anyone mention then that adding a cutter would mess with the curve, did you?

On the positive side, Contrares looked great yesterday. No one's going to remember that after what the rest of the 'pen did, but he was blazing some serious fastballs up there.

I was at the game yesterday, fortunately not in the vicinity of the serial vomiter, but you can't get away from the alcoholism anywhere in the ballpark. I was (or thought I was) fortunate enough to be sitting in the second row near home plate, and the three guys in front of me were totally tanked the whole game and spewing untold crudities right in front of a seven or eight year-old kid. Yeah, the security eventually catches on, but it's ridiculous how frequently you see people in that state at a game. It's the prevailing culture in Philadelphia to be stupid out of your mind, and the Phillies clearly don't do enough to discourage this from happening. It makes me so disgusted I almost don't like going to games anymore. But then if I watch on TV I'm sick all over again when I see random folks being celebrated for drinking out of beer bottles on the 'Thirst Cam'. Yeah, it's hardly an original complaint, and no duh, baseball and beer have always been the closest of bedfellows, but it's even more of a despicable, absurdly hypocritical association when MLB goes on a witch hunt to suspend players for 'substance abuse'.

Stepping down from the soapbox now. I just don't want to hear that it's only a handful of people who distort my perspective and ruin games for people. Some days it's like half the crowd, and I see it again and again no matter where I sit in the park. Why anyone would bring a kid to a Phillies game is beyond my comprehension.

Halladay does seem to slop some curve balls up there but its so different then his wicked snot that it works as a change.

Whatever the case may be Cole is the key to October success. Beating the Giants, the Braves, the Yankees, and the Red Sox is going to take more than Halladay. The Phils need a second gun and he's the best option they've got. I don't think the minors have enough left to get another top of the rotation guy in July.

RSB, have you been a regular attendee at games for hte last couple decades? If anything, CBP is ridiculously proactive on crowd security compared to the Vet...or to Fenway for that matter. CBP is a very friendly family atmosphere most of the time.

One big issue is that nobody usually has the balls to say anything to an usher because they dont want to be the bad guy and security can't do something about it if they dont know. They also cant be everywhere at once.

Hey, didn't HAPP pitch yesterday? What was up with his 6:0 BB:K split?

Didn't see the game, can someone fill me in on why nobody's concerned about that?

I tend to think that Contreras will be pushing Baez out of the 8th inning role at some point soon. His stuff is better and he's got a better track record as a pitcher. I also tend to think that Herndon will be moving up the depth chart as well and will be getting more meaningful innings.

NEPP: "Have they actually ever seen him throw a curve? Its terrible and he cant throw it for strikes."

According to pitch Fx, 11.5% of the pitches Hamels has thrown in his career are curveballs and 75.8% of them were strikes. Opponents scored -2.61 runs above average per 100 curveballs thrown in his career(i.e. slightly more than 2 fewer runs than league average.)

I was at the game. Both teams looked a little lifeless coming off of a long game the night before.

****Didn't see the game, can someone fill me in on why nobody's concerned about that?****

Mainly because he didn't allowed any earned runs and left with the lead.

Yeah, his control has been a bit off and it hurt his ability to go deeper into the game but he left the game in a winnable fashion.

I have taken my son to countless Phillies games and not once have I seen a Phillies fan who was stumbling or uttering obscenities. Some who drank too much, yes, absolutely--but it never got bad. Now, I did see a drunken Mets fan get unruly a few years ago and then a bit of a fight broke out between him and a few Phils fans--but they were quickly ejected.

The worst stuff I've seen was in the upper decks during Dollar Dog nights. Phils lose the game and the j-offs in the upper deck toss their dogs on the field. I try to stay away from DD Nights...and Phils-Mets or Red Sox games.

How come no one is talking about how Howard's defense cost the Phils 2 runs yesterday?

I happen to agree that Hamels should focus on EITHER the cutter or the curve; I noted before the year that the issue with thinking he had a really bad year last year (as opposed to just an unlucky one) is that he might go crazy trying to change things, and then actually end up making himself worse, thus making it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That said, have some patience people--especially the media. I think it's really funny that a few weeks ago, in ST, everyone was abuzz about how good Kendrick and Hamels looked and how they were adding pitches, and how good that was for them. Two bad starts for each, and we're blaming the addition of new pitches. Personally, I don't think Kendrick is any good no matter what pitches he throws, but if we're gonna try and have him improve by adding to his repertoire, we should give it more than two bad starts.

****According to pitch Fx, 11.5% of the pitches Hamels has thrown in his career are curveballs and 75.8% of them were strikes. Opponents scored -2.61 runs above average per 100 curveballs thrown in his career(i.e. slightly more than 2 fewer runs than league average.)****

You can use statistics to "prove" anything...18% of people know that.

I'm actually surprised that its that high (the percentage of strikes). It just feels like he has lots of trouble being effective with it over the past couple years and in the playoffs especially. One of those times when your eyes are lying to you I suppose.

If we had a #2 like Cliff Lee we could survive a mediocre #3 - #5 and a mediocre BP. A crazy dream, I know.

Dan in Philly: Because to most posters on here, defense only matters at SS and CF.

RSB - you should go to a professional soccer game, abroad or even in MLS. Baseball crowds are nothing.

Dan: We have all accepted that Howard can't throw to second. You would think that a professional athlete could throw a ball 30 feet, but the guy just can't do it.

Also, I think JW is onto something with Baez. Charlie seemed to insert him into a high-leverage role solely because he had done it before, not because he'd actually been a very good reliever the last couple years. If you ask me, Contreras is pitching far better than Baez right now, and should move ahead of him on the bullpen depth chart (which we all know is how Charlie manages the pen).

I haven't been to a great number of Phillies games, but I've gone in expecting an issue and not had one, when taking the kids.

In Denver, we had some loud Dodgers fans yelling "Hey Francis! You suck!" in our ears, until they were asked by security to quit saying that, at which point they changed it to "Hey Francis! You're no good!" Not crude, and even comical, but so loud that it was unpleasant - although the guys themselves were friendly enough.

In St. Louis, we sat by a group of folks who'd clearly been at the bars beforehand, who freely swore - and another small group behind us using offensive language - but they stopped when my stepmother pointed out children were in front of them. They even apologized and censored each other after that. The drunk party next to us was still annoying, but in that way that drunk people can be, nothing terrible.

Just pointing out that unpleasantness happens everywhere. And I don't doubt your story for a minute, but I've been fortunate not to have a bad experience at CBP with my kids in tow. We'll see and hear some of it going on somewhere in our vicinity, but it's not been excessive or unbearable.

Sorry you had the bad experience, RSB, and I don't blame you for being upset by it. People can be thoughtless and discourteous, and that gets to me, too. What's so hard about realizing children are around and censoring your language? Of course, our esteemed Chase was guilty of that breach of courtesy, too. From an adult perspective, it can be regarded as humorous, but from a parent's perspective, it would have been more desirable had he been mindful of the fact of children being present. Not to make it into a huge deal and rehash that well-discussed incident again.

If we had Cliff Lee, we'd still be pitching KK and Moyer because Lee would be on the DL until May with a strained oblique.

And Blanton (the favorite choice) would of course be on the DL for some other team that we traded him to to even out the money.


NEPP - I have no problem with Phillies security - they do an excellent job. I'm talking more about the lack of effort to prevent public drunkenness. Between tailgating, McFaddens, and unlimited alcohol sales in the ballpark, not to mention ads for it all over the place, this is the resulting culture. You don't have to attend every other game to see this is the norm. And if you haven't encountered an ugly episode nearby in the presence of children at a game, I would say you're pretty fortunate.

