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Monday, September 28, 2009


"Absolutely not. Lidge is about the last guy I want coming out of the pen right and should not make the playoff roster. But my takeaway from tommy's opinion is that roles are important because of the cascading effect it has on the rest of the pen.

Posted by: krukker | Monday, September 28, 2009 at 04:36 PM "

DING, DING, DING. We have a winner. That is exactly what I am saying. THAT is why I do not want to replace Lidge with Madson because then you disrupt TWO spots. I would rather replace Lidge with a guy coming off injury because then the effect will be less.

If we score 20 runs, who cares who pitches the 9th? Let's light this Bazardo up!

JW: Taking from your "police yourselves" policy. I would expect there to be no more posting privledges to be revoked again until the regulars who consistantly curse( see previous game thread for reference), attack and bully people's opinions here stops. So until you make the rules apply to everyone, I expect that everyone will be able to post(that includes MacTonight).

Anyone got the weather situation in Philly? Game gonna get in fine?

Good to see JC is back. Hopefully he can pitch soon--after the clinch.

Any word on how much longer we have to read "Paul Bako does the catching?"

Jack - any rain should pass through by game time. I'm sitting in my office in center city and can see that it's raining to the southwest of the city right now. Hopefully they don't start the game only to go into a 2-hour rain delay after half an inning and cost us Cole's start

Looks like a little rain before the game, but otherwise clear until 11 or so. Should be fine to get the game in tonight.

A fast line of storms may delay the start, but they shouldn't keep them from getting it in.

I'm fine with seeing Bako behind the plate. The last thing you want is Chooch aggravating an injury.

Bako's actually been playing well lately. I'd rather have Chooch ready for October than rush him back too soon like Myers. As long as Bako is serviceable, we should keep running him out there

I'm actually slightly concerned about the Astro's lineup: Lee, Berkman, Tejada, Pence, and throw in the former Philly curse of Bourn and Coste. I think we'll definitely need to out-slug them.

After the rain comes through, it's supposed to be cold and windy, which may take some of the potential steam out of the two lineups.

SmokyJoe - you weren't kidding about the fast part. The storm just blew in and the clouds are reminiscent of the spaceships in Independence Day. It's pouring (and literally raining sideways right now) in Philly

mvptommyd: People get to post here at JW's pleasure. He doesn't have to give a reason to revoke someone's privileges and he doesn't need to be fair. It's his blog. If you don't like it, you can go somewhere else and comment.

mvptommyd: "I would rather replace Lidge with a guy coming off injury because then the effect will be less."

What if Brett Myers isn't healthy enough to do the job? Considering he's pitched just 5 times since coming back from injury to the tune of a 5.79 ERA and that he's not even healthy enough to return yet... how can you count on him?

That's a perfect plan, let's use the guy who just got off the DL as a closer right away.

Hopefully, Romero can return to form in time and contribute.

CJ - when you decide to violate your 'no feeding' rule, you really go all-in, eh? ;-)

Storm has already pretty much passed through downtown Wilmington, DE, with the sky already clearing up to the southwest. It rained hard for maybe half an hout at most.

There should be no Chooch or JC used this week. Maybe if they're up by 10 runs or something, bring him in to loosen up. Otherwise, save him.

mvp - People keep get a bit heated and disagree with you because you have some interesting and very opinionated views. Shouldn't be swearing directed towards you but take it in stride man.

I have gotten blasted on here before for being a "nattering nabobs of negativism" by others but so be it.

Roles in the pen are only important in so far as they can assist the pen in doing their job. If the pen can't do their job anyway, I see little reason to hold onto some notion of "roles". And if changing, shifting, or eliminating roles in the bullpen is the best way to help the job get done, then again, holding fast to some arbitrary notion of roles seems counterproductive. It's getting the job done that comes first, and roles second. To hold fast to the concept of roles as if it will, on its own, lead to success is backwards thinking.

CJ - mvptommyd: People get to post here at JW's pleasure. He doesn't have to give a reason to revoke someone's privileges and he doesn't need to be fair.

while i agree in principle, due to the blog's remarkable success, and the "local bar" sensibility that it has created, i do think that a duty has been created to refrain from arbitrary bannings. i say this in a general sense and with no reference to any specific action.

/says the guy whose posted a total of ten times but lurks daily

krukker: From the last thread, your summary of what my views have been is correct, although I no longer trust Lidge in even a setup role. I currently favor Madson for 2-inning saves, with mix and match in the 8th if there are a couple lefties coming up. With the days off in post-season, Manuel won't be able to run him into the ground.

Phan - It wouldn't hurt for Ruiz to play at least 2 games to see some live pitching. Ditto for Romero to have at least 2 appearances. Have to know he can pitch and not needlessly take up a roster spot in the postseason.

I think the only time you can safely use Lidge at this point is if the Phils are up by 5-6 runs or more and they want to rest the other arms in the pen. Otherwise, it just isn't worth the risk.

MG, agreed regarding JC, but like I said, perhaps in a low pressure situation, or after they clinch.

Clout: agree 100% regarding 2-inning saves, with mixing and matching based on lefty situations.

Wouldn't it be cool if Charlie was at the front of the curve in terms of uncustomary bullpen usage? Oh wait, that'll never happen, so I guess we can just assume a 2-inning save from Madson will never happen. But I would love to see him try...

Lidge shouldn't be used period at this point. I don't know why they are even keeping him on the roster at this point unless they really think he can contribute in the postseason over the likes of even Durbin. Don't see it myself and the numbers are hard to argue for Lidge this Sept.

fwiw, madson has said in the past that he does not like pitching more than an inning per outing.

Anyone know anything official about if/how long the game will be delayed? I have tickets and want to know when to leave the house. Thanks.

J.R. King - I doubt it will be delayed at all at this point. The storm is basically through the city and the sun is out towards the southwest. If it's delayed at all, I'd guess 15 minutes or so. That's just based on what I see the weather doing, certainly not an official word.

It would probably be easier to have a 2-inning closer if you took some time to make him acclimated to such usage.

Old Phan: I'm fine with keeping Ruiz out for the rest of the regular season. He absolutely needs to be healthy for the playoffs. Romero, though? We can't go into the playoffs counting on a guy who hasn't pitched in more than 2 months -- especially one who struggled with wildness for much of the time he did pitch. He needs to make at least 4 or 5 appearances between now and the end of the year, both so he can get sharp & so that we can get a sense of what he can give us in the playoffs. You can't just take it on blind faith that he'll be able to come back & immediately pitch well. If anything, the odds of such a scearnio are probably well below 50-50.

FWIW, with Lidge out and no established closer as is, I think Charlie should go ad hoc. If the situation dictates bringing Madson in for the 8th and leaving him in the 9th, so be it (if, for example, we're facing the Cards and they have Pujols-Holliday-Ludwick in the 8th, it would be stupid to not have Madson face them). Or, if it makes sense for Madson to wait till the 9th, use him then. Or, if a key lefty (like Ethier or Ankiel) is starting the 9th, use a lefty for that guy and then being Madson in. Point being, that since there is no established order right now anyway, Charlie needs to play the matchups to the best possible advantage.

Jack and krukker: I'm not sure there's a great desire to make it a true 2-inning closer. But I'd imagine Madson will be warmed up ready for the 8th on a regular basis as he was yesterday. He'll be called upon at the first sign of trouble. This year, he's been spotless, I believe, with inherited runners.

f4f: I wonder if Madson's opinion has changed considering his strong performance the last two seasons in multi-inning appearances.

CJ: I think my second comment clarifies what I think should happen, and it basically agrees exactly with what you said.

BAP, 4 or 5 appearances for Romero would mean he would have to pitch almost every game this week. I see your point, but that sounds like a lot of work. If they don't include him on the post season roster, who is going to take his place?

OP: Oh, right. I guess I forgot there were only 7 games left. Ok, 2 to 3 appearances and the Phillies will have to draw their conclusions from that.

Old Phan: I'm not sure I'd need 5 appearances to put Romero on the NLDS roster, but I'd sure like to see ideally 3 appearances, including 2 on consecutive days.

I'd like to see Romero tonight or tomorrow and then again on Friday and Saturday both if possible.

Lots of talk about Romero, but the situation with Eyre is pretty unclear too. Cholly had a perfect spot to use him yesterday and he used Escalona. That probably tells you all you need to know about Eyre's health status. Assuming both guys are healthy and effective, they're certainly among our 7/8 best relievers. But, with Happ a lock for the roster & Moyer a virtual lock, would we even have room for both these guys? Even with an 8 man pen, can you really carry 4 left-handers? I think 1 of the 2 is not going to make the cut.

bap: I was surprised it wasn't Eyre as well. We haven't heard anything specific so I wonder what's up.

might i toss in a go marlins?

nice, fat elvis got picked off.

