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Wednesday, December 16, 2009

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Be a Mariner! Be a Mariner! I believe in Christmas miracles!!!!!!!!!

JFC dancing on cracker

what the hell is going on?!?

link?

from mlbtraderumors: Larry Stone of the Seattle Times doesn't expect the deal to unravel, and is hearing it's not a Mariners prospect who failed a physical.

I fear for the sanity of the beerleaguer faithful

MLBTR says it isn't a Mariner. I'd think this is a minor speed bump, and the deal still goes down.

I think I've reached the "acceptance" stage of the grieving process, I'm not going to worry about it anymore. What's done is done. Hopefully the Lee deal not being finalized yet means that the Phils are getting a little more for him. But if not, oh well. We are still the best team in the NL for the third year in a row, which is awesome.

Word is all the Seattle prospects passed their physical.

If someone failed, it was Taylor, Drabek or d'Arnaud. Wallace is out there, too, but I don't think that deal would affect this one.

it's gotta be drabek. i can see the deal still going through with less money coming here if it is drabek who failed.

Is it too late to scratch this entire deal and send everyone back to where they came from? This is getting ridiculous!

If it is a Mariner, does that give the Phils an out to not pull the trigger on the Lee trade? I hope it does.

If it's Taylor, there's a good chance the A's would waive the issue, since it's doubtful that we're talking about a chronic injury problem.

Question for the group?

Does anyone know the length of the current Phillies televsion and radio contracts? My thought is the financial situation will greatly be dependant on this. Also with the recent success and spike in ratings the Phils should have a great deal of bargaining power with CSN and whoever else wants in on the action.

How uncool would it be if the Lee deal went through but the Halladay deal didn't?

All of BL might become more cynical than b-a-p.

what happens in these physicals that makes one fail?

was there a problem in the 'turn your head and cough' portion??

Martino tweets:

"Official announcement of Halladay trade today still not out of the question, source says. Indications there has been no deal-breaking issue."

phillieszone tweets- Official announcement of Halladay trade today still not out of the question, source says. Indications there has been no deal-breaking issue.
less than 10 seconds ago from

If we don't get Halladay, the Lee deal isn't happening.

If it's Taylor, would someone like Gose be adequate enough for Toronto? Or Happ replacing Drabek?

Interesting...

I don't think Toronto would accept a Happ replacement. They liked Gose from before but uhh....who knows.

The deal with Seattle has to be contingent upon the completion of the deal with Toronto. Has to. RAJ can't be that stupid.

neither deal is final, so if either one falls apart, we can back out of the other.

Obviously the Lee deal is contingent on the Halladay deal. Andy is just waxing cynical, in the great tradition of Beerleaguer.

Perhaps this was already brought up, but didn't Taylor miss time in Mexico for his elbow?

So now there's the possibility that Halladay and Lee could be on the roster at the same time!

Don't do it, Rube!!! It's not too late to bail!!!

I couldn't be more sick of this story if it were a trade for Brett Favre.

And Freddy Garcia passed his physical?

No wonder I drink. Sheesh.

donc: I'm with you. I just want this announced and over with already, so I get back to my regularly scheduled Flyers/Sixers sucktacular and late-season-only-to-come-up-short Eagles surge.

This IS the perfect drama queen story donc, If it's Drabek, can't BJs take him anyway? (unless it's irreversible structual damage) Anybody know what the "offended team's rights are?

HH: I swear I havent even been on BL since the middle of yesterday afternoon until about half an hour ago. I just can't follow it anymore. One of the guys in my office hollered about the failed physical over the intercomm and i had to log on. Damn I'm sick of this. I also love your characterization of the rest of the Philly sports landscape. As barren as the weather.

robby j - AFAIK, the "offended" team's rights are to void the trade, accept the trade as constituted regardless of the injury, or the teams agree on a replacement for the injured player.

BREAKING NEWS: A new 5th "mystery team" has entered the fray to resolve the failed physical! It is believed to be the Expos...more coming...

This has been the weirdest trade I have ever seen in any sport in my life.

A. Accept the prospect as is
B. Change the deal for different prospects
C. Void Deal

Also, I'm not foolish enough to think this really has an impact on anything, but funny that the announcement was/is supposed to go down on the last day to get in season ticket renewal deposits.

Buyers remorse anybody? Jays have second thoughts and slip the doctor a c-note to flunk the guy?

