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Tuesday, December 01, 2009

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Park made $2.5M plus some performance bonuses last season, had a great year and stood to get a substantial boost in arbitration.

mikes77: "Something is wrong in the world when 35 year old utility players like Derosa and Marco Scuturo can command multi-year deals at 6m per."

Well, if DeRosa and Scutaro were, in fact, utility players you'd have a good point.

DeRosa has been an everyday player for 4 years, Scutaro for 2.


From the previous:

Jack and clout, I am NOT stepping in to your debate.

I am merely providing Rotowarld's take on Kearns:

"Nationals declined arbitration to OF Austin Kearns, 1B Dmitri Young, C Josh Bard, LHP Ron Villone and RHP Livan Hernandez.

None of the players were ranked free agents so the Nats didn't stand to gain any compensation by offering them arbitration. Kearns, who hit .195/.336/.305 in '09, will struggle to land a reserve role this winter."


This is what compelled me to ask whether others thought it made sense to sign him.

In short, if he can be had at a fair price, I'm all for it.


right, Scutaro had a 111 OPS+ in the AL East, hit .282/.379/.409, and played 143 games at SS. He was probably a top 5 offensive player at his position (he's 6th by VORP, FWIW). Scutaro may have been the starting SS on the Red Sox next year, and may still be if the rumored Pedroia move is shelved.

DeRosa was injured part of the year last year (but had a 114 OPS+ in CLE, 99 overall), but prior to that had 3 straight seasons of OPS+ over 100, including 117 in 2008 (just a season ago!) 139 games played last year, 149 in both seasons previous.

Yeah, they're getting older, but these guys are not bench players.

Beltre, who is a Type B, can be had without forfeiting a draft pick, as can DeRosa, who is a Type B also.

The only Type A 3B they may have been considering - Figgins - probably received little consideration more for his price tag in dollars, as opposed to losing the draft pick.

Also, didn't Jr. say they'd be willing to let the 26th pick go for the right guy?

Hmmm. PR and smoke and mirrors, or the naked truth?

clout - I don't know about a "substantial boost" in terms of absolute dollars. Park was poor as a starter and really only thrived as a reliever. Say he gets what a quality setup man gets the last few years (~$4M/year). Given his base last year, Park at the most was looking at around a $1.25-$1.5M dollar raise.

Yeah he is notable % increase but even $1.5M in baseball nowadays have become small potatoes where you see even the lowliest veterans on a roster making $750k year and up if they get a guaranteed contract.

Bullpen is and remains far and away the most pressing issue on this team. You hear this talk about how the Phils' farm system is so loaded with young arms and how the might be able to largely fill out their pitching needs internally.

No way. At most, they can fill the 5th starter spot and 1-2 spots in the bullpen with internal guys. If they wind up trying to fill the bullpen with 3-4 guys in their season already, they will have a terrible bullpen again next year.

Basically they have one sure fire guy in the bullpen next year right now in Madson. That's it. Maybe you can put Condrey in there but I wouldn't. He is coming off an injury-plagued year and is at best a back-end guy.

Lidge and Romero are huge question marks for next season about if they will be healthy and effective for the entire season. Same goes for Moyer too. I bet Amaro is thinking along the same lines and winds up signing at least 2 (probably 3) veteran pitchers for the bullpen while trying to soak away a few Walkers/Lopez types at AAA.

At this point, I will give Amaro the benefit of the doubt but this pitching staff right now is a little thin especially in the bullpen. Have to see and wait for what happens.

MLBTRADERUMORS is reporting that the Royals may be willing to trade 3B Alberto Callaspo.

He's young, inexpensive and he's locked under team control for quite a while.

If the asking price is right, is there any chance he lands in Philadelphia to compete for a starting job, a backup role or a platoon with a less expensive free agent (Derosa, Polanco, Feliz)?

"these guys are not bench players."

No, but they also took a long time to find positions, and some of the teams looking at them are considering them for positions they didn't play last year. I think that's all that was meant by "utility." The original post never said "reserve."

MG, I might not agree in every detail but I think that's a fair assessment of the bullpen. If the offense produces as expected, the Phillies should be able to take their time, as they did last year, figuring out who the last starter is, where the relievers slot and which of the AAA guys, whether youngsters or retreads, are hot enough for a few months in the bigs.

I agree with whomever said we need a playoff-rotation starter, someone who profiles as at least a #3, much like Blanton. However, I think Rube will wait 'til mid-season to fill this slot, maybe with a three-month rental to keep the cost down.

TNA: I think they read like a trip, too, but a good one -- very entertaining, even if they're too-good-to-be-true fantasies. Don't stop.

Utility players are guys who can play multiple IF or OF positions. They are almost always players that come off the bench. Ben Francisco is a perfect example of a utility OF (AKA a 4th OF) - a guy who can play either corner or CF.

Werth can play every OF position so in a sense he's a utility OF as well, but guys like Werth (or Figgins prior to 2007) are not the norm. Usually they are guys like Bruntlett who learn multiple positions to increase their otherwise low value to a club. Given mikes dim view of a utility players value, I took it that he was referring to guys in the Brandon Inge, Eric Bruntlett camp as opposed to guys like Scutaro or Werth. Is there something wrong with Werth being worth more than $6M to a club? No. That is an even more uncharitable reading of his point.

Will, while Alberto Callaspo is an intruiging possibility for a utility IF position on the roster, I think we can all dismiss him a a 3B candidate.


At 5'10" he's simply not tall enough.

With Teahen and Callaspo both in KC, one wonder whether the Royals might be willing to move Alex Gordon.

Teahen was traded to the White Sox. They got Chris Getz and Josh Fields in return. Fields plays 3B, though, so question is still relevant. Latest is that Royals are committed to Gordon at 3B tho.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10353396/Wednesday%27s-buzz-from-the-GM-meetings

Although the lack of Teahen makes the question less sensical if you look at the number of games Callaspo has started at 3B and Fields' atrocious offensive numbers.

Will,

Callaspo's .300/.350/.450 line sure looks sweet. Player control and affordability look sweet. DUI's and domestic disturbances look sour, very sour.

I should add, if there is truth to those stories. I just realized I blindly took someone's comment on mlbtraderumors as truth.

Callaspo for Mayberry? or would it take Mayberry plus something? It seems he's not really a "character guy" but maybe our clubhouse can be the like NE Patriots of the mlb, everybody shapes up once the come here because their on a winner. (how nice is that to say about our home town team
?)

I'll be shocked if Mayberry isn't traded this offseason

Callaspo's OPS+ was 5th among all 2B in MLB last year. He's 26 and cheap. He can play IF and OF. Brian Roberts had a similar season and was paid at least $8M for it.The Royals would rightly be a laughing stock for trading him for Mayberry, Jr. straight up.

Wagner is the Braves' new closer for $7M.

Well, the Bravos spending $7MM on a closer with an option year signals one thing, IMHO:

They believe, with their rotation, that they can contend and challenge the Phils.

Bench clearing brawl after Wagner hits Utley?

Sophist, thanks for the reminder on Teahen.


The Braves signing Wagner is an indication of one other thing, IMO:

Gonzalez and Soriano are looking for more money and/or a longer deal than Wagner got, assuming they at least tried to re-sign Gonzalez and/or Soriano back.

For the Braves, who value young talent a great deal, to give up a 1st Round (20th) pick to sign Wagner, provides additional evidence that they think they can contend for the division NOW.

Hopefully, Jr. will get the pitching shored up, and bring in a couple of more Rodrigo Lopez types to provide some starting depth at the AAA level.

Nevermind.

Braves thinking they get a draft pick or two when their other relievers sign elsewhere?

Best case scenario: their other two relievers go for arbitration and Braves end up with 3 high priced relievers eating a huge chunk of their budget.

For anyone who thinks the Phils had tons of dough to drop on FA's, this quote from Ruben should provide a bit of sobriety:

"“We would like to add some more depth if we could, but pitchers aren’t falling off trees, and I don’t have an unlimited budget,” Amaro said."

Wow, the Wagner signing is interesting.

The Braves sign a Type A, lose a draft pick. They sign him to a team friendly deal, Wagner at 7mm sounds reasonable to me. Wagner clearly wanted to be the closer, he likely could have gotten that much from accepting the Red Sox arb offer. The deal is a 1/2yr deal depending on if he finishes enough games, so all in all the Braves didn't take on too much risk.

Boston makes out well, rents Wagner for a couple weeks and gets the 20th pick in the draft. That's a pretty good deal on their part.

The Mets look like a bunch of dopes, in my opinion, trading wagner for nothing, not getting any draft picks, and so on. Man I love that the Mets appear to have such a bumbling front office.

i don't think anyone thinks they have "tons of dough" nor an "unlimited budget", so that quote's nothing new.

While we are all discussing the "rumors" from the hot stove just something to keep in mind. Instead of debating each other to no end over who would be a better fit for us, just remember that almost no one that the Phillies have been rumored to get actually happened.

From the last thread.

BAP, regarding Beltre and his arbitration... Your wrong. Beltre won't receive a significant cut in salary. When is the last time you saw any player receive more than a 20% cut in salary due to arbitration? Beltre could go into that hearing with no agent and still make 10million this year.
Adrian Beltre is still relatively young. He has plenty of time to get a multiyear deal. He will accept arbitration and receive 11million, then have a good year and make MORE money next year.

Yo, newer thread

The Phils cut Park lose ... so they have money to sign quality relief help.
Seems like circular thinking/logic to me.

Firstly, I am awake because I just watched a marathon of "The Pen" and my heart beats hard for Chan Ho. I am actually wondering if anyone has heard of his wife's cookbook? I know this is a bit off the topic of wondering if his possible departure is good/bad but I thought I would ask while everyone has a little Chopper on the mind.

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