Ex-Yankee 3B among Phillies' non-roster invitees

Seven minor league veterans, including A-Rod's early season replacement in 2009, will be invited to Phillies spring training in Clearwater. Here's a look at three you haven't seen before.

Chris Duffy, OF: Duffy, 29, started the season with Milwaukee, where he hit .125/.222/.156 in 19 games before he was demoted to Triple-A Nashville in late May, where he appeared in only three games before going temporarily inactive for the rest of the season due to personal issues. He'll slice the occasional home run, otherwise he's your basic banjo-hitting minor league center fielder with OK athleticism and a schooled approach, hitting .269/.328/.361 during his days in Pittsburgh, swiping 41 bags. He should have discovered Japan by now.

Bill White, LHP: White, 31, did not pitch professionally this past season, last pitching 2008 as a member of the Texas Rangers organization where he combined to go 4-1 with six saves and a 3.48 ERA in 51 relief appearances between triple-A Oklahoma and single-A Bakersfield. He appeared in eight games for Texas in 2008. Over nine minor league seasons, he's 19-23 with a 4.66 ERA. Think Allentown, or even Reading. Definitely not Philadelphia.

Cody Ransom, INF: Ransom, 33, split the 2009 season between New York and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. He began the year as the Yankees' opening day third baseman, filling in for Alex Rodriguez as he recovered from hip surgery. With New York, Ransom hit .190/.256/.329 in 31 games, including 18 starts at third, two at shortstop and one each at first and second base. He's appeared in parts of seven Major League seasons between the Giants (2001-04), Astros (2007) and Yanks (2008-09). Aside from filling in for A-Rod, his modus operandi is that of a Triple-A lifer, hitting .247/.325/.446 in parts of nine seasons at the minor league's highest level. He has good power from the right side, hitting over 20 home runs the last three seasons in Triple-A, plus he has speed. However, he has no plate discipline to speak of, whiffing 1,195 times in 4,802 lifetime minor league plate appearances. With the Yankees last season, he struck out 25 times in 86 plate appearances. He's another guy who should seriously consider Japan.

The Phillies also invited Andy Tracy, DeWayne Wise, Wilson Valdez and Paul Hoover to spring training. Valdez, as discussed, is slightly worse than Juan Castro, but since he'll have the luxury of staying fresh an entire season in Triple-A, could creep into the mix late in '10 if Castro starts collecting too much dust, which is how it worked for Miguel Cairo and Eric Bruntlett a year ago. Ransom, as a righty hitter with pop, versatility, athleticism and experience, is positioned pretty well in the Phillies' chain if someone like Greg Dobbs gets hurt again.

Ex-Phillie report: The Mets have signed third baseman Mike Cervenak to a minor deal. Cervenak collected his first MLB hit with the Phils in 2008 as a September call-up. Meanwhile, the Astros are helping themselves to more of the Phillies' sloppy seconds, including reliever Gary Majewski and starter Gustavo Chacin, both signed to minor deals. Finally, T.J. Bohn, who appeared in a couple games for the Phillies in 2008, has signed on with the ChiSox.

Phillies sign Colombian catcher? Wanted to pass along an unconfirmed report that the Phils have signed 16-year-old Colombian catcher Jorge Alfaro in the amount of 2,500 million Colombian pesos, which is a record signing for that country, according to a report in a Colombian paper. A follow-up Twitter report from an ESPN senior scribe said the catcher worked out with the Phillies yesterday, but no deal has been struck. That figure, by the way, translates to $1.25 million US dollars.

Comments

[Matt]

$1.25 million for a 16-year-old Colombian catcher? Interesting.

[SKIP BABBINSKI]

2,500 MILLION WOULD BE 2.5 BILLION

[Buster Heyman]

Ten bucks says he's 30 before he sees CBP!

[Meyer]

That's 20,000 Colombian Pesos.

[rk]

I don't like children being signed by professional teams. On the other hand if nothing else this no doubt very poor child, and he is a child, now has $1 m. good for him.

I hope his dreams will be fulfilled.

I am assuming it will be 6 years before we will begin to know.

