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Saturday, July 25, 2009


Dear Phillies management:

If you can get Doc for Happ, Drabek, and Brown, get it done.


Phlipper: Agreed. Do it and begin the hunt for back to back WFC.

I agree with JW that Brown hurts the most, but I'd do it. Would be much happier if the Phils could sub Taylor for Brown.

I would rather see two minor leaguers in that deal than take a guy off hte ML roster. Would love to have a ringside seat for the negotiation.

Get George Sherrill instead.

Its about the 9th inning, people.

I wouldn't do that deal. But, I do think trading Happ at his highest value is fine. That said, if we can get Lee for significantly less, I would rather we do that.

In any case, what do we do about the 9th inning?

It is very interesting to me that some of the posters, who's opinions I respect, are against including JA Happ in a deal involving Roy Halladay. That is totally bizarre to me. Its as if HE is the guy that you believe will be a star that you regret giving up in 3 years.

I can't see it. I can understand not wanting to include Dominic Brown or even Drabek... but Happ? Brown, Drabek and Happ is exactly the package that I wished the Phillies would offer for Halladay.

Before Basball America released it's prospect rankings at the start of the season, if someone had told you that the Phillies would be able to get Roy Halladay without giving up Carrasco, Marson, Taylor, D'Arnud, Knapp or Donald, you would have said they were on drugs.

"In any case, what do we do about the 9th inning?"

Its the question none of the MLB "experts" are asking.

Its all about Halliday. "Finding another starter". But look at the really good teams this year in both leagues.

Dodgers- All star selection Broxton
Cardinals- All star selection Franklin
Giants- Solid closer in Brian Wilson
Yankees- All star closer in Rivera
Red Sox- All star closer in Papelbon
Tigers- Rodney has been perfect as closer
Angels- All star closer in Fuentes

The Phils have, easily, the worst closing situation in 2009, of any of those teams. Lidge has been one of the worst/untrustworthy full-time closers in baseball this year.

And has been pointed out before, gutting your farm and taking on more money for Halliday does not do anything about that.

The bullpen in 2009 baseball is arguably the key and just as important as starting pitching to a teams success. Its a different game today then it was 20 or 30 years ago. The closer might be the most important position today in baseball. Because when you can't lock down games in the 9th inning, it not only effect that game but it effects future games (and wear-and-tear on your other pen-men) and it devastates teams to lose games late like that.

Why some people can't see that, and think that just by getting Halliday (and possibly losing your most effective starter in 2009 in the process) will all-of-the-sudden make the Phils unbeatable and WFS favorites again, is mind-boggling.

Halliday is a stud. And if Lidge was semi-effective, would be a great addition. But if you ask me what we need more; a 2nd ace or a better closer for the 9th? I say its the closer and its not even close.

But the FO has hitched its wagon to Lidge and has a long-term committment to him. So they will either fly or go down with him. I just hope the Gammons and Phillips and Rosenthal's of the World would pay a little closer attention to things.

I'm so annoyed at these people who say "I wouldn't do this deal." ROY HALLADAY IS A STUD AND ONE OF THE TOP 3 PITCHERS IN BASEBALL. Would you rather have Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Moyer and Lopez/Martinez or Hamels, Happ, Blanton, Moyer and Lopez/Martinez? It's a no brainer. This guy is a horse who has pitched 7, 8 or 9 innings pretty much all year (he pitched 3 innings when he got hurt and 6 innings in his first start back from the DL). In a playoff series of Halladay in Game 1 and Game 5 and Hamels in Game 2 and Game 6 (for the NLCS and World Series), that is as strong as the Red Sox or Yankees. If we get Doc, pack your bags to the AL for Game 1 of the World Series.

Happ is a nice guy and good pitcher, but he'll be a decent #3 starter in the big leagues. And with prospects, like Forrest Gump said, you never know what you're gonna get. So what if Drabek is a stud in 3-4 years? What if our team is broken up and we aren't as good then? Who knows if Werth, Victorino, Rollins, Howard, etc. will be here then. Get this deal done Ruben.

Brian Startare is Mr. Malaprop but I like him.

"I can't see it. I can understand not wanting to include Dominic Brown or even Drabek... but Happ?"

He's 7-1 with a sub 3 ERA, pitching his home games in CBP and was top 5 in the league in ERA entering last night.

He's also making the major league minimum and has been the team's best pitcher in 2009.

That's probably why. Not saying its right or wrong, but Happ's stats this year and what he has done in THE MAJORS, speak for themselves.

Denny B- Re: Lidge. Exactly. I don't see how we give away the farm without a plan to fix what we have currently: the worst closer in baseball this year. By quite a margin.

Whatever it is that is wrong with Lidge, is it safe to say it won't be fixed this year? I hope I am wrong, and he bounces back. But if he doesn't, it seems pretty unreasonable to expect to repeat if you need to go into the 9th up 3 runs.

Enough with this 9th inning/closer problem. Lidge isn't going anywhere. He just needs to keep working and fixing his mechanics. It's probably his knee that hurts and he's not admitting it. I'm sure Ruben will get someone like Qualls or Sherrill if it's possible. Our bullpen obviously isn't as good as it was last year and we've had some unfortunate injuries, but getting Halladay just makes sense. The guy wants to win and wants to come here. He would take pressure off the bullpen by going 7-9 innings every 5 days and having him in the postseason.

Jason Knapp will be our closer in 3-5 years.

I really like Brown. I would hate to see him go.

Trading Happ now is the ultimate sell-high. Imagine if we traded Kendrick when he was pitching like this. We'd be in a much better spot than we are now.

I agree with HOV on Happ. If they can sell this high on Happ, it would be great. Especially if they managed to pull back on Drabek being in a deal because Happ is in one.

"Its about the 9th inning, people. "

I think Halladay will pitch a lot of them...

denny b. - You're getting way too excited about J.A. Happ. Yes, he's a good pitcher, but not pull a trigger on a Halladay deal because of him?? That's just insane. He'll be a good pitcher and maybe for a long time in the big leagues, but he was never a high ceiling prospect and could turn out to be a Kendrick type once the league figures him out. Having Halladay-Hamels Game 1-2 combination makes us really strong to match up with the AL.

I understand the Lidge/bullpen concerns, I do, but we're not going to have everything perfect. Like I said before, adding a bullpen arm at the deadline is not a bad move. But getting Halladay just really sets a tone and shows that we mean business.

Bud Selig on Halladay on Sirius XM: "I was told by somebody with pretty good inside knowledge that they won’t get rid of him."

That means Halladay is SO traded.

I love how attached some guys get to prospects. It's as if they want the club to just sit on prospects until they are 30 years old and never trade any away. They have a draft every year don't they?

I can also see the other side, from management's point of view. If the Phillies believe that Drabek, Brown, Taylor and Happ are their "Can not miss" prospects, and are surefire, day 1 starting position players, #2 and #3 pitchers that is a very valuable asset.

It cost the Phillies 30million to replace Pat Burrell with a comparable player. It will cost the Phillies at least that much to replace Werth, Ibanzez, Myers and Blanton. Brown, Taylor, Drabek and Happ allow the Phillies to replace those players for next to nothing over a 3 year period. If they trade 3 of those players, its like trading as much as 90 million to the Jays, because of the Free agency money they will have to spend to replace those positions.

It's not my money. Trade 'em.

Agreed about Happ. I don't have much of a problem including him and his value is sky high. Drabek I fully expected to be included from the get go, as well as one of Taylor/Brown.

I would love to see them make the deal as either Drabek or Happ, but if it both, it is worth the gamble as well.

I would certainly offer one of our prospect below Drabek/Brown/Taylor for a bullpen arm. If Arizona wants Marson, Donald, Worley, Savery, Stutes, etc. for Qualls, I would easily part with 1 of them, and probably 2.

Agreed, Mark. This team has three glaring holes. Why are people against fixing one because they think another is more important? That's just stupid. This move is to make our team the best possible right now. We may have more holes to fill, but why not fix the ones we can?

Yo, new thread

HOV - Exactly. We're going to make the team better by adding Halladay. And Ruben knows we need a right-handed bat off the bench and a bullpen arm. I'd love to add someone like Josh Willingham because Bruntlett is just a waste at the plate. I'd give up 1-2 mid-level prospects for Qualls.

Hibachi - Couldn't agree more on Halladay pitching into the 9th inning. He just pitched 9 innings last night and had 10 K's. He has 20 walks in 141 innings pitched. That's just insane.


Great Job as usual.

"Brian Startare is Mr. Malaprop but I like him."

LOL! Quirky maybe,occasional mangled syntax!

Take care


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