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Monday, December 14, 2009


Seems like a good enough deal.

I'm surprised they didn't get at least some interest in Blanton.

(reposted from previous thread)

Someone mentioned Pat Gillick, and there's no doubt that it's more than a coincidence that Seattle and Toronto are involved here. Everyone wants to hand awards out to Amaro, and of course he's the Face now, but the organization has changed as a whole.

This obviously does boil down to the ability to retain Halladay for multiple years, but you really get the feeling that the Phillies of old would have been content to drag it out with Lee and woo him and hold out hope through the whole '10 season. Now they don't sit on their hands and wait, they take action, and mind-bogglingly bold action. They're going after the best available pitcher in baseball, perhaps the best pitcher period.

This is what an actual farm system can do for you. The Phillies were named the fourth best organization in baseball last week. Is there a connection between that news and today's storyline? You bet your's f*cking impressive, how this franchise has changed its ways.

Yeah, with the orioles trading for the right to pay millwood 9 million, you would think that there would interest in Blanton. Or maybe I just over rate him because I personally like him.

If that Stark scenario plays out, however, it is hard to believe they are about to further decimate their catching depth...yes, good that they'd still keep their top prospects, but they'd better draft 50 catchers come June.

every report there is list different names...this is crazy...on, Salisbury has D'Arnaud AND Drabek AND Taylor in the deal......

If Stark is correct and this is the deal, I'm a happy old man so long as the "other Phillies prospect" isn't Brown or Drabek.

Stark says they couldn't get enough for Blanton, not that there was no interest.

AP reports "Philadelphia could give up pitchers J.A. Happ, Joe Blanton and outfielder Dominic Brown as part of a deal, the person said. Those three players also took physicals in Philadelphia on Monday."
Really? Two-fifths of the rotation and your No. 1 position prospect?
Could it be?

"mind-bogglingly bold action" is a good phrase to describe this deal.

Battle of the mega sports hubs.

I think if we're getting 2 prospects back, it means we're giving up Brown or Taylor for sure. I just hope at least one of the guys we get back is legit... I liked D'Arnaud and Taylor a lot (I kinda assume it's him and not Brown, who Rube is justifiably very high on)

Blanton is a FA after this coming year - maybe they do not want to invest in someone that will only be there this year. (and hes no Star)

Do you think that at the deadline last yr we wouldve given up a package of Taylor, D'Arnaud, Carrasco, Knapp, Donald, and Marson for Halladay (assuming he came with an extension)? That is a lot of upper-level prospects...

NEPPESN (New England Phillies Phan Sports Network) has confirmed the Stark report.

They're also calling the deal a "steal" for Philadelphia...

I can live with giving up 2 prospects plus Lee, although of course, I'd prefer to only give up one. I do think it would be dumb to give up a pitcher like Drabek, however (so I'm hoping Stark is right and the Drabek and Blanton/Happ rumors are wrong).

I also say that the Phils should absolutely get something back - otherwise, Seattle would have given up only one prospect (Aumont) to get a Cy Young winner.

I loved Cliff Lee and will miss him (not to mention those "Happ-and-Lee Ever After" t-shirts I found so clever). Without him, we'd not have won any games in the WS, had we even made it that far. I will love Halladay, I'm sure. I like Ruben thinking of both the immediate future and the slightly further out future. I like him working to keep our best prospects, and hinging the deal on working out an extension. Guess you have some smarts if you earn a Stanford MBA....

anyone remember which news outlet broke the Lee deal last year? Thats who I'm going to put my money on...

I think Zolecki broke that deal...though I don't really remember.

who is neppesn reporting are the mariners prospects to make this a "steal"

Their contacts within both the Seattle and Philly FO have refused to divulge those names unfortunately.

At the very least, when the dust settles, have a better feel for which outlets have the better 'sources'.

According to the AP now, it's two separate trades, and according to Lauber & AP, Drabek, Happ, Blanton, and Lee will all be leaving. Happ & Blanton took physicals today. This is getting out of control

Does seem like we're shedding prospects at a pretty good clip, Adam. We are also getting a few prospects in return. And it was said that in getting Lee, we gave up "peanuts," which doesn't make Carrasco, Knapp, Donald and Marson sound like high prospects. But no, we did not want to give up all those guys for Halladay. And I did think Halladay was supposed to come more cheaply (less expensively) this year as opposed to last. But apparently not. Maybe the WS changed Ruben's mind about giving up the prospects? And this has seems to have quite a lot to do with Lee supposedly wanting to be a free agent after the year is up. So Ruben's trading for security, as well.