[CY]

nice to see the FO branching out and taking a shot on Columbian catcher. Hope the scouts have pulled a diamond out of the rough.

[NEPP]

16 years old and a millionaire...in a country where that is an immense fortune?

Yeah, I'd say his "dreams" have already been fulfilled. I hope he develops like we hope.

[CY]

1st place birds! What a game

[DPatrone]

Fly Eagles Fly! Enough to give me a heart attack. Had to put up 45 and it wasn't easy. But I'll take it.

[MG]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/2010-mlb-free-a.html

Not a lot of quality bullpen arms available.
Lots of middling veteran RHP relievers available though (probably the reason why Condrey was not offered arbitration) but the list of LHP relievers is kind of underwhelming.

[AJ]

Jason,

Cervenak was not called up last year.

[Nick Leyva]

Duffy is a good speed/defense guy who can't hit. He'll be a good player to have around in September since the Phillies still lack a pinch-runner off the bench.

On the negative side it looks like Matt Stairs won't return as AAA depth/September call-up. He would have raked for the IronPigs.

[J. Weitzel]

AJ:
You're correct. For some reason, I remember seeing him on the bench this fall. My mistake.

[jr]

Mark Hendrickson would be a good addition for the Phils. Probably wouldn't hurt the 76ers either.

[thephaithful]

Can we sign Alfredo Amezaga just so we can stash him in the minors so another NL East team will not sign him?

[ozark]

Seems like Colombia needs to dollarize its currency.

[ChrisInVT]

Is it just me or is Ken Rosenthal an idiot sometimes? Did anyone see his article suggesting that The Phils are trying to trade Cliff Lee for prospects so they can send those prospets to Toronto for Halladay? AND that it would save money for the Phils?

He says that he has "no info, just a hunch."

[NEPP]

Explaining the Rosenthal thought process:

"Hmm, how can I get tons of people to click on my article? I KNOW!!!, I'll put Lee and Halladay's names in the header!!! IT'S BRILLIANT!!!"

[ChrisInVT]

"But I'll make sure to cover my butt by stating that it's just a hunch, since I made the whole thing up."

[Bedrosian's Beard]

According to Gargano, Zoelecki echoed Rosenthal's "theory"?

[ChrisInVT]

It doesn't make any sense! Halladay isn't appreciably better than Lee, and he costs 7 mil more per year. If you're working on a budget, how would that possibly make any logical sense?

[Robby J]

It's a slow news week for baseball. The non-tenders (yawn) are the only story now. Not excusing Rosenthal, but his theory suggests that Lee is a money-hungry bastard who will get more money on the open market because Halladay does not have money as his sole priority. Guess Rosie knows this cuz he lives (and fits) in Halladay's locker

[clout]

ChrisinVT: I understand that, as Phillies fans, we believe every Phillie better than any other player in baseball. But this statement is just plain false. It was discussed on the prior thread.

"Halladay isn't appreciably better than Lee."

[TNA]

WHAA? Howard isn't better than Pujols, Fielder, A. Gonzalez, Youkilis, Cabrera, and Teixeira? Since when?

[mvptommyd]

ChrisinVT & NEPP: The thought process that makes perfect sense is this:

According to Zolecki and Rosenthal's reports the Phillies would do that in a heartbeat not really to save money this year BUT in the years to come. Lee's agent already said that Lee will be looking for CC/Burnett type contract after this season. However, Halladay's #1 concern is being close to home which the Phillies are and spring training is also held 15 minutes from his home in Florida. Also, Halladay is willing to sign an extension once he is traded instead of being like Lee and waiting to hit the market.

Therefore you sign Halladay to a 5 yr/ $75 million extension, with this year his salary being $9 million and backload the rest of it. Therefore, you keep the budget in tact AND gaurentee yourself a Hamels and Halladay/Lee rotation for the next 5 years.

For the record: Burnett's contract is 5 yr/82.5 million and CC is 7 yrs/ 161 million.

