Part of

« Move over Moyer: There's a new mentor in town | Main | Phillies catcher Dane Sardinha charged with DUI »

Monday, February 22, 2010


So, what happens if Kendrick is pitching in top form and Moyer is his mediocre self or worse?

End of last thread:

"when most fans need to read the next day's newspaper be told what went wrong."

Unikruk, give MOST fans more credit than that.

I watch most the home games at the ballpark and a bunch of their away games at sports bars around the area. Trust me most fans there criticize Charlie about moves when they are about to happen and directly after.

BLer is a great spot for game chats, but don't act like fans that aren't here don't know what they are watching because your wrong.

Also, only on BLer when the Phillies lose 2 in a row, do you see "Season=Over" posts and extreme criticism listing ways that Rube screwed up the offseason. If any reason, THAT is what makes BLer special.

They aren't just going to have Moyer sit on the bench for $8 million. My opinion is, if he's better than lousy, he'll be the 5th starter. I'd hope it would go to whoever does best. It's encouraging to here Kendrick is working hard but he still needs to face batters. But I hope the best one wins.

I hope Kendrick plays his way into the 5th, since he can serve in that role for a few more years, while this is certainly Moyer's last one.

CHoP in the hated Yankees pinstripes!!!?? I guess he will no longer be fondly remembered on this site!

Season=Over! Before it even started

Chan Ho should have signed with the Phils, and of course I'm sorry to see him as a "Damn Yankee" - but I'll be a lot sorrier to see Lee or Werth play for them, should that end up happening.

I guess CHoP is just collecting uniforms from as many MLB teams as possbile now?

"Technically, the Phillies won’t need a fifth starter until late April, which plays in Jamie Moyer’s favor."

Technically, sure. Realistically? No. Charlie has never gone long stretches with only 3 or 4 starters.

Last season we only had 3 starters in the 1st cycle to start the season but that was only because the Phillies had 2 off days the first week of the season. Followed by another 2 off days the second week. After that first 3 man cycle, Charlie went directly to a 5 man rotation right away, even with the 2 off days in a row due to the postponed game.

This season, we have 1 day off the first week and only 1 more the second week. I would expect to not see a short rotation. If anything he may spot start someone for a game.

So that means that Cole will our Opening Day starter on April 12th. So that means Mr. Halladay's first start here to be April 17th against the Marlins.

Regarding CHoP, good for him that he found a job enven though it is well shy of what he wanted.

The truth is that we are 3-4 days INTO Spring Training. Chan Ho knew that teams simply weren't interested anymore overall. It was between the Cubs and Yanks. The Cubs backed out over the weekend, so the Yankees were the only team left for him.

Therefore, he was forced to take their offer if he wanted a job to start the year. I know this entire thread is going to be Anti-Rube for not holding out and signing him back for the same price. But that wouldn't have happened.

Yeah, we'd already signed Contreras and Baez for the bullpen to replace Condrey and Park. That option was closed.

5th starter competition = over

Looks like Chopper overplayed his hand.

Chopper is this season's pitching equivalent of Johnny Damon: the best offer was the first one and he turned it down.

Too bad for him, but he may make it back to the WS.

KK is going to have to show he can get lefties out at a better rate than in the past if he's going to win the 5th spot. Otherwise, he's a ROOGY. The league is loaded with starting pitchers who have lopsided splits, but .919 OPS is over the limit.

How stupid does that Moyer deal look now? If he only had a 1 year deal, would we still have Lee? Who else was offering 2 years to a guy who was 45 at the time?

I like Moyer, but if he wins more than 5 games this year as a starter, I'm shocked. If he's a starter, it will only be because Cholly won't pick the younger, better player over the veteran, pedro notwithstanding.

Coulda & shoulda stayed, but I have a good feeling about Contreras. CHoP won't have three good years in a row.

"They aren't just going to have Moyer sit on the bench for $8 million."

They paid Adam Eaton about that much to just go away. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't let Moyer sit if his performance dictates it.

Park Chan Ho in New York City. It isn't LA but the next best ciy for the worldwide Korean population.