I simply don't believe the part about Drabek. If they were willing to include Drabek, Halladay would already have been a Phillie last July.

Zolecki hasn't mentioned any names so far. There goes my theory.

SmokeJoe - If all of those guys are leaving we are in trouble

what the heck is going on. Is everyone taking a physical. Nothing can ever be simple right.

NEPPESN is now reporting that the deal also includes Chase Utley and Ryan Howard going to Seattle with Lee...Philadelphia will reportedly get cash considerations in return.

I think a framework has been agreed upon, but names keep changing, and agents and lower level FO personnel are just throwing names out there. I haven't been able to put together one single scenario that makes sense based on the multiple reports. Lauber just tweeted that Drabek is definitely in the deal, while Brown is not.

There is no way - no way - we give up 3 ML pitchers and one almost-ready-for-the-ML pitcher to get 1 single pitcher. Unless Halladay can pitch every 3rd day all season :)

Smoky: I understand you're just the messenger, but that scenario just makes no sense. We're going to give up 3/5 of our starting rotation to get Halladay? And on top of that, we're going to throw in our best pitching prospect who, just a few months ago, we refused to trade away for this very same guy?

Unless Felix Hernandez is the guy that's coming back to us from the Mariners, there is simply no way.

anyone know about the M's farm system? it would be nice if we reeled in a 3B prospect out of all this. at least it would ease the damage of losing 6 of our top 15 over the last 6 months

We give up Drabek and Rube should be fired...unless is Drabek in lieu of Lee...and then Rube should simply be beaten with a hose.

I think until we have the deal officially put into effect there will be tons of reports going around. I'd go with Stark or whoever presented the deal in the graphic.

That makes the most sense and I can see that being a logical deal all around.

How 'bout throwing in that space needle? We could park it outside the stadium. I heard NEPP took a physical today, too.

Either Jim Salisbury is on crack, has terrible sources, or Amaro is getting fleeced. According to Salisbury, Phils are giving up Lee to the M's, Drabek, Taylor, and d'Arnaud to Toronto, and getting back Halladay and "possibly" a Mariners prospect (Toronto also gets Aumont from Seattle).

That is simply insane. Lee essentially nets two prospects, only one of which we keep, and we give 3 top-ten guys to the Jays for Doc? Drabek, Taylor and d'Arnaud is too much to begin with, let alone trading Lee for a prospect.

Gillick has ties to all three organizations here and it would make sense that all sides are trusting his mediation to get them a fair shake. Remember, can't get something for nothing. Therefore, Utley and Howard to Seattle it is! QED.

smoky.....lauber hasnt tweeted in 2 hours...and not one thing about drabek

****How 'bout throwing in that space needle? We could park it outside the stadium. I heard NEPP took a physical today, too.****

I did...however, the Seattle medical staff was concerned with some loose bodies in my typing elbow so they've scheduled another MRI tomorrow morning. That combined with my word per minute dip last Sept has them concerned. However, there is a strong possibility that I will be ready to return to full-time blogging by mid-april.

I need a cigarette, this is getting over bearing.

yeah the new AP story people are referring to only mentions Lee in terms of other outlets' reporting.

now CSN is saying they are trading Lee and Drabek that's not cool, one or the other for me

unless i guess these other players we are getting are young studs as well

Maybe the Phillies' team doctor is giving 20% discounts on physicals today, and all these guys just decided to take advantage of the deal.

I don't know what Lauber you're following, but the guy that writes for Delaware Online hasn't mentioned anything about Drabek on twitter, unless it takes more time for tweets to cross the country than I thought.

sorry grit, it was Salisbury. Here's the latest from MLBtraderumors:

7:04pm: Drabek and "other top [Phillies] prospects" will be involved in the deal, according to Jim Salisbury of (via Twitter). According to Salisbury, Brown will remain with the club.

6:55pm: J.A. Happ and Joe Blanton took physicals and could be a part of the deal, writes Rob Maaddi of the Associated Press. Domonic Brown also took a physical today, who is said to be coveted by the Jays.

Repost from previous thread

Well, we need to know a few things to see how the Phillies really did. If they're getting some money from the Blue Jays, my guess is this year, Halladay's salary = Lee's salary, which means they still have money to get another free agent reliever. Don't overlook that aspect of this deal.

Also, getting an ace pitcher like Halladay for 4 years, when he could easily command a 5/6 year deal on the market for over $100 million, is a steal. That's the minimum, the absolute bare minimum, they'd need to keep Lee, 100-120 million, or Halladay as a free agent. Instead, they get an ace locked up for 4 years with a contract they can work with.

As for the prospects involved, we don't know who we're getting. The Blue Jays, it seems are getting 3 prospects all told, 1 from Seattle and 2 from us, and we lose a single-A catcher and probably Michael Taylor, whom scouts don't like as much as Brown. Seattle gets Lee and loses 3 prospects, 2 to us, 1 to Toronto. It's a great deal for them, putting them in prime position to challenge the Angels if they land another bat, and there's still plenty out there.

As for us, we have Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, Moyer/Kendrick/Drabek/Whomever else we take a flyer on/ for the 5th spot, that's still a darn good rotation and matches up with everyone except San Francisco. It's the bullpen that's still problematic. If, maybe, Seattle gives us an arm in the deal for the pen in addition to an outfield prospect, I'll be very happy. In essence we'll have the basis for a great rotation for the next 3 seasons in Happ, Halladay, and Hamels, and we'll shore up the pen, AND we'll replace the prospect we lose to Toronto. I don't see how that's anything but a win for us.

****Maybe the Phillies' team doctor is giving 20% discounts on physicals today, and all these guys just decided to take advantage of the deal.****

Its getting towards the end of the calendar year...they've probably all maxed out their yearly deductibles and want to get it done now instead of January.

I trust RAJ not to get fleeced. 85% of these reports seem like we get raped. this can not be true, cuz rube has proven himself not to be a jackass. I think we get a reliever in this deal ala be fransisco in lee deal

all according to neppesn

what is the state of journalism today? how can there be so many different trades be reported? i've been following this all day and heard i don't know how many contradicting reports

I haven't recieved a tweet from Lauber and I am in Delaware.

And its the Delaware News Journal - PR

to pb: Everyone is desperate to be the first to "Break" the story...fact-checking and confirming (i.e. multiple sources) has been dead for a decade.

The CSN story is absurd and it better be wrong. Jim Salisbury has the Phillies trading Drabek, Taylor, and D'Arnaud to Toronto for Halladay. Then in a separate move, they trade Lee to the Mariners in a salary dump. (like they were trying to do with Blanton) Can you imagine the outcry?

There oughta be a way to find out who all got physicals in philly today.

this is bothering me

Guys: Chill out on the physical reports. It's entirely plausible that there were multiple offers going back and forth between the Phillies and Blue Jays, and a couple looked very likely. If two were on the table (one being the Lee/Ms swap, and ther other being Blanton/Happ/Drabek to the Jays, let's say), then it's entirely plausible the Phillies could have had those guys come in for physicals just in case.

The only thing I feel i can safely say about all this is Salisbury's story is complete BS. I mean that would be a complete and utter fleecing and would be giving up way too much- even for Halladay

There is a 35% probability some of us will need some form of physics before the real deal is announced.

Carlos Triunfel is a SS/2B in the Mariners system who the Phillies could be interested in for third. he was set to debut in AA even though he's only 19 (hit .287/.336/.406 at full-season A in 2008), but he broke his leg and played only 11 games all season.

Salisbury has, in effect, the Phillies trading Carasco, Donald, Marson, Knapp, Drabek, Taylor, and D'Arnaud for Halladay. And a clarification on my 8:33 post. Lee is not a separate deal.

The physicals are players being mentioned and will have their medical evaluations and probably it will be up to Toronto to pick one and not all of them. This will look probably bad to the player knowing he was in the trade talk.

i'm hoping after lee heard he was gonna be traded to seattle he called his agent and said "tell the phils to trade other guys, i'll take an extension, i wanna be a part of a rotation with halladay." i can dream

This just in...while getting their physicals, Happ, Blanton, and Drabek ran into Jamie Moyer, who happened to be getting his prostate exam and colonoscopy at the same time.

Honestly, what in the world is going on? If Drabek is in this trade, the Phils must either be getting some extra return, or they must have had an about face on their stance not to even discuss trading him. Very weird.

Let's all focus on the Sixers snapping their losing streak, hoping the Flyers can score a goal, get a good night's sleep, and check back in the morning.

toronto gets juan castro and dewayne wise philadelphia gets roy halladay... you heard it here first!!

we are getting Halladay and $6 million from Toronto and Morrow, a SS prospect and Aumont from Seattle. We keep Brown but I think Seattle gets Blanton and Lee and then I think our catching prospect Travis D, Mariners SS prospect, either Drabek/Aumont, Taylor or Happ to Toronto. Morrow can help in the Pen or start and then from what we have been seeing Jason Marquis is signed... The key is up thru 2013 with Halladay and the flexibility to sign Marquis. Gives us Doc, Cole, Marquis, Moyer, Morrow... I'm not crazy about it for 2010 but going down the road we still have some stud pitchers in our system and Halladay and Marquis for min 3 years

Did somebody mention Iverson?

7:51pm: Elliott says (via Twitter) that Drabek is in the deal, but Aumont is not.

this is just retarded.

And mike cameron just got close to 16 million for two years in boston ? What the hell is going on in baseball?

Giving up Drabek is fvcking retarded...if its true, Rube should be fired.

who the f is elliot

mm: Great defensive player who can hit 25 HRs in Fenway. He's been worth 16 mill a year the last 3 years according to Fangraphs. Take their defensive valuation with a grain of salt, if you want, and consider that LF in Fenway isn't as valuable as playing CF, but no question Cameron is worth 7.5 million a year, if he keeps his power up and plays great defense.

Hearing on twitter that Lee is blocking the trade( of himself to Seattle)

I suppose the Phils could be keeping Aumont and shipping Drabek north. Not sure if that's an upgrade or not.

Does Lee have a no trade clause?

I do not want to give up Drabek...who is going to be our 5th starter???

Kill- whose twitter?

Lee does not have a no trade clause.

I didn't think so...thus he can't block any trade.

BS Report like most of the rest we've heard lately.

wow - this is the wildest barrage of rumors and reports I think I have ever experienced on a deal that is already agreed to in 'principal'.

Not sure what opinion to have at this point, but I am with BAP about Drabek. If Drabek is in the deal, there would have been no need for the inclusion of Seattle. This would have been done already between the two clubs.

Slocs -- do you have a link for that scenario? or did you just piece that together?

Lee doesn't have a no-trade, but he could tell Seattle he is not going to sign with them, and they could back out. But that's unlikely, because presumably they understood that going in, given that the Phillies were unable to sign him.

Somebody didn't read the fine print on Lee's contract?

SPF: i doubt Drabek is our 5th pitcher if he's here or not.

and of course, KK will lock that down.

Stark justr confirmed following. Phillies get Halladay and Aumont. Drabek/Happ, Taylor and D'nard to Toronto.

Welcome back, Pedro!

Hamels would have had a physical, but he's a few weeks behind schedule due to appearing at car dealers, promoting videogames, and filming reality TV shohws.

Give up Taylor or Brown not have 2 OF prospects and only 1 top pitching prospect.

Lee to M's as salary dump? I would be pissed at that.

I was just thinking if we are trading Blanton, Happ and maybe Drabek, isn't possible that maybe we are not trading Lee. Lee did not take a physical? Remember the Phils were trying to trade Blanton to get money to get Halliday, now maybe we will have Lee for this year. Its a thought.

Aumont was #1 Seattle pick in 2007 and was converted to a reliever when new GM stepped in. Got to be more to it Lee for Aumont sounds awful. still think there is more. maybe mariners ss to toronto.

thephaitful: I didn't mean right away...and i was more or less asking who's gonna be our 5th starter regardless or who gets traded and who's here or not. KK sucks...we should look at Derschererrerer or w/e

Lauber finally tweets....

That Lee's wife would be shocked and sad if a deal goes down.

Everyone calm down and think about this.

The Phillies could of had Halladay last season, but RAJ stood his ground and refused to trade our top prospects. Does anyone really think RAJ would have a firesale of our team/farm to lock up Halladay now? Something very strange is going on here, and I'm convinced we don't know the full story yet. Based on Ruben's previous experience, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Drabek isn't going anywhere, and 75% of these "reports" are BS.

Slocs for a deal like that to go thru - Phils would then have to also sign lee to an extension

No way Slocs

That would mean that 1 year of Lee @ $8 million is worth Seattle's 2nd best prospect, and one year of Hallady is worth our 1st, 3rd, and 5th best prospects.

If we give up Drabek or Happ, Taylor and D'Nard why give the Ms Lee?

I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve who's not sure if he's going to get cole in his stockings (trading lee, drabek, taylor) or if he gets the power wheels (keeps lee or drabek and taylor).

I think I'd settle for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle tent. I just can't wait till morning!

I'm calling BS on the whole trade. Lee and Halliday are both staying put.

phils swapping Aumont for Drabek?

I need to read up on this kid.

Somebody mentioned if drabek was in deal then no need to involve Seattle. Wrong still need to get rid of lee's salary.

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