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Wednesday, July 29, 2009




It's a home run any way you slice it. We kept our top 3 prospects and Happ and acquired the AL CY from last year. THE AL CY LAST YEAR with a 3.14 ERA. He's going to do just fine in the NL. Good play by Amaro.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Pedro is ready. Who's out??

Isn't Clifford also a big red dog?

Looks like a pretty good match to me.



I said that Rube would get it done...GREATEST TRADE EVER!!!!!!!!!

J - I expect a fabulous graphic that I can immediately post on Facebook. Get working!

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a steal this is!!

Excellent, excellent, excellent move by Rube.

Welcome to the WFC Cliff!!!

I love it. Love it, love it, love it. Welcome aboard, boys.

wow in all my 28 years, the last year and a half have definitely been good ones as a phils fan... whether if you agree or disagree with the move you must applaud the front office for the aggressiveness in getting this done and setting us up in contention this year and next! Good job Rube!

So... we actually have trading pieces left to get a bullpen arm, too, if necessary, right?

Will we hope that guys like Pedro and Myers can fill out our bullpen or do we go after Sherrill?

Maybe Ruben is still going after Halladay too? Happ/Dom Brown and two lower level prospects for Halladay????


I know it sounds insane

Unbelievable deal by Amaro. Sentimentally, I'm a little bummed to see Marson go, but it was the right move and we have a gluttony of catching prospects at the lower levels. Really excited about Lee and Francisco.

4 lefties in our rotation. I'm not complaining mind you---last year's best prospects get moved instead of this year's best prospects.

I'm feeling very spoiled by the phillies right now.

Heck of a deal. I am very happy. Now I just need to research this Ben Fransisco but we got last years AL Cy Young winner and we kept our top prospects. Win for the Phils. Way to go Rube.

Our team is so lefty-heavy, we make Dennis Kucinich look like Dick Cheney.

But good trade all the same.


Pedro will start in the back end of the bullpen...moyer is the number 5 starter. Lopez, long relief.

Wow! So I'll assume Halladay is off the table. Whose spot in the rotation does Lee take? I assume Lopez's, and they'll either DFA him or outright him to AAA.

Anyone ever see the SNL skit from about 10 years ago, where they parody the end of "It's a Wonderful Life" where everyone is singing? In the skit, the uncle remembers that Mr. Potter has the money that was lost, and the whole gang at the house show up and kick the living crap out of him. That's what I want to happen to JP (figuratively). That's the only way this could get better.

They kept Drabek, Happ, Brown, and Taylor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Ruben were in Philly, he'd be carried on our shoulders right now.

Mark this date down. 1st time is young Rube's GM career where the WHOLE BLer Community agreed with him.

How does everyone feel our chances of repeating are now with a Hamels/Lee/Blanton/Happ playoff rotation?

Now that I've sufficiently hazed J, I think this is a pretty decent trade for both teams. The guys we gave up are good players, but they're young and wouldn't have helped this core group anyway.

Riccardi left holding the bag. Best offer is off the table now, JP.

Great deal by Amaro. Lee is an excellent pitcher with a very reasonable contract. Screw Halladay, when was the last time he won a Cy Young anyway?

Plus they got their right-handed bat AND they still have 48 hours to get some bullpen help. If Rube pulls off a deal for Sherrill, Qualls or Bell, I will literally go out to CBP and bow in the direction of Rube's office.

ozark - there are still a couple days until the deadline. there is probably another deal in the works...
like Drabek, Happ and Brown for Halladay.
Of course that'd be wishful thinking, but a rotation of 3 *AL* Cy Youngs, 1 WS MVP and Blanton would be sick.

A year can make a huge difference in perspective. If this trade had been made a year ago, when Carrasco was dealing, Donald was hitting up a storm, and Marson looked like our catcher of the future, I think there would have been a large Beerleaguer contingent which said we severely overpaid (I might well have been among them). So, some reverse perspective is in order too. Donald & Carrasco didn't lose their potential overnight; they are both considerably better than they look this year.

I still think this is a great trade for the Phillies, but it's probably not the heist that it's being portrayed as. There's no Kyle Drabek or Dominic Brown in this group, but there are 4 players who all have a decent chance of being major league starters. Cleveland is bound to hit on one or two of them.

That's a fantastic coup for Amaro if true. To do it without losing Taylor, Brown & Drabek is tremendous.

From last thread, Truth asked if Lee could become a free agent before 2011. The answer is yes, under certain conditions. A player with five years or more major-league service who is traded in the middle of a multi-year contract can, during the offseason, require his new team to either trade him. If the team fails to do so, he becomes a free agent.

This same rule applied to Halladay.

Rube is a better GM than Gillick (who was willing to sell the farm for Halladay).

Awesome awesome trade!

Rube played this one perfectly.

Yeh, they're going to keep Lopez around and DFA Durbin. Durbin may or may not clear.

I hate to admit it, but, Ruben has gone and completely redeemed himself for his indiscretions that causes me pain all week!

This does sound like a great deal. Carrasco could probably use a change of scenery, Knapp is a long time from helping a big league club, and Donald and Marson had obviously fallen out of favor a bit with the Phils' brass, or they'd have already replaced Bruntlett and Bako.

Plus, they manage to keep Happ, Drabek, Taylor, and Brown, and get the second-best pitcher on the market.

If its true, bravo!

bap: You are nothing, if not consistent.

Nothing better then sticking it to JP! Good luck finding a job buddy!!

I wonder if they stick Carrasco in their rotation immediately?

Can't the deal be great for both teams? We get to win now, they get to win later.

Heck yeah! Way to go, Rube!

CJ: We still have ammo left to trade for a closer? That part I don't see. You would never trade Taylor, Drabek or Brown for a closer. You would trade a couple of second-tier prospects, and we pretty much just traded them all away. A package of Tyson Brummett and Anthony Hewitt won't get us Sherrill.

Scott Lauber also reporting it's a done deal.

Wow this is great, we are all smiling and having a good time.

I know it's not going to happen but technically we could say yes to Toronto's orignal offer and get Halladay also, becuase we didn't give up any of the prospects they wanted to get Lee.

Like I said, not going to happen, just interesting.

Wow. I really wanted Halladay over Lee. But for what the Phils did (didn't) give up this is great. Plus we don't have to talk about Donald and Marson anymore.


So I guess this is what they call the law of averages. Let's forget the first 100 years of Phillies baseball, a new era is upon us!

Anyone know much about Ben Francisco? I assume he becomes the RH bench bat?

Next year's rotation


Now what, do we go back to bitching about the utility infielder / pinch runner? Heh.

CBP is now truly south (paw) side.

Wholesale approval for this deal. They didn't need Halliday so badly that they needed to give up their primary pitching and positional prospects to get him. This trade makes perfect sense for the Phillies, even though Lee/Francisco didn't come cheaply. This was the right move to make. The only question is, what happens to Pedro Martinez?

P-Red: Not sure what you're talking about. Did I not say it was a "great deal?" So now it's being negative to say that these guys are pretty good prospects?

You gotta think Happ is breathing a huge sigh of relief...

WFAN reports that the Phillies have traded Lou Manson.

Anyway, here's hoping that JP keeps Halladay and doesn't panic like a chump.

How did they manage to keep Happ, Drabek, and especially Taylor and Brown? This is insane! And they get a nice spare outfielder through '13. And the centerpiece of the package is currently hurt!

I think Cleveland threw in Francisco to make room for Matt LaPorta who is raking in AAA..They are in total rebuild mode.. Rube nailed them at the right time KUDOS Mr. Amaro!

We still gave up top talent 3 of the players we gave up will be on their 25 man roster next year in all likelihood.

Its a win-win for both teams.

timr - I agree, no one seemed in a rush at all to get any of those three up to the big leagues. They might hit big in Cleveland, but it probably wasn't going to work for them here.

Francisco looks like a solid little player.

Wow, huge move for Rube. He looks like a Genius.

Seems unlikely we'll get Halladay though. Be tough to add Cliff's ~$8ish mm and almost $15mm for Roy.

Still, huge move.

...someone said we have a depth of catching in the lower levels. Who are they?

The best part of this is next year's rotation. We can now have BOTH happ and drabek in the rotation ALONG WITH Lee. If we would have gotten Halliday, it would have been either Drabek OR Happy along with Halliday. Even if Lee is slightly below Halliday, not giving up Happ or Drabek improve the staff as a whole.

Anyone know - is Lee a fly ball or ground ball pitcher?

season=over ... for everyone else.

This is the first major event I can ever remember where every single poster is in agreement. We haven't heard from denny b, yet, however, who will probably tell us Marson and Donald will be All-Stars within 3 years.

FYI- Francisco is under control until 2013. And he used to be a stud prospect OF that was a *bit* overshadowed by a certain Sizemore.

If we back off of Roy how about Washburn too? This could go down as one of the greatest days in Phills trade deadline history!

Well Knapp isn't really hurt. Its more of a Shut him down to protect him from too many innings deal.

Headline for ya Jason:

Rube is no rube!

meh, maybe not that great.

Dukes- Lee was formerly a heavy FB pitcher, who over the last couple of years has significantly increased his GB rates, which has helped him out.

That is my only worry about Lee- if his FB rates start to come back up, that could spell trouble in CBP.

Rube should offer Ricciardi Taylor, Savery, and May for Halladay as a favor so JP doesn't have to trade Doc to the Sox

UnBELIEVABLE deal by Rube.

How he kept Happ, Drabek, Brown and Taylor out of this is nothing short of amazing. The Indians scout must REALLY like Knapp and Carrasco, huh?!?

What happens to me now?

Do I go to the BP, or do I get traded?

smokyjoe: the appropriate SNL skit to reference here is... "When the Phils traded for Cliff Lee...Cum in my pants"

bap: "There's no Kyle Drabek or Dominic Brown in this group, but there are 4 players who all have a decent chance of being major league starters. Cleveland is bound to hit on one or two of them."

It's not a good deal only if these four are destined to fail. I think all four have value. Knapp obviously has huge potential. Carrasco, the forgotten man, could get his stuff together and really be an impact starter. But compared to sending Happ and Drabek and Brown to Toronto, this deal looks like a steal.

clout: I think most people were pretty excited to win the World Series last year.

I think we gave up good players for Lee, so don't be overjoyed. I would've liked to keep Marson since he plays a premium position and has a power bat, but for a Cy Young winner from the year before scarifices will have to be made. Many of the other prospects are good, but Knapp is 4 years away from pitching in the majors, Donald is 2 years away from starting for the Phillies at any of the infield positions, Carrasco hasn't lived up to his potential yet

clout: How much does it concern you that there is a BL consensus?

That is INCREDIBLE!!!! WTG Rube!!

Great trade!
I was surprised that Francisco has such good speed along with the pop.

We did what a good team is supposed to do..We gave up top talent (4 of our Top 10) without giving up our best talent.

I like this deal.

Rolo: Who cares?

J.R.: "compared to sending Happ and Drabek and Brown to Toronto, this deal looks like a steal."

Yeah, agreed. It's not a steal in the sense that we got over on Cleveland. But it's a steal in the sense that we got the marquee starter we needed without having to give up any of our marquee prospects or Happ.

I am very happy.

I looked at Lee's game by game log this year and he's been a solid performer every game. With the Phillies' bats behind him, he should win every game he starts.

We all knew that Donald, Marson and Carrasco were never going to be main cogs on the Phils in the future.

What's next year's rotation? Lee, Hamels, Happ, Drabek and Rolo?

"I would've liked to keep Marson since he plays a premium position and has a power bat"

How exactly does Marson have a power bat? He has exactly 1 HR this year.

I guess with Francisco in the fold, Mayberry is going to be heading back to the Pigs?

Meanwhile, what must Ricciardi be thinking right now?

Jon Heyman tweets:

lee's record vs. NL teams is 12-2. this may work out better for #phillies than halladay.

But it went a really really long way.;)

I love this, and I love that Lee isn't going to face Hallday pressure when he arrives. Welcome to Philadelphia, Cliff!

Zo now has the story on

Can't get much more official than that.

I hope with Francisco in the fold that we see the end of the GNOME!

Now, we need to go get another reliever.

That Dude - thanks for picking up on that. I heard stark mention just yesterday that the one knock on Marson is that he has no power. Who are our catchers in the minors though now? Jarmillio is gone and so is marson. Anyone in the lower minors?

Jim Callis reaction from ESPN:

Stunned, frankly. From everything we've read about the Phillies, it seems the four pieces they value the most right now are in some order, Kyle Drabek, Dominic Brown, J.A. Happ and Michael Taylor. The Indians didn't get any of them. They got one high-upside guy (Knapp), and he's in low Class A and has some shoulder fatigue. The rest of the guys are solid regulars at best--they're not stars. Lee is very affordable for next season, and the AL Central is a very winnable division. I don't like this trade at all for the Indians. From the Phillies' standpoint, this is a great deal, to hold on to the young guys you want and get a frontline starter. I'd rather have Halladay than Lee, but I'd rather give up this package for Lee than meet J.P. Ricciardi's reported demands for Halladay.

Ricciardi crapped himself and then promptly started updating his resume...perhaps he and KLaw can do a joint column on ESPN next year?

Who are you people and what have you done with the Beerleaguers? I half expect a chorus of kumbaya. Just kidding. This is awesome.

Even better...the Tribe is in LA and the Phils are making a west coast swing.

Lee's next day to start is August 1st on 5 days rest since they had a day off.
The Phils are in SF on the 1st and Lincecum is schedule to start.

Let Lee start on 5 days and give everyone else an extra day. Bingo.

rolo: You'll have no problem replacing Tyler Walker, Kyle Kendrick, or Stephen Register in our BP.

So the question now is... who would still be in favor of giving up Happ/Drabek/Brown for Halladay? Think about it, we can have Halladay, the best pitcher in baseball, right now if we want. Anyone want to cry out "Go big or go home, Rube?!!"

This move probably improves the pen, as well, because Lopez has been a good reliever and can throw strikes -- which is more than can be said of Durbin. One thing which hasn't been mentioned . . . if we're really planning to bring up Pedro in a week or two, that doesn't leave room in the rotation for Moyer.

We still have D'Arnaud, Valle and Kennelly in that order.

Its definitely not an organziational strength anymore.

I know carrasco has potential - but they're getting to the point where they didn't have room for him. Drabek is the next one called up not carrasco. He was falling on the list.

I'm waiting for someone from the Toronto Sun to tweet that Ricciardi was just rushed to the hospital after complaining of chest pains

But what am I going to do with all these Doc Halladay, "I'll be your Huckleberry" t-shirts in Phillies red???

Lee slides in nicely as the #2 and keeps Hamels happy as the alpha #1.

Francisco is a solid 4th outfielder. He's relatively experienced (compared to Mayberry), has decent speed on the basepaths, and has pop. And plus, he's been on a tear recently so hopefully, the Phillies can put him right to work.

However, let's not go overboard on this trade. It's exciting because there's new blood and there's little doubt that Lee's got to be excited to coming to a WS contender.

Still, a rotation with 2 AL CYs, and a WS MVP ain't to shabby.

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