[mvptommyd]

For the record: I am pretty content with Lee. I am not saying I want Halladay instead. But I do want to be gaurenteed eithier Lee or Halladay after this season. So whomever you can get to sign the extension quicker is the way to go.

[AWH]

"Halladay isn't appreciably better than Lee"

ChrisinVT, I know clout has already corrected your error, but I saw that, and before I even got to clout's post I had a reaction to it.

Let me share it with you:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[NEPP]

Keep both, extend one and get 2 picks for the other.

There is a perverse logic to trading Lee to get Halladay but I doubt that one gives us a much greater chance of winning out over the other in 2010. What was their difference in WAR last year?

[NEPP]

WAR for 2009:

Cliff Lee - 6.6
Roy Halladay - 7.3

Yeah, we'd gain a little bit but is that worth the short-term financial hit?

[NEPP]

Oh, and for the record, Halladay is a far better overall pitcher than Cliff Lee. Roy is a future HoF while Lee is a very nice pitcher.

[mvptommyd]

"Yeah, we'd gain a little bit but is that worth the short-term financial hit?"

What hit are you speaking of? Get Halladay and give him a 5 yr/75-80 mil extension. Pay him $9 mil in 2010 and then $16.50 mil the remaining 4 years.

If you keep Lee, you are paying Lee $9 mil this year and then he is going to test the market where he will most likely get 5-7 years/ 85-130 mil range.

[awh]

tommy, a wise post, and in Rosenthal's context, makes sense.

The reason they might trade Lee IF they trade for Halladay at the same time:

Ass-u-ming Doc would sign an extension while or after being traded (Lee has already said he'll test the market), if they traded now for Halladay - for instance, had to give up Happ, Brown and Gose - they would have Doc and Lee for 2010. Afterward, they would only have Doc and the draft picks.

They may be looking at it this way: Their intent when trading for a pitcher in 2009 was always to try to extend that pitcher after the trade, and if Doc agrees to an extension, they'll have accomplished that.

BUT, they gave up Carrasco, Marson, Knapp and Donald for Lee, and will be left with only 2 draft picks after trading those four players. If they trade the above three for Doc, THEY may view it as they traded Carrasco, Happ, Donald, Marson, Brown, Gose and Knapp for Doc and 2 draft picks.

Now, I know they will have gotten 1-1/3 season from Lee (and hopefully TWO playoff runs), but they may feel that that is too big a price to pay in future talent for just getting Doc locked up.

Hence, they may trade Lee for more prospects to restock the cupboard and help the team sooner than 2 draft picks would, expecially if they feel they aren't going to be able to keep him beyind 2010.

[ChrisInVT]

Lee is a 6.5-7 WAR pitcher.

Hallday is a 7-7.5 WAR pitcher.

You're talking about a difference of .5 - 1 WAR...and we're going to trade very good, cheap propsects for that? That's what I meant by "not appreciably better". We're not talking about upgrading from Blanton to Halladay, which makes sense and would be a significant boost to the team. We're talking about a difference of less than 1 WAR.

If Halladay's really willing to take a 5/75 extension, then I guess that would make sense. But if Lee wants Burnett money (not CC money) then that kind of deal would make sense too...not to mention that Lee's an established POSTseason ace now as well...

[NEPP]

****If they trade the above three for Doc, THEY may view it as they traded Carrasco, Happ, Donald, Marson, Brown, Gose and Knapp for Doc and 2 draft picks.****

That ignores the fact that we had Lee for a WS playoff run...that was quite a bit of value in and of itself (in revenue, increased marketability, appeal to foreign free agents, etc).

[awh]

Lee to LAA for Aybar and a couple prospects, the flip Aybar and a package to TOR for Doc?

[NEPP]

Maybe Rube & Co are concerned with the fact that Lee pitched 272 innings last year? (and 495.1 IP over the last 2 seasons) That could very well effect him in 2010. This could be a Sell High moment on Lee.

[mvptommyd]

AWH: That isn't what would happen. We don't really need to trade ANY of our "top prospects".

What the situation would be is that we would trade Lee to the Angels for a bunch of their prospects (including a guy that Toronto wants badly). Then we turn around and trade the Angels prospects and a couple guys not named Brown, Taylor, or Happ for Halladay.