Gosh, our bullpen couldn't be more of a mess. We literally don't know ANYTHING, one week before the playoffs start. That is frightening.

If Happ is going to be in the pen, possibly in a late-inning role, he better get some appearances in this weekend.

I'd say our starting rotation the rest of the year, goes like this....


Monday- Hamels
Tuesday- Happ
Wednesday- Lee
Thursday- Martinez


Friday- Blanton
Saturday- Moyer
Sunday- Kendrick

By Saturday at the latest, this thing will be wrapped up. Time to save miles on Hamels and Lee's arm and get them ready for Game 1 and Game 2 of the NLDS. Lee especially, should be rested AT ALL COSTS. Happ moves into the bullpen this weekend. Romero is used, to see if he can help. Myers? Who knows. Eyre? Who knows? Lidge? Should head home and never see the postseason. Park? Who knows? The 7 guys who make up the playoff pen? We don't know much yet.

The word around the league is now obviously that the Phils can be run on.

Vic moves a runner - awesome.


Get 'em on, get 'em over, get 'em in?

curt: I'm sure word around the league for a long time has been that Bako can be run on.

And Utley picks the run up -- doubly awesome.

hey, alright smallball! i'll take runs any way we can get 'em!

Annibal Sanchez -- who looked like Tom Seaver when he faced the Phillies -- has walked the first Braves' 3 hitters of the game, throwing only 2 strikes along the way.

Braves have 'em loaded with no outs. Sanchez is giving free passes like he's an ACORN worker.

sanchez does still have his no-no going though...

If the Braves do manage to catch the Rockies and win the WC, I don't envy St. Louis or L.A. having to play them. If they make it into the playoffs, it would mean they would have to be red hot going in. Plus, with 3 starters on their staff carrying ERAS under 3.00, and either Hudson or Lowe as the 4th, they would make for a tough playoff matchup for anyone.

Remember just a few weeks ago when Howard & Werth had the same OPS? Well, Howard is .50 points ahead now. Er . . . maybe more like .48 after his strikeout & Werth's walk.

bap - I've been afraid of the Braves ever since Hansen rounded out the rotation. Hard to believe a team with that kind of pitching isn't playoff bound.

mvptommyd: No worries. I've been posting under another name since the week I was banned. :)

cole looks good tonight, let's get some more runs!

Who cares about Hansen when we've got Bastardo???

If we can't score at least 5 runs off Yorman Bazardo, it's definitely time to be concerned about the Phillies' offense.

This is going bad fast. Come on Cole get out of this.

Cole has no command whatsoever tonight. I'd love to have a dollar for every time I said that this year.

All started with a bunt base hit. What a concept.

And two bloops. It's amazing what can happen when you put a ball in play instead of striking out.

That Raul Ibanez is underrated with his arm.

That's one of the damndest things I've ever seen. I can't believe I'm typing this, but "Nicely played, Bako!" :-o

There's this thing called a first-pitch strike. When you throw one, it really helps.

I don't get the continued Bako hatred. He's been a good backup lately.

Good work Cole.

Cole's command isn't great, but the ump's zone is tiny, and Cole hasn't given up a hard hit ball this inning. He also rarely pitches to Bako; they seem to be off somewhat.

BAP: You'd have a lot of money, but there's a difference between how many times you've said something, and how many times it's been true. You think all of our pitchers' command is way off every single game.

And absolutely awful pitcher for the opposition, our ace going, a team that just fired their manager and is just waiting for their fall tee times. The Phillies are almost unwatchable.

I know we haven't clinched anything yet, but why aren't either Vic or Ibanez getting some days off? Both their bats are dragging so bad, that they are costing us. I don't care if a right-hander is throwing, get BenFran in there.

If this ump's zone is so tiny, why are the Phil's hitters striking out so much and not walking?

And throw Werth and Utley in there with dragging bats.

SmokyJoe: And your reactionary comments are almost unreadable.

You guys need to calm down. Give the team some freaking time to get going. You're fans of the defending World Champions, who are getting ready to go to the playoffs yet again. Getting back to the playoffs after winning a title is tough enough as it is. What's the point of being a fan if all you're looking for is the negative? Have some damn confidence in these guys; by the comments I'd think we were the New York Mess.

Jack: JW wants representation from as many different viewpoints as possible. He keeps me on payroll to represent the whining faction of the fan base.

Brian G, I bet more posters on Beerleaguer back my viewpoint on this game than yours. Like to make a bet?

Brian G, what particular part of the team has impressed you so far this game? How do you like the hitter's approach? How has Cole's command been?

This isn't football buddy. You can't expect the team to be great every game. They've had two off days this entire month. Let them win these 3 more games whatever way they can, get some rest, and gear up for a playoff run.

Alrighty, I am just going to throw the ball back to the pitcher's mound now.

NEPP: Because he's hitting .226 & strikes out nearly 1/3 of the time?

Honestly, though, the blame doesn't rest w/ Bako. It rests w/ Rube, who could have done better, should have done better, & instead crapped out miserably.

People who don't let other posters bitch about legitimate complaints drive me crazy. I have never said that they won't make the playoffs, never said that they'll lose in the first round, never said they are a bad team. The drum I have been beating is their atrocious approach at the plate. It's been a month or so. They have no patience as a team (save Werth). Here's an ump with a small strike zone and a pitcher that should be in the minors who would fold under the least bit of pressure. When you're tired and your swing isn't there, the least you can do to help the team is work the pitcher and take some walks.

Phillies' September numbers:

Utley: .222/.319/.374
Vic: .227/.286/.330
Feliz: .227/.257/.340
Rollins: .261/.305/.437
Werth: .239/.352/.420

When Paul Bako has been one of the team's best hitters over a 4-week period, something is very definitely wrong.

Cole is pitching plenty good enough to win. Its on the offense right now.

Rube crapped out miserably by dealing for Lee and Francisco at the deadline.

Just miserable.

****NEPP: Because he's hitting .226 & strikes out nearly 1/3 of the time?****

Newsflash: He's a Backup Catcher!!!

Backup cathers aren't known for their offense usually.

SmokyJoe: I just think it's silly to flip out on the offense after 4 innings. Especially after a series in which they scored 6 runs/game in a pretty consistent fashion.

Exactly what is Bazadro doing that makes him look like Cy? Unbelievable

Buzzsaw Bazardo.

I see what you're saying, but it can also work the other way. They're tired so they just can't give that effort they need to play like the great team that they are. They've still shown flashes of a good approach - look at the first game against the Marlins when they knocked Johnson out after 5 innings. Compared to the other NL contenders, I like our chances, especially when you look at what the other offenses have done against the league's top pitchers compared to us. But of course it is frustrating when they give us these stinkers against no-names.

Brian G, have you been watching the games for the last 6 weeks. What Bizarro (Bizzardo) world do you live in that thinks they have been OK offensively? It's not about 4 innings, it's about 6 weeks. Pitcher's such as Manny Parra, and the guy we cut in ST after 3 innings.

Make that 5 innings BG and they scored 6 runs yesterday all in the 1st half of the game then forgot how to hit when it mattered.

62 pitches through 5 innings, 1 hit, 4 Ks. I guess everyone is OK with that?

kbr, same thing on Saturday.

I am really starting to believe we will not win the division. It seems they don't care. They always look dead out there. The braves keep on winning and the Phillies keep on losing.

Phils can hit Josh Johnson and Tim Hudson then turn around and make Manny Parra and this guy look like world beaters.

It really is quite frustrating.

Anyone else have an irrational dislike for Hunter Pence? I can't stand that guy.

Are you guys watching the same game? The Astros are working the count on Cole, waiting for him to come in the zone. Not everyone; when Cole gets ahead, he's been able to put them away. But the Astros, who have no motivation whatsoever and are as "tired" as the Phillies, actually look like they have a collective game plan at the plate, and they are actually sticking with it.

Sarge is a moron. Since Bazardo hasn't been seen by the Phils, they don't know what he's gonna throw, therefore they can't hit him. What about the other teams he's faced that rung up an 11+ ERA?
This lineup is absolutely disgraceful. One crappy single to lead off the game?????

This month has been a dismal slog through a bunch of teams going nowhere. These guys have learned that they can maintain a nice lead just by showing up. It will be interesting to see if they can turn it up in a week.

God dammit Hunter Pence.

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