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Tuesday, March 09, 2010


Gotta be Drabek. Good young pitching is the priciest commodity in baseball.


Hmmm....."regret" is a funny thing.

Being that when we look into our dugout we will see Roy Halladay sitting there for the next 4, but most likely 5 seasons. Also, the fact that he signed for under market vallue, I think the correct answer is "None of the above".

Now, if you want to ask "Who do you think the Phillies wish they still had on the team?" then that is completely different.

And I think the answer to that question is Drabek.

Michael Taylor - next year when our best RH is Victorino switch hitting.

I voted Drabek, but thephaithful makes a heck of a point.

They all have HoF written all over their futures.

Cliff Lee

I keeeed, I keeeed.

Obviously a biased poll. I really wanted to vote for Vic Darensbourg.

When do we get to vote for who the Yankees will miss most in that Carlos Monasterios deal?

Isn't it the Jesus Sanchez deal?

I voted D'Arnaud. Who's our third catcher again?

Equal on Drabek and Taylor.

How about "The Babe" aka Burrell! Too bad he can't play anymore in the field (or bat for that matter). Look at these quotes that he stated the other day:

“I don’t know if there is any way of saying this without getting myself in trouble, but there is definitely a different excitement level [in Philadelphia]. I think more than anything, there is a stronger tradition for baseball there. That goes without saying.”

“You talk to a lot of players and certain players don’t like to play in Philly, certain guys love it and I was one of the guys that really enjoyed it. I probably saw the full parameter of the good and the bad. But at all times you knew that people cared. They want you to win and they come out and support you. I’m not sure enough players appreciate that because there aren’t many places like it. You have Chicago, New York, and places like that, but I think it’s the minority.”

Who voted for Donald? Family relative/spouse/close friend?

Burrell? In what bizarro world is Burrell considered a prospect still? Not to mention that he was long gone before either deal went down.

DooHickey: What? I mentioned Burrell because of the quotes I read about him.

Doohickey doing the old BLer "jump the gun by not reading the whole post just to rip into someone" trick.

I am merely excited that "The Babe" would say those things about us while in the same quote basically calling the Ray fans bandwagon jumpers.

just a hunch, but i'd think Burrell wouldn't have loved philly so much if he accepted that 2yr/$22mil offer and put up the same numbers as he did in Tampa last year.

I narrowed it down to Drabek - pitching is always at a premium - D'Arnaud - ditto for catchers, especially for Phillies - and Taylor, who would look nice pushing for Werth's spot next year. Then, I decided to just pick the one that, right now, I would project as being most likely to have the best major league career - Taylor. IN other words, I just guessed. Very scientific poll.

Joe Nathan may miss the entire season with the torn ligament.

That is a shame for the Twinkies....

Didn't the Phillies go after him but opted to sign Gordon instead?

I think it will be Taylor. Sure pitching is a premium talent, but much can go wrong, and Drabek's had some health problems already.

Hugh - Read up on emergence. It doesn't need to be scientific. I you ask enough people the right question, the cumulative answer will be the right one.

If you could guarantee Drabek would reach his potential and stay healthy, he'd have to be the choice. Even if he tops out as a #2 starter, that's incredibly valuable.

However, I think Taylor's the choice. Even if he doesn't have superstar potential, he's a safe bet to be a .280/.350/.450 type of hitter, and would have looked great in RF and hitting 6th next year...

thephaithful - They would have booed Burrell with a passion by June last season if he had put up the same numbers here he did in TB.

Philly is in many aspects (especially in regards to sports) is exactly what JRoll said it was "What have you done for me lately" town.

Pat's just pissed that the 20-something girls inhabiting Tampa area bars dont give a damn about who he is...whereas any girl in a Philly bar was ready to get with him in the washroom.

NEPP: Good one.

Pat was pretty incredible in that department. But he can't hold a candle to some of the players that are on our sports teams now. Seeing them in action is pure entertainment.

Pat Burrell once stole my cousin's girlfriend at a bar in S. Philly. My cousin still hates him because of it. Though, if your GF is gonna go bang Pat Burrell, maybe she wasn't the one...

Burrell was a "machine" in more ways than one...Though I hear Werth and Vic are quite "popular" at those same establishments these days.

