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Sunday, June 28, 2009


Key moment in the game: Manuel taking Moyer out after 5 before he had a chance to get into trouble in the 6th. Manuel doesn't do that often enough.

Happ and tomorrow's off day let Manuel have a quick hook with Moyer.

If we played at home like any other MLB home team, we'd be more giddy that we had a 3-3 IL road trip.

Bruntlett's gotta go. Cairo is a much better fielder and can't hit any worse.

Reposted from last thread:

To say Jayson Werth is hot is an understatement. In his last 12 PA, he's 6-6 with 2 HR, a double, 5 walks, and a sac fly.

I agree that taking Moyer out after 5 was a very wise move. We need to get the other four starters working deep enough into games for Charlie to feel comfortable taking Moyer out early enough to preserve his outings.

It would be great if Donald could get healthy and replace Bruntlett for the stretch run. Especially if Jimmy needs any more benchings. Brunt was brutal this weekend.

This is for the poster who said Bastardo was a better prospect than Hanson:

Tommy Hanson improved to 4-0 in the major leagues by shutting out the Red Sox for six innings while battling the flu on Sunday.

Hanson struck out only two batters, but he also walked just two hitters and allowed just a pair of singles. Hanson hasn't allowed a run in any of his last three outings.

Guess it's easier to pitch with some flu than with a bum shoulder.

last 1run win in 9IP - May 29 vs Nats

Its been awhile since they gutted one out, feels good.

EFF: Especially if you're actually good.

I agree that Bruntlett has been exposed. How about that Chan Ho Park? Turns out to be a key acquisition as a serviceable to reliable middle reliever.

Does anyone think they'll actually cut Bruntlett? It really seems like a no-brainer at this point, but with Donald out, who takes his place? Ozuna? Someone from outside the organization?

Seems to me that they'll stand pat until a replacement is staring them in the face.

ozark said, "Cairo is a much better fielder and can't hit any worse."

2008 OPS+

Mig Cairo: 75
Bruntlett: 55

Your right.

I agree that Bruntlett has been exposed but how about that Chan Ho Park? Turns out to be a key acquistion as a serviceable to reliable middle reliever.

BobbyD: though I doubt Manuel would have taken Moyer out after 5 if there wasn't a day off tomorrow or if Happ hadn't gone the distance yesterday.

It was bad enough that Manuel outdid himself with stubbornness by not starting Rollins all weekend - but to not even have him in for defense in the late innings amounts to self-sabotage. He took the whole 'mental rest' way too far and it's a damn good thing that Bruntlett's error didn't cost them the game today.

"If not for a few lucky breaks" no one would know who the hell you guys are

The Phils deserved to win this game and they did. Yes, they should have had more runs, but, then, so should have the Jays.

Maybe I'm just seeing things there aren't there, but does anybody know Howard's record with two outs and RISP (especially on third?) He seems to be very whiffy in those situations.

Sorry i meant with LESS than two outs.

Kind of a Met-centric world view, don'tcha think PS?

From ESPN:

The Philadelphia Phillies have scouted struggling New York Yankees starter Chien-Ming Wang and could be interested in adding the one-time ace if the Yankees make him available.

The Phils have been "all over" the Boston Red Sox Brad Penny, according the the Inquirer's Jim Salisbury, however the BoSox could keep the right-hander after an injury to Daisuke Matsuzaka and early struggles by John Smoltz in his debut against the Washington Nationals.

I'd take Wang just for the jersey

They actually posted a stat that said he was successful in getting the run in 60% of the time this season. I would have guessed it was much worse.

From your many tolerated posts here, I can see why Metsblog decided you were too stupid to exist over there. Hooray for them. And God Bless JW for having the patience to tolerate your stupidity.

So, it's "bad breaks" that have kept your great team out of the playoffs the last two seasons? Yeah, pull the other one.

I understand that trolls need feeding to exist. But you seem to be an energy sucking vortex who needs no negative reinforcement to jeep being a dope. That's admirable in termites, but you? Not so much.

Gotta love ESPN ... "could be interested ..."

Translation - "No factual evidence whatsoever to back up this claim".

The Worldwide Leader in B.S.