Also, from what I read/heard the deal is based on the fact that Halladay signs the extension.

[ChrisInVT]

"What the situation would be is that we would trade Lee to the Angels for a bunch of their prospects (including a guy that Toronto wants badly). Then we turn around and trade the Angels prospects and a couple guys not named Brown, Taylor, or Happ for Halladay."

If we trade the Angels' prospects to Toronto for Doc, why wouldn't the Angels just trade those prospects to Toronto and acquire Halladay themselves? Are we assuming Doc doesn't want to play in LA? This whole thing just seems like made-up nonsense to me.

[NEPP]

****If we trade the Angels' prospects to Toronto for Doc, why wouldn't the Angels just trade those prospects to Toronto and acquire Halladay themselves?****

Couple possibilities:

1. Halladay tells Toronto he won't go to the Angels.

2. We'd toss in Happ in any deal most likely as the Jays would almost certainly want an MLB level pitcher in a deal...given his cost, he'd be the most attractive.

[mvptommyd]

" Are we assuming Doc doesn't want to play in LA? "

That is exactly right. He wants to be close to home which is 15 minutes from Clearwater. Not at spring training in Arizona where the Angels workout.

[awh]

NEPP, did you even read past the part of the post you quoted? I referenced the playoff run EXPLICITLY.

READ THE WHOLE DAMN POST before you comment.

Besides, I am speculating about what the FO could be thinking.

What I or anybody on this board thinks doesn't matter.

[ChrisInVT]

"That is exactly right. He wants to be close to home which is 15 minutes from Clearwater. Not at spring training in Arizona where the Angels workout."

I understand that, but every report I've read still includes the Angels on the list of teams he would agree to be traded to. I guess that's speculation as well, but this whole thing seems way too convoluted to ever become reality.

[NEPP]

****READ THE WHOLE DAMN POST before you comment.****

Overreact much?

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Chris: Good point. I keep reading the Angels are still involved as well. That doesn't jibe with the spring training angle.

[bay_area_phan]

Chris: Yeah, Halladay has made his preferences clear, but I have never seen any indication that he would actually block a trade to the Angels. By all indications, Toronto seems to believe that he would NOT block such a trade. Otherwise, what would be the point of even dealing with the Angels?

[donc]

On friday's Missanelli show, Stark said that someone who's known Halladay his entire major league career says that Halladay desperately wants to be a Phillie. According to this source there really isnt even a second choice. This is where he wants to be period. Having said all that, this talk of 5 years for 75-80 million for Halladay is ridiculous. It makes sense that Doc may take a little less to come to a place he really wants to be, but get serious. Those numbers are AJ Burnette numbers. In what universe do those two pitchers get similar contracts? Halladay, and even more to the point, his agent would be morons to accept something like that. They'd be leaving tens of millions on the table. Nobody wants to be here that much.

[awh]

Nahhhh, I just wanted to get your attention.

[bay_area_phan]

Well . . . to answer my own question, I suppose they could be using the Angels just to drive up the bounty that the Phillies (or some other team) gives them. But that seems dubious. By all indications, Halladay wants his fate to be decided before opening day. So, if he were determined to block a trade to the Angels, it stands to reason that he would have said so publicly, as that would certainly speed up the process of getting this trade done.

[awh]

Halladay may agree to be TRADED to the Angels, but will he sign an EXTENSION with them.

The Angels, reportedly, are not interested in Doc unless they can get an extension from him.

Lee, OTOH, SAYS he wants to test the FA market, but the Angels could make a preemptive offer and lock him up. After all, Moreno is a little bit nore aggressive than than the Phils FO when it comes to bidding on FA's or potential FA's.

[CJ]

Correct...

Halladay would agree to go to the Angels, but will not sign an extension with them.

Halladay's strong preference is to go to the Phillies and would be willing to negotiate an extension. Whether he'd give the Phils a discount remains to be seen.

This is what the "sources" are saying... so take it for what it's worth.