Here's a good story on KK from

Interesting Quote:
"The speed with which Kendrick has remodeled his game has impressed the Phillies. After losing his spot in the rotation late in 2008 and spending most of last season at Triple A Lehigh Valley, Kendrick suddenly has two solid offspeed pitches to offset his sinker, which in 2008 he threw 75 percent of the time."

Honestly, I will be the first one to say I was wrong if and when Kendrick turns into a reliable 4/5 starter. I really hope it happens as we could use that type of stability/presence at the bottom of the rotation.

I just hope Rube doesnt do something stupid like trade KK for this year's Paulino/Traschner late spring move and keep Moyer thanks to his huge salary.

Keep both, both will be needed this year anyway and go from there.

NEPP: The Phillies can't hold a candle to the young Flyers in that department.

****The Phillies can't hold a candle to the young Flyers in that department.****

Not surprising...they're more of the same age group of the groupie girls anyway.

And most of them live in Olde City, so they don't have to go far. Many of them are also unmarried, so IMHO, it's more acceptable to be the dogs they are.

HH: Bingo. That was exactly who I am mainly talking about in my post above.

Not going to mention specific names, but I have seen personally about 7 of them out and about various times and they like to have a good time to say the least.

(But some of our beloved Phillies and Eagles are the same way. But not nearly as bad as the younger Flyers are/used to be)

Taylor hands down for me. Drabek 2nd

NEPP - Until Kendrick posts something higher than his lifetime GO/AO of 1.32, I suggest that you should always put "sinker" in quotes. Like this: "sinker."

The fact that he does not generate a very excessinve amount of groundballs is the fallacy in the second argument many offer about his k/9. IT is not his K/9 that is the problem, per se, but the reality that successful "pitch to contact" pitchers get a lot of ground balls. I sincerely hope that he does better - as he did in a very small sample size in 2009. I wait to be astounded.

Until then, however, he throws a "sinker."

We could just switch it to 2-seamer...then it is accurate without wondering about its actual sink.

HH: They also have Al Morganti to pimp for them. He uses Wingettes the way the CIA uses third party nationals as his intelligence assets for NHL skinny...

MPN: Doesn't surprise me. Morganti has been close to the guys he writes about for years--saw a retro on Lindbergh where Morganti talked about how he and his wife used to hang with Pelle and his girl and how crushed he was when he died. There was even a photo of the four of them and I couldn't believe Al ever looked young. These writers don't age particularly well; ever notice that?

I will say this in Morganti's defense:

- Had the chance to meet him twice and he is a pretty down-to-earth and friendly guy. He also works a hell alot. His gig at WIP in the mornings is rest just a small part of his daily work schedule usually.

MG: Don't take what I said as a knock on Al--quite the contrary--I love him and he's about the only reason to listen to WIP in the AM. Really knows his hockey and breaks down film as well as any professional. I think him being down to earth great guy is what causes some of his writing subjects to take a bit of an advantage of him (as if being hot, young, and loaded with money isn't enough of an aphrodisiac).

MG: No doubt he is a nice guy I've met him and had drinks with him before. It's more a statement about the Bud Fox approach that news gatherers have to take sometimes to get scoops.

"Philly is in many aspects (especially in regards to sports) is exactly what JRoll said it was "What have you done for me lately" town."

Ah yes, but unlike most cities not named New York, we show up to boo. Also unlike most of our West Coast friends, we tend to actually pay attention to and understand the game.

Besides, any city that can put up with Donovon McNabb for this long should be crowned as having the most patient and tolerant fans in the history of American sports.

Andy: Or you could say that he needs to cut down on his LD%. His LD% in 2007, when he was successful, was 21.1%. It soared to 27% the next season, when he was quite hittable. Last year, when he was successful in a small sample, it fell back to 22%.

I'm not obsessed with the kinds of outs he gets and, unlike Beerleaguer's "experts," I don't bleieve you must have a certain K/9 to succeeed. The fact is, he's needed an out-pitch vs. LH ever since he made The Show. Maybe his new cutter/slider will be that pitch. Whether that leads to more GO or FO or a higher K/9 is irrelevant as long as it leads to more outs vs. LH.

William: Well written. That pretty much sums it up.

William Schweitzer: You just summed up exactly what is wrong with Philadelphia fans. Most cities who have had a top-5 or top-10 QB on their perennial playoff team for 10 years respect what he's done for their team and city. You think "putting up with him" (which evidently includes chanting We Want Detmer, We Want Feeley, We Want Garcia, We Want Kolb, etc. upon a couple of bad games) is a testament to the greatness of Philadelphia sports fans.

"Ah yes, but unlike most cities not named New York, we show up to boo."

Another statement that is largely myth. Sixers are a bad team (but not the worst) and their attendance is among the worst in the league. Even when they historically have been good, there attendance generally has been mediocre.

Phils have had long stretches of being bad and no one shows up either. That has changed a bit since CBP opened but the Phils generally have been a good/very good team since CBP did open.

Same claims from Flyers/Eagles fans. Both of those franchises may not have won a championship in the past 25 years but they have generally been pretty successful in terms of getting to postseason and having some degree of success. Both teams haven't really enjoyed any kind of prolonged down periods and when they did the Eagles' did in mid-80s & end of 90s with Rhodes the fans didn't necessarily show up.

Philly is a good sports town but the fans here act for the most part like fans in other cities - if you put out a mediocre/poor product you will have trouble competing for entertainment dollars especially if you through a prolonged down period.

DH Phils: You obviously don't live here with a post like that.

I guess us Eagle fans should be happy that McNabb is 1-4 in NFC championship games.

Nothing like a Phillies blog/thread getting taken over by other Philadelphia sports banter.

Love it!

DH Phils: Not all Philadelphia fans boo McNabb or want him gone, but unfortunately, these are the very vocal minority. I am sick of reading about them in the national press. They (and their lord and master, WIP) can all go take a long walk off of a short pier.

HH: To be fair. That argument isn't WIP's fault. I have seen numerous polls and talked to season ticket holder friends of mine.

The general conclusion is that most people DO want McNabb gone and Kolb to take over.

However, with that said McNabb is at least consistant in that he consistantly loses NFC Championship games.

When I was growing up in the 1990s, the Eagles were absolutely awful. As a result, I can appreciate a 10-year period with 8 playoff appearances and 5 NFC championship game appearances. The McNabb Era has been the best in franchise history.

I appreciate McNabb because I am capable of nuance, unlike the WIP crowd who claims that if they don't win the Super Bowl, the season is a failure.

why am i not surprised mvptommyd is a donny hater?

Is dnabb's Smile on the Sideline (SOTS) ratio too high to play QB?

From 1937 to 1999, the Eagles won 9 playoff games.

Since then, they have won 10 (9 by McNabb).

Clearly, he chokes in big games.

Thephaithful: Nah, not the smiles. But the 1-5 in NFC championship/SB games, the inability to throw to a player in stride, the inability to throw consistantly about the receiver's ankles, etc.

That is what gets me.

But why am I not surprised BLers like McNabb?

Stats are nice and pretty(due to the 6-8 dumps passes he throws a game by the way), but results not so much.

I'm both a McNabb phan, and someone who is ready to see him go. He shouldn't shoulder the blame for the Birds' falling short the last 10 years, but he's not above blame. Time to try something different.

I have more issue with the coaching most game days than the QB. But whatever, that's not going to change and this is a baseball board.

Tyler Walker is getting absolutely hammered by the Tigers. And yes, he is indeed sweating profusely.

bedbeard: my exact thoughts.

Maybe it has something to do with Reid's terrible play calling and clock management...two fatal weaknesses that become magnified in a playoff game.

~Again, not an Eagles fan but that what I notice when watching~

tommy: why do you refer to me as a Beerleaguer? I am one poster who made a comment directly to you. Saying that 'BLers' like Mcnabb is idiotic since you are posting on the same exact site as I am and saying you don't like McNabb. So how could you say 'BLers like McNabb' if you are a BLer and you dont like mcnabb?

You and clout are the two posters who consitently refer to a poster or posters as "beerleaguers" and somehow exclude yourself from that same statement. And I wonder why the majority of people get frustrated and insult the two of you more than others.

NEPP: You are so right on the money. He is an absolutely horrible in-game manager, which is why they almost always fail in close games (what most playoff games are). McNabb should shoulder some of the blame for his inaccuracy (and seeming unwillingness to correct per sources I've seen), but Reid's stubborn reluctance to call anything other than pass plays and failure to run a HU offense...just grrrrr.

mine, too, bedbeard. I wonder if Buffalo fans felt the same way about Jim Kelly?

Last I checked, the thermometer is pushing 50+, the sun is rising higher in teh sky every day, and there is no meaningful football in sight for many moons. Why is anyone talking about Don McNabb?

Anybody see the pitching probables for tonight? Time for Halladay to throw again?

hh: also my exact thoughts.

Clout (or others), what is %LD? Just curious.


"Most cities who have had a top-5 or top-10 QB on their perennial playoff team for 10 years respect what he's done for their team and city."

...and many of them have won at least one Super Bowl in franchise history.

Seriously, with the money that it costs to go to a game, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a winner. The "fairweather" comment by Jimmy was nonsense.

If you patronize any other business, you expect them to live up to your expectations or you spend your money elsewhere? If a director makes three unenjoyable films, do you go to see his fourth film so that one of his co-stars doesn't mock you for being a "front runner"?

Have they improved since the 80s and 90s? Sure, but it'd be pretty damn hard for them to have gotten worse. Brittney Spears' new music is better than her 90's albums, but I'm still not buying them.

Generally speaking, successful businesses and entertainment ventures make money and unsuccessful ones do not. In franchise history, the Eagles have only been successful enough to have the opportunity to lose the big game, and yet they still make millions and command the attention of the city.

So yeah, I'd say Philly is pretty charitable.

spitz: Line Drive %.

High LD% usually causes a rise in all pitching peripherials except for K/BB.

"The "fairweather" comment by Jimmy was nonsense." - BS

If Burrell had been resigned and put up the same numbers he had in TB, my bet is that he would have been booed and on a frequent basis by June. Hell, look at all of the crap that Hamels took last year and Lidge was getting booed & loudly by last August in home games.

The WS title bought about half a season of 'good will' from the fans and some of the key contributors including JRoll & Lidge both got booed regularly and loudly at times during the year last season.

Base case though had to be Howard in '07. He did come into camp out of shape and got out to a really slow start but he started to get booed regularly in May after a slow start. That coming off arguably the greatest season by a Phils' hitter ever.

I assume Burrell heard many boos during his time in Philly and, especially in '03.

Hamels took a lot of crap on WIP but I didn't hear him get any crap at the actual stadium and if there was a lot of booing directed at Lidge last season, I (and he) didn't hear it. He even said the fans were great to him last year through it all.

Yes, Philly fans can be fairweather, but I didn't see them out last year at all. They largely gave everyone a free ride post-championship. I seem to recall Werth saying the fans went a little soft and he wanted them to toughen up for the playoffs.

Thanks Phaithful.

MG, I think you can take the "arguably" out of our last statement. 313/58/149!

I remember Jimmy playing like a dog for the first half of 2009. I went to a lot of games last season, and not once did I hear him get booed.

Maybe that's not as credible as your hypothetical guess of how a Tampa Bay Ray might have fared had he been a Philly in 2009? As for Lidge, I only heard boos in games AFTER poor results. I've never heard proactive boos as soon as he comes out of the pen...not even in September.

The bleeding heart Philly fans who feel that nothing should ever be booed for the fear of the city's reputation is just as ridiculous as J-Roll's comment.

Seriously, a convent of nuns would have booed Lidge last year. Enough of the kids stuff. Fans boo. That's life. Get over it.

I tend to believe that just about every city's fans can be described as "fair weather".

DoubleH: I was at the WS game 3, and was almost sickened when I heard some people boo him after he was pulled.

Hugh: Halladay is pitching tonight. Not sure who's tossing for the Braves. Given that he went 2 innings last time, I'd expect 3 out of Halladay tonight, unless they go very short or very long. Probably something like 50-55 pitches.

WS - Yes fans do boo and I don't mind if they boo over a poor performance at times. Your missing the point of what I was stating.

The games I went to last June and JRoll was getting booed when he was getting called up at his first AB. Part of that was getting benched but still.

I would agree with you about Lidge. He generally wasn't booed coming out of the pen. It was only after he struggled.

My point is that (and having lived in a few different places) is that Philly fans are incredibly tough, fickle, and ready to boo a guy if he struggles even if he was dominant the year before or earlier in the season. You could make the same argument for several cities in the US but Philly is a "what have you done for me lately town" from a sports perspective.