I would trade Joe Blanton or Jamie Moyer for a case of natural light if it meant we could keep cliff lee

Robby- in general, when there are conditions precedent to a deal happening, the party who would be harmed by a non-occurence of that condition can waive it if it doesn't happen.

So, yes, if it is the Blue Jays, and it is a Phils prospect, they can waive the condition (passing the physical), and the Phils would still have to go through w/ the deal.

Zolecki says "Failed physical won't kill this deal. An announcement is still expected today."

Jeff Blair of the Globe and Mail (from Toronto) says "Well-placed baseball source on failed physical reports involving a player coming to the Jays? "Totally false rumour.""

(Both via twitter)

Can the Blue Jays afford a c-note?

AL - I think we all would, but the Phils are thinking differently...they're determined to get some minor league talent back, which makes Lee the only viable trade candidate.

DP: A guy in my office just said that. He was walking into the office and I told him what happened and he said "Im on my way to my computer with my credit card to renew my season tix package". He's still gonna do it, but the timing is hysterical.

per MLBTR:

1:31pm: Jeff Blair of the Globe and Mail heard that the report of a failed physical is a "totally false rumour." ESPN's Shannon Drayer tweets that the deal is official and Lee is a Mariner.

And Jim Salisbury says the deal is done & there's a 5:00 PM press conference.

Sounds like it's done.

I swear to Chase Utley I dreamed last night that the Phillies told their Doctors to fail somebody in a physical. I know in this case it wasn't a Phillie Doctor, but still it's close.

I don't get the big rush to trade Lee. Why not wait for the best offer out of the Mariners, Angels, Rangers whoever??? Why not wait and see if you can shed payroll by others means? Like, I don't know BLANTON!

Great headline

Mets interested in Wang?

In stressful times like these I find making fun of the Mets always helps to alleviate the tension.

The Phils HAVE shopped Lee around...from what I've read, this has been in the works for a couple weeks (and is the reason they brought Lee's agent to meet with RAJ at the Winter Meetings). We can repeat it again:

After being traded twice in 6 months, for similar talent packages, THIS IS LEE'S TRADE VALUE. Maybe we all think he's worth more, but the simple truth is that baseball GMs disagree.

If the Mariners, with Cliff Lee and Chone Figgins, play the Phillies in the World Series, I'm going to need an ambulance parked outside my house.

'Totally false rumor'? Bob Elliott is a dick.

LA Jeff: careful, those who question the wisdom of the Lee trade are being told they don't know what they are talking about.

Chris - I don't know why this is so hard to grasp? Maybe 1 team gets fleeced in a deal, but the same player getting traded twice in a matter of months for a similar package? It's just his value. If you don't want to trade him and go for it with all three, I understand and probably would do that as well. Looks like that was never in the cards though.

Chris: where'd you read that Lee had been shopped. I read Blanton had been shopped, but hadn't seen anything on Lee until the Mariners deal was leaked.

LA Jeff: I think the Phillies felt that if they held onto Lee too long, they would have had even less leverage in trade as other teams would have know they had to trade him. He's the most valuable commodity they have available for trade and every other team knows it. Think about it: why would a team take your quarter horse when there's a blue blood thoroughbred in the stable?

Plus, imagine had the Phillies gone to ST with Lee and Halladay still on the roster. If they were going to move Lee, they had to do it simultaneously.

Good news... the officially announced trade for Cliff Lee DOES include Ramirez in addition to Aumont and Gillies.

Super. At least we nailed down that question.

donc: ROFL!!! :-D

ChrisInVT: If that's all Lee's worth in prospects it would have been smarter for the Phillies to keep him for 1 year @ $9 million & let him walk after. Keeping Blanton over Lee is one of the greatest mistakes in team history.

Why do people keep saying the Indians were fleeced by the Phils?

G-town - how can you say that without seeing what the prospects turn out to be? What if all 3 make the bigs and give good cheap production for 6 years? Is that worth more that 1 year of lee?

Stop being so overdramatic

Bed's Beard - did you have a problem with the Lee trade when we got him from Cleveland? Were you on the fence about it? Or, did you freakout because we got an ace without giving up any of our top 3. I was in the 3rd camp. The Lee deal was quantity over quality. if you can find analysis to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

"Keeping Blanton over Lee is one of the greatest mistakes in team history."