****Dan: We have all accepted that Howard can't throw to second. You would think that a professional athlete could throw a ball 30 feet, but the guy just can't do it.***

Overall, Howard is a very good defender. He's got great reflexes at 1B, excellent range and he's great at digging balls out of the dirt...something overlooked. His one weakness is throwing balls to 2B. SOmetimes he rushes it and his arm slot drops causing him to throw it away. He's made great strides in this area since Perlozzo came on board and I personally have no issues with his overall defense. It only takes watching a guy like Adam Dunn bungle 1B to realize that Howard is actaully pretty good with the leather. YEah, he's no Gonzalez or Pujols but he's not below average as some here would have you think.

Cowboy Joe West was calling a postage stamp sized strikezone for the pitchers.

If there's an argument for computerized K/B calls, its people like Joe West, CB Bucknor and Meals (and balking Bob) that make their argument for them.

RSB, I've seen isolated incidents but nothing like the Vet and nothing like what I've seen regularly at games in Fenway. In Fenway, god help you if you're in the RF or CF bleachers. Its the 700 level on Crack out there.

The scariest baseball crowd I've ever seen was in San Francisco at their new park. I was there for one of those final spring training exhibitions between them and Oakland back in 07 and I've never been more scared in my life by a baseball crowd. My fiancee and I had good seats (3rd row up from the field in the LF bleachers...right behind Bonds actually) and it was ridiculously out of control. We both a Phillies hat (me) and a Red Sox hat (her) on so we were essentially left alone but it was interesting to say the least.

Great stadium though...amazing to watch a game in even if the crowd was iffy.

NEPP - You have no idea whether either Lee or Blanton would have suffered any injury in that situation, unless you can show that they would have been used exactly the same by 2 different teams, trained just the same, experienced exactly the same conditions in 2 different locales, etc., if they had been with other teams during ST.

Howard >>>>>> Dunn

that's the thing though curt, we have no idea whether he'd be healthy either.

I assume that he could get injured just as easily during our spring training as with Seattle's.

If Lee pitches 120 injury plagued injuries this year, was trading him still a mistake?

joe: Ironic that West says the games take too long and then he proceeds to call a strikezone that requires more plate appearances by hitters and several more pitching changes than would be necessary with a "normal" one.

And as far as the alcohol in the park thing, as with everything else in this world, it's all money-driven and it's sad. The ridiculous amount of money they make in booze sales is beyond comprehension. I think they should actually increase the price of beer in CBP to that of what the Yanks charge ($10/per) and perhaps that would bring the rowdiness down some. I just don't get tailgating for baseball games. That should be reserved for football and playoff games only and not for a season that lasts 162 games.

Actually, Lee probably would NOT be on the DL because he wouldn't have been in the home plate collision that caused his current injury.

And Howard's error led to only 1 run, not 2. Considering that we subsequently came back and took a 2-run lead, that our bullpen allowed 6 earned runs, and that we ended up losing by more than the 1 run that scored on Howard's error, it seems rather misplaced to be blaming the loss on Howard's defense.

NEPP: I, too, had my worst fan experience in San Francisco. Had my Phillies hat stolen right off of my head, too. Thing was they really didn't seem all that interested in the game (which was actually one in their Subway Rivalry and Bonds was still playing--I want to say it was 2003), but they sure were unruly.

I still cover my kids eyes every time Howard cocks his arm to throw the ball anywhere - 2B, home plate, the crowd behind the dugout....

I think clout, Jack, Stark, et al make good points. Cole can obviously be a No.1 or a No.2 by effectively moving and locating his two best pitches: change up and fastball. He was WS and NLCS MVP one year. And we've seen him use his curveball effectively at times, too. I don't mind him trying to expand his repertoire, but I do think that the point Jack made about this being a self-fulfilling prophecy has a chance to become true. A lot was made last year about the sub-25, 200+IP decline that several young pitchers had undergone of late (Verlander included who ended up 2nd in Al CY last season, more of that in a minute). So there was a healthy reason to believe that his youth, combined with a fast-track career that had few, if any non-injury set backs, had all of its bad luck dumped on it in one year, and there was no reason NOT to think he wouldn't be able to bounce back the following season. After 2 starts everyone wants to write his season, and his cutter, off already. Too soon.