AK Smith:

Be easy man, you are really hurting my feelings. Don't get so worked up. If it's so ridiculous, just discard it and continue.

I'll ask you this, too, since G-Town Dave had no idea what the word "Troll" stood for, yet he used it so liberally. So, do you know the meaning of the word you use? Troll?

Does anyone think they'll actually cut Bruntlett?

NO. The only way we are spared the sight of this guy is a freak injury. Cholly seems to love this bum. They did'nt cut Taguchi last year, why would they cut Bruntlett this year?

Bruntlett hasn't been exposed; he's every bit as bad as he's always been. That said, it's worth noting Gnome has had more hits (1) & driven in more runs (1) in these past 4 games than J-Hole did in the previous 5, & their respective defensive miscues cancel out. If anything, the fact that a terrible Gnome has still been more productive than Rollins exposes Rollins.

How do we know the Phils would have lost the game if not for the "lucky breaks"?

Guy got picked off 2nd for 2nd out, next guy grounds out to short. Who knows, maybe without the pickoff a groundball to short is a game ending DP?

And who knows how the game plays out if Bruntlett doesn't boot the ball that should have been a double play. Different part of the lineup would have batted vs Lidge...

Atta way, Mikes77, root for a "freak injury" to your own player. Right on par with JC Romero and Chase Utley. You guys are the best. I like all of you equally.

PS complaining about the lucky breaks the Phils get before his game tonight vs the mighty Wang...


Would you be a bit surprised if Wang threw a 90-pitch, CG SO? Wait, wait, wait, let me guess...

"Not against the pathetic Mutts"

Hahaha. So clever you are.

Wang > Brad Mills, even now.

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Yeah, Phillies Suck. I am conversant with your world of trolling.

Still waiting for G-Town or AKSmith to get someone to tell them what "troll" means so they can tell me.

Wrong... Next guess.

That was unfortunate timing

Good follow-up comments everyone.

EF: It's no wonder they're so bitter. After all, if MLB games ended after 8 innings the Mets would have won the last two World Series. I mean, now that I'm better informed, I almost feel bad about having so much fun at the parade last October. You know, the Phillies being the only team in the history of professional baseball to get "lucky breaks" and all. Wait, gotta go ... Bill Buckner's calling ...

Yeah, I was wondering how the Bill Buckner thing wasn't a lucky break.

Well, PS, I suppose I have to break out the big guns. "Trolling for suckers."

But, you see, we are not the suckers here. I responded to you today and never will again. But you must live life as a Mutt fan. I win. You lose. Sad for you.

Not sure, but it seemed that So Taguchi took a lot more bashing last year on this site than Bruntlett is getting this year.

Taguchi batted close to .200 most of the year and finished at .220. Bruntlett will have to channel the ghost of Ted Williams to get to .220 this year.

I mentioned this in the previous thread, but it's worth noting again that Moyer passed Bob Gibson on the all-time MLB pitching wins list today. No doubt this hasn't been Jamie's finest season thus far, but he has had one helluva career.

The fact that Jamie has passed Bob Gibson in anything says a lot about wins being a much overrated measure of pitching.

However, with the talent he has, what he has accomplished is nothing short of miraculous.

Haha, yea, AK.

I guess you only live as a Phils fans during wins, not 10,000 + losses.

Hahaha, you called the Mets, the "Mutts"!! Oh Man!! That's why I come here, for all the clever commenting.

Anyway for 99 % of you who use the word Troll and have no idea what it means, I'll educate you like I do with Phillies news (JW too busy being the best sportswriter in Philly).

Troll is an acronym (do I have to define that, too) which means "They Run One Loss Later". It means that people who talk trash and go away when their team loses.

Well, since my team has done more losing the last two years (but less the last three years, beside the point) than your team, and I still come providing you irreplaceable commentary, I wouldn't really qualify.

I assume you will still use that ugly, hateful word to describe me, though. I wouldn't expect anything less from the City of the F-Bomb.

"The fact that Jamie has passed Bob Gibson in anything says a lot about wins being a much overrated measure of pitching."


Anyway, gotta go.

