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Thursday, November 19, 2009

Comments

Great analysis Jason and very fair.

I also think DeRosa will be overpaid by whomever signs him.

Aging player.
Pedestrian offense.
Declining defense.
Overpaid contract.

Count me out.

Something I've wondered: would the Phils ever think of bringing back Feliz on a much cheaper deal and then trying to bring in DeRosa as a super utility guy?

Hmmm... I think I meant to say "whoever."


enrico: DeRosa will get P-A-I-D this offseason. He'll be much too expensive to be a utility guy.

This move away from Feliz at third base has never made sense to me. I understand that he is easily the most undisciplined hitter in the league. But of all the resasons we lost games last year, Feliz' play was not one of them. Consider all of our more pressing needs - bullpen, bench, and even a starter - this move make no sense. And every potential replacement for Feliz (Figgins aside) has some kind of baggage. This is sort of like invading Iraq because the guys who attacked us were in Afghanistan.

rom the previous thread:

"yet he hits for low batting average with only middling power."

bap, you are costing yourself some credibility here.

Seriously, take a look at these numbers:

.259 .331 .409 .739
.260 .331 .413 .744
.266 .334 .423 .757
.265 .334 .427 .761
.262 .330 .414 .744

1 : 33.52

and these:

.267 .336 .428 .764
.268 .336 .420 .756
.271 .338 .423 .761
.275 .339 .437 .776
.268 .330 .424 .755

1 : 34.27

The top numbers are the NL for the last 5 years, with the avg. number of AB per HR for the league for the entire 5 yr period.

The bottom numbers are for the AL.

So, what you are saying is that Benny Frank's BA, which is basically league average for the last five years is low?

What you are also saying is that a guy who hits for significantly better than average power based on HR/AB has "middling power"?

Do you even bother to look at numbers before you post nonosense like that?

Because....that's what it is - nonsense.

I continue to be baffled, although I shouldn't be, by Beerleaguer posters who act as though acquiring another SP would be easy as pie.

You can argue whether or not the Phils need one, but the fact is, given what's available, the Phils are not in a position to acquire one, at least not one who'd be an upgrade over what they've got now.

Amaro isn't focusing on SP because it's not doable. He's focused on 3B, the bench and the bullpen because that IS doable.

I'd be fine with DeRosa as Bruntlett's replacement, nothing more.

jw: Agree with you about DeRosa. I'm pretty unenthusiastic about the move.

If the Phillies consider Figgins & Beltre to be too rich for their tastes, I'd much rather see them try to trade for a younger third baseman like Chase Headley, Kevin Kouzmanoff, or Andy LaRoche.

Jason, good analysis.

DeRosa would not be my first choice.

Your analysis reminds me of the definition of insanity that ends with "and expecting a different result".

sonofjake, in addition to Iraq, it's also makes as much sense as letting the goverment take over healthcare when they haven't run any program very well:

Soc. Security - going broke
Medicare - going broke
Post Office - going broke

and the list goes on.

awh: Great point. Thank God nothing big in the private sector goes broke, like banks, insurance and mortgage companies or automakers or we'd really be in a fix!

Jason makes excellent points. I like DeRosa a lot...as a utility guy. And it certainly doesn't look like he'll settle for that kind of money. If we had a thirdbaseman a year or two away that would be one thing, but we don't. We need a longer term answer. It will be interesting to see the difference in what DeRosa and Beltre eventually get. I'd much rather get a 30 year old guy whom we could count on for a couple of years. Thumbs down on DeRosa. I prefer Beltre to all others.

I am confused about this whole DeRosa thing. Didn't we just let go of a mediocre bat with a great glove at 3rd? Presumably either to get someone significantly cheaper (thus freeing more money for other upgrades) or else to upgrade the position. So what's the point of signing someone unless they wow us (at least compared with Feliz) or are younger and cheaper?

Frankly, I'd rather they just resign Feliz if they aren't going to get a better 3Bman. The only advantage I see to DeRosa is that he can fill in at other positions, too. (Begging the question, then who plays 3rd? Dobbs, I guess. Will Charlie even take a double hit to infield defense by playing Dobbs and DeRosa and sitting Jimmy or Chase?)

Oh, well. Guess we'll have to just see what happens. Maybe Ruben has a surprise in store, like when he got Cliff Lee.

awh: I think we've beaten the Francisco issue into the ground. He's not terrible, but I think he needs to be complemented by someone who possesses some plus skills.

I also think you're nit-picking -- and actually being somewhat disingenuous -- by quibbling with my argument that Ben Fran hits for average power. He has hit 1 homer every 27.7 ABs for his career. Ok, that's somewhat better than the precise league average. But on a bell curve distribution, I think Francisco's power numbers pretty clearly fall within the "average" range.

I should add that I have no idea what salary DeRosa will command - maybe he will save us $4 off what we paid Feliz?? In which case the change would at least make fiscal sense.

clout, excellent point also.

And what's they key link between your post and mine?

Before we all get out blood pressure up over this DeRosa report, has anyone else considered that this could be disinformation leaked by the Phils FO or and agent?

It's why they call it the "rumor mill".

"I'd be fine with DeRosa as Bruntlett's replacement, nothing more. "

I agree with Bay Slugga's view, I heard this last night on the news and hoped that he was the bench upgrade solution and not the everyday 3B solution.

awh: It's always possible that the Phillies are throwing DeRosa's name out there as misdirection. But, after 35 years of following the Phillies, I've developed a sixth sense for discriminating between the true rumors and the garbage. Like Helms, Feliz, and Nunez before him, DeRosa is a cheap fringe starter, better suited for backup duty. He's also old, is considered a good clubhouse/character guy, comes from New Jersey, and has been linked to the Phils in the past. This rumor has the distinct smell of truth to it.

Most information is leaked by a player's agent.

I'm not high on DeRosa for the reasons listed, although it should be noted that he was injured in the second half last year. We could sign an oft injured guy, but I don't think that offensive output in the second half is representative.

As low as I am on DeRosa, I'm way, way lower on Feliz. I just don't know what people here think he'll deliver next year. His range is decreasing defensively and he can't hit a lick. He's only getting worse. Just look at his second half numbers. The guy is cooked.

bap: My quibble is with your assertion that simply having average power seems unacceptable for a 4th OF. I'd hazard a guess that most 4th OFs have below average power.

I think Francisco is an above-average 4th OF simply because he doesn't have any glaring weaknesses. He can play adequate defense in all three OF positions. He's got some pop with his bat. He's got above-average running ability.

Amaro said he wanted to boost offense at 3rd. So far the names I have seen do not convince me there would be much of an upgrade.
I would try to talk Pedro back for less than 5mil and start looking for next years 3rd basemen. NOW.
Do the phils have any 3rd basemen on the pharm with any projections in the near future?

As Amaro Jr. said, 3B supply is larger than demand, so technically, prices should be lower. However, again, unless the FO really believe Feliz's defense is severely over-rated by the market, there is a market of only 2 possible upgrades -- Beltre and Figgins. And it was easy to see from the get-go that they both had leverage and could get some team to over pay. Glaus and DeRosa are possible upgrades, but both are significant health risks and in DeRosa's case, will distastefully require a multi-year contract for an aged player.

Basically, not all supply is equal. I'm thinking the Amaro Jr. misjudged the market on this one.

bap, you are right in that it's being beaten to death.

You are wrong about the bell curve 'average'.

check and see how many players average 1/27.7.

I think the phrase "marginal upgrade" is appropriate on this rumored replacement. Better hitter, I'm sure, 2d half of '09 notwithstanding. I am pretty dubious about the prospects of a 35 year 3B equalling or exceeding past performance. Hell, the guy is older than Feliz, isn't he? Maybe Feliz has more miles on him in terms of innings but, I tend to see that as a point for Feliz.

TNA: You think Feliz is the 3rd best 3B on the market? Behind only Beltre and Figgins?

Are you kidding?

Slam dunk analysis, JW. Turned my ambivalence to DeRosa into outright dislike.

And yet, he's an improvement on Feliz nonetheless.

Was I the only one to have flashbacks when JW mentioned Bell and Helms in his post ?

Scared me more than the Gnome picture with the Lucy-in - the Sky eyeballs!

Of course, if DeRosa comes cheap, it's a livable signing--particularly if the savings are spent intelligently elsewhere.

I agree with board cheerleader CJ ("All Phillies are great! Yaaay!") on Francisco. He's an above average 4th outfielder. BAP, I'm not sure why you think his defense is below average since his rep is for above-average D. He doesn't steal many bases, but he's got good speed, decent range, doesn't make errors and has an above-average arm. On offense he's got a balanced split and decent pop.

I didn't see him much in Cleveland, but from what I saw of his short time with the Phillies I'd say he's a guy who's a pretty easy out for good pitchers, but quite dangerous against league-average and worse. In other words, a very solid 4th OF type.

This could be interesting:

#mlb "The Yankees, ever so quietly, are letting teams know that RF Nick Swisher is available."

http://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/5863286864

Here's another puzzling thing: The prevailing view on Beerleaguer is that DeRosa would not be much of an upgrade over Feliz on offense.

OPS+ past 5 years
Feliz: 85 79 80 81 81
DeRosa 97 108 101 117 99

In other words, DeRosa's WORST year was 14 OPS+ points higher than Feliz's BEST year. There are some strange, strange ways on thinking of this blog.

clout: agreed, everyone just throws out they want a top of the rotation starter like they grow on trees. Very few options are out there, pretty much beginning and ending with John Lackey in my eyes.

Sophist, as far as preferring Feliz, you make a good point about his age inevitably leading to decreased range, and his terrible offensive numbers. I think it's a case of "the devil you know..." I'm reluctant to replace someone I know has pretty good defense with someone whose offensive production is not significant enough to outweigh them being a downgrade defensively.

I have liked DeRosa in the past, but I was thinking of him as a utility player. However, I will admit I can't say how good DeRosa would be as our everyday third baseman, nor as our 7-hole hitter. But I'll have to give the FO some benefit of the doubt for knowing what they are doing and for actually trying to improve the club as Ruben has stated. It's just too easy to doubt!

I saw mention earlier today of the Phils potentially having interest in a trade for Brandon Inge,who at $6.6M is affordable.

You win a championship and get back to the series the following season and everyone starts talking like Yankees fans: "Just go out and get us an ace."

If only it were that easy. And I'm with those who say they'll stop watching baseball if the NYY somehow manage to land Lackey and Halladay. I don't think they have the prospects to get the latter and will the ballpark size at all affect the former? Probably not since the Yanks are always willing to overpay. Who else could land Lackey? I know the Mets will want him but do they have the funds to acquire him?

"there is a market of only 2 possible upgrades -- Beltre and Figgins."

This is laughably false. Feliz would be the worst starting 3B in baseball next season if given the chance.

Braves shopping Lowe or Vasquez

Not sure i'd want to give up a top prospect for either of these guys with their age and $$ owed, and we don't really have many "middle" prospects right now other than very young guys.

Brandon Inge? Please. Too much to even hope for.

Doesn't Inge have some bum knees?

just like to go on record for sharing Sophist's Felizhate. Well put.

"I think Francisco is an above-average 4th OF simply because he doesn't have any glaring weaknesses."

This comment amused me, only because it perfectly encapsulates the difference between CJ and me. CJ likes Francisco because he has no stand-out weaknesses. I dislike Francisco because he has no stand-out strengths. Just an amusing observation. Not casting aspersions in any way . . .

My final word on this worn-out subject is this: my original statement was simply that I am underwhelmed by Francisco. He is, to be sure, an ok reserve. But reserves tend to be used situationally. The pitcher leads off and you want a pinch hitter who can get on base. There's a man on 2nd & you want a guy who can get a hit. You're removing Ibanez and you want a guy who can play good defense. Pedro Feliz, er, Mark DeRosa is on 1st base and you need a pinch runner. You're down by a run & you need a homerun. Francisco comes up average in all of these situations. That's fine on an overall basis, but isn't really fine when it comes down to the many specific situations in which a bench player is often needed. He is a generalist in a role which very often calls for a specialist.

Since 2006, DeRosa has played exactly 2 games at SS. He is not a utility INF and would not be signed as one here, if he is signed.

clout, "a solid 4th OF type". Yep.

I'm amazed bap can't grasp that simple concept.

Amazed.

didn't inge bat like .230 last year?

bap: Matt Stairs was a "specialist." I'll take Ben Francisco.

The only way that Amaro "misjudged" the market is if he gets completely desperate. No team is going to pay Feliz $5M/year next year. He would be fortunate to get half of that in base with some decent incentive potential (say $2.5M + $500k in potential incentives).

Supposedly Feliz was incredibly pissed at Amaro and the Phils for not picking up his option but he can can huff & puff all he wants. My bet is that he likely won't get a guaranteed full-time starting job at 3B and will be floating around in this market well into late Dec/Jan.

The only question is would he come back to the Phils at a significant pay cut if he has the opportunity to start again. Given his initial reaction, I tend to doubt it.

Doesn't Inge have a lifetime batting average under .250?

BTY - I wouldn't mind seeing Feliz back as a "starter" next year at 3B at around $2.5M or so. Even with the $500k buyout, that is another $2M that Phils can use for the bench and bullpen. That's is probably at least one player who can really contribute or 2-3 players who can provided some needed positional/AAA depth.

Inge K'd 170 times last season. I have a hunch many BLers will be wishing they had Feliz back-at least he put the ball(weakly) into play.

I know I am late to this party but as I have said since the beginning. I agree with MG's last post that I am for bringing Feliz back if the deal is 1 yr/2.5 Mil. But if he wants more, the BEST option is getting Beltre for a 3 yr/22-24 million deal. Beltre is the a good fit for this team. A good clubhouse guy, hardworker, young, has a bat and a good glove. To me he is the winner. Forget about DeRosa, Tejada, Glaus and all these other guys.

Also, Beltre is the favorite I believe due in part to the Ibanezand Gillick connection to him as well.

I have no interest in Derosa.

Inge is a pretty good player overall.

MG: I'm struggling to imagine any scenario in which it would be better for the team to have Feliz back as starter at 3B next year over the available alternatives.

clout: In response to MG's post regarding Feliz. The scenario that would be worth it is the term "saving money to apply to another need". I know by now that you don't believe there is such thing as a "budget". But trust me and others when we say, it exists. And it will be around $140 million.

Inspired and first line written by Pete Happy.

Heidi: Enough of that boring baseball talk sweetie, now go out and make some commercials, Mommy needs to go shopping!

Cole: I have some bad news for you, honey. My agent says the commercial opportunities have all but disappeared. He's got a pawn shop that wants to use me as a pitchman and one of those pay day loan places is interested in using me if the economy keeps tanking, but as unemployment increases, less people have pay days.

Heidi: You can't expect me to shop at Walmart!

Cole: Well, the pawn shop guy says we can get some great bargains at his store.

Heidi: Go take Trixie for a walk, you bum!

mvptommyd: Now I'm struggling to understand how saving $2M, which is about the maximum you could save by re-signing Feliz, will make such a huge differnce on another need.

clout: That $2 million would be used to sign Eyre or a bench guy like Hairston Jr..

I told of of you before, Beltre is the best fit but DeRosa will be the guy because of the money. That's the way they operate. They think DeRo can do a better job than Feliz and that's who they'll get. Everybody's gonna be pissed (icl. me) but that's the way it is. It's the Wes Helms situation (though slightly better) all over again. And it doesn't take Einstein to figure it out.

clout: Again, We need to fill 7 spots (3rd base, 3 bullpen and 3 bench players) with around $21 Million. Now,surely you understand the more money you can cut spending in one position like signing Beltre for $7 million instead of Figgins for $10 million. Or signing Feliz for $2.5 million instead of Beltre for $7 million would give you more flexibility and allow you to sign better players elsewhere right?

DiPatrone: I disagree. Why would they sign DeRosa for $5-7 million per year when they could get a better and younger player in Beltre for $6-8 million? That doesn't make sense.

According to your theory the Phillies would have signed a 2nd tier guy who was cheaper instead of Ibanez last year. I think the days of going 2nd tier are over.

If I was an older player, like all the ones Rube likes, I'd pick playing for the Phillies as a role player than probably doing the same for teams like the Royals or Orioles.

"If I was an older player, like all the ones Rube likes"

This is the 5th or 6th time this week I have read this quote by posters. What exactly does this mean? Who are all the "old" players Rube "likes"?

mvptommy: Scott Hairston would be a major upgrade over Feliz as starting 3B. If that's who you think we can get, skip Feliz altogether and save even more money.

MVPTommy, all the guys who have enough MLB time to be free agents are all older players. That's what we're talking about.

clout: I think you mean Jerry Hairston Jr.. And he can't be the answer since he has NEVER played even a half season at 3rd abse before.

I'll say it again:
Sign Cliff Lee long-term.
Work out a deal-Hamels for Zimmerman

Replace an aging player with a mediocre bat and a good glove with another aging player who has a mediocre bat and a mezza mezza glove. Ugh.

Solid breakdown and analysis, Jason.

You can keep saying it Jimmy J, but it's not going to happen (2nd part).

clout - Easy. If they roughly have $20M or so to fill out the rest of the rotation, I say you get more bang for the buck by bringing back Feliz at $2.5M than signing a guy who is a slight upgrade but at significant dollars (say Beltre at 3 yrs/$22M).

Would I rather see Beltre at 3B and or a combination of Eeliz at 3B, Hairston-type as a backup utility INF, and another veteran bullpen arm?

I go for the 2nd scenario especially considering this team has almost zero positional depth at the middle infield position from AA and higher right now.

mvptommy: You said Hairston, no first name so that's who I thought you were talking about.

Rueben was on with Mike Miss today

http://sr950.com/Audio/tabid/183/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/5139/Phillies-GM-Ruben-Amaro.aspx

sounds like a Derosa/Dobbs platoon at 3b to me. (not a fan of that)

We have to get Halladay, trade Raul somewhere to clear salary room if you have to. Platoon Ben with someone, or just call up Taylor for LF. No reason to pay a LF who hits 6th 11mil. (love guy by the way) But you can get 25hrs 80rbi's with ben and a 2-3mil FA OF. Look who the yankees OFs were, you win with pitching, go get DOC!! because if not he's going our competiton and beating us in the playoffs

Beltre is only a slight upgrade over Feliz?

pb: You're not the first to mention trading Ibanez. The only way we get someone else to pay the remainder of Ibanez's contract is if we trade him AND other talent for "organizational depth" (see Abreu AND Lidle for a bag of balls). Considering that we are built to win now, there is zero chance of that happening.

MG: If I considered Beltre "a slight upgrade" I'd certainly agree with you.

The lack of objectivity on this blog is breathtaking, although I suppose that's the case on all fan blogs. If Feliz had never worn pinstripes, he'd be considered a joke. But on Beerleaguer he's one of the top 3Bmen in the game.

Laughable.

What's more important: 625 PA from a 3B and their defense or 100 PA from some guy on the bench (not forgetting that the Phils still have Dobbs). It's wild to me that some on here would be willing to put up with 625 PA at .260/.300/.380 (at best!) so the Phils could add a marginally better bench bat.

Maybe Figgins is asking too much, but Feliz isn't a deal at almost any reasonable price.

MVPTommy~

Don't theorize with with me. They signed Ibanez because they din't want to go after Manny. They felt Raul was their best option. And they were probably right. But they also signed him very quickly and probably for a little more than necessary. At least for 1 year and probably two, he'll be worth it.

As far as Beltre, I want him too, but his agent is Boras, whom as we all know, thinks everyone of his guys is worth moon. I agree with you that 6-8 million /year for 3 years would be a very nice contract for Beltre. But Boras will disagree, posture, and drag things out. The Phils won't play that game. I venture to say that the Phils will worry that someone else will try to sign De Rosa and jump at him. They love the guy. That's why they will sign him. And it would be a mistake. Also, don't rule out Polanco. That would be a mistake too. These 2 guys, as super-subs: yes satrters: No. But mark me, we'll get 1 of them.

pb: A year ago, Amaro was talking about a possible platoon in left field involving Dobbs. Don't believe it.

I think its interesting how quickly people jump up to rip Rube considering his short but very impressive track record as GM.

All indications point to this being a very rough market for players. Rube would be smart to sit back and watch the market develop and then swoop in and snag some bargains. He might be able to make some killings if he plays it right. We'll likely have more money to spend than almost any other NL team and most AL teams not based in Bos/NY.

"Feliz would be the worst starting 3B in baseball next season if given the chance."

Rumors are that Baltimore is set to give him that chance. From their standpoint, he's a cheaper alternative to Mora, though I'm surprised they're willing to sacrifice so much offense given their search for any and all corner infielders with any kind of pop.

awh: Do I have this right -- someone is around the league average, but you object to calling him "middling"? Isn't that the definition of the word?

DPatrone: How's your experience dealing with Boras been?

Beltre is an upgrade defensively and offensively from Feliz. Shouldn't have said slight. Still, is the value that Beltre brings you over Feliz worth $6-$7M more next year? I say no especially with a pot of about $18-$20M to fill 7 roster spots including 3B.

Bullpen was and remains the principal weak spot on this team going into next season because of the lack of bodies back there and the question marks surrounding the health of Lidge & Romero.

Everyone almost automatically assumes that these two guys will be healthy and effective next year. I would bet that at least one isn't and maybe both aren't.

Phils have been awfully quiet on Lidge in general since his surgery which found more damage than the initial MRI did. Normally timetable from Lidge's injury according to Stark and others put Lidge's return sometime in mid-to-late April. Certainly doesn't mean he can contribute but I do have some real doubts that Lidge is going to be able to be an effective closer next year for the entire year. It was the biggest weakness on the team this year and likely will remain so next year.

"Who are all the "old" players Rube 'likes'?"

Well, Ibanez (36 when signed). Moyer (46 when signed). Pedro (almost 38). Bako (almost 37). Eyre (almost 37). Rodrigo Lopez (34). Chan Ho Park (35). Tyler Walker (almost 33). Miguel Cairo (almost 35).

There's nothing inherently wrong with signing older players. In fact, on balance, the guys on the above list have been a lot more good than bad. But the strategy is very risky and the rewards very short-term. And it becomes considerably more risky when that old guy had declining numbers the previous year, as is the case with DeRosa.

Lincecum wins the Cy Young, sporting 15 wins--one day after Greinke wins it with 16. Times are a'changin'?

Bonus: Phil Sheridan's head exploded, so, no more of him.

Bed Beard~

You know how Boras is. Remember the J. D. debacle. The Phils offered him more money than any other college player up tp that point and he wanted 11 million. Of course that was when Wade was the GM. Now Amaro has a better relationship with him, but you know he's gonna ask for 10 mil/year for Beltre even thought he only played in 111 games last year. I fear we'll all be disappointed at what transpires very soon. I listenened to Amaro's interview with Missenelli and it certainly sounds like a De Rosa/Dobbs platoon as one of our posters pointed out.

alby: Precisely my point. Let's cut to the chase. The MLB average slugging pct. last season was .418, including pitchers. I'll assume it would be around .10 points higher if you threw out the pitchers.

Ben Fran's slugging pct. last year was .447. I'm not a statistician and can't crunch the numbers, but please don't try to tell me that, on a normal bell-curve distribution, where .428 represents the exact average, .447 falls outside the average zone. There is no way in the world that it does.

Scott Lauber also writes that De Rosa and Polanco are the Phils top target for 3b. "niff said.

Sorry, I meant "Nuff said". I won't comment on De Rosa again until it happens.

As unenthusiastic as I am about DeRosa, I'm even less enthusiastic about Polanco -- a 34-year old singles hitter who doesn't draw walks, can't run, hasn't played the position in 5 years, and has 2 straight years of badly decling batting average. That's not my idea of a good bet.

DPatrone: and Boras/Drew also told the Phillies to not pick him. THey did. They were dumb. I'm no Boras fan, but I'm not going to let that get in the way of the Phillies going after someone, especially if the Phillies, themselves, don't care. Why should I?

re: upgrading from Feliz

Here are the available 3B 'upgrades' to Feliz:

Top tier:
Figgins (32)

Second tier:
Beltre (31)

Third tier:
DeRosa (35)
Glaus (33)

Fourth tier:
Counsell (39)
Crede (32)
Kennedy (34)
Mora (38)

Fifth tier:
Uribe (31)
Feliz (35)

The difference between Feliz and anybody in the 4th and 5th tier is negligible; less than half a win in terms of value.

So the only real upgrades are Figgins, Beltre, DeRosa and Glaus. And apparently, Figgins and Beltre are out, so it's down to DeRosa and Glaus.

And Sophist, Feliz wouldn't be the worst 3B in MLB next year given the chance. I'd give that honor to someone less productive like Bobby Crosby, Greene or Fields. Of course, this is assuming that you value defense in the hot corner. If you don't, then you may have a point.

I wouldn't be a fan of a DeRosa/Dobbs platoon either. Serious lack of defense.

I say Beltre or Figgins is really the only way to upgrade and not see a big decline in defense. i'm all for Derosa but only as a bench/utility guy option. In addition to beltre or figgins. As for the bullpen, deal for Holiday and then you have he and lee going 8 innings an outing and sit back and watch the bullpen flourish by not being over-worked, especially if Cole gets straightened out. Further, having the Doc, Cliff Lee and Cole in your rotation will make the Phillies a team others will want to sign with - hard-working, many superstars (Cy youngs, MVPs, etc.) and a players manager. Brandon Lyon would be nice to add in the pen. So I say sign Beltre, trade for holiday and get some guys late on the cheap who want to win

Oh and we are forgetting about garret Atkins, i expect the phils to sign him after he is non-tendered by Colorado. maybe Amaro is thinking lock up Derosa - a character guy who had lots of big hits for the Cubs in 2008, then sign Atkins. if Atkins starts, you have derosa on the bench with fransisco, dobbs and a catcher. Anyone who say Leslie Guidel's interview with Chan Ho during the season, knows he'll be back.

This post is my sentiments exactly. DeRosa is a short-term solution at best. The Phillies have to bite the bullet here and be a buyer in a seller's market at 3B.

yo jimmy

via jayson stark
Cole Hamels' season: .273 Opp. Avg., 7.8 strikeouts per 9 IP, 1.286 WHIP
Cliff Lee's season: .272 Opp. Avg., 7.0 strikeouts per 9 IP, 1.243 WHIP

BedBeard~

I'm not saying the Phils were smart in the Drew thing. I'm simply pointing out that Boras plays a lot of games and that the Phils may get frustrated with that if they made a serious run at Beltre and thus sign someone else instead.

But regardless, they need to get younger at that position. Beltre, Kouzmanoff, Atkins are all much younger than DeRo or Polanco. And it doesn't appear that they will address 3B via trade so Kouz is out. Will they wait for Atkins to be released? Don't know, but I doubt it. So, that brings them back to the guys they're looking at and to all of us, neither of them are viable. Neither is Glaus because of age.

Let me touch on Figgins too briefly. I don't think that he's a target of theirs' and I certainly woudn't pay the kind of money he want. Mostly because he's not a power guy playing a power position. Love his speed and OBP but his lack of power is a turn-off for me.

from jayson stark:

Cole Hamels' season: .273 Opp. Avg., 7.8 strikeouts per 9 IP, 1.286 WHIP

Cliff Lee's season: .272 Opp. Avg., 7.0 strikeouts per 9 IP, 1.243 WHIP

Atkins is bordering on lousy.

I have trust in Ruben.

He'll do what needs to be done and probably not spend as much as you would think to do it.

He has a team and coaching staff that players want to play for and a winning group of players with a loyal fanbase. And its one of the best teams in baseball.

He has got the hammer to get what he wants and probably will.

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EST. 2005

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