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Thursday, December 24, 2009


Burrell knocked in a big run of the series-clinching game 5 in '08. That should take him off that LVP list right there. I'd like to have seen a bit more explanation on how Burrell made the list.

So according to the Toronto Sun post, the Phillies wanted Gillies more than Saunders? Interesting. It says Gillies was a deal-breaker. I sure hope Looper, et al are correct on him. Apparently we liked the package from Seattle more than Montero + from the Yanks? Interesting.

I'll admit that I was wishy-washy in my support of Pat the Bat. At times his slow running, his mystery unhealing foot injury and his looking at third strikes with his bat resting on his shoulder used to make me want to scream. Other times, his smooth swing and timely hitting really won me over to his side. I was a Pat the Bat supporter during the last part of his Philly run. It was sad to see him ride by himself during the 2008 victory parade with that dog on the Budweiser beer wagon. He deserves better than what Jayson Stark did to him by ranking him among the decade's worst players.

Smoky: I read it as the Yankees didn't want to part with Montero+Joba.

Gillies better end up as an AS CF...

At this moment, I go
mike77 wrote:

1. Pujols
2. Mauer
3. Hanley
4. A-Rod


5. Youkilis
6. Howard
7. Utley

How in the world do you put Youkilis or Howard above Utley? You could maybe argue Hanley and Arod but those other two are ridiculous.

Burrell's only crime was not living up to being a #1 pick overall.

He turned into a very solid ballplayer on a championship team instead of a superstar and some people will never forgive him for that.

.363 OBP and 260+ HRs as well as being a very solid RH bat in the lineup for 9 years...I'll take that.

Free-agent pitcher Justin Duchscherer has agreed in principle to a one-year, guaranteed major league contract with the Oakland Athletics, a baseball source told

The deal could be worth about $5.5 million if Duchscherer attains his incentives, the source said.

The list is dwindling...

I also was shocked and dismayed by Burrell's name on the LVP list. However, reading about Juan Gonzalez' decade-long robbery spree makes me more convinced than ever about the evils of a guaranteed contract.

NEPP - Frankly I'm wondering about the "drop-off." Utley has better stats than both Youkilis and Ramirez (talking OPS+, career and over the last few years). He's a better fielder than Ramirez (by far) and a better base-runner than Youk. A-Rod is interesting because of his age. Will he repeat 2009 or is he aging into a decline? It's hard to know. If I were gonna place a "drop-off" on the list, I would place it between Pujols and everybody else.

I hope Stark had Eckstein on the list above Burrell. I'll check now. But if Eck gets fewer LVP points because he's "scrappy" I think I'll lose my lunch.

And what about Adam Eaton? How valuable was he over the decade?

Ramirez is a better hitter but he should be a corner OF, not a SS. He's atrocious in the field....well, he's below average now, not as atrocious as he used to be.

Utley should be ahead of him thanks to his defense if nothing else...same as Arod now (if its a real decline).

As I thought. Stark evidently believes Eckstein was more valuable than Burrell.

(And all the BLs say: )


Clearly, Stark's main criteria was "Did this guy get paid as much more (percentage wise?) than he was worth during the '00s as I did?" Perhaps someone needs to write a LVSW ("Least Valuable Sports Writer") list for Jason.

Perhaps someone needs to write a LVSW ("Least Valuable Sports Writer") list for Jason.

1. Jon Heyman


Yes, if only Burrell could have lived up to the careers of Josh Hamilton, Kris Benson, Darin Erstad, Delmon Young, Matt Bush, and Brien Taylor.

There are some solid #1 picks, but Burrell was a solid #1. My guess is that this has more to do with that contract he signed following his huge early year.

Phils must have thought pretty highly of SEA prospects if they could have had either Montero or Joba. If this League move was part of the deal, maybe it was TOR that wanted Joba. He and Morrow are in similar places (starter/reliever), although Morrow has a longer injury history.

Stark seemingly based his LVP analysis on a club's return from the players salary.

