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Wednesday, July 22, 2009


I think I saw this report somewhere, so it's just of imbedded in my brain and I aplogize for recycling it, but...

Any chance Rodrigo Lopez becomes trade bait and we can land a bench player for him? Possibly deal him to a fringe contender?

On the LaRoche deal: "the Pirates receive pitcher Hunter Strickland and shortstop Argenis Diaz."

A preliminary note here: day-game Moyer, not in our top 3 or even 4 of starters right now, again Big Z, the Cubs' ace. This is the kind of game that ends winning streaks.

However despite Chicago's big advantage with the pitching match-up, I expect to read plenty of complaints and crying about Moyer and the 'complacent' offense if things go poorly. After all, according to Lake Fred, complaining is what 'real men' do.

Is it just me (watching on dtv with wgn out of Chicago) or does it seem like the producers may run out of shots of the philly skyline soon? I guess they should be happy it's a 3 game series

Iceman: Though complaining does get tiresome, especially sniping after the fact, it is sort of the Philly way to expect the worst. The in-game stuff doesn't bother me so much, but all this "I told you so" and other sniping after the fact is very juvenile indeed.

I don't see Rodrigo Lopez being much of a movable commodity. Even after a few decent starts he is still scrap heap material. He isn't someone that can steady a rotation and give consistent innings. He has done well for the Phillies but he hasn't proven anything. Hence the Phillies got Pedro and are looking for more pitching. That said, he may catch on in the Phillies pen or someone else's if he is cut loose, but no one will give a useful player for him.

From the previous thread:

phlipper, you're obfuscating now.

What I was responding to was your defense of tommy's incessant need to keep saying over and over and over and over and over and over "I told you so".
Most of us who favored a RH bat instead of Ibanez (check the archives - I thought Manny's "bat" would be better than Raul's - never mind the other stuff) have acknowledged that Raul was a good signing - for now.

We get it.

However, what the signing looks like three years form know remains to be seen. We've already lost him for 21 games to a groin injury.
So, if you want to continue to defend juvenile immaturity that's getting old then that says more about you than anyone else.

Unfriendly umpire. We're in trouble.

Larry Anderson's homerism is out of control. Apparently none of the balls called on Moyer pitches were out of the strike zone?

Bako demonstrating early on what a defensive upgrade he is over Coste.

Moyer getting squeezed.

And then a great play.

ftl John,

I posted this on the previous thread from Ken Rosenthal:

"Right-hander Rodrigo Lopez, who has made exactly three starts for the Phillies, might actually become a trade candidate once righty Pedro Martinez joins the rotation and/or the club trades for a starting pitcher such as Halladay or Lee. Lopez, 2-0 with a 2.60 ERA, could get moved in an August waiver deal, if not sooner. His $650,000 salary is affordable to all ..."

If he's traded, I'm not sure they'll get much for him.

Paul Bako in the starting lineup. We're in trouble.

donc - Andersen has a legit gripe. Moyer was hitting his spots right on the money in that inning.

Bako is going to win us some games with his defense.

Good signing.


Latest from Ricciardi (via

Ricciardi expects the Roy Halladay trade talks will come to a head early next week, he said Wednesday.

Ricciardi said the Blue Jays "haven't even really exchanged names" yet with teams pursuing Halladay because they're still scouting the minor-league systems of the clubs involved.

"But we're getting really close to sitting down and telling teams, 'This is what it's going to take,'" Ricciardi said. "I'd say going into Monday, we'll pretty much have our cards on the table."

That wouldn't leave those teams much time to complete a deal before the Jays' unofficial deadline of Tuesday, July 28. But Ricciardi quipped: "We'll see how fast people want to move."

Ricciardi did say, however, that he doesn't consider next Tuesday to be a firm deadline.

T^his contradicts several absurd reports that have been floating around, notably the Heymann report on the Mets turning down an offer.

Get to Z early. Once he's on, he's tough to crack.

I really don't think any deal is going to be done for Halladay at this point.

clout: At any point in the article does Riccardi say, "We need to dump payroll"?

RSB: Thanks. LA's griping is really on my last nerve though. Bet he's a BLer.

clout: Heyman's report was stupid. If it were true, it'd be GREAT news for the Phils because a comparable offer wouldn't include Drabek, Happ or Knapp!

I'd claim to be LA, but I'm not nearly drunk enough. Yet.

Truth: No. Nor has that ever been reported.

rolo -

Since you rolled it over to this thread:

Once again, to give a full evaluation you need to also compare Ibanez to Burrell over the next three years. Related to that point, although Ibanez has missed time - the younger Burrell missed more time, no? That is another reason why simply pointing to Ibanez's age next year and the year after is a shallow point. The guy is a stud. All indications are that he will significantly outperform any assessments made simply on the basis of his chronological age.

At this point - given what Ibanez has meant to the Phils this year, I'll be willing to give him a lot of leeway in years to come anyway.

And in all fairness - I was wrong also. I thought that the Ibanez vs. Burrell tradeoff would be a lateral move. Clearly, it was an upgrade offensively, defensively, and maybe even in terms of team chemistry. It seems likely that Ibanez's incredible approach at the plate will rub off on other players.

Why can't we successfully steal anymore? WTF is going on?

Also rolling over to this thread what is undoubtedly the most ironic post ever put up at Beerleaguer:

A post from clout:

"It's the same bitter and angry sniping, post after post."

clout, good post.

I honestly thought we were past the Burrell/Ibanez argument as a group by this point. It's been beaten into the ground even by Beerleaguer neverending argument standards.

phlipper/flipper: Ironic in your mind, but totally accurate. Go back and look at your posts and you will see (and everyone else on this board has ssen).

Ryno will have no more of this jeering over not putting balls in play. It ends now.

i for one like LA's cantakerous musings on the state of umpiring. complaining about the umpire is a rite of summer. it lends a sort of "everyman sensibility" to the broadcast that i find both amusing and comforting.

Sometimes I think this is the only sports team blog, where the 'home' team fans troll themselves

Good thing our RBI hopes in this inning rely on freaking Bako.

loctastic- hysterical.

Paul Bako is all that is wrong with this world.

No sarcasm.

I wrote a nice lengthy post at the end of the last thread telling Iceman to go the The Little Sisters of the Poor website if he doesn't like complaining, but the Beerleaguer gods took my post to the ether and lost it.

Iceman took offense at my use of the term "real men" and told me so. Iceman, you have me and BL all wrong. I'm not going to start crying because you disagree with me. I'm not going to stop posting because you don't like posts that complain about managerial decisions or player performances.

I did take Chase's quote out of context. I used his "Boo" and likened it to all you whiny babies crying about BLers not always being nice about Cholly's decisions. You want to "boo hoo" on all of that? I'll take Chase's comment and say "Boo?! F#@% you!"

Ryan Howard flashing the leather. Can we all agree that this is far and away the most pleasant surprise regarding Howard's game?

NEPP: LaRoche is a free agent at season's end and the players the Pirates got back are minor league filler.

Flash the leather Ryno!

well, on the plus side, i'd have to say the only position i'd really like to see upgraded offensively is catcher, not many teams can say that about their lineup. if marson can be effective in the bigs, this lineup could get even scarier.

I wouldn't mind Bako if we didn't have someone in AAA that honestly couldn't do any worse. And he was actually used like a backup.

And Bruntlett would only be annoying instead of infuriating if he was actually used as a 25th man instead of first guy off the bench in high leverage situations.

way to make up for the last one, bako

phlipper, again, you're obfuscating.

My main objection was to you defense of tommy's incessant "I told you so" posts.

Enough already.

Marcus Hayes talks about the Phils farm system in this interesting article.

This caught my eye: "Meanwhile, Kyle Kendrick has, for the moment, mastered a changeup - a mastery denied by an emergency call-up from Double A to the majors in 2007 and limited development opportunities as a big-league starter last season. After a disastrous second half, the Phillies left him off their playoff roster. If he keeps pitching like this, he might be on it this year.

He has been impressed with Kendrick, 6-5 with a 3.42 earned-run average overall but with a 2.01 ERA in his last four starts.

"Another outstanding step," Huppert said."

Lake Fred: the funny thing is I'm not crying about anything. I'm amused at the whining you and others put forth during games online. As a fan, personally, I feel like we're on top of the baseball world right now. Why would I 'whine' about anything?

My comments are meant to mock you people more than anything. As a fan, no, I feel I have nothing to complain about at this point and subsequently feel bad for those who do. If we were at a bar, I'd buy you a beer, pat you on the back and ask you what was so wrong in your personal life than you have to take your aggression out on the likes of Eric Bruntlett.

On a side note, the only reason I frequent this website is because the commentary from JW and the accompanying discussion from readers- even the whiners- is so far and away better than any other Phillies-related blog on the web, and it's not even close. I only wonder if all the 'regulars' here would meet up somewhere for a game, would it result in some sort of a fight? Some serious animosity floating around here, especially during the team's LONGEST WINNING STREAK SINCE 1991.

I wish Moyer was getting that corner.

Chase is struggling right now. I mean, at least Ryan Howard has gotten himself on base a couple of times in his last 8 at bats...

And then Moyer fell apart.

I think I saw a wheel flying past me. They're coming off. Old Man Moyer needs some magic here to get out of the inning down just 2 or 3 runs.



CJ: Nope. Let the laugher commence.

Like I said... needed magic there.

This is what we get out of Moyer every couple of starts. He can't be anywhere close to effective with a "hitter's" umpire.

Time for the bats to come awake because Moyer won't make this easy for us.

Defense sounds sloppy, I bet they are hungover from last night.

Oh well, I told a friend going to be ready, Moyer games always take forever. I hate being right.

So, has Chase deserved a couple of errors today like they're saying on the radio?

If he can get Johnson here, we're still in OK shape. I mean, it's manageable.

Matt: The first, I believe was on Bako because the ball was tailing away from Chase. This one was definitely on Chase.

I will trust that Amaro will do the right thing and not allow Moyer to ruin a decent season !!!!!!!!!!! I am so sick and tired of every other half decent outing !!!


Manageable. I've seen this team come back from a lot worse.

Big Z's movement today is pretty sick though..

Matt: Yep. I'm surprised the official scorer didn't put that error on Shane like he did to Bako earlier with Utley's misplay...

Dick allen: take some prozac man.

Jeez. I blink and the Cubs score 4 runs. Still a manageable game at this point, though. This offense can score runs in bunches too. We should have all learned by now to never count this team out until the final out is recorded.

If they could string anything together against Zambrano I'd feel a lot better about their comeback chances, but the offense just looks dead today.

Srsly, dick-allen. Step away from the ledge.

This game has a bad feel to it. 2 errors, lousy pitching. Why the hell did Amaro outbid himself and give Moyer 2 years and so many million again?

I hate Moyer games, unless he gets a friendly umpire or pitches against little leaguers, it's always a roller coaster.

Iceman, you are so full of it! You wrote "what was so wrong in your personal life than you have to take your aggression out on the likes of Eric Bruntlett." In an earlier post you wrote "10 to 1 odds your wife/g/f has you by the balls if that's the standard to which you hold your 'masculinity."

Why the personal attacks? You write with a smug arrogance that you are above the fray, amused at our "whiny" comments, while you enjoy the Phillies success, with nothing to complain about. While you are living in your perfect world, you continue by writing "My comments are meant to mock you people more than anything."

Iceman, there is nothing wrong with me or my personal life. I do not need you to "mock" me or my fellow BLers. I find your style of "attack" writing, while feining being all love and flowers, totally distasteful.

Oh, Iceman, how'd you like Moyer's pitching today? Any complaints? Any whining? Go pound sand!

Lake Fred - No need to get so bet out of shape. Iceman is just one of those "Everything is Sunny" now folks since the WFC. Any criticism or talk about perceived deficiencies on the club is met with a fierce and personal rebuke.

Lets not go all Metsblog with the personal attacks.

However, it is always okay, regardless of the team's record or winning streak, to want them to get rid of Bruntlett and Bako.

This homeplate ump is a disgrace.

Phils have generally managed to play subpar baseball it seems in BSP the last couple of years at CBP. Hopefully Piniella feels he can't use Marmol today because it will be tough enough to come back against Zambrano and a solid Cubs' pen.

Thanks, MG. I'm only bent out of shape because Iceman made personal attacks. On BL, we need to distinguish between attacking a person's opinion and the person themselves. Iceman hasn't learned that life's lesson in etiquette.

Hey MG - It's always sunny in Philadelphia!

Y'all are going to make me dress up as Greenman in order to have everyone make peace, aren't you..

Well, I guess it's fair to say that Jamie Moyer is washed up.

Lopez will get to keep his spot in the rotation when Pedro gets here after all!

If ever there was an example of 'proving an antagonist's point indirectly,' Lake Fred's 'Go Pound Sand' post is certainly it.

Assuming Pedro does well on his trip up here, and Lopez pitches serviceably from here on (say, ERA of 4.25), is there any reason Jamie should stay in the rotation?

As I pointed out earlier today- Thanks to my Baseball Reference subscription I was able to crunch numbers and discover Eric Bruntlett's .395 OPS is the 9th worst this decade by a player with 90+ plate appearances. It's the 109th worst since 1901. Release him!!!

Of course he's not the problem today, it's Grand Pappy Moyer. Love ya Moyer, but maybe you should have retired.

The problem is the home plate ump is Iassogna and he hates the Phils

Iceman, go back to the Mets sites. You are obviously a Mets troll. You started all this personal attack nonsense.

It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

CJ: I wouldn't say Jamie is washed up, it's just a bad day for him. Bad ump for him, day game, poor defense, and Cubs hitters are finding holes.

There has to come a point where Moyer is lifted from the rotation. He pitches well every once in a while, but in general he's been very bad this season. If not for great run support he'd have a horrible record.

And more importantly than all that, what is with Feliz and the infield singles. Feels like he has 4-5 of them this year, very un-Feliz like.

I agree 100% Carson ... If Rodrigo keeps on pitching well, and Pedro has anything in left in the tank, I'd hope that Moyer is pulled from the rotation

Bako base hit! They should put that on the evening news.

iceman: memo to fans of your persuasion: It's people like you who ALLOW the home team to think it's all ok when its not. Just remember its not ok to pitch to > 6.00 era and continue to have you job and its NOT OK TO HIT .132 AND REMAIN IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES. When you continue to put pressure on the home team and its executives you would be suprised how your voice is sometimes heard..Have a great day !!!!!!

I got my rally cap on! Nothing screams rally like a Bako rope into right field. (And I use the term "rope" lightly.)

Moyer didn't pitch well today but the defense all let him down today on a couple of plays. Besides getting some calls, he also needs to have nearly flawless D behind him and he didn't get it.

That said, I will don't want to see Moyer starting a player game even if he has a "veteran presence" and wouldn't mind seeing the Phils dip into the trading market for a second-tier starter like they have down the past 2 years with Lohse & Blanton.

It's the same story every outing for Moyer. If he gets a favoable strike zone, he's Cy Young; if not, he's washed up.

Am I whining? No.

Not sure why we'd go Mayberry here instead of Stairs. Because it's earlier in the game? We have two men on base and we're down 5 runs, it's the best chance we'll have to score multiple runs, we should use our best hitters.

Hey hey hey! Let's go Jimmy!

Wait, with Ibanez on the bench isn't Stairs the PH play here?

Manuel's use of Mayberry over Stairs once again confounding, especially with Ibanez on the bench.

MG: Defense let him down? There were two throwing errors. And I don't believe either direcly contributed a run that wouldn't have scored otherwise.

These runs are all on Moyer. He pitched like batting practice today.

And by that I mean I'm sorry I doubted the gut, great hitting John.

RSB - He's saving him for the 8th/9th inning rally.

Ugh, Pedro.

Nevermind! Always trust the Gut!

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