I agree with the poster from several threads ago who said Park wasn't coming back no matter what because Charlie thought he was soft. But it will be interesting to compare his stats at season's end to Baez's.

"KK is going to have to show he can get lefties out at a better rate than in the past if he's going to win the 5th spot. Otherwise, he's a ROOGY. The league is loaded with starting pitchers who have lopsided splits, but .919 OPS is over the limit.

Posted by: clout "

Gosh. Where have I heard that before?

Werth look'n for Doobie?

Wow, Jayson Werth looks like he's been hibernating for the winter.

Andy: From me. In 2008. You could look it up. In fact, look up my posts on the same subject in 2007. You're a newbie on this issue.

WOW! Manny Ramirez says it's his last year with the Dodgers.

Who'da thunk?

This Werth picture is amazing:

He must have holed up in his house for the last month growing it out, because I don't see how he could wear that beard in public and keep it a secret.

DanO: i really don't think Moyer's contract would make a difference in keeping Lee. It wasn't a one season decision it was a multiple season decision and Moyer is only signed for this season. Halladay was willing to take a "discount" to pitch here and the Phillies believed Lee would not.

On another front Jason Stark blogs on whether Sanatana is better than Halladay. He says the numbers lean towards Santana (i viewed the blog thru ESPN MVP so i couldn't see the numbers) but the caveat is Halladay had to face the AL East as opposed to the AL Central and NL East. And he shows that overwhelmingly Halladay has had more success against the Yankees than any other human on earth.

Neyer had a blog post on Friday (I think), that stated that Halladay is indisputably better, and it's not really that close.

You can cut the numbers up any way you want to make your case for either guy.

I can't imagine Chan Ho staying in the Yank's starting rotation for too long if he pitches for them like he did here as a starter last season. Forget last year's ST battle, where he was awesome as a starter, he is best suited for the BP. It must be his Korean pride factor that won't allow him to accept that fact.

IMO, Money-wise, he obviously should have selected better from the the off-season menu, going with the first choice (Phils Offer #1), instead of settling for the Yanks (#2) offer.

1) Mo Mo-Nee

2) Pee Yu Platter

Of course if the Yanks repeat, it might be worth half the pay for him. I hope we are all saying how NOT signing him turned out to be a great move by the Phils. This is one they can't be faulted for being cheap.

#3 (Won Dum Ho),

Did anyone else watch the Sunday conversation with Cliff Lee on ESPN? In it he states that the Phills made him an offer and the next day he and his agent submitted a counter offer and he was traded that day.

It was interesting to watch and I clearly got the impression that he wanted to be a Phillie.

Rev, I saw that too.

But what Lee said can't possibly be true because clout said that didn't happen.

Is it March 4th yet?

Cliff Lee: WAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Everyone else on Earth: Shut up and get over it.

That beard is awesome...Jayson looks like he went on tour with Dave Matthews and smoked pot all winter.

I'm guessing the reality isn't too far off the mark.

Good news from Scott Lauber:

"Several pitchers have remarked that Brad Lidge looked good, presumably better than they expected."

Of course, we won't know for sure until games are actually on the line. Still, it's good to read that.

I think Werth looks better in full beard than he does wearing that Apolo Ohno soul patch Brazilian cut on his chin.

I'm sure we'll be reading how the added weight of a full beard will affect Werth's swing.

Chopper continues his "If he can't beat 'em, join 'em" trend. Whoever eliminates the Yankees this post-season might as well sign him on the spot.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more comment on this:

"That would be nice. And I'd like to stick it up their rear end. Just because, you know?" Myers said happily. "It's just the competitive nature. It's my old team. And I want to beat 'em. I think every guy has incentive to beat his former team. It doesn't have anything to do really with the way they treated me or anything like that. They didn't treat me bad at all. It doesn't have anything to do with that. It just has to do with being competitive and trying to kick their rear end just for the sport of it and try to have fun with it."

On the day he was formally introduced at a news conference in Houston he made similar comments. It got back to him that his remarks were not well-received in Philadelphia.

