Part of CSNPhilly.com


« Breaking: Bullpen suffers double injury whammy | Main | Postgame: Phillies pound Padres 9-4 behind Hamels »

Thursday, July 23, 2009

Comments

As Admiral Ackbar would say...

It's a TRAAAAAP!!!!

I hate these kinds of games that we should so obviously win for so many obvious reasons.

No lineups yet? I figured this was gonna be a replacement game. Lots of deviations from the standard lineup.

Denny/Rich:

D'Arnaud is only 20 and he already has 2 of the 3 key skills that you would look for in a starting major league catcher: defense and the ability to hit for power. Now he just needs to learn to hit for average. And it's not even clear that he can't already do so. He did hit .300 last year and, after a terrible first half, he has been one of the Phillies' hottest hitters in the minors for the last month or so. It's not out of the question that he could end up with a decent average before the year is finished.

D'Arnaud is not Joe Mauer either. I wouldn't hesitate to trade him if the right deal came along. But he's a solid prospect.

I understand that trading Marson would leave us without a No. 3 catcher in case Bako or Ruiz get injured. But, in the big scheme of things, a No. 3 catcher just isn't at the top of the Phillies' priority list. If that No. 3 catcher can be used as trade bait to bring in a starting pitcher or key bullpen piece, you do it. If Bako or Ruiz then get injured, you call up Paul Hoover or you go find a backup somewhere on the waiver wire.

Seriously, is Paul Hoover any worse than Paul Bako? If so, it isn't by much.

I think wheels got a new rug. What a tool.

From the previous thread...

There are currently 3 NL catchers with more than 10 HR's and 2 NL starting catchers hitting over .280.


So downgrade Marson all you want. Just understand that there ain't many catchers in the majors right now, hitting for any power and/or hitting for a decent average.

He will have to keep improving his defense (which by all accounts he has this year) to truly hit his potential, but to think this guy won't be a big league starter is very foolish.

And because of the lack of top-end DEPTH for this team in 2009, he cannot afford to be traded. Period.

Blunt-no, old school line-up

I'm not as high on Marson as denny is, but I do think some of you are undervaluing him a bit. That said, I don't think i'd let him hold up any deals involving a stud pitcher.

"Seriously, is Paul Hoover any worse than Paul Bako? If so, it isn't by much."


Paul Hoover has played how many games in the bigs?

At least Bako has hundreds of big league games under his belt. He has a lot of trust among pitchers too.

You don't trade Marson. And if you do, you will live to regret it down the road when your catching position is a mess.

Good young catchers, who can hit and have upside, aren't exactly in abundance. The Phils have 2 of those right now. One in AAA, one heart-beat from the bigs (and he'd be in the bigs for several other teams) and one in A ball. I like deArnaud too. But he's nowhere near the bigs. And likely won't be for close to two years.

Look at the Cubs right now for reference, for what can happen. Soto gets fat and then gets hurt and now they are left with Koye Hill (who can't hit) and a converted infielder as the backup in Jake Fox.

Those guys some of you think you can go out and just "plug in" if Ruiz or Bako gets hurt, aren't out there. And if they are, they aren't nearly as good as Marson.

Denny: I don't doubt that Marson will be a big league starter. I just doubt it will be with the Phillies. His defense is not on a par with Ruiz and the difference in offense is probably not enough to make up for it. If even a guy like Marson is untradeable, then you're basically saying the 2009 team is fine as is, and should stand pat. You are not going to improve the team by using JJ Furmaniak and Terry Tiffee as trade bait.

2 nice quick outs. This is usually the time that Cole gives up the obligatory first inning homerun.

BAP,

It's not out of the question that he could end up with a decent average, in Mid-A ball. His power is fair, he does have 10 homers, but that's not outstanding either. My thought on D'Arnaud is that he'll turn into a fair hitter, a .250 type, with 10 homers or so a year in him. That's not awful from a big league catcher, but I think Marson will hit for higher average than that, which would probably be more beneficial to this team out of the 8 hole.

As for who I'd trade, I'd try to trade D'Arnaud instead of Marson, but I'd trade either IF it got us a can't miss arm. D'Arnaud won't help us until maybe 2011, but I'm thinking 2012, so he's got no real value to us anyway. However, look, if Marson means Halladay, you're right, a #3 catcher isn't that important. I don't believe he should be third though. I'm kind of tired of "the human ground ball" we have hitting 8th, and can't stand Bako. I think Marson could outplay both now. And yes, Hoover could match Bako, but that says little.

First pitch. Pop out. Classic JRoll.

While we're arguing prospects, did anyone see the profile on Michael Taylor from John Sickels?

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2009/7/23/960031/prospect-profile-michael-taylor

The money quote:

"He's definitely a Grade B+ prospect at least right now, and if the end-of-season Triple-A numbers are solid he could get a Grade A-."

What the hell are they talking about?

Re: Marson

Carlos Ruiz hit over .300 his last 2 full seasons in the minors too..

Ugh, Howard crushed that, I thought it was totally gone.

So close, so close ...

Wet and unseasonably chilly July weather is actively hurting this team.

I'm not exactly certain what Ibanez wanted there, but a fastball down the heart of the plate for strike 3 looking is a bit silly.

This whole summer has been unseasonably chilly. How many days have been above 90 degrees? Not too many in Kutztown, I'll tell you that.

from last thread:

Lou Marson classified as 'untouchable' is crazy. We have 2 catchers on the roster, and you're telling me that trading one in AAA is more valuable than acquiring Roy Halladay for our starting rotation?

If Ruiz gets hurt and Bako gets hurt at the same time, then go sign some bum veteran catcher floating around - the bum can't be much worse than Bako anyway.

So much for the perfect game ...

Also, Joe Mauer is probably the only catcher I wouldn't trade for Hallday, and with our offense I still might do it.

So denny, unless you think Marson will be better than Joe Mauer, its ludacris to call him untouchable.

Would I move Marson for a 5th starter type? No, but thats not what untouchable is.

tg082: Unbelievably, weather.com shows that Philadelphia has not reached 90 degrees even once through June and July.

was i the only one mildly concerned about the way raul stopped that ball?

i'm not saying he doesn't look healthy, but falling on your knees and stopping the ball with your chest isn't exactly the epitome of youth.

Geez, if Howard and Werth could have hit the ball a collective total of two feet longer, it'd be 4-0 right now.

Adrian Gonzalez has to be the least protected slugger I've ever seen. He won't see 10 good pitches the rest of the year without a little protection.

Zach Morris: Wow, it felt like we were having a cool summer, but I can hardly believe that. Probably going to have a horrifyingly hot August to balance it out.

And nice bit of hitting there by Pete Happy.

Jimmy!!

Nice Work Jimmy!

"And Jimmy just keeps on hitting!" says Generic Announcer Guy. JRoll haters on BL have to keep quiet for one AB.

Nice job, Jimmy!!! :-D

Another fly ball from Jimmy.

Was the Vic beaning deliberate? (On Gameday only)

bap - I disagree on your assessment of the three skills desired in a ML catcher.

The defense is one category but there are many aspects of this part which unfortunately gets stereotyped as mainly the ability to throw out runners.

Blocking the plate (Ruiz specialty), framing pitches, plays at the plate (Barajas anyone) and fielding bunts are other important skills in addition to having a gun for arm.

A whole other category is game management while trying to not piss off a Hamels or Moyer must be a trying task and earn their respect.

Lastly a catcher is the field general outside in conjunction with the shortstop and leadership qualities are desired to be successful.

Being athletic in my opinion is probably more desirable than power although the two in alot of cases are related.

Sweep the leg Chase, SWEEP THE LEG!

Shane didn't look too thrilled when he got plunked, but I don't think this guy wanted to put two guys on for Chase (who promptly made him pay).

NEPP: I doubt it. Looks more like poor pitching than bad intent.

Come on NEPP. You know better than that.

Is it wrong to point out that Kevin Correia is batting nearly 60 points higher than Eric Bruntlett?

Pods and Mets couldn't put a ML lineup together between them right now.

I like this version of Cole Hamels better than the 1st half version.

41 pitches through three. This is the Cole Hamels that we know and love.

NEPP: Any time you can get in a dig at Eric Bruntlett, it would be wrong NOT to do so.

Awesome!

(Dumb play by that second baseman, though. He should have just held it.)

NEPP: I just mean that there is no way that a mediocre starting pitcher is throwing at guys in the second inning when he's in danger of getting shelled. Doesn't make any sense. I get tired of batters that take exception every time they get hit. You have to think of the game situation, Fortunately Vic was aware.

Vote for Pedro.

That was oddly similar to the 2nd inning.

Really should hold onto that ball too, would only have had him with a perfect throw.

The Padres look every bit like what their record says they are: one of the worst teams in baseball.

I don't care how good a catcher is defensively. You can't have a guy in the NL start 110-120 G if he hits .210-.220 with limited power as Ruiz is on pace to do again. That's just giving up too many outs although Ruiz is walking enough to have a respectable enough OBP.

Michael Taylor having a breakout game tonight. 2 for 2 with a homerun.

"So denny, unless you think Marson will be better than Joe Mauer, its ludacris to call him untouchable."


I swear, this is the last comment on this subject tonight...

Nobody in professional baseball is better then Joe Mauer at his position.

But the day Coste was let go, was the day THIS YEAR, that Marson became untouchable (if he wasn't already).

Again good upside catchers, who have shown ability at all levels to hit, are NOT easy to come by. And when you have one (or two, in the Phils case) you are in the minority. Of course, the Phils have used high draft picks on both Marson and DeArnaud, so its not that big a surprise they have two in their system. Wade and Gillick made it a priority in their time as GM's.

I value the catching position very highly and know how tough it is to find a quality one, so I have a hard time wanting to trade one, when you have one on the cusp of making it to the big club. And especially when you are now so painfully thin in catcher depth in the top half of the organization.

Now onto this game... The Pads lineup is an absolute joke. If you combined the current Mets and Pads lineups, you still wouldn't have a good major league team. Awful.

LA is saying that he isn't suggesting that Durbin said he was hurt because he knows he's been pitching poorly and just needs a break.

Translation: LA thinks Durbin is saying that he was hurt all this time as an excuse for his poor pitching.

Denny: lowest average and runs scored in baseball. So yeah, they're awful. But Baltimore has 20% of their road wins against the Phillies, so you never know.

Seems like Hamels is getting hit pretty hard this inning and having some control problems, after being pretty stellar in the first 3 innings.

sheesh, pull it together cole

Balls. Unbelievable.

Ok, Hamels is getting hit extremely hard, I lied.

Pretty sad. Our offense is going to have to keep it going.

Crap. Kyle Blanks, really?

That's the Hamels who falls apart & surrenders cheap HRs when things don't go his way.

Who said this is the Hamels we know and love?

Bizarre. How can you pitch 3 great innings and then just completely lose your command?

The Jays leverage increasing by the minute.

Thats OK. Fortunately, we still have Marson in the minors.

Non-Sequiter....has anybody seen the lame ass new McCafe commercial with the Motorcycle in the rain? Is JW doing commercials now? I'm a retard with computer technology or I'd have a screen shot but check out seconds 4-8 in this video and tell me that isn't Mr Werth!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GmSd7jk1yM

B_A_P: He's been like this all season so far. Will he turn it around or are we going to be subject to this the remainder, I wonder?

Jimmy!

The radio guys are now saying that Vic probably got hit on purpose earlier. He was 5-9 with a homer off this guy.

Pods matching their game high run total since ASB. Nice, Cole.

Pads were completely out of this game and were rolling over like a trained lab. Now they have something to rally around and will play like its for their playoff life...trap indeed...

NEPP: Turns out there was possible intent on the Vic HBP. LA just mentioned that Shane has torn this guy up, & the first inning hit might have been the last straw for Correia.

If chase walks, I have no confidenc in Howard to get the run home.

They totally pitched around Utley to get to Howard...

how in the world was that a first pitch strike to howard?

Howard says "Suck it, Smoky." :)

The philly.com game tracker had that pitch as a ball and then changed it to a strike.

Thank you, Thank you very much...

SmokeyJoe: Oh ye of little faith ...

RY HO! JAI HO!

Rauuuuuuuuul!

By the way, liked your Star Wars reference, CJ.

rib eyes.

Raaaaúúúúúúúúúúúúllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-D

Good on the offense to come back & put up some runs right away; it's exactly what you want to see, esp. against a team like SD.

That was a miracle that Raul got in there.

I would not have sent him, with his bad groin and all

Doin' it without the homerun.

From the replay, it looks like Ibanez was out. It was so close, though, as to be a virtually impossible call.

NCPhilly: Which is amazing, esp. considering how much the Phillies benefit from playing in such a joke of a bandbox at home ...

Double play by Ruiz? Who would have guessed that?

Werth's overall OPS is now over .900 and his OPS against righties is over .800.

That's an all star right there.

Donc said "I think wheels got a new rug. What a tool"

I think it is actually a retired piece of the ass of the Nitany Lion suit that he wore out from kissing so much. The "Marple Newtown Celebritory" committee paid for the glue.

The Big Man!!! :-D Sam Perlozzo = Worth Every Penny.

He's so much better at defense it's like watching someone totally different.

Hamels at 86 pitches; he'll be lucky to make it to the 7th.

Strike zones the last couple of days have been bizzare.

Just bc I have some expertise on the matter: "Unseasonably" cool summer here is due to El Nino, and there won't be an unreasonably hot August to compensate. Additionally, October should be more blustery and more cold than it was last year...so hold on to your post-season hats in New England.

Once global warming really revs up, El Nino/nina will simply disappear.

@PhillyBlunt

"Once global warming really revs up, El Nino/nina will simply disappear."


errr.....no comment.

Youch, scary moment right there. Good thing he turned away a bit.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories

HardballTalk

Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel

CSG