1-5? People tend to throw that number around a lot hmm. Let's see. St Louis : basically a rookie no receivers playing well above his head staley hurt buck gets hurt right before half. But yes absolutely mcnabbs fault. Tampa bay: 5 weeks or so removed from a broken ankle . Levon Kirkland in the middle and a gimped blain bishop. Still did throw a huge pick but not 100% donno. Carolina: late hit before half knocks him out of the game with the score close. Westbrook already injured. Detmer finishes the whole second half. Doesn't count. Atlanta : plays really well no TO. Eagles win. Great game Chad Lewis breaks his ankle though. ( I think that hurt us in the sb more than people think mcnabb really loved throwing to him). Az : this was simply a defensive let down. Mcnabb did make it close second half but honestly we weren't going to win a shootout against that team. And that's exactly what happened.

Mcnabb has not been historically bad in NFC chpionship games. He's been mediocre to good actually. For historically bad in playoff games that matter look up saint favre playoff stats over the last decade. That is a house of horrors.

That being said mcnabb will be 34. If it's time to
move on that's fine. But we haven't exactly. " put up with him ".

In other news how bout them phillies.

"I tend to believe that just about every city's fans can be described as "fair weather".

Posted by: Bedrosian's Beard"

Here's and example of those "nice" non-fairweather" fans in Cleveland:

2009 Attendance: 1,766,242

1999 Attendance 3,468,456

Yep, not fairweathered at all.

Oh, and BedBeard, that meant that I agree.




So, I was watching the Flyers earlier and...

awh: Yeah, I tried to talk about Halladay's start tonight and couldn't get anything going. So I'll come back later once WIP has turned off here.

Jack, Thanks for filling me in. I'll finally get to see some spring training action tonight. Unless, of course, I decide to watch the Flyers . . .

On the topic of the thread, this is from Verducci's latest at

""• In the 2007 draft, the Toronto Blue Jays already had filled out their card to take catcher Travis D'Arnaud with the 38th overall pick -- only 17 picks after drafting another catcher, J.P. Arencibia. But Philadelphia, with the 37th pick, took D'Arnaud, and Toronto drafted pitcher Brett Cecil instead. The Blue Jays wound up getting D'Arnaud two years later -- in the Roy Halladay deal.

Toronto, by the way, is thrilled with Kyle Drabek, the key piece back in that trade. Drabek, wearing number 4, has come as advertised: He has shown a wipeout curveball, mid-90s fastball and trademark competitiveness. He won't make the Opening Day rotation, but he is not far off.""


awh: The coolest past of that is Drabek wearing number 4. Does that make him the lowest numbered pitcher in the bigs? Omar Oliveras wore 00, but that was really his initials so shouldn't count as a number. Christy Mathewson was "Big 6" (nicknamed for a locomotive) and might've worn that number had he not retired before players wore numbers.

Clout, Wayne Gomes used to wear #2 on the Giants. I think he was a different number with our Phils though

Josh Towers wore #7 in 2007 with Toronto as well.

7 is greater than 4.

6 is greater than 4 as well.

I thought of the Philly fans reputation again a couple weeks ago when I heard the Lakers (sorry, different sport) getting booed at home. In a game they'd go onto win. And Lakers fans can't complain their team never wins the title.

LA fans have long been known to be classless.

How many riots have there been after Laker championships.

Of course, the idiots who partied and then went on a rampage in Center City after the Phils won in 2008 are no better.

Still, the scale was quite different.

Also, Dodger fans aren't exactly known for being the most hospitable to other team's fans when their in Chavez Ravine.

Bottom line, there are jerks in every team's fan base.

No game chat??

Anyway, 1 batter and 1 K for Halladay.

Hopefully we see him for 2 innings tonight

There goes the no hitter.

Anyone know how many pitches that was for Halladay? I'd expect him to go somewhere between 50-60 tonight, so depending on next inning that's either 2 or 3 innings.

Nice to see him strike out the side. This Braves lineup isn't bad at all--I certainly expect them to keep it decently close in the NL East throughout the season. They should be expecting to win 85+ games.



New Braves announcers, even worse than the old ones.

Where did Werth hit the homer?

Brett: Right Field

For some reason I was hoping to hear that! Thanks, I don't have the HD channels right now so I'm stuck checking box scores for preseason games.

this dude is sick.

Madson getting hit around. 3-2 bad guys with 1 out.

Sac Fly & Walk 2 outs braves at the corners 4-2

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