Anecdotally, here was Verlander's April numbers last season:
1-2, 6.75 ERA, 1.53 WHIP, 10.9K/9

Here are Cole's numbers so far:
2-0, 5.06 ERA, 1.50 WHIP, 9.3 K/9

Patience, people.

I think we can all agree that California baseball fans are the worst. Nothing like getting a knife pulled on you at Dodger Stadium!

People keep asking when I'm going to take my 3-month-old to a game. Gotta admit I'm in no real rush. We'd get the same father/son enjoyment from a Riversharks or R-Phils game at a fraction of the cost.

Nevertheless, I think we've watched every game together on television. He loves it.

hh, I mst say I usually enjoy your posts but if yo ever again propose $10 beer at the zen again I am going to ask JW to send you the way of tommy.

Dunn dun duffed dat digger by Dobbs the other day. Howard's at least flexible with soft hands.

SF fans can be surprisingly unruly, especially when the Dodgers or A's are in town. Still, I've been to plenty of games at AT&T Park and had nothing but good experiences. In fact, I still have a great Phillies cap that I got there around 2003 or so. Funnily enough, I stole it right off some woman's head during a melee.

To build on NEPP's point, is it possible that Cliff Lee is to the Mariners as Freddy Garcia is to the Phillies? If this turns out to be the case we have to be happy about it. I seem to recall we were happy to be getting Garcia at the time.

A "melee?" Must be a fancy SF word....

b_a_p: If she was a readhead, than I have a bone to pick with you.

awh: I'm only half-serious on the beer price increase. It would hurt for my own enjoyment, because I like to have a few beers at the game. Yet I can drink responsibly and don't tailgate beforehand so I've never been drunk at a game. The issue is more on individuals' own self-control, I think. How much responsibility do the rest of need to take for a fraction of the fanbase that just can't stiffle its douchebaggery? (and don't you EVER compare my to Tommy again! lol)

Actually if we had kept Lee AND Blanton, neither would be injured because Blanton would have been pitching the day that Lee would not have been in the collision and would have been off eating donuts on the day he failed to injure himself. But Happ and Kendrick would have both had severe lip injuries from pouting in the bullpen because Moyer was still, inexplicably, the fifth starter and Pedro Martinez would have pulled a left hamstring while hawking doodads from a souvenir stand outside Fenway Park.

But that's in some alternate reality.

I think.

The phillies are marketing the team to 20 somethings who have a lot of disposable income. Many live at home and price is no object-- they are there to drink and be part of an event.
I would raise the price of beer until it has an effect on sales, have police issue tickets for drinking in the parking lots and eliminate the vendors in the stands. Make it like Fenway and Wrigley get up and get in line to get your beers, it really cuts down on the problems of bringing beers to people who can barely sit upright.

Raising the price of beer is not going to change anything!! Young people will just drink more in the parking lot for the game.

The best solution would be an electronic system that tracks who bought the ticket by credit card and email that's tied to a reward/reputation system to incentivize fans to behave. In the 21st century we have the tools to make these changes, but franchises lack the willingness to go that far.

Clout - The Fan Graph data on Hamels' curveball actually indicates it has been a slightly below average pitch in terms of scored per 100 pitches. Hamels has actually gotten worse results with it the past few years.

It is kind of hilarious to hear that Hamels' 'troubles' have been traced largely to him not using his curveball enough or that Hamels has a real quality curveball. Hamels' has never been able to get alot of swing/misses on his curveball on his career (only 6% which is slightly below average) or able to throw it for strikes consistently.

Hamels has been throwing his cutter in his two starts a fair amount but he used it a fair amount in his first one because he couldn't locate his 4-seemer for a strike with enough consistency.

I do find it kind of surprising that Hamels continues to use his changeup less and less (35% in '06 to 29% so far this year). It is still his bread & butter pitch. Using it progressively less seems like a poor strategy.

Hamels also had has some real issues locating his 4-seem fastball too especially in his first start. If he is able to locate that pitch say 8/10 times, he isn't going to be dominant.

If I Dubee, I would have Hamels pare back a bit on the cutter but in favor of slightly more changeups. It wouldn't hurt to miss in a few more curveballs too but it is still a pitch that is a work in progress. There are going to be nights where Hamels just can't throw it for a strike or get much horizontal break on it.

It is too early to judge Hamels though on just 2 starts. I would say you could have a better idea by mid-May or so.

I have friends who tailgate before the game, drink in the stands for about 6 innings, then got to McFaddens for the rest of the game. I don't know how they get home without killing themselves or someone else. I refuse to drive with them. But as far as I know, they've never gotten into fights or even drawn the attention of CBP security.

As for cussing by the fans in front of kids.... last year I bought a kid a stuffed Phanatic doll to apologize for a stream of obsenities after a typical Feliz at-bat. I still feel guilty about it. (And I hadn't had a thing to drink, either.) Now that Feliz is gone, I think I can control myself, unless the starting pitching (other than King Roy) continues to stall after 5 innings.

My dad had a bad experience in Kansas City a season or two ago, so there's bad folks everywhere.

Isn't there some new text option at that for security help?

Don't forget this before you head to CBP:

The Phillies have announced "Need Help?" – a new text service that connects fans immediately to game-day staff when emergency assistance is needed during home games at Citizens Bank Park.

"We are pleased to provide 'Need Help?' to our fans," said Sal DeAngelis, Manager, Phillies Ballpark Operations/Security. "This prompt text service will allow the Phillies to respond even quicker to any unforeseen medical, security or cleaning issue that may occur throughout the season."

* Text the word "PHILLIES" , with issue and location to 69050.
* The Phillies will automatically respond with a text, notifying the fan that the message was received and how they will respond.
* Fans are encouraged to save this short code to their cell phones.

****The best solution would be an electronic system that tracks who bought the ticket by credit card and email that's tied to a reward/reputation system to incentivize fans to behave. In the 21st century we have the tools to make these changes, but franchises lack the willingness to go that far.****

That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Yeah, I want a private organization to track my drinking like that...give me a freaking break.

I think the guy said in his post to enforce--give out tickets in the parking lot to people drinking there. I think doing those things in tandem will work. It will really cut down on the problems and you wont have to worry about stepping in urine and driving around empty beer bottles wehn you come back to yoru car after the game. Raising the price on beer will help, if it buys 3 beers less its a good thing-- let it subsidize the cost of water and soda.

MG: I'm with you.

On Baez:

I don't know if he had ants in his pants or DITHL. He just seemed like he had no control at all yesterday (he missed badly on the Dunn & Zimmerman pitches) and tried to throw his fastball by hitters. Only used curveball sparingly.

With Madson as the closer, the Phils don't have an 'ideal setup' man by any stretch. Likely going to require Cholly to mix & match this season but we all know that Cholly loves the formulaic 7-8-9 schema in the bullpen whenever possible. He isn't going to suddenly mix/max Durbin & Contreras & Baez. It is Baez's job to lose in the early going here. If Durbin continues to pitch really well though, Baez just might lose in in a few more weeks.

The parking lot between CBP and The Linc (Lot K) is designated for tailgating. It should not be happening in any other parking lots. It is a disaster after every game, and even worse after playoff games.

My idea of a nightmare scenario in about 3 years most of the core of the phillies is gone, they are rebuilding, ticket prices average about $75 a piece and families think "eagles crowd" when they think of a phils game and attendance drops in half into the 20,000 mark. Hopefully we arent headed there but it could happen.

Use Contreras as a setup guy then...he seems to have the stuff/control for it.

Man, I thought for sure the Phils were going to come back in the 9th. Even though they fell short, I love their fight.

The Nats broadcasters (local network at my house) said that Phils fans were starting to file out of the ballpark after the Baez meltdown... the camera never showed it and I don't believe it. Why would our fans leave only down 3 runs? I cal BS. We know better than that.

the reason why the bullpen blew up is because yesterday KK shot them all in the foot. then they score only half the runs they did yesterday. manuel seriously needs to consider A KK demotion.... other wise it will be a bullpen destruction.

Speaking of Pedro, where was he yesterday for the ring ceremony? He would have received a louder ovation than anyone had he been there. As it was, the pregame stuff was flat and unmemorable.

"I think we can all agree that California baseball fans are the worst"

Umm, no. I have seen some brutal stuff at Shea and Yankee Stadium, and if you are talking about other sports as well, ever been to an Eagles game?

And I agree that if Lee was still with the Phils, the injury most likely would not have occurred.

"As it was, the pregame stuff was flat and unmemorable.

Because you were sober. ;-)

On drinking:

- CBP actually has more security and I have noticed less monkey business in the stadium than at the Vet particularly in the upper levels.

The biggest difference seems to be after the game. You have more people who are younger coming to games that drink alot more. Makes for a bit of a mess in the parking lot with broken bottles & drunk people in a hurry to get out a really crowded parking lot. Not a good combo.

2 years ago, a younger kid told my uncle & his friend to "Go f@ck himself" and other obscenities when he almost hit him in a parking lot at the Linc driving across the lot in a random fashion. Wasn't a good move since uncle's friend was a Philly cop who pulled out his shield & eventually arrested him for a DUI.

NEPP - you didn't read what I said. Not tracking who bought the beer, but who bought the ticket. So that if you got kicked out or did something totally stupid, you'd be unable to get tickets. That way, they could create some system of incentives for people to behave. The dumbest idea is trying to curtail drinking because you can't. My point is that they need to punish people who throw up on girls for fun, and also do something to prevent people like that from getting into the stadium in the first place.

Obviously people can get around anything. They can smuggle beer in, they can scalp in the lot, and they can probably sneak into the stadium. But incentives are powerful things and I think the technology exists to do something a bit unconventional and make the ballpark the place it should be.

Oh...okay, yeah that might work. Of course, lots of people buy their tickets off others and this wuold then screw over the original purchaser.

Yeah...and then we could discourage scalping to young kids with fake ID's and 12 shots in them.

I was thinking more of places like Stubhub...

Cliff: they were filing out after Rodriguez's 2-run single off Madson in the ninth, but not in the 8th.

By the way, there was another incident yesterday I haven't seen reported anywhere: after Scott Olson was banished from the game, apparently someone threw something into the Nationals' dugout and several Nat players were turned to face the crowd, led by Livan Hernandez. One of the players emptied a cup of water into the seats behind the dugout. Who knows, it might have fired them up some.

That's true.

But, I bet there is a solution related to the barcode on the ticket. I don't know exactly, but I bet with some research teams could come up with some interesting solutions.

Anyway, who has a prediction on the Flyers game tonight?

NEPP: Well, it's sort of a deterrent to reselling your ticket to people you don't know or don't know well. As a corporate marketer, we've had some issues in the past with unruly clients in our old suite (which we no longer have) at the Wachovia. It was a bad reflection on the company and we had to be more vigilant with invites/supervision of said attendees.

****Anyway, who has a prediction on the Flyers game tonight?****


Pain for which fanbase? I'm hoping it's pain for the Devils fans...if they even bother to show up.

Here's a crazy idea: if a fan is unruly, kick him out of the stadium and prosecute him for disorderly conduct. You don't need any surveillance system to do that.

99% of the time, the best solution to a problem is to enforce the solution that already exists.

In that last post, I was originally going to write that fans should be kicked out if they behave "unruly." But then I realized that unruly is an adjective, not an adverb. So would the adverb form be "unrulily?" Does such a word even exist in the English language?

Exactly what bap said. This crap doesnt really happen all that often (hence all the news coverage of it). When it does, they tend to be prosecuted like this idiot is gonna be.

Its kinda like airport security...only the bad news gets any play on it...totally ignoring that 99.99% of all passengers are successfully screened with no issues and that flying is by far the safest form of transportation in existence.

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EST. 2005

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