Is someone keeping a list of the hyperbole leading to the dumbest comments in Beerleaguer history? This trade has now provided us with at least a half dozen.

Jim Salisbury said on 97.5 that the Phils had offered Lee to the Rangers. That makes sense because the Rangers, Blue Jays, and Mariners are the only other teams in the league.

Why do people think Amaro could have gotten more? Because Dave Cameron says he's worth more? Amaro got what he wanted. Looper knows the guys in the Mariners system.

G-Town - Why do you think the Phils didn't simply non-tender Blanton?

Freddy Garcia didn't take a physical =(
Wish that rule was in effect then.

CY: The Phillies are built to win now, not 2-3 years from now. This is a cheap, half-assed move, & it pisses me off that I'm paying into it.

There are so many unknowns here. What if Lee has a bad year and puts up an ERA over 7? How will you all feel about the trade then?

What if the prospects we got for him turn out to be OK?

Halladay could turn out to be a bust, I guess, but I wouldn't put money on that.

I don't know why this is being thought of as one of the worst trades in history or that the Phillies are completely squandering the future. The system isn't as good as it was prior to the trade but it's not like it's been completely gutted.

We won't be able to really judge this trade for a few years. We're just going to have to learn to live with watching Roy Halladay pitch in a Phillies uniform, I guess.

Wouldn't Ryne Sandberg be the biggest mistake in franchise history? There's so many to pick from, I can't choose just one.

Sophist: Because they screwed the pooch.

"Looper knows the guys in the Mariners system."

This is an important point. Our front office knows these prospects. They obviously have a good idea of what they're capable of. That doesn't mean they're right... after all, no prospect is a guarantee. But it's nice to know due diligence was likely done on the prospects.

JBird: Hence phrasing it "... one of the ...". Ferguson Jenkins also springs to mind.

JBird: I'd say in terms of trades, this one won't even rank in the top 10 when it's all said and done (for bad trades).

That Sandberg was a throw-in was the biggest mistake. Green knew the players better than the organization did and totally raped them.

. . . or maybe George Bell. . . .or drafting Jeff Jackson over Frank Thomas.

G-Town Dave: Everything the Phillies do pisses you off... why would this be any different?

Or Abreu or Schilling...

JBird - I forget exactly where I read it, but I definitely read that they brought in Braunecker specifically to gauge the viability of a Lee extension because the trade for Halladay was a possibility. This was ALWAYS going to be a one or the other type of deal...There was NO WAY that Lee and Halladay were going to be on the team together.

And the other thing that makes it obvious that this was in the works prior to us hearing about it: Rosenthal's report that he had a "hunch" that the Phils were going to trade for Halladay and trade away Lee, possibly to the Mariners. You tell me what kind of "hunch" plays out like that...My guess? The Phils shopped Blanton around and found next to no interest, and simultaneously gauged Lee's market value and the M's had the best offer. Rosenthal heard about this from an anonymous source, but wasn't allowed to share that.

No official announcement on the Halladay trade until the commish approves the $6M going to the Phils. (per Jayson Stark)

I think the Lee deal is bad, but it won't destroy the franchise for a decade.

Yo, new thread.

The Rolen deal was pretty bad too. I'm holding out hope that Bud Smith makes a comeback though.

JBird: I was happy about the original Lee trade, but knew we gave up some decent pieces. I'm happy enough with the 2nd Lee trade b/c we got some decent pieces in return.

G-Towm Dave..Here's the deal... You may not post here if Roy Halladay is at least 11-4 by June 30.:) I also maintain that regardless of pitching in Safeco, Lee regresses to a 4.25 ERA. remember his crappy mid-Sept? He is prone to streakiness Which also accounts for his Aug and Oct performances. Roy streaks NOT. Sooo.. a lame duck streaky pitcher.. I think the Phils saw both factors and pulled the trigger

I have been lurking on this board for a long time and truly enjoy the informed debate that takes place here.

When it comes to worst trades in Phillies history, it seems to me that there have been alot of trades where the Phillies got very little net value: Ryne Sandberg, Fergie Jenkins, Grover Cleveland Alexander, Bobby Abreu, to name a few.

While it hurts a little bit that we have to give up a guy who won two World Series games (out of 14 total World Series wins in Phillies history), I am thinking that this one is not among the worst.

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