Burrell garnered his hefty contract on the promise and production displayed during his breakout 2002 season. The perception is that the majority of the time he did not live up to that promise while being limited in the number of innings played.

My perception is he was slugger provided he caught a pitch right down the pike. Something that he was called out on by Billy Wagner and Charlie Manuel.

I don't think LVP is remotely appropriate but he was mostly infuriating.

Meant to say HOF #1 (Griffey, JR., Mauer, ARod, Chipper) with Burrell a solid #1.

27 million for 2 years....yes 27 million!....thats why Pat the Bat is on the list and deservedly so

Just look how many months in those two years he batted under .200 and you'll see why.

He had some clutch hits and he is a great guy....but I think Stark was using the $$ to determine this list

in the off-season
Jason Stark spills more doody
silly silly list

****Just look how many months in those two years he batted under .200 and you'll see why. ****

Do we really need to get into the "every player not named Pujols goes into slumps like that" discussion again.

On another note, sportscaster and ex-WFIL 560 DJ George Michael has passed away at 70.

The real problem is stoopid lists. Maybe Stark should have said "List of Players that I Subjectively Believe were Overpaid." Then I wouldn't have a quibble. But really, compared to the "harm" he did for the money, where should be Burrell be relative to Eaton or any other guy who got dropped out of baseball as a sunk cost?

Stark is simply being silly.

"Phils must have thought pretty highly of SEA prospects if they could have had either Montero or Joba."

The Phils wanted Montero and Joba; the Yanks refused. I'll post the link to the story since people seem to be misunderstanding the bit I posted:

Yanks still love Cliff Lee

Darren Dreifort?

That would have been a great deal for us...Montero takes over 1B when Howard leaves and Joba to the BP.

Montero might not really be a catcher but he's a hell of a hitter.


As I said previously, I'm all for getting things done. Aamaro said the "pen was his #1 priority, I believe, but he saved it for last. That's what worried me. If you READ what I post (instead of drawing to your own negative conclusions, just because it's me), you would have recalled that I said I wnat guys who can pitch and who're not ancient. I never said anything about a "big name" guy.

Right now, it appears we have agrred to terms with ONE reliever and we THINK it's Baez. If so, fine. There will be more.

What you seem to misundertand is that while RAJ was right on cue for taking care of 3B and the bench, the Hallady and Lee trades could have waited a little bit. I keep saying over and over, but people do not listen, that Halladay was coming here anyway. Get it? This was his first choice and all RAJ had to do was find a way to make it work and he did. I said he's been a very good GM (or did you forget that too?).

Now, as far as the rest of the 'pen, how do we know Mathieson is ready? We don't. We need another RH guy and 1 LH guy. If Romero returns healthy and the other lefty is Bastardo, then fine. RAJ is going inexpensive in the 'pen and I posted that it was always about the money with this team. But I will NOT continue to debate this with you. You have your opinions and I have mine. We all do. So, if you disagree with me I have no problem with that. Just because you disagree doesn't make you right and me wrong. Or vice-versa.

Duchscherer re-signed with Oakland and Smokie Joe posts "The list is dwindling....", which has been my whole point all along. But you say nothing in regards to that. But me, you jump all over. You continue to get personal. I won't. End of debate.

"...makes me more convinced than ever about the evils of a guaranteed contract."

A better system is the NFL's, where-in if a player's injured he can be dumped tout-court. That's justice.

GSS - I meant they perhaps could have had one of the two. In fact, they asked for both and that was refused. Getting one or the other is a smaller price. I was just thinking about possibilities from what was reported (not usu. a good idea).

Not sure it's entirely fair to look at two years of a 6 year deal. The Phils never made a 2/27 contract to Burrell. They made a 6/50. They may have paid him $18M to hit .250/.367/.507, 33 HR in '08, but that same deal had them paying him $7M to hit .281/.389/.504, 32 HR in '05.

Something else: fangraphs has Burrell's value in dollars in '08 as $14.4M. His value over the course of the $50M contract as $59.4M.

If the Phils weren't really interested in Duchscherer, is the list really dwindling for them?

Sorry, Phils paid Burrell $14.3M in '08 not $18M. He was actually worth that price according to fangraphs. Considering that he helped the team win a WS, I'd guess that, if anything, fangraphs undervalues him.

Sophist: I think most of us agree that Burrell did a heck of a job in his years here for us. But Rube had the foresight to see that he was done. He can't play the OF anymore and he goes into long slumps.

Frankly, the Rays are paying for it now. He had a horrid 2009 campaign and you know things have really gone down the tubes when you read he is being discussed in trade talks for bad contracts such as Bradley and Castillo from the Metropolitans.

What is Milton Bradley doing on that list? What is Johjima doing on that list? He's not a horrible player.

It must be too much Christmas cheer, but I must admit that I agree 100% with MVPTommyD's last post.

"How in the world do you put Youkilis or Howard above Utley?"

Your original post was who was better right now, regardless of age or contract.
I put Youkilis ahead of Utley because he is a better hitter than Utley RIGHT NOW(the last two seasons). Youkilis is also a plus defender a two different positions.
I know saying Howard is better than Utley is a losing proposition on Beerleaguer. Somehow, for every other argument for/against players, OPS+ always wins out. Somehow on BL, Howard having the higher OPS+ and protecting Utley in the lineup, does'nt matter.

"You could maybe argue Hanley and Arod but those other two are ridiculous."

No more ridiculous than saying Chase Utley is the 3rd best player in Baseball.

Escuse me. Above comment was mikes77phillies, not m.

Lake Fred: Thank you, sir.

DPatrone & Smoky Joe: Why do you expect us to sign a starter? The rotation is pretty much set. We are going to sign 2-3 more relievers and then the offseason will be complete. Rube has about $3-5 million to spend on 3 bullpen hands.

The math is pretty simple. One(or two if we don't resign Eyre) of the following will be in the bullpen out of Bastardo/Mathieson/Escalona. Then re-sign Durbin and MAYBE sign a middle of the road reliever, again if we don't re-sign Eyre.

There are no more "magic tricks" Rube is going to pull out of his hat. He upgraded the rotation, bench, and lineup. The bullpen AS IT IS NOW is upgraded with Lidge starting fresh and Romero back. So all this nonsense that we need a huge bullpen signing is garbage IMHO.

tommy - where in that post did I argue that the Phils should have resigned Burrell? I was responding to Bret's post.

How do you figure?

He's a great hitter and the best defensive 2B in baseball for the past 5 seasons.

That's pretty impressive.

NEPP: I assume you are joking with this statement "the best defensive 2B in baseball for the past 5 seasons."

Although with you, it's hard to tell, given some of the monstrously stupid posts you've made over the years.

Oh, and Merry Christmas.

Nepp: Chase Utley is a great player, there is no disputing that. But, he is not the 3rd best player in baseball regardless of age, as you stated.
He is not better than Hanley Ramirez, he is not better than A-Rod, and there are at least 10 other players in MLB that are right there with him.
And please, with this best defensive 2nd baseman in the game. He is not, regardless of what Dewan's plus/minus says. He is not a better fielder than Brandon Phillips in anyway shape or form.


I don't expect the Phils to sign a starter. I was told they were interested in Marquis and that they were quietly trying to get Moyer to retire. If I gave the impression that they were gonna sign a starter, my apologies. I have no problem with Moyer as the #5. I'm sure he will be healhy.

I agree that with a guarantee of ~8 million. There's no way he's not in the rotation. In fact, I'm on record saying that we should get 60 - 70 wins form our starters, with this offense.

Believe me, I'm much more concerned about the 'pen as you know.

On an un-related note, sorry to read that George Michael passed away. I remember listening to him and all of the other boss jocks (as they used to call themselves)on 'FIL when I was a kid. I believe he was doing sports work in the DC area.

Just classic Clout right there folks.

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