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Sunday, September 20, 2009

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Lidge got squeezed bad. ANother day, another run, another excuse.

Great game, great series. OK, let the complaints about Lidge begin!

From the previous thread:

Doohickey, if the Phils split with the Fish, the Fish are done.

Even one win in FLA seriously hurts the Marlins' chances.

After the win Friday, the Fish and Braves were so far back that if the Phils went 8-8, neither team could have caught them.

Now, a 7-7 finish will do the same thing.

Basically, the Phils are playing for home field advantage right now.

EF, 6-6?

I thought the Phils had 14 games left.

Everyday Clay is back!

Does anyone else think that the McCann atbat (runner on second, two down) was the perfect time to drill him in the back? I know it's dangerous from the standpoint that it brings of the tying run to the plate (which happened anyway). I guess even if the worst happened and they tied it, I would have been OK with that, as long as McCann got nailed in the back with a 95 mph FB.

***OK, let the complaints about Lidge begin!***

I, for one, am beyond discussing it.

Since getting swept by the Fish in August, this team is 26-13, winning 10 out of 12 series (swept by Houston, lost 2 of 3 to Pirates).

So if Phils go 6-8 in their last 14, and Marlins & Braves both go 12-0, Phils are still in, right? Time to start resting some people, specifically Utley & Howard.

SmokyJoe: Why would the Phils drill McCann in the back?

Yeah, I meant 6-8.

CJ, for pure pleasure and enjoyment.

The first inning had me wondering if UFC had barnstormed Atlanta. But, hey, it worked out.

SmokyJoe: I wouldn't have enjoyed it. I don't get all this talk about throwing at a Braves player. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not like their pitchers threw at us. And even if they did, they're irrelevant... why make them feel relevant by getting in some kind of beanball war. The Braves might as well be the Nats or the Mets... no reason to make them think any different.

Luckily, the Phils decided to finish the game and win instead of starting a brawl.

Phils just announced that Myers may have a shoulder strain and will see the doc on Tuesday.

Vic has gotten some decent rest over the past 4 days. I'd love for Feliz to get some rest while Dobbs got a chance to work on his game.

Remaining Schedules:

PHI:
at FLA (3)
at MIL (4)
vs. HOU (4)
vs. FLA (3)

FLA:
vs. PHI (3)
vs. NYM (3)
at ATL (3)
at PHI (3)

ATL:
at NYM (3)
at WAS (3)
vs. FLA (3)
vs. WAS (4)

Florida and Atlanta playing each other makes things even easier for the Phillies - they can't both win. Florida having 6 games against the Phils likely gives them a better shot (though Atlanta clearly has the easier schedule). Basically so long as the Phils aren't swept in Miami this week, they are locks and even then it would still take some doing. Tuesday's DH is the key - split and they should be fine; sweep the Fish and you basically put them away. Lose both games and then Wednesday's becomes much more important.

BENTZ: Phils wrapped up the division more than a month ago. Getting swept by the Fish wouldn't change that.

Old Phan, wise words for the young bucks here to heed. Very wise words.

awh, I figure if you really want to watch a brawl, be patient. Hockey season will be upon us soon.
Seriously, there is never a good reason to throw at another player, but certainly a team as good as the Phillies have no reason to do it. They send a message by winning.

Walker has been done a great job considering he was at the bottom of the BP totem pole for a long time as the "fill-in" guy. Hours after he was released by Seattle at the end of spring training, I posted on BL that the Phillies should take a flier on him if the price was right because he might be serviceable for 30-40 innings as a ROOGY once he got healthy and eventually be more effective than Condrey (who has unfortunately been injured). Although he's pitched most of his 30 innings in low leverage situations, he's definitely been an effective gap-filler. That said, even though he's actually been more effective against righty bats than lefty bats this year, I hope Manuel doesn't make the mistake he made with Romero, who should have been overwhelmingly used as a LOOGY (but was kept in against righties to the team's detriment). Walker's a good backend BP ROOGY piece, but not too much more.

Whoops - Meant to state that Walker has actually been more effective against lefty bats than righty bats. But Manuel should probably still use him as a ROOGY in higher-leveraged situations.

Every important divisional series late in the season, for two seasons in a row the Phils have won. When they need two out of three, they get it.

Until this team fails to deliver when the chips are down, there's no reason to doubt they're going to get it done.

In a weird way, especially since we won, the rain delay was a good thing. Lee had only threw 52 pitches in 4 innings. Got him some rest.

Diaz, Prado, and McCann feasted on the Phillies this year. McClouth was a good pickup, as was LaRoche. Their starting pitching is great, and the bullpen not bad. I'm not sure how they don't have a better record. It's almost as if Chipper was a key reason that they aren't going to the post-season.

what about Sergio Escalona?

the kid's got good stuff..

OT, but why would any team sign a guy like Milton Bradley, especially to a multi-year contract. Just saw that he has been suspended for the rest of the season.

didn't walker give up an hr against McCann in this series?

& UC had Sergio in the bp?

Old Phan: Because Jim Hendry is a horrible gm. I mean, when your talking about limited resources in the offseason because the cubs sale had yet to go through, why oh why, would you devote those precious resources to the human game board?

"Every important divisional series late in the season, for two seasons in a row the Phils have won. When they need two out of three, they get it."

Did lose 2 of 3 to the Braves in the next to last series last year.

mm, several posters advocated getting Bradley in the offseason, and some went as far as proclaiming they would much rather have Bradley than Ibanez. Some of those same posters were willing to spend whatever it took to get Soriano a couple of years ago, but it looks like the Cubs ended up bidding against themselves and overpayed to the point that it's tough to tell which is the worse contract: Soriano or Wells.

Bradley over Ibanez? I'd rather sign Adam Eaton to another contract then sign Bradley.

Yes Old Phan. Bradley actually had good numbers last year. The argument was that he was younger and right-handed. Some people take "the numbers" as the end-all/be-all, and don't consider things such as fit and chemistry as that important. In any case, it's easy to make a judgment in hindsight.

Smoky, Bradley has been a problem character for a long time, numbers notwithstanding. Not saying he isn't talented, but he isn't worth the problems he causes.

Bradley is the winner of the 2008-9 Offseason "When Will His Contract Come Off the Books?" Award.

Rumor has it that Lidge will pitch a clean inning this year.

If I'm manager, I wouldn't be ok with the Braves plunking my batters every night.

Who would get hurt in the ensuing brawl, Lidge?

no reason to plunk the Braves. Why stir them up on getaway day?

Technically, Pedro hit Escobar last night, and Escalona got someone from Atlanta today, but they were both off-speed pitches. Howard and Francisco got drilled by heaters. Not exactly an even exchange, but I'm sure Charlie didn't want to risk losing the game today.

That being said, McCann became quite unlikable after his comments after the first game of the series when they were at CBP, so there would be a certain amount of enjoyment watching him get drilled.

Scott: I get my enjoyment out of McCann watching us in the playoffs while he's on the golf course :-)

In year's past, maybe this team throws at someone, but we're the champs. We get to act like the champs. A team like the Braves doesn't matter to us.

RE: Lidge. We've all complained about him all year long, nothing new to add to the general chorus of boos.

But here's a constructive criticism to offer (as long as we're going to be using him, anyway): Brad -- when you have the inevitable runner on first in the ninth inning, try tossing the ball over to your teammate Ryan Howard every once in a while. It's called a "pickoff," and it works to great effect, especially when baserunners on first are so primed to run on you that they're barely even paying attention to you.

For the record...

That wasn't a stolen base in the 9th. In fact, I'm not sure Howard was even holding the runner on. It was defensive indifference. When McCann got on, they didn't really hold him on either, playing Howard half way.

I'm not suggesting that Lidge is good at holding runners on, but with 2-outs in a 3-run game, that runner at first was irrelevant.

Isn't there actually a chance that the Braves still make the playoffs as the WC? With a top-notch rotation and super-easy schedule the rest of the way, there's definitely a possibility they could overtake Colorado and we'll be playing them in October.

Division aside, I don't want to see these Bravos again this year, so I hope the Mets step it up.

Another thing, maybe I'm paranoid, but I won't breath easy until we take a game from the Fish this week. I don't understand this "the division was wrapped up a month ago" mentality." Had the Phils not taken care of business against the Mets and Nats, this race would be real tight right now.

CJ - Exactly. I don't understand why people wanted the Phils to retaliate against the Braves late today. Better to just take 2 of 3 and end their season. It is not like the Phils play the Braves again this season either.

Basically, the Braves are headed for an 84-85 win season, a number of tough questions to figure out this offseason, and the real possibility that Cox may not be back in a Braves' dugout next year.

MG, it seems like some people just want to see a bench clearing brawl. I think the best way to show the Bravos who's tougher is to point them to the sports page of the Atlanta Journal Constitution and have them check the NL East standings.

Quick question, If a player is up with the team but doesn't get in the game does it count toward there service time? Because why doesn't Charlie ever use Mayberry Jr to pinch run or field?

Shake - The Braves are 5.5 GB in the WC and 8.5 GB in the NL East with 13 games left to play. Game over.

Mayberry had a pinch double today.

Very few closers have good pickoff moves. Remember Wagner's? Best quote I ever heard from him was after one of his infamous losses to the Phils. When a reporter asked him why he didn't hold Werth, "Because everyone knows I have a crappy pickoff move and can't throw to first".

In any case, Lidge needs to concentrate on throwing strikes, not on what the runner at 1st is doing.

*Let the complaints about Lidge begin*

He is by far in a way our worst relief pitcher, and he has been given the most important job. What else needs to be said?

It's like a lawfirm sending their least effective lawyer to handle their most important clients for no reason other than the fear of anyone else doing it.

The Phillies aren't only a homerun hitting juggernaut, they also pound many balls into the gaps (oh, that sounds dirty) for doubles. They lead the NL in HR (210), doubles (219), and runs (747).

Old buddy So Taguchi got a September call-up with the Cubs and is batting a cool .500, albeit only in 4 at bats.

And have hit into the fewest DPs, at least according to the Braves TV yesterday.

And a pretty good SB percentage.

Brett Myers is hurting. See philly.com

105 sb, 22 cs for a 83% success rate, tops in MLB.

Man, these late season injuries seem to be unceasing. Last year our guys probably lucked out a bit on that score, remaining generally healthy for the most part.

Oh well, I'm sure the Mets don't have much sympathy on that score and rightfully so. Just another obstacle to be overcome.

Cholly evoked the three run rule when using Lidge, just as I predicted days ago. The three run rule is this: If the Phillies have exactly a three run lead, pitch Lidge, so he can give up a run or two and still get a save. If the Phils have a four run or mor lead, pitch Walker, Taschner, Moyer, Pwedro, who cares? If the Phils have a less than three run lead, pitch Madson.

I need to proof my work before hitting the "post" button. The sentence should read:

"If the Phils have a four run or more lead, pitch Walker, Taschner, Moyer, Pedro, who cares?"

Are the Phillies going to have enough healthy arms to stock a 10 man post season pitching staff?? Chan Ho Park (hamstring) Pedro (neck, J.A. Happ (strained side muscle), Scott Eyre (elbow), J.C. Romero (forearm) and now Myers. These are all important pitchers who are injured.


Well, for those of you who care and think it's an important stat, despite the fact that he gave up another run today, Brad Lidge had 5 swings and misses in the 10 strikes he threw.

Of course, he gave up another run today, just like before when he threw 10 strikes in 16 pitches - where he had no seings and misses.

Hmmmm, 5 more swings and misses than before and the result was the same - 1 earned run.

Posted by: awh | Sunday, September 20, 2009 at 06:21 PM


Brad Lidge explains the obvious to awh: "I was getting some swinging strikes today that I haven't had really the entire season. I think that is a big indication for me that my stuff has come all the way back."

Was there ever any follow up on why Crawford was jawing at Burrell?

curt, same result, no?


Let me share a bit of wisdom with you courtesy of two former HOF pitchers:

When asked the same question of, "What's the secret to being a succesful major league pitcher?", their (paraphased) responses were as follows:


"Get a strike on the first pitch".

"Get him to swing at YOUR pitch".


Neither one mentioned "swings and misses".

*******UPDATE*******


B*L W.E.N.:

6 more losses to 95 wins!

Shake-N-Bake 77: "Had the Phils not taken care of business against the Mets and Nats, this race would be real tight right now."

What does this even mean? The Phils did take care of business against the Mets and the Nats. That's what good teams should do. That's one of the big reasons we've already wrapped up the division.

But that's not the only reason. Over our last 39 games, we're 26-13, a .667 win percentage with 10 series wins out of the last 12 series.

The race is over. I don't care if the Marlins win all 6 games against us. We'd still have a 3 game lead in the loss column. It's o-v-e-r.

What the hell? If the Phils didn't take care of business then the race would be real tight? THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF TAKING CARE OF BUSINESS!

Another BL drama queen looking for a thunderstorm in a cloudless sky.

No surprise that Myers is injured. They used every reliever in the pen this weekend and he still didn't step foot on the mound. I wouldn't count on him for the playoffs.

From Don McKee in this morning's Inky:

Morning Report
Phils sitting pretty in NL East
By Don McKee

Inquirer Staff Writer

"It's over in the NL East, even if fans who close their eyes when Brad Lidge enters a game don't want to admit it out loud.

But consider this: If the Phillies (87-61) go only 4-10 in their remaining 14 games, they'll win 91 for the season.

And Florida (80-70) would have to win 11 of its remaining 12 just to tie.

Sayonara, Marlins."

In the homefield advantage sweepstakes, last night's Cubbies' victory over the Cardinals put the Redbirds two games behind the Phillies in the loss column, with both teams ties at 87 wins.

Only the Dodgers, with 60, have less losses than the Phillies 61.

Homefield advantage throughout the playoffs is within reach, ass-u-ming the Dodgers cooperate.

"Of course, he gave up another run today, just like before when he threw 10 strikes in 16 pitches - where he had no seings and misses.

Hmmmm, 5 more swings and misses than before and the result was the same - 1 earned run."

Is this deliberately obtuse? If Lidge is missing bats, then said bats can't drive the ball and occasionally produce hits. It also suggests that Lidge's stuff, if only for a day, is good--fooling hitters into swinging at pitches they can't hit--which, I think, is the whole point.

Does a high swing and miss ratio guarantee a ERA of 0.00? No. Over the long term is it a significant aid in keeping one's ERA under, say, 7.00? I should think so. Unless of course someone wants to argue that Lidge would experience the same kinds of results even if his K/9 was 16.

This running argument about whether "it's over" is stupid. It's over when they clinch. Until then, there is merely the remote possibility of a calamitous collapse. The task for Manuel and the team is to keep winning until it's actually over. If someone is nervous about it, that's a personal problem.

As for Lidge, he's working on getting that ERA up to 9 but, I think he's going to run out of time. I have every confidence in the world that when the playoffs start, he'll be back at 0.00.

Klaus, Lidge had SnMs yesterday, and the result was a 9.00 ERA for his one inning of work - the same as his outing that did not feature any.

My whole and only point is that SnMs - by themself - are overrated.

Klaus, let me put it too you this way:

Which it the more effective third strike - a swing-and-a-miss or a called strike?

Which is the more effective strike early in the count - a swing-and-a-miss, a called strike or a foul ball?

"to you this way"

AWH: Do you think SnMs correlates with "better stuff"? Is it better that the hitter swing at balls rather than stand and watch? Is a K, from a runs created point of view, a safer out than a line drive? Do you think a higher k/9, over the medium to long term, helps produce better results?

Let's be specific: do you think Lidge's 2008 ratios of 12 k/9 and k/bb of 2.6 to 1, in comparison to his 2009 stats of 9.5 k/9 and k/bb of 1.8, signify something significant as to why he was effective in one year and not the other?

Or, put another way, if his ratio's were flipped, would the final results (2008 vs. 2009) remain constant?

I know it doesn't help his already godawful ERA, or inspire a whole lot of confidence, when Lidge comes in & allows a run to score. But those runs in the last 2 games were basically conceded runs. The run didn't matter so the Phillies made no attempt to hold the runner on first. Of course, if the run HAD mattered, then Howard would have guarded first & the guy would have stolen 2nd anyhow, since Lidge can't hold anyone on. But we can't very well criticize Lidge for something that didn't happen.

Nonetheless, it wasn't exactly a clean save, & it certainly wasn't the type of performance that would lead anyone to believe he has turned the corner. He has had this recurring habit this year of retiring the first 2 batters easily & then getting himself into trouble. That's exactly what happened yesterday.

If Lidge is the "3-run closer," he can have an ERA of 18 and still get saves.

The best case scenario for the Phils is Lidge finding his mojo (try the secret moon base) before the playoffs start and letting Madson slip back into the 8th, and Charlie is going to give him every opportunity to do so.

To all the Ryan Howard haters out there:

The big fella is the 4th player in MLB history with 4 consecutive 40 homer, 120 RBI seasons. The others are Babe Ruth, Ken Griffey JR and Sammy Sosa.

"Which it the more effective third strike - a swing-and-a-miss or a called strike?"

Lidge's out pitch isn't his fastball. It's his slider. If hitters are swinging at his slider for strike-outs it means a) that he's getting ahead in counts (locating his fastball) and b) that the slider is effectively fooling hitters.

Now, you can look at it as an isolated instance--a K on a fastball strike, caught looking, or a K on a swing and miss. The result is the same. But that's an inane way of looking at it. If Lidge is relying on throwing fastball strikes to get hitters out, that'll will likely prove over the long haul to be a poor way of getting hitters out. The thing is, strikes are *hittable*. On the other hand, if Lidge is utilizing an out pitch that generates swings and yet more or less *can't be hit* then we should see, over the long term, fewer runs created.

This seems obvious to me.

I love all the talk about Lidge still "finding his mojo". Does anyone REALLY think that's possible? Whether it's mental, physical, whatever, he is what he is for 2009. He might be able to contribute, but super sparingly, in that he'll take the occasional harmless inning/easy save.

"I love all the talk about Lidge still "finding his mojo"."

Who's talking about that?

Klaus, as I queried you first, I'll await your answers to my questions (should be simple, really).

(To date, the display of obfuscation above has not been your modus operandi.)

Obviously, what Cholly is hoping is that, if Lidge can convert a few easy saves, it will build up his confidence to the point that he can come in and covert the tough one. But, if this stragegy doesn't show any signs of working within the next 2 weeks, I really can't imagine the Phillies carrying a guy in the playoffs whose sole role is to be the closer in 3-run situations.

It's worth noting, too, that there are only 3 or 4 more opportunities left in the season for high-leverage saves. Even a one-run save situation ain't high-leverage if you've already clinched the division & a loss doesn't really matter.

Worst-case scenario for playoff pitching (i.e. if none of the injured pitchers returns and Lidge is totally ineffective):

SP:
1. Lee
2. Hamels
3. Blanton
4. Moyer

RP:
CL-Madson
SU-Walker
Durbin
Kendrick
Condrey
Escalona
Taschner


OUCH

"Do you think SnMs correlates with "better stuff"?"

Well, to be Clintonian, that depends on what your definition of "better stuff" is.

We all know what K/9 ratios are and mean, but I have yet to see a study that differentiates "how?" a batter K'd, or the relative value to the pitcher/defense of him striking out one way or another.


"Is a K, from a runs created point of view, a safer out than a line drive? Do you think a higher k/9, over the medium to long term, helps produce better results?"

Answer to first question: Probably (haven't studied ot read any material so I can't say for sure - perhaps you can enlighten me).

Answer to second question: Yes. Period.

Still, both those questions (and answers) are not germane to the discussion, and could be considered diversionary.


"Let's be specific: do you think Lidge's 2008 ratios of 12 k/9 and k/bb of 2.6 to 1, in comparison to his 2009 stats of 9.5 k/9 and k/bb of 1.8, signify something significant as to why he was effective in one year and not the other?"

Answer: It's impossible to say - and you know it. One could argue the a K with two outs and the bases loaded with a one run lead is "more valuable" than a K without anyone on base - or with no outs with a 3 runs lead. So, to merely reverse the ratios from one year to another lacks any context in which those strikeouts occured.

To wit, last season, on June 6th, Shane Victorino "saved" a game in Atlanta by throwing out a runner (3rd out) at the plate after Lidge had given up a single with runners on 2nd and 3rd. So, would a strikeout been a more important out from a runs created point of view?

Now, to stick to the real point, to use your own language, would a K swinging - or a K looking - been from "a runs created point of view, a safer out"?


"Or, put another way, if his ratio's were flipped, would the final results (2008 vs. 2009) remain constant?"

I think I answered that above.

Still, none of those questions or answers are really germane to the point I have made:

SnWs - taken by themself(ves) - are, without context, overrated.


BAP - Conceded run was my thought. Lidge is lousy at holding runners on, as many closers are, anyway, but I do wonder what percentage of 3-run save situations result in at least one run (maybe home runs aside). It would be good to have a baseline starting point.

Of course, this is Lidge's third straight 3-run save, and his third straight save allowing a run or more. Who pitched the last clean 9th inning anyway?

At the moment, it looks like Cholly will bring Lidge in for save situations, but after the first walk or hit, he will have other s warming up and Lidge will be on a short leash. Like it or not, that's the way it is.
On a game to game basis, my first priority is the Phils winning the game. After that, I can worry about Lidge's stats. I don't care how it gets is done as long as he does.

Nice to see the Phils win the division early this year. And yes, it is over, despite some people's insistence that we would collapse.

Also, tough news on Myers, but it's not completely unexpected. When a guy rushes back from major surgery, you can't be surprised when something else breaks down--he most likely simply wasn't in good enough physical shape to handle pitching every day.

Once again, we have two weeks left, and a whole boatload of questions to answer, almost all of them in the bullpen. I'm not sure I can ever remember a team going into the playoffs with not only no idea of the roles pitchers will possess in the bullpen, but no idea of who those pitchers actually will be. Romero, Eyre, Happ, Park, Condrey, Durbin, Moyer. Can anyone reasonably say yes or no to any of these guys being even on the postseason roster? It's amazing.

If the Phils are up 3-0 in the 9th, and they bring Lidge in, and he gives up 2 runs, does it really matter? His ERA may go up, but the Phils won the game. He doesn't have to pitch a "clean" inning. His job is to get the save.

Klaus is right, Lidge is better when he is getting swings and misses. Obviously if you assume the same result, a strikeout, then in that case it doesn't matter how the strikes happened, but when the result is not assumed, would you feel more confident in a Lidge who has just struck out two batters by getting them to swing at sliders in the dirt, or a Lidge who had caught two players looking at strikes? You should feel more confident in the former.

Swings and misses give you an indication of the kind of 'stuff' a pitcher has. In Lidge's case, swings and misses are especially important because they indicate that he is fooling batters with his slider that ends up not being a strike. He is most effective when he gets ahead in the count and gets batters to swing over his slider that ends up in the dirt.

Lidge has run in to trouble more this year in part because batters are making more contact than usual. Seeing-eye hits generally don't happen when a guy swings at a pitch way out of the strike-zone, but they do when a pitcher has to throw a strike (even if it is a good pitch). In other words, when Lidge is ahead 0-2 and throws a slider in the dirt, it is a practically no lose situation. But if he tries to get a called third strike there is a much higher likelihood that the batter will be able to hit it.

So imagine a runner is on second and there are two strikes on the batter. I would feel much better if Lidge had been able to effectively throw his non-strike slider because then you don't have to take the chance of a guy getting a 'lucky' hit to tie the game.

Old Phan: That was worded perfect and my whole opinion on Lidge. In his past 3 games he has let up 4 runs, but has recorded saves in each of those games.

As the genius Herm Edwards once said, "You play to win the game!"..

awh: Which do you believe happens more often: a swing and a miss or a called strike?

MVPTom and Phan, are you nuts? Yes, the closer's job is to save the game, but how can you say letting up runs is irrelevant if he gets the job done? Isn't your closer your absolute best arm in the bullpen? The guy that consistently records outs, comes in and hammers the nail in? How can it be good for anyone's confidence to have Bradford coming in to save a 1 run game when players, fans and coaches are all on the edge of their seat wondering if he can done, rather than assuming he's going to get it done?

"Yes, the closer's job is to save the game, but how can you say letting up runs is irrelevant if he gets the job done"

Because it is.

Yon: Answer these two questions. 1.) Has Madson proved to be any better? 2.) If we take Madson out of his setup role, then who is our new setup guy?

Let's also remember the context here. Obviously, no one wants to have a closer with a 7+ ERA. Obviously, no one wants a closer with a zillion blown saves. I think everyone agrees with that. In game to game situations, however, you have to look at it differently (like Ken Johnson's no hitter in 1964). So yes, if Lidge gives up a run or two, but the Phils win, I'm fine with that. It sure beats the alternative.

So if Madson comes in with a 3 run lead and gives up 2 runs, has he done his job?

He got it to the closer with a lead...

"SnWs - taken by themself(ves) - are, without context, overrated."

Swings+Misses is a peripheral stat--it's value is entirely contextual.

more later.

CY, a bit different because in your scenario he is not the "closer". Then, the closer will have no margin for error.

Anyway, there is a big difference between "getting it done" and pitching well. You would always rather see a pitcher strike out the side, but it aint always going to happen.

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