Part of

« Game chat: Phils look to lick their wounds in 'Burgh | Main | Notes: Before Howard saved it, offense nearly blew it »

Wednesday, August 26, 2009


Since Myers was on the disabled list, I think he's still eligible to pitch in the post-season even if he comes back after Sept 1. Is that correct?

Can't we have a closer that doesn't blow the save?

(partial repost)

Until the Dodger game ends (and longer, if they lose) Phils have The Best Record In The National League.

Alright, I'll give up publicly advocating for Madson. You guys win, he doesn't seem comfortable in the role, although I do think if given time to get used to it (not in a playoff atmosphere like here), he could be a fine closer.

So if not Lidge, I guess Myers it is. But be careful what you wish for. The guy has been a headcase and an underachiever his whole career. He's coming off hip surgery. He might be our answer, but he's certainly not the ideal answer.

With the way the rules work for substituting for injured players, anyone in the organization on 8/31 is effectively eligible for the postseason. Players on the dl are all eligible.

The Pods are just spanking a whole collection of Brave pitchers.

Its also pretty easy to use the DL loophole to replace a guy on the playoff roster...say we want to put Mathieson on the playoff roster but we don't put him on the 25 man prior to Sept 1...all we need to do is DL one of our current pitchers with some sort of injury (say "sore elbow") and we can then add Scott to the 25 man playoff roster. Its a bit shady but teams do it all the time and no one calls them on it.

Padres tearing it up in Atlanta and the Marlins beat the AAA Mets again.

In Madsons defense, the umps zone seemed all over the place tonight for all pitchers... I thought he had Moss looking at strike 3 two pitches before the HR...

But hey there is always Chan Ho next time!

CHOP may fit in this role. When he is on and he has been on lately, his stuff is wicked. He does not alow many base runners and gets alot of K's. He's the dark horse in the bullpen with the most to prove.

You guys are whacked. Madson was throwing heat, hitting spots, didn't walk a batter (or even come close to walking one). He actually looked very good. He got snake-bit on one bad pitch. I would feel 100 times more comfortable with him closing a game than with Lidge right now.

HH: LA said that was good news for the mets.

Phils have said they wanted Myers to pitch multiple innings, which he has done tonite, and also back-to-back days. He won't be called up before tuesday.

NEPP: That's how K-Rod made the 2002 Anaheim Angels of Los Angeles postseason/World Series roster.

I think Madson gets a little too ramped up for closing compared to 8th inning, a few more times doing it I think he would be settled in.

Right when I saw him throw a 98mph fastball I was like oh man he's trying to blow em away haha, he only made one mistake though.

Goody, they have nowhere to put him before Tuesday (unless they phantom DL Lidge)

I'll pick C. They are THE SAME PLAYER. They have put up the EXACT same stats in their first 40 AB's with the Phils. I could care less what BF did, playing for the last place Indians. I could care less what RFD has done with Lehigh Valley. I am just talking about what both have done with the Philadelphia Phillies in 2009.

I'm pretty sure you can't just completely disregard past performance when arguing who you would rather have step to the plate. Mayberry, a free swinging, poor contact, never met his expectations, 29 year old prospect or Francisco an everyday AL player for the past 2 seasons with a .260 average in 800+ career at bats. Maybe he's simply slumping (after changing leagues which is always hard for hitters) or maybe Mayberry played above his head the first 40 ABs but there is absolutely no denying that Francisco is a better more viable option for the Phils right now.

There is no disputing that through 40 abs they have produced the same. But that is a trivial argument and the conclusions you are drawing based on it are completely flawed.

There was no indication that Mayberry would ever be better than what his stats were showing while there is strong evidence that Francisco, once he adjusts to a new set of pitchers, will produce better than he is at the moment.

Amazingly, with our rookie pitching, I feel much better about the pitching matchup tomorrow than the last two games. They also has something to do wiith who has/is pitching for the Pirates.

40 ABs is clearly a legitimate sample size upon which to judge to respective players.

"40 ABs is clearly a legitimate sample size upon which to judge to respective players."

It is, when you are talking about bench players, who don't get many consistant AB's. Both were in/are in similar roles here and both have put up earily similar numbers.

The stats are what they are. Its obvious some here don't want to pay attention to them.

I like the Francisco acquisition. He is a nice bench piece. He just hasn't done much yet and hasn't been an upgrade YET, over the guy he replaced. Them's the facts.

Myers pitched two scoreless innings, struck out five and walked a batter. Earned a "hold."

I don't disagree that Francisco hasn't done anything yet. My point is that he has proven that he is better than he is playing, while Mayberry showed he was not capable of playing any better than he did. Because of that, Francisco is a way better option. You can't just ignore past results. At any moment, Francisco could begin playing at his career levels (or better), whereas nothing in Mayberry's past suggested he would produce at the major league level.

I'm sure there have stretches of the season where a crappy second baseman has been hot and Utley has been cold. Doesn't mean they are the same player during that stretch. Same with Rollins for the first half.

Judging someone after 40 AB in a new league without regular playing time is completely unfair to that player. Mayberry never proved he could hit major league pitching. Francisco has shown that he can.

Enjoy the regular season while you can. The way this team plays, it will not be going far in the post-season. No closer + consistently poor timely/situational hitting = games lost late to teams that have both.

If I didn't actually watch the games and know the Phils record, just by reading BL I would guess they were in 3rd, maybe 4th place about 9 games back.

I don't see any reason why Madson can't close, at least for now.

You can't see any reason why Madson can't close? Better get your eyes checked for glaucoma, Old Phan.

RSB: not to pull a clout here, but weren't you the guy who declared after game 1 of the NLDS last year (a win) that the Phils were still "postseason pretenders"?

The team looks horrible at times. That's just the way it is and has been for 3 years. While the closer situation is an issue (obviously), the hitting is what it is- and what it is is the best offense in the NL. The situational hitting in Games 1-3 of the WS was pretty piss-poor, but I remember that turning out okay. They go through streaks like this sometimes.

The bullpen isn't the same magic bullet that it was last year, but I'm not ready to just "enjoy the regular season" while I can and prepare for imminent postseason failure.

"I don't see any reason why Madson can't close, at least for now."

He's only about 50% in trying to close games this year.

He's gotten his shots and hasn't gotten it done. He's great in the 8th inning but not great in the 9th.

The guy with the best stuff in the pen, deserves a legit chance to close. And that is Chopper.

One last thing about Francisco, I think if he got regular AB's, he'd be fine. He'd be a nice 6th or 7th place hitter, who would hit 20 HR's and strikeout 150 times. I also think the same thing about Mayberry.

I actually think if Dobbs was a regular player, he'd trump them both.

Chuckles makes it tough on his bench guys. RFD barely got an AB, the last few weeks he was up. Cairo has been up twice and has barely gotten a sniff and hardly ever played in the field. Francisco seems to be struggling just like all the other guys have this year, trying to find some rhythm.

I wouldn't be at all surprised, if Francisco got some big hits down the stretch and played a important role in October (with Stairs looking like he is about 60 years old). I just wish he'd show something soon. Some of his AB's with RISP have been dreadful.

@RSB not to defend them, but didnt the phillies set a record for most men left on base in scoring posistion during the WS and still win last year?

Did they not get two huge doubles and a triple in the ninth to put them ahead last nite before lidge blew it? or get the big HR tonite?

i mean sure, second and third and no out during the top of the ninth, leaving empty handed hurt us, but i wouldnt put our situational hitting up there with a problems in the back end of the bullpen just yet

Iceman: was I? I wouldn't deny that. I still can't figure out how they ran the table considering how lousy they played in some of those games. But is that really going to happen again? Do the Dodgers, Rockies, and Cardinals have these kinds of glaring weaknesses at the back ends of games?

Well, speaking of clout, no doubt he would not approve of my emotional unsubstantiated gut feeling, but my gut tells me this team is out quick this time around and if it happens I will not be mirthful in the fulfillment of this prediction but I will have seen it coming from miles and miles away.

Random crap: Why was Howard hugging the bag on that bloop by Werth in the 9th? He and Sam P were the only people in the whole park who didn't know it was a hit a split second after it left teh bat. Better baserunning and that game doesn't go an extra frame.

Why didn't Manuel use Park in the 9th? he was warm and ready. Does this mean that Madson is the second string closer? FWIW, Madson looked good but, he gave Moss exactly what he wanted. A changeup there is a K.

Is someone really wishing we swapped Mayberry for Francisco? Franciso's no great shakes but, Mayberry's a AAA lifer from all outward appearances.

Godd@$mit!! Release Lidge. Eat the friggin’ salary!!!! He's the worst mental case in MLB since Jimmy Piersall.

No offense intended to Mr. Lidge’s mental state in any day-to-day capacity; I’m not implying that his ability to cope with life is in any way defective. However, he is USELESS on the pitching mound.

Just one more thing... anyone out there think that a 6' 5" 99 mph flame-thrower with an absolutely FILTHY changeup is not the next Mariano Rivera? The line forms here for all you genius’ arguments’ disputing Madson’s incredible stuff – and his ascendency to the role of #1 closer on this team.

@monkey man, my glaucoma notwithstanding, I tend to agree, although I'm not sure I would compare him (or anyone) to Rivera.

@RSB, Why you have this gut feeling about the Phils chances. Are they winning too much? Not enough? "Winning Ugly"...Just curious.

On the positive side, Cole did have a good line against admittedly inferior talent, and did extend the rotation's string of good performances - they're nearing 'rock solid' status.

I'm as concerned about the back-end as the next man, but sometimes it seems like we're too close to the team. Take the view of the playoff contenders in the NL - does anyone want to meet the Phils in the postseason? They're still a terrifying team.

As long as Lidge isn't pitching.

yeah, this team is rolling notwithstanding the trouble in the 9th inning. I went to PNC tonight. It was hard finding a Pirate fan. I would say it looked like CBP but, it was still half empty. Sadly, the majority of the conspicuous Pirates fans were wearing jerseys of players who are ex-Pirates.

Agree with RSB. If the Phils have any success in the postseason it will be despite the lack of a closer and problematic situational hitting.
But what do I know?? I also thought Lee was a better and more viable option than Halladay.
We'll see ...

Is monkey_man under the impression that Lidge pitched the ninth and not Madson?

Anyway, I do think Madson looked pretty good. I would rather go with Park, but even with a random home run Madson was clearly better than Lidge has been.

A crack in the armour, Cholly says Madson CAN close!

A tip of the hat to the Pads for wearing out the braves BP before they get here: 4 pitchers-3.2 IP-11 H-7 ER-103 pitches.

The Brewers throwing in the towel, 6 guys on waivers.

Hugh: They should have a money-back policy if they trade a guy within 90 days of buying his jersey.

My favorite baseball team has now won 34 of its last 48 games (a staggering .708 clip). It has 5 regulars with an OPS+ over 120. All 5 were all-stars.

My favorite team has the third best run differential in baseball, is 22 games over .500, and is leading its division by 7 games.

My favorite team has an ace of the staff whose ERA since joining the team is 0.68. It has a rookie pitcher who has surprised everyone by going 10-2 with a 2.59 ERA. Another pitcher on my favorite team has a 2.57 ERA in his last 16 starts, including 9 straight quality starts.

My favorite team has 3 of Baseball America's top 25 prospects.

My favorite team is the defending World Series Champion.

If you can't be happy with the Phillies right now, why are you a baseball fan?

I'd like to see CHoP be given a chance to be a closer.

goody: It's pretty sad when you see little kids wearing Jack Wilson , Freddy Sanchez, Jason Bay, Adam Laroche, Sean Casey, etc. Some older ladies still wear Jason Kendall jerseys. I think the nearly two decades of losing has lost the team a generation of fans. I say this having grown up hating the Pirates. There's nothing left to hate but their ownership.

Who is "Chopper"?

Park does not have the best stuff among our relievers. Madson does, and it's not particulrly close. Still, closing is not just about stuff and I would have to agree with the assessment that Madson hasn't proven up to the task this year. I share Jack's belief that he would eventually warm up to the role, but the Phillies don't have the luxury of warming him up to it.

Fact is, all this talk about the closer's role is premature. As insane as it seems, Cholly has said that Lidge is still our closer. Lidge will have to blow a few more saves before the issue really becomes ripe. But, does anyone seriously doubt that he will blow a few more saves before season's end?

Chopper is Chan Ho Park

Old Phan: my gut feeling is based really on evidence: evidence that despite the winning, this is not a favorable recipe for winning baseball and it's going to damn well burn them in the end. And yes, I am enjoying the Phillies. This kind of team obviously is once-a-generation if that. And if they get knocked out early in October I won't care much. They have players any fan would love to watch on an everyday basis, sell out every home game, are one of the elite franchises in the game. And they have a championship under their belt. You can ask if I'm a real fan the way they do on those Comcast commercials, but I'm content with 95 wins and a fun summer. No, you wouldn't want the players to feel this way. But me, I'm through agonizing.

Chopper = Chan Ho Park. I haven't seen it, but apparently it was learned in "The Pen" that that is his nickname.

"It had the makings of that [another difficult loss]," Howard said. "But we were able to bounce back and ... I was able to come through and hit the home run. But you don't want it to become routine. You want to get it done in nine."

Is it me or is this him calling out the closers? And if so, isn't it about time someone did?

@ Francisco hasn't done anything yet:

Doesn't he have 2 game winning home runs? Maybe only one. Also he has good at bats and is an athlete. Stats are stats. I'd take a guy who went 0-4 but hit the ball square every time over a guy who went 2-4 with two bloops and never hit the ball hard. You say he is hitting .500 points higher. I say the 0-4 guy gives me a better chance moving forward. If Cliff Lee gave up 6 runs the first game people would have been claiming he wasn't an upgrade over what we had amirite?

Don't know if anyone mentioned this before, but Trevor Hoffman placed on waivers per MLBTR. I wouldn't mind seeing him in red pinstripes.

I don't know what kind of a year Hoffman's having, but I'd suspect that if he's been put on waivers, there's a reason.

Francisco has only one game-winning home run to my recollection. He hit a big one on a Friday or Saturday night against Florida, but the Phils still lost that game.

loqiel: Couldn't Howard have been talking about the hitting just as easily as the closers? 1 run doesn't do it in nine in many games.

loqiel, it was the offense that didn't score in the 9th w/ runners on 2nd & 3rd & nobody out. I think he might have been referring to that.

Hoffman is 1-1 with a 1.85 ERA, 27 saves in 29 opportunities, 31 Ks and 10 BBs with a WHIP of 1.00.

SmokyJoe: Thanks for bringing up the offense. As bad as the pen has been, and don't get me wrong, they have been bad, the inability to get a runner in from third with less than two outs is Little League. The signs aren't good for a repeat with these two issues, they've got to be fixed.

And I'm sure I'll get piled on for this, but Jimmy Rollins still bothers me. I know he hit two homeruns on two pitches last night, but if he's going to do that, he should be hitting sixth. He had a nice walk last night, but I would love to see a guy who knows the job of a leadoff hitter.

I know I should feel better because of our lead - we have a much better record than last year - but for some reason this team doesn't feel to me like they're as locked in. I hope they prove me wrong.

Manuel has said on several occassions that Feliz is one of the best bunters on the team. Knowing the hitting funk Feliz is in, the team's woes recently in getting the runner home from third, the failure of Francisco the hitter before, the importance of the run given the situation, I ask why didn't Feliz suicide squeeze? If ever there was a time, it would have been then. Why won't Charlie do it?

New Thread

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel