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Friday, July 31, 2009


Someone posted yesterday with the OPS splits for all or several of rotation so far this year (in an effort to ease concern about a lefty leaning group). Anyone have that handy?

Savery well on his way towards a career of being a journeyman 5th starter.


Savery was quite a hitter in college; perhaps he'll be a Micah Owings type.

We're all confident that Amaro will make some waiver wire move for relief help, right? Otherwise this is a team on a bit of a precipice.

Been hearing a lot of talk from analysts and talk show hosts that they feel there will be fewer protected contracts on the waiver wire this year because of the economy. I guess we shall see, but I think this is more likely where we will see any BP or bench additions at this point.

Washburn to Detroit.

"Savery well on his way towards a career of being a journeyman 5th starter."

From what I've read on BL, doesn't that describe all the pitching prospects?

Oh no. Dodgers picked up Vinny Rottino. Now they are surely in the NL catbird seat.

Tray: "Otherwise this is a team on a bit of a precipice."

Um... really?

Winners of 19 out of 24... just traded for the reigning AL Cy Young winner and some much needed RH bench help... best offense in the NL... best defense in the NL...

And were on a precipice?

This must be more of that awesome ironic humor that I've come to know and love on Beerleaguer.

Solution: Heath Bell

But it won't happen cause Amaro will live off of this Cliff Lee trade long into his future days as a comcast sports net analyst.

Gotta love the return of both Tray and RSB in recent days. Old-school Beerleaguer heads.

Whatever happened to Kdon?

Orlando Cabrera to Minnesota.

McG--Good point. It's not quite right to compare Utley's performance last year while injured to Lidge's performance this year while (perhaps) injured. Utley's performance was more frustrating than anything else, as he went from putting up MVP numbers to simply very good numbers. Lidge has gone from putting up excellent numbers (numbers that justified CY consideration to some folks) to putting up numbers that are flat out awful for a full time closer (as BAP has often noted).

wow philipbusters, that's harsh

rolo (from the last thread): You didn't ask me a question, so how could I answer one?

I read both pieces you're talking about. I respectfully disagree. The Phillies were staring at trading away three or even four players they did not want to part with for an ace and ended up trading NONE of them for the reigning Cy Young winner in the AL. They did this by making the trade 'centerpiece' a prospect with diminishing value (Carrasco) and an 18 year-old with a bunch of upside but no sure thing, who is currently injured. Donald and Marson were never going to be significant contributors to a championship team and probably won't be for Cleveland, either.

Rube hit a HR here, even if your Philadelphia-instincts lead you to believe he gave up the pharm.

Red Sox picking up Victor Martinez.

Can we call up Cairo and DFA Bruntlett?

1 hit all month and it was vs. the Reds SS. His second month with only 1 hit as he only had 1 hit in May as well.

Well, CJ, the precipice where we go into the playoffs, are within three or six outs of winning the NLCS or World Series, and commence to blow it. You'd have to admit that's a pretty huge possibility.

bruntlett plays every position except catcher, and he's the pinch runner. we're not getting rid of him, even if he develops a disease that turns wooden bats to dust when he touches them.

Actually, he may already have that.

If there were a Beerleaguer softball team, who would be on it and what position/lineup spot would everyone have?

Tray: Ah, yes... as a true Philly fan would do, we imagine the disaster. And I love the addtional dramatic imagery added to the pessimism: On the precipice...

I will continue to assume this is more of that awesome comedy I love.

J is clearly the manager.. look how he guided everybody into that debate about Sherrill by playing RSB / clout against the goodwill generated by the Lee trade. well managed, sir

Victor Martinez makes the C on Variteks chest stand for ______ fill in the blank

Also, loctastic, reading bruntlett referred to as a pinch runner made me wet myself a little. He wouldn't know what to do out there anymore.

"If there were a Beerleaguer softball team, who would be on it and what position/lineup spot would everyone have?"

I have dibbs at 3rd, batting out of the 6 hole.

PB - I don't recall Bruntlett making a baserunning mistake this year.. Charlie does use him for that.

JackL Most important position - guy that brings the beer or picks up the tab after the game.

philipbusters: There's talk that Martinez may actually get time at 1B and Lowell may be the odd man out as Youklis plays more at 3rd.

"PB - I don't recall Bruntlett making a baserunning mistake this year.. Charlie does use him for that."

Eric Bruntlett = Gold Medalist Bolt

I really hope that our championship shot is not reliant on the base running iq of gnome,troll,garbage can, whatever you want to call him.

Iceman, I never said he "gave up the pharm".

I said "if Knapp winds up as CLE #1 and Carrasco #2, it won't be a "low price"."

Neither one of us know how they'll eventually work out. For CLE it could wind up being a great trade or it could be the worst in the Tribe's history.

And, you are correct. I did not ask you a question. In my haste I confused you with RSB.

3rd base coach. I've got the Larry Bowa temper/vulgarity ability down pat.

I would be the closer!

Hey, I didn't say he was a world-class pinch runner. He just does the job. I mean, if you're going to burn a guy off your bench to be just a runner, it better be someone who can't hit..

Looks like Dodgers are in pretty hard on Heath Bell as well, here's to hoping they aren't able to land him.

"Well, CJ, the precipice where we go into the playoffs, are within three or six outs of winning the NLCS or World Series, and commence to blow it. You'd have to admit that's a pretty huge possibility.

Posted by: Tray | Friday, July 31, 2009 at 02:05 PM "

Tray, now you're just being silly.

The team hasn't even made the playoff yet and you're talking about a precipice in the NLCS & WS?

You don't put the cart TOO far in front of the horse, do you?

Wow, looks like the Dodgers are really going for broke this year. They are fighting for Heath Bell as well.

Wait, CJ, so you think our bullpen is anywhere close to where you'd want it to be for the playoffs? And yes, rolo, the NLCS and World Series. Our chances of making the playoffs are extremely high and you'd have to think it's more likely than not that we'd win in the first round. The question in my mind is whether we can get much farther than that, and obviously closer is a huge weakness, as is setup to a lesser extent.

I want to bring up Big Papi and Manny. Actually to be more accurate the whole steroids list debacle that's been going on. First we had rampant cheating, then we had ramapant lying, then there was a test that was supposed to be confidential and it's leaking little by little. After all of this why isn't their calls for Bud Selig's head. He has been an awful commissioner and has been very slow to act on this if not completely incompetant.

Tray: I see your point but counter will this food for thought.

Our bullpen has been burnt all year due to poor early season rotation, no? Since the season has moved on it has gotton a little better. But now that we have acquired Lee that puts us at 3 guys who can pitch at least 7+ innings each time out. With that said come playoff time when you are pitching mainly Hamels, Lee, Blanton I am really confident that our bullpen can close the game out. Asking Park,Eyre,Romero, Madson, Lidge to give us 2 innings at the most a night is VERY VERY likely that we can close out games.

Given the number of times I hear about memories from the 1964 season and such, my guess is that BL has a whole lot of 1B/Uncle Cholly types...

mvptommyd I made that point in a previous thread. I'm glad that we agree. I'm less concerned about the pen these days. Lidge still gives me a heartattack though.

McG: Sorry I missed that point. Lidge seems to give everyone a heart attack. But I have confidence in him. When reynolds hit that bomb the other night to the moon, you can't do anything about that. Reynolds is a beast. With that said, Lidge might still not be totally right, but each appearance he has been looking better and better. Again, not the Lidge of 2008 yet, but still not Tom Gordon eithier.

At least Sweet Lou should get to see some action in Cleveland sooner than he would have here.

while I have taken Lidge's 'side' today, I will disagree with one point mvp made..

You can do something about that, that slider was up in the zone. It was a great pitch to hit. Having said that, he did get the save.

locstatic: Bruntlett has actually made several egregious base-running blunders this year. As I recall, there was one sequence where he got doubled off in the base paths in back-to-back games (or 2 games just a few days apart) and, in one of those instances, it was because he took off running on an absolutely routine fly ball. I don't have the details handy, but I'm sure there's some poster who can recall the specifics.

Bruntlett = bad defense, bad base-running, and the worst hitter in baseball.

All right, maybe I'm wrong about the baserunning business. I'll go back to calling Bruntlett a ninny then, that's what I usually do when I'm around most people.

According to reports if Martinez goes to the Red Sox, the mets will trade with the red sox for Adam Laroche for 1st base.

Pedro vs. Carraso tonight in AAA

Should be interesting

mw217: I would be surprised to see Lou Marson called up to Cleveland sooner than their phenom Carlos Santana, even though Santana is only in AA. In 307AB he has 18HR, 71RBI and a 64/58 BB/K ratio with .926OPS. This follows a year where at two levels of Single-A and 2 games in AA he hit a combined 39 doubles, 21HR, 117RBI, 125R, 10SB, and a 89/85 BB/K ratio, batting .323 at one stop in Single-A and .352 in the other. He is the Indians' catcher of the future.

McG: baseball's owners, who are his bosses, have made a shitload of money under Selig's watch, and having him as the lighting rod for baseball's incompetence on steroids saves them from facing it directly. He's doing exactly what the owners are paying him a lot of money to do. He doesn't work for the fans or the players.

Tray: The point is I'm not ready to jump off the ledge because all of our perceived faults haven't already been fixed to the satisfaction of Beerleaguers.

We had countless complaints about our starting rotation and we brought in both Cliff Lee and Pedro Martinez.

We had countless complaints about our RH bench bat and we brought in Ben Francisco.

We now have plenty of complaints about our bullpen and I don't believe the bullpen we have right now will be the bullpen we have at the end of the year. But I also don't think that means we'll run out to trade for anyone either.

McG: I agree with your point. But who should be calling for Selig's head? To the best of my knowledge attendance has not suffered, if anything roids increased interest and attendance in the past 10 years. Fans continue to fill the seats and spend money on gear. So owners are making their money. Selig appoints Mitchell to investigate steriods. Mitchell is an ex-owner (or part owner I believe). Selig has ties to ownership as well. Players are making big money too. Everyone is making money and their happy. No reason to call for Selig's head.

Red Sox wheelin' and dealin'

LaRoche was just flipped to the Braves now. How long did he play for Boston? A week?

p. red: Wow, Mets fans are going to freak. I just read that he was going to be flipped to them.

locstatic: That's better. Praising Bruntlett on this site is like using profanity while teaching a class full of kindergarteners. It's a serious and unpardonable offense. A lot of bickering goes on at Beerleaguer, but contempt for Eric Bruntlett is the one unifying principle that brings us all together.

Jack - you rang? I'm back. What's good?

Bruntlett historic season.

Right now Bruntlett with a minimum of 90 PA, has the 39th all time worst OPS+ at 1. But it pales in comparison to number 3 on the list, Phillies current Bench Coach Pete Mackanin's rookie season with the Texas Rangers. He finished with a -22.

Other interesting names on this list who were worse? a 42 year old washed up Harold Baines. a 32 year old washed up Edgardo Alfonzo... (never played again)...

Eric Bruntlett, perhaps in the top 10 of all time worst Phillies?

I don't know how we can continue to keep him on the roster.

BAP: And a trade for Cliff Lee

Jerry Hairston Jr to the Yankees.

You telling me this guy wouldn't have been an upgrade over Bruntlett? Sometimes it's the little moves that make a big difference.

@ clout (from way back on last thread)...

Preseason prospect rankings are fairly worthless at this point, especially for a guy like Bell who's had a breakout at Double-A. He's probably the third best guy in their system at this point behind Ethan Martin and Tom Gordon's son. And that's the scouts and the guy's who have seen him (e.g. Keith Law) saying that, not me.

p. red: Hairston plays 3rd and LF. Bruntlett is our ONLY INF utility player. We need to trade for another INF utility guy that plays 1st, 2nd, SS.

kdon: Nice to see you back. Any thoughts on Phils right now?

Here's Bruntlett's comparison against Phillies of all time (min 90 PA/non pitchers)


"Eric Bruntlett is the one unifying principle that brings us all together."

I thought it was disagreeing with tommy . . . .

mvptommyd: From

Games by Position
2B: 9, 3B: 33, SS: 31, LF: 9, CF: 3, RF: 5, PH: 7

Seems like he does a bit of everything to me.

Hey wait a second, isn't this the blog where people argue stats and 'reverting to career norms'? Bruntlett is still a career .227 hitter.. he's due to bounce back!

Bruntlett is probably the worst positional player on a Major League roster right now.

Joe Beimel

I would of been fine with him. What is Rube doing today? Reading newspaper articles about how great his Cliff Lee trade?

Bruntlett = Tony Romo

"Sometimes it's the little moves that make a big difference."

They sure do, p Red.

Remember the 2004 ALCS? PINCH RUNNER Dave Roberts stole a base in the bottom of the 9th that led to the tying run.

The Steroid Twins (aka Liar Liar) won it in the bottom of the 12th.

But without the pinch runner stealing (WHICH CAN APPLY TO PH AS WELL), the Bosox don't reverse the curse.

philip: Probably out riding the trolleys, headed to Fisherman's Wharf for some lunch.

The trade deadline exists to remind us that most ML franchises are essentially farm teams for the big coastal cities.

By the way, on Steve Roadcap, my wife grew up hanging out with his nephew and around Steve. Very knowledgeable baseball guy that I wish for only good things to come. I've met him on a couple of occasions and impressed by his knowledge of the game.

Jack: Team looks good. I've noticed you've really stepped up your game since I was last active. Nice work and kudos to you.

Rube's done...he blew his load with Cliff Lee.

So, is Doc going to be moved today or not?

Not to jinx it but I'm feeling like he's gonna stay a BlueJay.

You all know by now where I stand.

Reds got Rolen

Yo, new thread.

I'm kinda at a loss for words for people to get down on Rube Jr. after pulling off a great trade. Only in Philadelphia, and only on this board.

Yes, he passed up George Sherrill. Maybe it's because he doesn't have prospects people want except the 8 players that have been discussed (Happ, Carrasco, Brown, Taylor, Drabek, Donald, Marson, Knapp). Maybe throw Savery onto that list, but Baltimore wanted more pitching and an infield prospect for Sherrill. You can cross Donald/Carrasco off the list then, and a reliever, no matter how good, is certainly not worth the team's best pitching prospect in Drabek, whom you would have had to use.

So, let's see, what's the better move: adding Donald/Carrasco to a package for Cliff Lee and landing a Cy Young winning pitcher for the biggest weakness on the team, the rotation, or holding those 2 for a closer with a bullpen currently depleted by injury but one which will be much better by mid-August?

Anyone who thinks the second alternative is better should be shot for the crime of Extreme Stupidity.

As others have pointed out, there's actually little room in the bullpen once the guys on the DL get healthy again, AND we've got the little problem of Myers and Martinez showing up in the next month. It's a good kind of problem to have, but a problem nonetheless. As of right now, Lopez is going into the pen to make room for Cliff Lee. Myers will go to the pen as well. Romero, Condrey, and Durbin will also return in the next month. That's 5 pitchers currently not sitting out there every game. Martinez will probably make the 6th pitcher.

Yes, Moyer should stay in the rotation, for the following reasons:

1) He's a soft tosser. Generally these pitchers tend to be less effective out of the bullpen.
2) Age. He's already conditioned himself to start every 5 days, and it's incredibly tough for a young mid-20's pitcher to switch his conditioning between the bullpen and the rotation. You want to see a 46 year old try that? HA!
3) Money. They're paying him 10 million a year, this year and next to start. For good or ill, he's in the rotation for this reason. You don't pay a guy 10 million for long relief.
4) He's actually been getting progressively better after an awful start, which even a cursory perusal of his statline shows, and shows clearly
5.09 4 23 1.57 2.5 5.86 5
8.01 6 30.1 1.68 1.5 4.45 9
4.80 5 30 1.30 2.85 6.00 5
3.30 5 30 1.27 1.5 4.45 2

So Pedro's in the bullpen. Frankly, I always though Martinez's signing was an emergency measure in case the Phillies didn't land Halladay or anyone else (Lee, Washburn, even Penny). Do I have any idea where he'll fit? No. I don't even know if he'll be effective. But this rotation:


should scare the hell out of everyone in the National League. Certainly 1-4 do.

"We now have plenty of complaints about our bullpen and I don't believe the bullpen we have right now will be the bullpen we have at the end of the year. But I also don't think that means we'll run out to trade for anyone either."

So you... think it means we'll bring back Escalona?

One of the arguments here is that the Phils have too many pitchers and another is that they don't have enough or at least not enough with the right skills.

Call me a cock-eyed optomist or whatever, but I see these two issues as self cancelling and ultimately working out.

hey, does anybody know what happened to Antonio Bastardo? Seems like his name has dropped off the face of the planet.

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