"If anybody takes that wrong I'm sorry, but that's not the way it's supposed to be meant," he said. "It's supposed to be meant that I want to kick their rear end. And they expect that. I told Ruben that. Whoever I sign with after this, if I pitch against y'all, the old movie, "Major League," my favorite one. You take the ball and fire it off the locker and go, 'Every time I pitch against you I'm going to stick it up your bleepin' bleep.' You know?

"I've always wanted to say that to somebody. In a funny way, though. Because I would think they'd know what I was talking about. I thought that would be funny. But evidently they took it the wrong way up there. People were calling me and saying, 'Why did you say bad things about the city of Philly?' I said, 'I never did and I never will.' "

The beard could get him a couple more HBP's.

Good for Brett Myers on turning the page the right way. I am looking forward to seeing him try to get through the Phils' lineup multiple times.

When Myers isn't playing the Phills I will root for him. I know he is a head case but I always liked him.
Also some time in the California Penal League might have done him some good, it worked for Ricky Vaughn!

clout: Good for Myers. If he were on my team, I would love his fire. Sure he made a few mistakes in his personal life while here, but anyone who hasn't can speak bad about him.

When they come here August 23rd-26th I hope he is pitching and would love to see the "Big Red Wrecking Crew" go head-to-head. A Blanton-Myers match up would be incredible.

I have no personal issues with Bretty. He was a bastard but he was our bastard so it was okay.

That said, I hope he doesn't make it out of the 1st against us.

Speaking of facial hair, does CHoP have to shave his beard to play for the Yankees? A double indignity. Should have signed with the Cubs (assuming, as he implied, that their offer was still in play)

Personally, if I were a free agent and it was down to the Cubs or Yankees, I'd take the Yankees no question...just on the basis of trying to get a WS ring.

If you have some free time, head over to PhuturePhillies. James has his Top 30 up and its quite in depth.

Great read though...and tons of video links for the prospects.

i mean i hate them but if i was a player i'd pick the Yankees no question. the cubs are a disaster and will continue to be until a few years after all those bloated contracts are off the books.

Werth picture - No rain out photo for Beeleaguer?

Frankly I wish the entire team would grow beards although there are several guys could pull it off including Vic, Hamels, and Blanton.

Can someone please explain how the Phillies won’t need a fifth starter until late April?

According to the schedule I'm looking at, if we have a 4-man rotation (assuming Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Happ) it would break down this way:

4/5 Halladay
4/7 Hamels
4/8 Blanton
4/9 Happ
4/10 Halladay (4 days)
4/11 Hamels (3 days)
4/12 Blanton (3 days)
4/14 Happ (4 days)
4/15 Halladay (4 days)
4/16 Hamels (3 days)
4/17 Blanton (4 days)
4/18 Happ (3 days)

It seems to me that we need a 5th starter as early as 4/11. Am I missing something?

Krukker: Exactly right about your point regarding us not needing a 5th starter. That idea is absurd because Charlie isn't a fan of using a short rotation for a long stretch of time. The pitching rotation will more than likely look like this:

4/5 Halladay
4/7 Hamels
4/8 Blanton
4/9 Happ
4/10 Moyer/KK
4/11 Halladay (5 Days)
4/12 Hamels :OPENING DAY: (4 days)
4/14 Blanton (5 days)
4/15 Happ (5 days)
4/16 Moyer/KK :Spot Start Alert: (5 days)
4/17 Halladay :First home Start: (5 days)
4/18 Hamels (5 days)

For Reference sake, here is last April's rotation:

4/5 Myers
4/7 Moyer
4/8 Blanton
4/10 Hamels
4/11 Myers (5 days)
4/12 Park
4/13 Moyer (5 days)
4/16 Blanton (7 days: Due to off day and rainout)

Then the rotation flowed throughout the rest of the month even with an occasional off day thrown in.

Jayson Werth trying to focus on this season despite every reporter asking him about next year and his contract situation. It's gotta be tough sometimes to field the same question asked over and over - and not let the speculation affect you.

He said it might be Davey Lopes' last season - Anyone read anything about this? Does Lopes want to retire, or to seek a job as a manager? I can't imagine the Phillies would not retain him if he is interested in continuing to coach.

Good catch Krukker. I must have miscounted and was running with this idea for a month or so ... Super.

The Zo Zone!

"Q: You want to steal more bases. Speed is a big part of your game. Do you worry the hair piece is going to slow you down?
A: I'm not wearing a hair piece.

Q: No, the beard.
A: No, I'm not worried about it.

Q: Will you taper down for the season?
A: I'm not sure.

Q: It's attractive.
A: Thank you."

I love beards as much as a man can, but this one makes me a bit uneasy. Reminds me too much of the gnome.

Werth looks like he could be the lead singer for a 70s throwback band.

That picture of Moyer looks like he was hanging out with Werth and Willie Nelson in the back of the bus.

"I think Werth looks better in full beard than he does wearing that Apolo Ohno soul patch Brazilian cut on his chin."

Oh, amen. I hated that thing. Don't like it on Ohno, either.

I briefly read a post on (sorry, no link) about how David Wright is bulked up over the winter and is taking hitting advice from Jeff Francouer. A Met fan commented, "When your best offensive threat is taking advice from Jeff Francouer, you know you're in trouble. 70 - 92 here we come."

"Hey Jeff, how do you manage to post that sparkling .311 OBP?"

"Well David, I basically swing at every and any pitch the pitcher throws."

"Hmm, I'm gonna try that."

Werth can wear his beard. Let's hope he doesn't start wearing beard beads like Hollywood's Brad Pitt!

Phargo, great hearing from you. I'm glad that we agree.

Werth's beard deserves, nay demands, that if the Phils play any throwback uni games this year they crack out the 1979 maroon/maroon "Saturday Night Specials."

JW, I said the same thing as Krukker during my post at 9:26 this morning (10th post of the thread). Oh well, I am not BLer Elite then I guess.

Zolecki was just on 610

He had 2 main points:

1. Expects Werth to be gone after this season due to Werth's comments regarding the subject today.

2. Thinks Polanco will be fine at 3rd, BUT not as good as Feliz.

Jamie Moyer is having a go at his best Sean Penn face in that picture.

tommy - Presumably, Zolecki means not as good defensively, right? Because, at the very least in 2010, Polanco will be leaps and bounds better offensively than Feliz.

Hey JW:

Notice me


The Werth beard makes me laugh everytime I see it.

re: tommylookatmei'mthemvp

the notion that a fifth starter will not be an issue until late April has been shot down every time it's come up this winter, i.e., about 20 times.

re: ftljohn - sean penn?
As in "That was my skull! I'm so wasted!"

Here's the Phuture Phillies link that NEPP referenced earlier. It's full of great stuff. Whether you agree or disagree with his assessments it's easy to see he devotes a lot of time and effort to it.

CJ: Clout will appear to disparage that prospect list shortly, I'm sure.

Obviously Werth wants to become a Viking.

Trying to predict the rotation for the rainy month of April is a complete waste of time.


DanO: "How stupid does that Moyer deal look now?"

It looks so stupid that it's not a stretch of the imagination to believe that considering his 2009 season, off-season surgeries, the economy and his age, that he might not have received a guaranteed 2010 contract."

I said after 2008 that the Phils would probably resign either Moyer or Burrell and regret whichever one they chose. I never understood the Moyer contract and still don't, especially after somebody in the FO (might have been Rube) mentioned how they shouldn't be giving out sentimental contracts. Well, you can slice it any damn way you want it, but that's exactly what they did. One year was bad enough, two was incredibly stupid. (And yes, I know we've been over this). And Cliff Lee or no Cliff Lee, that foolish move may have cost the team a hell of a lot more than $8 million.

Many thanks to the commenter who recommended the Phuture Phillies write-up. There's a lot of good info there and I'll be honest, some guys I've never heard of in our system.

Good stuff.

anyone watching the polanco interview on comcast? who the hell is on his shirt? chase?

Thanks for the link CJ.

Reading through all that it's good to know that there is some good talent left in the minors. Granted, not everyone on the list will amount to something but there are some people to be excited about and root for. We still have some decent pitching prospects and there is a good mix of speed and power still hovering in the minors.

Clearly, it's not as deep as it was prior to 2009 but the cupboard isn't necessarily bare.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel