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Thursday, July 23, 2009

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15-2 Incredible!

"As Admiral Ackbar would say...

It's a TRAAAAAP!!!!"


http://www.icanhasforce.com/2008/07/01/its-a-carp/>CJ Was Only Partly Correct

JW - no props to CHoP?

Weekend matchups

Fri. Piniero vs. Happ

Sat. Lohse vs. Lopez

Sun. Wellemeyer vs. Blanton

Park threw, what, 10 pitches or something? Nah. I've given Park plenty of props.

limo- yes, CHoP was effective again. but, phils had a 5 run lead and he only pitched 1.2 perfect innings. that's normal, or what should be expected as standard performance. (of course, with some in this BP, that would be above standard) CHoP should get space if he goes above and beyond and if he has an impact on the outcome of this game; there wasn't that much doubt about the outcome of this game by the time Park got in to clean up the mess. I'm just glad SOME reliever is hitting on most cylinders while the others are struggling; that said, there'll probably be a point when Park struggles and the others will have to pick up the slack...

To be exact, he threw 13 pitches and got 5 outs. The last 5.

TNA - I guess I've seen too many games where guys came in with a mess like that and didn't get the job done or dug a bigger hole before it was all over.

TNA: Sure, but if Carpenter gives up a bomb in the 8th then the lead is cut to 3 and then you might be seeing Lidge in the 9th. Park induced the DP on 1 pitch and then threw a fairly no nonsense 9th. Very solid. But JW *has* given him a lot of props lately.

Clout: Have you backed off your position that Werth should get the same criticism as Howard for not being able to hit same-handed pitching? This is before tonight's game, so keep in mind that Werth's numbers have gone up:

Howard: .563 vs. lefties
Werth: .794 vs. righties

Do you still consider these "similar struggles"? Please answer that question.

JW - how not worth living life would be if everyone had the exact same perspective.

Plus a lot of guys contributed tonight. I guess it gets to the point where you can't mention them all.

if Ricciardi is expecting a package "similar or better" than:

(1) All-Star outfielder Adam Jones, All-Star closer George Sherrill, top pitching prospect Chris Tillman and two others; or

(2) Cy Young winner Cliff Lee, All-Star outfielder Grady Sizemore, second baseman Brandon Phillips and Lee Stevens,

Mr. Ricciardi, Good luck and Good night.

Accidentally posted this at the end of last thread but, in all the discussion about whether Carpenter was as bad as his stat line, one point got missed: the ball to Ibanez was flat-out ripped. Yes, Ibanez should have caught it, but it's not like Carpenter made a good pitch and just got unlucky (as some have portrayed it). Actually, Carpenter made a bad pitch, and was probably lucky that Ibanez was in position to catch the ball in the first place.

I'm not here to pile on the guy. But if people want to claim he actually pitched well but was unlucky . . . well, that's not really true.

Repost from game thread:

According to the PGL show, there's only been one other 5-4-5 DP this year and it was also turned by your Philadelphia Phillies.

b_a_p - that was a well hit ball but, there were two better hit balls toward teh end of Buehrle's "perfect" game. Pat the BAt hit a screamer that was just foul, for one. A loud, long strike. Then there was that catch in the 9th . . . Funny game.

bap - got tickets to any of the upcoming games out there?

Another great game by the boys. Murder's row having a good showing. Ruiz seems to have his swing back. Great timing since I will be attending tomorrow night's game.

I am excited to see Happ pitch again. I have seen him take the mound 4 times between last year and this year. He is 4-0 in those games. Hopefuly my lucky streak with him will continue. IF he wins tomorrow in convincing fashion, I think we may have to think about trading him. BUT I will save that for tommorrow after he pitches.

Tommy: I'll be at the game too. Maybe we should meet up for a beer and talk Phils.


Just kidding.

Jack: LOL, actually I think if that happened we would get along fine. It is something about this site that turns people into monsters.

mvptommyd: This is nothing compared to most other blog sites out there. It's actually quite civil here.

MVP-If he wins tomorrow and pitches well, the chances of his trade go down not up. We need to build to our rotation not take away.

Kumbaya mother f*cker
someone needs to drop an f-bomb here

vegas: exactly, that's what I said. Everyone wants tot rade him now, if he pitches well. I am saying people should rethink it.

doubleH: Well that's a shame

I would love to see Halladay in red pinstripes. Next year more than this one even. If Happ has to go to get him, that's rough. But, if he puts up 6 or 7 zeroes again tomorrow night, that's good for us tomorrow, at least. If he goes in a Halladay deal (I know, Tommy, there is no Halladay deal), he should be the headliner. Flipside, If you want the blue chipper, you gotta forget about the major leaguer.

Alvin: Why? The Phils are winning, it is the summer and tommorrow is friday. what could be any better?

Hugh: Your right, Halladay is going nowhere. "Where is he going? Nooooowhere!" A Quote from one of my favorite movies of all time, boondock Saints.

'cause I gotta work for a livin, in this heat and, besides, I like a good fight. preferably with gunplay.

The downside I see to trading Happ is that many baseball people (I read this today in the Olney piece, too, I believe) think that removing a good functioning part (i.e. not Eric Bruntlett) of your current roster in any trade deal is usually counterproductive. It's not just the messing with team chemistry thing, but it's the "if it ain't broken, don't fix it".

Now, if Happ is what stands between us and Halladay, then he goes. Happ will never be a Roy Halladay, but he can be a pretty good starter and I don't think he's a KK redux at all.

doubleH: After tommorrow night I will tell you better who Happ is as a pitcher. Although, I suspect he will be fine. But as someone earlier posted, he isn't similiar to Andy Pettite.

hh- Exactly. If it's a deal breaker he has to go. But I'd try to like he'll to keep him even if it takes two more prospects to do so.

What pitches does Halladay throw? What kind of velocity does he get on his fastball? What is his out pitch? What percentage of his first pitches are strikes? Doesn't Happ need to keep the ball down and work both sides of the plate to be effective? How many guys pitch like that consistently year after year to the point of being being considered a star or at least a dependable pitcher who usually gives his team a chance to win?

mvptommyd: Someone was quoting an article where a scout compared him to Pettite. I've heard him compared to Glavine a little bit, but don't think I've seen enough of him to say he's like anyone yet.

limo: I actually don't. Not sure I'll be able to catch any of the games, although I haven't actually ruled it out yet.

Is it me, or is Chad Durbin one of the biggest douches of the season? I know he's been pretty much garbage lately, and now it surfaces that he's been hurt. Why does it always seem like pitchers (especially relievers) hide injuries? Instead of trying to be a hero, do what's best for the team and take the necessary time off.

Despite the nice win tonight, we have a little rant at the site about that. Check it out.

4Days - Durbin was probably worried about the possibility he'd be put on the DL and never be brought back - which may happen anyway.

What the hell is a Murder's Row?

Stark:

Over the past 32 years, exactly three pitchers who changed teams in midseason have won a World Series game: Joe Blanton for the 2008 Phillies, Jeff Weaver for the 2006 Cardinals and Mike Torrez for the 1977 Yankees.

I'll be at the game tonight too. Sec 113. Looking forward to seeing Happ vs. one of the better offenses in the NL. Also looking forward to a nice 6-2 win.

I am also going tonight. And tomorrow. If anyone wants to meet up, I'll be the guy wearing the Lidge jersey.

From the Inky:

"Former Phils GM Pat Gillick, now an adviser to Amaro and Montgomery, favors going for it. He stated that in an interview with Toronto radio station 590 The Fan on Tuesday.

Gillick, who scouted Halladay's last start, a complete-game win over Boston on Sunday, said the Phils were in a "position to maybe go back-to-back."

"You don't get many chances to go to the dance," Gillick said. "You have to evaluate the position of your club and what kind of club you have and where the players are [in their careers].

"If you have a chance to get there - I think you have a responsibility to the players and the fan base." Gillick said acquiring top talent in July sends a message to the players "that these guys want to win and will do everything they can to put us over the top."


I thinks the deal is done this weekend.

Happ's last start as a Phil tonight?

Give 'em Drabek, keep Happ. Right now I'm not convinced that Hamels will regain his form from last year. Happ and Blanton have been steady pieces of the rotation, and I'd be good with either or both in my playoff rotation.

Ioctastic: No, Happ will stay. The deal will be Drabek, Taylor, Donald and another pitcher, maybe Worley or Carpenter.

If Pat is making comments. This 99% a done deal.

I am completely fine with keeping him and trading Drabek and the rest, I just liked to note that it may be his last start.

The more this deal percolates, the more I come back to where I was the day Riccardi opened up the bidding - Halladay will get traded. Toronto will not turn back or pull back. The only thing that will stop a deal is if Toronto misplays its hand and gets stuck calling a bluff that's not a bluff.

Deal gets done, Pat rips off the Phillies jersey to show a Blue Jays shirt underneath, laughs manically (think WWE doublecross). His evil plan of moving to another team, building the farm system and then trading all the prospects back to the Blue Jays has finally worked!

Tony D -- that is an interesting quote. I wonder if Gillick was the GM if he would have already packaged part of the Phils farm system to get Halladay. If I remember correctly he pulled some good strings to help the Jays win two in a row, but when he left, their system was certainly lacking depth. He never seemed shy about using prospects to get a proven major league player. One of those players he got for Toronto was David Cone, giving up a future HOF in Jeff Kent. Cone might not have won a game in the world series (as EF pointed out earlier that list is quite short) but he certainly helped get them there.

Heard Gammons on the radio this morning. He feels that while the Phils may be reluctant to trade Happ, Drabek and Brown (his list), he feels that mgmt should reward this team for not only the success, but for the way they play.
Says Phils play with a lot of soul.

no, he didn't mention the Sawx once.

I read in the same article with Gillick that the Blue Jays are asking for Happ and Drabek for starters, they also want Dom Brown. Wow, they are going to make the Phils clean off the whole top shelf. I hope they can try and talk them into taking Carrasco or even Savery and keeping either Happ or Drabek.

Halladay trade speculaion : Day 16.

mvp-

Somehow seems a lot longer...

JV: Yea I know, it feels like this has been the whole season.

As I said Yesterday, I honestly can not wait until August 1st just so this pain and torture is over. Everyday feels like Groundhog Day.

mvptommyd, go somewhere else then, you f*cking miserable prick.

tim: happ is not your top shelf.

And I highly doubt the bjs think so either, which is why i think that if Happ doesnt get traded, its because he doesnt hold enough value to move lesser prospects in the package for Hallday.

Tony: Your funny guy. I am not miserable. It is just funny that people have been discussing the same thing for literally 16 days straight.

The really funny thing is when Halladay isn't tradedand then people will spend the next 16 days complaining about Rube not doing the deal. When in reality as I have said 2 weeks ago. Ricciardi at first wanted to trade him, but now that he is thinking about it isn't so sure.

The Phils #1 problem is the 9th inning.

Trading for Halliday and giving up a bunch of prospects does NOTHING about that. Halliday will up the payroll. The trade will get rid of Drabek and others. And there is ZERO guarantee that he gets the Phils any farther then they would have gotten before (plus, how many big games has Halliday pitched in, in his life??? That is a WHOLE different ballgame, then what he has been used to, pitching in obscurity in front of half-empty home stadiums).

Its too bad Gammons, Phillips and the gang aren't smart enough about the team to know that.

Halliday is a great pitcher. No doubt. But so was Sabathia. And how'd that go in the playoffs? How many games has Santana won for the Mets in the playoffs? Why aren't more top of the line starters traded in the middle of the year and making a difference in playoff games for their new teams over the many years?

Everybody will be lauding the Phils in getting Halliday and parade preparations will begin with most "experts" and some fans here. But the true problem with this team will still be there. Whether Halliday or Pedro or Andrew Carpenter is starting games.

Any Toronto scouts at the Bank tonight?

Didn't get to watch the game, but I love being out and checking the score updates and seeing them tack on runs.

Lou, I agree with you. I think the deal gets done. Drabek, Taylor/Brown, Donald and another pitching prospect. I think Happ stays. I'm curious if the Jays want Taylor or Brown, and which one the Phils would be more willing to part with. Also, if Happ does stay, the Phils would have the following options for a five-man rotation: Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, Moyer, Lopez and Pedro. Who is the number five?

By the way, if that is the four-man rotation we take into the playoffs, I like it. I like it a LOT. Blanton has really impressed me since May.

"Kumbaya mother f*cker" - Was that a line that Willis said in one of the various Die Hards?

tommyd, the entire baseball world has linked our team with him for the last month. This potential move.non move will impact the entire way the team is ran for at least the next 3 years. We can completely ignore it and talk about a right handed bat off the bench but this is a little more important whether you think so or not.

denny-
I heard the Phils were looking @ Sherrill. If you bring him in now what does that do to Lidge?
The bullpen has been mostly getting results, although not without some headaches, but if you take away the closer role from Lidge and give it to a new guy at this point in the season I'm not sure if this will screw up the chemistry out there.
Does the closer by committee thing work for championship teams?

MG: I believe he said "Kumbaya, Mother Folker" to a hippie terrorist in Die Hard 6.

dennyb: I can see both sides of the argument, but your argument that Roy Halladay does not improve the Phillies is impossible to find any logic in.

The 9th inning isn't a problem when Hallday is pitching complete games or holding the opposition to such a low run total that the 9th isnt even a save situation.

If Andrew Carpenter is pitching, the 9th inning problem will be on our offense instead of our bullpen.

There are more than 1 side to this argument, but you've found an angle that isn't even considered a side.

lidge blown saves since returning from DL: 0

denny, you are putting the fact that the Mets haven't made the playoffs entirely on Santana?

Instead, think where the Mets would be the last 2 years WITHOUT Santana? Did the Brewers even have a chance last year without Sabathia? The guy pitched his balls off to get that team into the playoffs.

And what has Matt Laporta done in the ML yet? How are those guys the Mets traded for Santana doing?

Amaro says any reports that Drabek is untouchable is pure speculation. Click on my name for the link.

"There are some people we would not trade and there are some people we would, and it's all subject to change," Amaro said.

Does this change anything? I'm thinking yes.

Denny, it helps the 9th inning and the rest of the pen when he pitches a complete game.

Tony D: Actually the entire move/none move will effect the way the team is ran for the next 1.5 years until he is a free agent. I am for the trade as I have stated. I just think this whole think ricciardi pulled was for attention and in the end it will be a waste of our time.

I am also not saying "don't talk about". It just seems like it will never end.

all valid points Tony D...

Man the Padres suck but then again the Phils get to beat the paste out of the Nats for 19 games this year.

One thing I wouldn't mind seeing with the current schedule is a little less divisional play and more of a chance to see other NL teams. Even playing the Mets 18-19 times a year is overkill.

I move that the next poster to compare a potential Halladay move to the moves for Sabathia or Santana gets banned from Beerleaguer. Neither the Brewers nor the Mets were reigning champions. I doubt either the Mets or Brewers regret their new pitchers. Please, just stop the silly comparisons. We have a sizeable lead on our division, we're a playoff-calibre team, and we can add the best pitcher in baseball.

Also, I need to give BL thanks. Someone on here mentioned an APP called TOR. I downloaded it and I now I can watch the phils at home on my cpu. I had previously been blocked out due to location, and I have DircTV. Life quality up 11%. Thanks!

thephaithful: Yea, Lidge is 6-0 in save opportunities since returning from the DL. Yet people on here are crying for them to give up 2 prospects needed toget Qualls in replace him. Once again, the genius opinions posted daily on BLer.

"I just think this whole think ricciardi pulled was for attention..."

I'm still stunned by the ridiculousness of that statement. Day #2.

Geez, it's called negotiation. Each team at this point has to have a list of the best deal they want, what's the worst deal they will take, etc. Barring a wild card (another bidder, three-team deal), we have a week while they negotiate and we read various outrageous stuff in the press while they figure out if they can make a deal. All this speculation about personal motives (names is the press, building legacies) is BS. The Phils have no incentive to do this before the trade deadline unless they think the BJs have blinked and will take a sucker deal.

In todays Toronto papers Halladay and JP are feuding a bit. This makes the odds of Doc staying zero. He is going somewhere...

denny b: Yes, the ninth inning is a problem, as is the Eric Bruntlett Fiasco as our RHB default setting. But saying a Halladay deal doesn't solve either problem is largely irrelevant, in my opinion. This isn't the only move the Phils will make, so it should be weighed on its own merits. And with all due respect, I don't understand the argument about Halladay never pitching in a big game being a significant factor against him. This guy has pretty much owned Yanks and the Sox; I don't think a 32-year-old CY winner is going to turn to jello in the playoffs. Yeah, there is the Sabbathia precedent, but the Brewers rode him like Seabiscuit for two months to get into the postseason -- something the Phillies probably won't have to worry about. He looked dead. Also, again in my humble opinion, Halladay is a better pitcher.

On your point, the ninth is a tricky issue. Lidge is our guy, and I don't think Charlie changes that. Yes, we may have Myers back in the BP. But I don't know how we solve this issue. I don't think the solution is not getting Halladay.

I agree with MVP on the qualls thing. Don't really think spending prospects on a bullpen arm is the way to go. We have plenty of arms out there. Just need to hope that they are pitching well come October. They are obviously capable.

After thinking a lot about the Halladay trade, I think we should go for it. If we didn't win the WFC last year, this would be a no-brainer. Which leads me to the conclusion that eventhough we won last year, the chance to play for championships are so rare that we have to go for it. Also, a shot at a dynasty is something I have never even fathomed

denny b - I'm with you that the biggest problem with this team right now is Lidge. He has been generally horrendous this year and it is evidently clear that this is knee is still bothering. Yeah, he says that he feels fine and I understand he can't come out complaining about it.

As long as Lidge is on the roster though, he will be the closer (right or wrong). The only way I don't see him being the closer is if Lidge is on the DL come playoff time.

The issue though is that Lidge was 7/7 in save opportunities last postseason but 5 of 7 came in 2-runs or less leads and 3 of them were in 1-run lead.

Anybody honestly feel that Lidge is capable of preserving a 1-run lead right now in a big spot? I don't.

Said this earlier in the week but the Phils have three clear needs to fill at the trading deadline:

1. Starting pitcher
2. Bullpen arm (right-handed)
3. Right-handed bat off the bench

I don't expect that Amaro is going to necessarily get a Halladay or even a Lee. Nor do I expect that he gets an impact bat off the bench but there is really no reason that he can't fill at least 2 of those needs in the next month.

That should be how Amaro is judged at on setting this team up for the postseason because Gillick's strength is that he generally found a way to fill the secondary needs of this team the past 2 years. He wasn't even that bad in '06 when he acquired Moyer but Conine was a flop and being a clear seller at the trading deadline for .50 on the dollar cost the Phils' a likely playoff appearance that year too.

mvptommyd: July 7, after he came off the DL, Lidge gave up a run and lost the game. It wasn't a blown Save, but he came in a tie game and lost the game. Don't pull the semantic trick of "but he hasn't blown a save!"

I think the injuries to the bullen make it essential they get Halladay. It would be a shot in the arm to have someone that can go 7 or 8 every time out. Anybody else but Lee is only going to give you 5 or 6 which will further fry the bullpen. Who is the patron saint of making trades without giving away the store?

MG: I have to disagree with your statement. Lidge has been bad in NON-CLOSING situations generally. Since he has returned from the DL, he has been fine.

So you think we need a bullpen arm over a RH bat? Interesting.

MPN: I just said, he isn't good in NON-SAVE situations. But in save situations he has got the job done.

His job is to save games, No?

How come the Red Sox and Yankees seem to be able to raid the Pirates for bench help in exchange for slightly used fungo bats But the Phillies can't find a RH bat anywhere? If anything it ought to be easier to get a RH bat than the lefties (Hinske & LaRoche) both Boston and NY picked up

mvp - Lidge's number since coming off the break:

11 G, 0-1, 6 SV, 9 IP, 7.00 ERA, 2.22 WHIP, 9 BB, 11 K, .290 BAA

Those numbers suck any way you slice it.

More importantly, Lidge has been scored on in 5 of his 11 games. It is not like he has only had 1 or 2 bad outings. He has been generally a below average pitcher since coming off the DL.

mvp - What also makes you think that Lidge will make it through the remainder of the season and not necessarily be put on the DL?

He already has had one trip to the DL and missed time for two stretches this year due to that right knee.

Maybe Qualls isn't the answer but your insistence that Lidge is "fine" from a health perspective and capable right now in the 9th inning is pretty thin at best.

MVP: His job is to save games and not lose games. So, it isn't an either/or.

mvp - Answer me this then you want a question, do you think that Lidge is a capable option right now in the 9th in a tight spot (1-run lead)?

I don't because he has been walking guys left and right (and hit 2 guys since coming back) and giving up a ton of base hits. Once a guy gets on, Lidge is also very easy to run on because of his poor pickoff move, high leg kick, and throwing his slider so much.

Closers make their bread-and-butter reputation really on being able to close the door in a close game especially in the postseason. Reason why Mo Rivera will be a 1-ballet HOF even with some notable blow ups he generally has been a rock in the 9th.

MG: I understand. BUT has he saved games or not? Simple question. His job is to save games. If he comes in with a 3 run lead and they end up winning by 1. He has still done his job. This is where numbers can be overused.

MG & MPN: We will have to see. I know Lidge hasn't blown a save since he returned from the DL. Also, I know Qualls was hurt just last month. So why do I want him?

Lidge will be fine. He may still be a little hurt, but trading 2 prospects for a replacement is a little premmature right?

Also, Phillies usually don't trade for relievers since they cost too much. So don't expect a bullpen arm from other teams. They will get someone off the waiver wire if needed for September.

In the quest for Halladay, my opinion has always been trade Drabek before you trade Happ. Here's what the experts are saying about that in Rumblings:

"If you're a team that's good enough to be in the race, you never want to deplete what you've got," the GM said. "If you're looking for a building block, you can't move one building block out and bring another one in. The idea is to add that block to the group, not take one out of the group."

"This guy has to be the most underrated pitcher in the National League. He's pitching his tail off. He's got the ability to hide the ball and create deception. And he pitches vertical. So even if you're looking fastball, the ball is on you fast. And you see some pretty weak hacks."

"I've really upped him on my reports. I used to have him as a No. 4 starter, kind of a poor man's Andy Pettitte. Now I think he's a No. 3. I think he's become Andy Pettitte -- and he's actually pitching better than the Andy Pettitte who's pitching for the Yankees."

Tommy: His job is to pitch well. To not give up runs when he is in the game. That is his job.

mvp - What guy will become available off the waiver wire in September? They might be able to make a deal for a back-end right-handed arm but don't they already have a couple of these guys including Durbin or Condrey?

As for answering my question - do you think Lidge is capable of coming into a 1- or 2-run game in the playoffs and preserving the lead?

I don't and he did that last year in 5 or his 7 save opportunities in the playoffs. That's the point.

Yeah people will rip me but I don't care. Saves are the single dumbest statistic in baseball. If you really want to know how a closer did, you need to really break it out in 1-run lead, 2-run lead, 3-run lead, etc.

Save "average" is generally around 65% for the league. This number has been very stable for the past several years with some exceptions.

It jumps to over 90% though when a closer comes in with a 3-run lead and get a save.

When you have a statistic with that kind of data dispersion to the right, it is largely meaningless as a useful statistic. It doesn't tell you sh!t because the differences between the observations are so small.

jack - Agree 100%. Not expecting Lidge to match his 2008 numbers or be as dominant in the postseason either.

He just isn't remotely close to the pitcher he was last year and he is a huge injury concern going down the stretch. It wouldn't hurt to have a backup plan in case Lidge's knee put him on the DL in the postseason.

Jack: Since Lidge returned from the DL, he pitched in 11 games.

- He has 6 saves in 6 Opp.
- He has let up runs in 5 games ( 2 runs in 2 games and 1 run in 3 games)
- Phillies are 8-3 in games he has appeared in
- In BOTH the games where he let up 2 runs, the Phillies were ALREADY LOSING by 3 runs in each game.
- In 2 of the 3 games he let up 1 run, the Phillies ended up winning by 1 run. He closed the game out WITH men on base.


Those are facts. This is where stats don't tell the WHOLE story.

phaithful: Right now i'd consider Happ top shelf. Is he pitching over his head, probably. I'm sure as teams see him more often they'll find chinks in the armor but I think the guy is a steady 4th possibly 3rd major league pitcher in the rotation so I think he is a valuable trade commodity now and down the road.

I took a page from clout's book and just posted a factiod (0 blown saves since returning from DL) without offering any explanation or opinion about it, so i can just wait until someone uses it inappropriately and then jump on them for being incorrect. Didnt take long for someone to bite.

tommy: the number being overused in this case is the "save". Having 0 blown saves doesn't exactly translate into getting the job done. As MG pointed out, he has already loss a tie game which he should be expected to pitch in during home games. Giving up multiple runners every single inning is a recipe for blown saves, so even though he has none since returning, the more he continues to pitch at his current rate, the more blown saves he will incur.

Jack: Since Lidge returned from the DL, he pitched in 11 games.

- He has 6 saves in 6 Opp.
- He has let up runs in 5 games ( 2 runs in 2 games and 1 run in 3 games)
- Phillies are 8-3 in games he has appeared in
- In BOTH the games where he let up 2 runs, the Phillies were ALREADY LOSING by 3 runs in each game.
- In 2 of the 3 games he let up 1 run, the Phillies ended up winning by 1 run. He closed the game out WITH men on base.


Those are facts. This is where stats don't tell the WHOLE story.

Is it just me, or are those are ... well ... stats?

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