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Wednesday, July 29, 2009


The Washburn press conference is tentatively scheduled for 11:30 AM on Thursday...he is expected to join up with the team in San Francisco.

Call the hotel in AZ and see if Happ's bags are being loaded into a limo.

Bring on the debate. Is this for Lee or Halladay? And God bless the interwebs for what will now be a minute-by-minute breakdown.

washburn is 3rd on my list behind halladay and lee (obv). i hope this is for lee and not washburn.

I smell relief pitcher

or Cliff Lee haha


There were more indications Wednesday that the Phillies' pursuit of Indians pitcher Cliff Lee is heating up.

Three Cleveland scouts -- including the club's director of player personnel, Steve Lubratich, were in Lehigh Valley to watch the Phillies' Triple-A team play an 11 a.m. ET game.

Phillies starter Carlos Carrasco, who has been a subject of talks between the two teams, was abruptly scratched from his start in that game with no explanation from the club.

An official of a team that had been speaking to Cleveland about Lee told Wednesday morning it was his impression that Lee was about to be traded elsewhere, and the Phillies' discussions with Toronto about Roy Halladay have slowed to a trickle in the last 24 hours.

Phillies officials have continued to tell other clubs they believe they can make a deal for Lee without giving up either their top pitching prospect, Kyle Drabek, or their top position-player prospect, outfielder Dominic Brown.

Its definitely not Halladay...unless Rube uncovered some pretty incriminating photos of Ricciardi.

*****Right now, I think Eaton would likely perform better than Lidge***** - but if Lidge doesn't turn things around, I sure hope we aren't placing our hopes on Myers.

Posted by: phlipper | Wednesday, July 29, 2009 at 11:09 AM

Please, someone, ANYONE, please tell me that, on the previous thread, I didn't read what is written between the asterisks!!!!


This would be a steal if it's Carrasco, Donald and Marson for Lee. I don't think the Indians are doing that though. They already have a stud catching prospect.

There has to be more involved if it's for Lee.

Any word on whether Dominic Brown remains in the Clearwater lineup for their game this afternoon?

rolo. It's called hyperbole.

The Toronto Globe and Mail is reporting that JP Ricciardi still wants Drabek in any trade and, furthermore, wants primae noctis with Drabek's eventual wife as part of any trade...

Indians had looked into Knapp as of yesterday. Knapp, Carrasco, Donald and Marson. The Indians need pitching, catcher, and not OF. LaPorta, Sizemore, Choo and a solid farm system.

GloBlairRT @CMSB: @GloBlair From a minor-league source--Cliff Lee traded to Phillies for Carrasco, Marson, and Donald.

guy who follows the BJs twitter dont know if its true

Its gotta be Lee.

If this is for Lee, did Ricciardi overplay his hand?

Or, is Halladay headed somewhere in the AL - NYY, BOS, LAA?

Or, is Halladay headed to the Dodgers?

Sneed: They don't need Catcher. Carlos Santana is one of the top 3 catching prospects in the game.

But I still think it makes sense if Knapp is involved. That could certainly be the package for Lee.

If Lee becomes a Phillie,

Lee > Hamels?

What's the CW out there? Who's our #1?

Hamels is the #1 in that scenario.

Zolecki tweets:
Heard Marson and Donald had been scheduled to have today's game (which started at 11 a.m. ET) off.

Maybe they aren't in whatever possible deal is going down?

this mite be me getting crazy, but if that is the deal, couldn't they still get halladay? i mean i'd still trade drabek, brown and happ for hallady. Hallady, hamels, lee, blanton? Jesus!

Kyle Drabek better win the Cy Young every year for a decade if Ruben is so concerned about this kid to not get Halladay

What if he's only a cheap AS level pitcher?

The Indians are known to want high ceiling pitching, which Knapp and Carrasco could be considered. Johnny Peralta is below replacement level right now, so maybe they really do want Jason Donald.

heard on WIP that yahoosports is reporting that the red sox are getting halladay, dont know if that's true

MPN - hahaha

Lee is a relatively cheap option both in the sense that he'd come way cheaper than Halladay and that his contract is relatively small. Pro rated 5.75M this year, 8M option/1M buyout in 2010. His BB rate is a touch up as is his LD rate; velocity looks good. I could get excited about this. Would rather stomach trading Drabek and getting Halladay though.


"...Hallady, hamels, lee, blanton? Jesus!"

Are you saying that you'd make Jesus the #5 in the rotation after Halladay, Hamels, Lee, and Blanton?

I can't agree - he'd be the #4 in my rotation.

Wow we're a twitchy bunch today. I am so going to need a beer by Friday 4:01pm.

Ah who am I kidding, I'll probably have one at 4:01pm today. or at noon today.

Jack: Get a life. Seriously dude. Carlos Santana (voice). Remember when the only Carlos Santana you knew about was a musician? I said "near-term" dummy.

3 things....

1.) According to Yahoo sports, Halladay is going to Boston

2.) According to espn, Lee is coming here...


"Reading tommy boy's posts, you would think I said Lidge sucked or is washed up. Not so.

Posted by: rolo | Wednesday, July 29, 2009 at 10:14 AM "

Ummm, Rolo aka AWH aka Rolo-tation, weren't you the one campaigning for us to REPLACE Lidge as closer? That must mean you think he sucks or wshed up, no?

@phlipper, that cracked me up, good looks keeping it light in here!

Sneed: Settle down broseph. You miss your coffee or something? Get a life (voice). From the guy reposting Stark comments.

Santana is 23 and in Double-A. And they have Victor Martinez right now. Near-term.

Oye Como Va.

Ah yes,Jesus.
I like very much.

Ruben lacks the testicular fortitude to make 2 big deals and JP is a greasy prick.

Stark also contemplating we would give up Trevor May. So Carrasco, Knapp, May and a position player, which could be Donald or Taylor.

10:23am:'s Todd Zolecki hears Marson and Donald were scheduled to get the day off. Jeff Blair of the Globe and Mail hears that Carrasco's absence from the game has nothing to do with Halladay.

It's getting crazy in here, eh? Love the deadline.

****Trevor May. So Carrasco, Knapp, May and a position player, which could be Donald or Taylor.****

That's a fair deal...though there's a HUGE difference between Taylor and Donald on the prospect scale...please let it be Donald.

Brown still in today's Clearwater lineup...

my impression of me for the next few hours:

rrrreeeeeeefresh refresh refresh refresh refresh

Giving up Taylor would definitely make more sense for Lee--and it would make the deal more painful. I would still do Taylor, Carrasco, Donald and May for Lee.

I was okay with giving up Drabek for Halladay and so it sort of follows that I should be okay with giving up Carrasco for Lee.

But Z. McCarthy is right--Drabek better turn out to be something special if it ends up that Rube chose him over Halladay.

Just to change up the convo amidst this hotstoving:

What do BLers think about the DiceK situation in Boston? If you were the Boston FO/staff, would you let DiceK do his marathon side sessions? There's a lot of interesting cultural stuff cropping up.

"But Z. McCarthy is right--Drabek better turn out to be something special if it ends up that Rube chose him over Halladay."

Everyone leaves out of the equation the fact that Drabeck will earn, over the next 4 or 5 years, less than Halliday will earn for the rest of this one. He doesn't have to become Cy Young to make standing pat on him the winning move.

How nice would it be if the Phils could get a good young catcher along with Lee from the Indians?

And how nice is it that the Phils are well entrenched in first place and have a dugout full of young prospects they could trade to get even better.

This can't be Philadelphia.

phlipper: If Moyer is trending downward due to age, I really must object to the inclusion of Jesus in any potential rotation. And Rube would be an idiot to give Him a multi-year deal.

Hmm...maybe DiceK should listen to his training staff...considering he's had a rough year to begin with. $100 million well spent there.

im starting to sweat in my seat just reading this thread, and didnt even check the actual sources yet

ANother new thread

You're forgetting Washburn over in Seattle. A shortstop prospect, a catching prospect, and a pitching prospect, all nearly major league ready, for a number 2 starter. THat, to me, is a better deal than Drabek, Brown, Taylor, or Happ for either Lee of Halladay.

Think about it. We get a guy who's statline this year is:
2.64 133.0 109 79 33 1.07 5.35 2.23

4.02 1820.2 1804 1082 553 1.29 5.35 2.73

His ERA is down because he's given up less hits and walks than normal, and this is in a pitcher's park. He has however pitched well in Anaheim, a hitter's park I believe. His ground out ratio is 0.75 this year and 0.70 for his career, which is pretty good I believe (70% of his outs are ground outs). With the infield defense we have, that's a big plus for our ballpark. He's 35 though.

The thing is, Washburn looks like a good #2 to add to the rotation, and he's pitched for Anaheim on their World Series Championship team. He's had mixed success, he was very good in the ALDS and ALCS of 2002, and the ALCS of 2005, but poor in the ALDS of 2004 and the WS.

Truthfully, I like landing Washburn and keeping Drabek, Happ, Taylor and Brown. Keeps the farm system relatively intact and we get a good #2 starter.

The only problem with including Jesus in the rotation is that his return to Earth is rumored to coincide with the end of the world. The Bible is kind of vague on the timing between his return and doomsday, though, so I guess it's possible he can be back for a few series in October, and then the apocalypse can start in November.

As long as it happens AFTER the parade, that's fine. My wife missed last year's parade, and she's still tweaked about it.

What happens when 2012 comes and Howard becomes the Yanks DH for $100 mil and Drabek makes his first MLB start?

When Myers went down, BL consensus was that a #2 starter was required. Lee fits that need in this rotation. Ends up being a sound tradeoff between emptying the farm system of top prospects and making this team better for the pennant race.

Do the trade. If the BoSox want Halladay, they'll have him and there's not a hell of a lot the Phils' FO can do about it.

I'm afraid to go to lunch

tommy boy, you must have serious reading comprehension problems.

I have barely commented on Lidge, much less advocate replacing him.

Again, either find the post where you allege I wrote it (good luck; never did), or stop making things up.

Since when is saying he was the bebeficiary of some good fortune last season the same as advocating replacing him?


If you think about it, a minor league coach could really screw with writers/bloggers at the deadline if he randomly gives all three off together on a given day right before the it. Genius, actually.

Everyone wants to win now, if we win now, we have leverage to keep our stars from walking.

TheGodfatherSJP: Good points, all.

Clearly, this is Tyson Brummett and Tuffy Gosewisch for Lee and V. Martinez.

"If you think about it, a minor league coach could really screw with writers/bloggers at the deadline if he randomly gives all three off together on a given day right before the it. Genius, actually. "

Good point - Paul.

It could be a plot by JW and his pals to drive up blog hits.

There's been a lot of conflicting reports on exactly what Boston's offers have been and how close the sides have been. The Sox are the team I saw standing in the way of Halladay to the Phils, and I wrote it on my site a few days ago. They turned down Victor Martinez for Buchholz, and I thought Buchholz in a deal for Doc might have been part of the reason why.

That said, if the Boston stuff is being overblown, and a Lee trade is close to being put in place, Ruben would be well-served to put one last call in to Ricciardi. If there's a deal in place that doesn't involve Drabek, Happ, or Brown for a player of Lee's caliber, and Ricciardi has nothing of substance on the table for Doc, Rube just handed Ricciardi's nuts to him.

RE: Dan:
What happens when 2012 comes and Howard becomes the Yanks DH for $100 mil and Drabek makes his first MLB start?

Posted by: Z. McCarthy | Wednesday, July 29, 2009 at 11:38 AM


I expect the main result of that is the Yanks will be saddled with a huge, unmovable contract for an aging slugger who doesn't walk, doens't hit for average, and who will give you less than 30 HRs for his millions.

Who knew the Iron Pigs were only 3 games under 500 at this point? That scrappy bunch of veterans is getting it done.

If Rube gets Lee and holds onto Taylor, Drabek, and Brown- I'd call that a big win for Amaro.

Again, could be dreaming, but if Rube were to get both, Lee and Halladay and only having to give up carrasco, marson, happ, drabek and brown to do it, wouldn't he get a statue built in this city?

We'd still have knapp, still have taylor, etc. And they would be set up to win two WS, so they could take all that money they make from winning or going to those WS and invest in either free agents in two years, or latino players to build up the farm

Again i could be dreaming, but it could be done.

Z. McCarthy- according to the Mayans we won't be here in 2012. So the Yankees pay roll could very literally be blown up.

Read a scouting report on Jesus. For those wondering he may not be able to hit one, but he can throw a curveball. it's a plus pitch as well.

However a majority of the Sally League games he has pitched in have been ended early due to his teammates getting drunk. Apparently there has been some issue with with wine coming out of the drinking fountains there.

Here's another way to look at it. If it's true, and the Red Sox get Halladay, playing devil's advocate, do you ever want to trade any prospects for lee? I mean if the red sox have a 1-2-3 of Halladay, lester, beckett. That's tough to beat...

Yo, newer thread

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