[ChrisInVT]

So, assuming that doc wouldn't block a trade to LA (but probably wouldn't sign with them long-term), how does this trade concept make any sense at all? The Angels trade the same prospects they would trade for Halladay for Lee instead (who wants to test the market and won't sign long-term) to the Phils, who then trade those prospects to Toronto for Doc. According to everyone on the boards, Halladay is a CLEAR upgrade over Lee (which I think is overstated), and LA would get either pitcher for only 1 year, so why would LA trade for Lee instead of Doc, everything else being equal?

Again, the whole thing sounds like made-up nonsense by a writer trying to stir the pot.

[CJ]

FYI: Been in Vegas since last Wednesday, so if there's been a lack of "cheerleading" on Beerleaguer over that time, there's your reason.

Looks like Lackey is signing with the BoSox. Glad he's not going to the Mets.

[thephaithful]

If you sign Halladay to an extension, you still pay him his $15.75mil in 2010.

[NEPP]

****If you sign Halladay to an extension, you still pay him his $15.75mil in 2010****

Not necessarily...they could always restructure the contract to change that.

[bay_area_phan]

"Having said all that, this talk of 5 years for 75-80 million for Halladay is ridiculous."

It does seem fairly ridiculous, but let's suspend our disbelief for a moment. Halladay has already made $70M since 2002. On the FA market, he could undoubtedly command another $120M (if not more), which is a whole lot more than $80M. But the difference between $120M and $80M is also, in some sense, an abstraction, since $80M is already enough money to do anything you want for the rest of your life (particularly when you've already made $70M in your career).

Not everyone values money the same way. Maybe Halladay REALLY wants to play for the Phillies and REALLY wants to play for a winning team. Isn't it within the realm of possibility that he might agree to work at an enormous discount, in order to play in a place he wants to play, & in order to free up money that can be used on other star players? Is this so implausible?

[NEPP]

Signing a guy with known elbow/forearm issues to a long-term deal....that's ballsy.

If healthy, that's a hell of a rotation for the BoSox

Beckett
Lester
Lackey
DiceK
Bucholtz

[awh]

NEPP, the player's union would have to agree to that. they have never done that - ever. That was one of the things that messed up A-Roid to the Bosox. The Sox wanted to do the same thing - backload it, and the union wouldn't agree.

Under the CBO, I believe union approval is required.

[awh]

If indeed Lackey is headed to BOS, then the Phils probably don't get Doc.

Th Angels will raise the stakes to a level the Phils won't play, unless, of course, a three way takes place with Lee going to LAA, IMHO.

[pb]

Does Lackey to bean town put the yanks back in the race for Doc? or does it just eliminate another potential suitor?

[thephaithful]

So not only will Halladay take a multimillion discount to live near clearwater without testing free agency, but now he's going to restructure his already guaranteed money to fit into the Phillies 2010 payroll as well....

What a swell guy.

[NEPP]

****NEPP, the player's union would have to agree to that. they have never done that - ever. That was one of the things that messed up A-Roid to the Bosox. The Sox wanted to do the same thing - backload it, and the union wouldn't agree.****

Good point...I forgot about that with the Arod deal.

Unless of course Roy refuses to sign a long-term deal with the Angels.

I'd think the Yanks would be back in it as they'd almost have to counteract against a Lackey signing. Though with the Granderson deal, their farm is pretty thin.

[ChrisInVT]

If I were Halladay, and I wanted to play for a team with a clear shot at winning the WS, I would not agree to go to the Angels now...They just lost Figgins, Lackey, Vlad, and they'd be trading Saunders or Weaver + Aybar to get Doc. I'm not even sure they'll be the favorites in the AL West next season, let alone a clear WS contender, even with Halladay.

[CJ]

So... don't call me crazy... but the Lackey signing signals the BoSox likely won't be signing Bay or Holliday.

That leaves them seeking a middle-of-the-order bat through a trade.

So, how good of a pitching prospect could we get for Jayson Werth?

I know, I know... it'd be stupid to trade Werth when he's our only true RH threat in the order... and he's still cheap.

It'd mean starting the BenFrancisco treat and maybe calling up Michael Taylor.

I'm just saying... young stud pitching is THE premium in baseball.

Okay... I'll join reality-land again.

[clout]

ChrisinVT: I take it you think WAR is the end-all, be-all of stats. You may be surprised than many disagree with you. In any event, the differences between Lee and Halladay are significant:

Halladay ERA+ 133
Lee ERA+ 109

Halladay WHIP 1.19
Lee WHIP 1.30

Halladay OPSA .674
Lee OPSA .728

Halladay K/BB 3.29
Lee K/BB 2.71

Halladay HR/9 0.8
Lee HR/9 1.0

I could go on, but you get the picture.

[ChrisInVT]

NEPP - There's also a lot of chatter about the Yanks "cutting payroll" this offseason as well, although that seems to be an oxymoron for them.

[thephaithful]

bap: Yes. You make a lot more sense when you're negative.

[DPatrone]

Look,forget what everyone is writing or saying about Halladay. By that I mean stop and think for a moment.

Philly is Doc's 1st choice. Check.
The Angels want Doc. Check.
The Angels are probably gonna lose Lackey
the Bosox. Maybe. If that happens, LA will
step up their efforts.

Doc's would have to approve the deal and maybe he would. Check.

Why? Because RAJ ain't making a bleeping move towards him OR ANYBOBY ELSE! I know I posted last week that I was told the players in the deal had been finalized and that there was a 72-hour window for a contract extension. Apparantly my guy is not correct. The more I think about it more unlikely it is to happen. If RAJ wanted to do it, it would have been done already. A better chance of Doc coming in as a FA next year to replace Lee.

[NEPP]

****NEPP - There's also a lot of chatter about the Yanks "cutting payroll" this offseason as well, although that seems to be an oxymoron for them.****

I believe they want to "cut" their payroll down into the $180s from last year's $201 million. I think that would leave room for Halladay if they got creative...or simply didn't resign Damon.

[CJ]

Jayson Stark on ESPN again repeated that the Angels will NOT trade for Halladay unless he agrees to sign a contract extension.

Also, even if the Phils can't restructure this season on a Hallday extension, they would certainly be willing to take a hit to the payroll this year for the certainty they'd receive over the next couple years if Halladay would be willing to give a discount. However, the discount likely wouldn't be significant because the union would frown upon it. Halladay's deal will affect other deals... like Lee's impending FA.

[king myno]

I agree that Lackey going to the Sox hurts (or at least makes waves for) the Phils in the Halladay sweepstakes. Hard to believe the Angels, Yankees or both won't raise the stakes now.

I hoped Lackey would go somewhere irrelevant, like Seattle, or even better back to Anaheim.

[NEPP]

****Jayson Stark on ESPN again repeated that the Angels will NOT trade for Halladay unless he agrees to sign a contract extension.****

If he's right then I doubt they trade for him. Halladay has been pretty adament about not wanting to do ST in Arizona. He wants to be near his family.

Making the playoffs in 2010 would pay for any short-term payroll hit...

[clout]

NEPP: Chances of Halladay agreeing to a salary cut for 2010: Zero.

[bay_area_phan]

phaithful: Yeah, I think so too. Just letting myself dream a bit.

I don't think it's out of the question that Halladay would take a discouted price to play for the team he really wants to play for. Others have certainly done it. But an $80M contract would be around a 50% discount off his probable market value. That does seem a bit hard to believe.

[circus]

"6:53pm: One day after being non-tendered by the club, Scott Olsen has agreed to a one-year deal with the Nationals, reports Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com.

While the base salary is just $1MM, Crasnick says that the deal could jump to nearly $4MM if he makes 33 starts."

He would've been nice for $1MM-$4MM - past history with the phillies regardless, I think anyone would rather play for the phils over the nationals

[DPatrone]

CJ~

We already know Lee's going to test the market. We'll find out if Amaro has guts here with Doc. I doubt it. If it were me I'da done it by now.

I heard Money was on 610 and said next year they be looking at younger players. What does that tell us? The time to win is NOW!

[donc]

BAP: You make a good point about the money issue with Halladay in regards to just how much money does one guy need. However I can't see anyone giving any team that kind of a discount. That is an enormous amount of money to leave on the table. Like thephaitful said What a swell guy. Nobody is that swell. I cant suspend my belief to that degree. I am certainly cynical I know. But that strains the limits of credibility. BTW: If the Lackey rumors are true he is about to sign for that kind of money. Just one more comp along with Burnette to illustrate the fact that Doc is worth a cool 100 mill. At least.

[DPatrone]

BAP~ Yes it's very plausible. I posted the same thing last week. It's not $$ with him. I'ts just that RAJ won't get off his butt to find out. Doc wants to win.

[DPatrone]

Clout~ You're right. Halladay would not take a salary cut in '10. I was told 4/65 as an extension would get it done. And the players.... but is isn't gonna happen. Just a smokescreen. Rube ain't even upgrading the BP.

We go on about what should happen but this guy is too passive at time. Good GM. Small marbles.

[NEPP]

****I was told 4/65 as an extension would get it ****

$16.25 million per? Somehow, I don't buy that. 4/80 is a bit more believable.

[NEPP]

****We go on about what should happen but this guy is too passive at time. Good GM. Small marbles****

Were you around last July when he traded for Cliff Lee? That was a pretty good move.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

"We go on about what should happen but this guy is too passive at time. Good GM. Small marbles."

You're back to sounding like the crazy uncle at a party.

[CJ]

I'm hearing Halladay will sign a 3 year/$24M extension with the Phillies. He's using the Adam Eaton contract as a guide.

[CJ]

Hard to call Amaro passive... but not surprising coming from DPatrone (do you have any credibility left?).

Amaro signed an aging Raul Ibanez before the market was set.

Amaro traded 4 of his top prospects for Cliff Lee.

Amaro signed an aging Placido Polanco before the market was set.

You can call Amaro a lot of things... but to suggest he's passive or that he has no "marbles" is just flat out wrong.

[donc]

Halladay is making what 15.75 mill this year? Everybody here who thinks he will work for something similar going forward raise their hands. Ok BAP and MVP stop clowning around. Put your hands down. Now does anybody really think he'll settle for something like that going forward? Didn't think so.

[CJ]

Re: Amaro is passive

I forgot... he also cut Geoff Jenkins and Adam Eaton despite their large contracts.

And then he signed Pedro Martinez forcing a move of Jamie Moyer to the bullpen.

Passive? I'll let you decide.

[DPatrone]

4/80 ok. Fine. Let's do it. I'm on board. The problem is the Phils aren't.

BB~ Of course I was around in July. The Lee deal was EXCELLENT. I have no problem with it. We got Lee 'cause we didn't get Doc. Rube got fed up with Ricciardi.

We have an opportunity to have Doc, Lee Hamels, and Blanton for 1 year. Gives us the best rotation is baseball. What's wrong with that? The Phils don't see it as we do. They just see the bottom line.

CJ~ You should stop with the bad humor. 3/24 is not real. Much less funny.

[awh]

DomPatrone, now now now, wipe the froth from off of your chin and take a deep breath.

We agree that the time to win is now. We also agree that NO ONE had any idea about the Lee trade until it happened.

Therefore, I think it's fair to give RAJ the benefit of the doubt.

Do I think he's above criticism?

No, and I have two words to prove it: Juan Castro.

Still, the offseason isn't over yet.

[ChrisInVT]

clout - I'm fully aware that over their respective careers, Halladay has been a far superior pitcher. What about over the last two years? I would guess that the numbers are MUCH closer when you look at Lee's last two seasons, since he got demoted and "got it" in the minors.

And I know that statisticians discount a player's ability to perform under pressure, but a guy who has proven to be dominant in the playoffs has a little more value versus one who's never proven that.

[Robby J]

DPatrone-- How can you say Amaro has "small marbles"? He jumped on Cliff Lee Wanted Polanco (right or wrong) and signed him quickly. Getting Polanco off the free agent pile is mowhere near the same as the finances involved in a trade for Doc. This stuff takes time and forethought..Also, Is Toronto in a rush to deal him TODAY? It takes two to make a trade. Your timetable is your own. If it doesn't coincide with Ruben's, it doesn't make him scared to deal.

[Deutsche Phan]

DPatrone: It would be nice if you could at least be consistent in your criticism of Amaro. This offseason you've projected that he will act quickly and brashly in getting DeRosa, and now he is too passive for your taste. While I may not agree with many posters on here, they tend to be consistent and stick to their guns.

[donc]

Am I the only one that sees the words passive and marbles showing up in a long running BLer inside joke? Something along the lines of DITHL or height requirements for thirdbasemen. I'll throw it open to the group. There is a lot of creativity here. And apparently a lot of idle time.:)

[DPatrone]

RobbyJ~

Maybe it's not him. Maybe it's the FO. Who knows? But the fact of the matter is nothing's getting done. We all speculated that RAJ would bring in someome for the 'pen when the non-tenders were announced. Nothing has happened. Polanco, Lee. All well and good. Doc WANTS to come here. Get it done.

What I see is the long-term big picture and it's not a pretty one. Guys are gonna leave. Infield's gonna age. Etc. The window is small. If the Bosox get Lackey (and it appears so), that's to go up against the Yanks. I'd say the Yanks could go after Doc now. If not then they'd certainly go after Lee on the FA market to replace Petitte. I know it's early in the off-season, but tell me, is the team better at this point? Don't think so. I can't help it if I'm not patient. Sorry.

[donc]

Deutsche Phan: Forgot about that. Good catch by you.

[mvptommyd]

LMAO. DPatrone, I love you man but seriously. Calling Amaro "Passive" and having "small marbles" is hilarious. Are you serious?

The guy signs who he wants even if it doesn't look logical or the best move according to some "experts", i.e. Ibanez. And moves quickly to do so, i.e. Polanco.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

The sky is falling.

[Robby J]

Dom-- Weren't you floored when we traded for Cliff? You nor anyone else saw that coming.. because Rube chooses not to tell us his business.. So I wait.. maybe for a press conference. If by Feb 1 this is basically all we have, then yes I'll be pissed too. I think Doc may even make it under the tree this year.

[NEPP]

Mets offered Kelvim Escobar a minor-league deal.

Rube should outbid them. He could be this year's Kris Benson...minus the slutty wife.

[aksmith]

Did I miss the press conference where Lee declared he was testing free agency no matter what? I find it hard to believe that if the Phillies came to him and offered 5 years/100 million that he wouldn't at least sit down and talk with them. And sadly, that is the lower end of the going rate for a guy like Lee. Didn't his agent already have preliminary discussions with the Phillies at the Winter Meetings? Was that just to tell the Phillies to F off?

And if it's about making lots of money, but not every last dollar. And if it's also about winning, wouldn't guys like Lee and Halladay want to each take 5/100 to play on a perennial WFS team? I know that I would.

[Deutsche Phan]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the Amaro family as RAJ continues his ongoing struggle against PMS (Passive Marble Syndrome).

[bay_area_phan]

"I'm fully aware that over their respective careers, Halladay has been a far superior pitcher. What about over the last two years"

But that's kind of the point. I think you'd have a stronger case if Lee had been better than Halladay in this past year. That would have made 2 straight seasons in which he out-performed Halladay and, at that point, I think you could credibly argue that Lee is now the better pitcher.

But Halladay's overall numbers were much better than Lee's last year, and have been much better in every other season except 2008. When one guy has been substantially better than the other in 5 of the last 6 seasons, including last season, it feels pretty arbitrary to say that only the last 2 seasons count and, by the way, the outlier season that happened 2 years ago is entitled to the same weight as last year's performance.

If Lee out-performs Halladay in 2010, then he can make a pretty good case to being the better pitcher. Right now, Lee has out-performed Halladay only once in the last 6 years, and it wasn't even this past season. It's pretty difficult to make a case that he's the better pitcher under those circumstances.