I wish you guys continued unbelievable luck. If anyone deserves it, it's you guys. That's for sure.


I love how you guys stand by Utley for dropping the F-Bomb at the parade, yet you look down on cursing on this blog. On a computer screen.

The most brave of you warriors may drop an "A$$" from time to time, but you stand up for Utley.

A banged up Phils team went 3-3 this road trip and generally won the pitching matchups they should have.

Basically the only game they didn't really take care of business was on Friday night against a shaky Sonnastine but other wise they managed to hold serve and even gain a bit of ground this weekend.

Am I a sore loser? Possibly. But it's hard to expect someone from the city of winners to handle losing well.

Just as it is equally tough to expect people from the city of losers (ahem, Philly) to handle winning well.

PS - you're a joke. Why act so smug and superior when you're no more capable of real objectivity than the Phils fans you mock? If you were honest, you'd understand that there's so little difference between the mentality of Philadelphia and New York fans that any comment you make to the detriment of one is pretty much the same comment in detriment to your own allegiance.

JW - I wouldn't mind seeing a few tweaks too. Bako has now appeared in a whopping 2 games in over 3 weeks. He is stealing a paycheck everyday he is on the roster.

Now that interleague play is done, I wouldn't mind seeing the Phils call up another reliever (Escalona) to take Bako's spotuntil Eyre comes off the DL in the next week or so.

As for Bruntlett, I guess they could call up Cairo in place of him but that seems like a marignal upgrade at best. Mayberry seems like an "ok" option for the time-being as the primary right-handed pinch hit option.

PS: Phillies were better than the Mets in 2007 2008 and have been so far in 2009, and will likely contine to be. Go cry to fellow Met fans instead of complain to Phillie fans.

MG: i was thinking the same thing, the pitiful feeling from the homestand hungover into the roadtrip where in most cases, a 3-3 roadtrip to two +.500 teams is plenty acceptable. In other words, i'll take it.

Unsung hero of the day is Chan Ho Park. He's quietly been the best pitcher the Phillies have had out of the bullpen in the last 2-3 weeks. He is asked to come in and pitch one or two innings, and he just sits batters down.

He retired all 6 hitters he faced today and plugged the gap in a big spot. Manuel didn't have confidence in Moyer to come out in the 6th and maintain the lead, so they went to Chan Ho and he delivered.

PS - You say "city of the f-bomb" like its a bad thing...

RSB: Amen.

"Bako has now appeared in a whopping 2 games in over 3 weeks. He is stealing a paycheck everyday he is on the roster."

Pretty sad, isn't it? He is this year's TJ Bohn (although I remember that stiff at least doing some pinch-running).

When Ibanez comes back, DFA Bako. He isn't needed (and was never needed). Now with Marson in a groove with the stick at LV, he is your next catcher in line, should either Chooch or Coste go down.

When Eyre comes back, send Taschner to LV. Its obvious he is just out there, in case Cholly has run out of pitchers or its a 10-1 game. He has no role and should go back to LV and get some work.

Carrasco comes up to take Bastardo's spot. AB either goes on the DL or he goes back to LV, to work on finding a 2nd pitch.

I'd stay with the rest of the roster as is (keep RFD Jr and Walker) and play to the All-Star break with that group.

Funny thing is that I don't know what this bullpen would have done if Park had gone on the DL.

Yeah Durbin can go more than 1-inning if needed but do you really want to see Walker or Taschner as your long-guys out of the pen until the ASB?

The book on Mayberry will be out soon, if it isn't already. They'll be a lot more looking awful against semi decent lefty relievers (3 swings, 3 misses) than there will be home runs off the likes of David Price. He's still a nice player down the road, and certainly the best option we've got (short of calling up Taylor, which would clearly be an immediate upgrade but a bad decision with regard to his development). If Donald can get healthy and start hitting for a few weeks maybe we could see him even a little before sept. I have one hundred percent certainty that Bruntlett will be on the postseason roster (assuming we'd be so lucky), perhaps even as the primary pinch hitter. I've given up on his release for this year, but if they resign him again for next year, well, let's not even cross that bridge til we have to.

By the way, Wang is a nice outside the box idea in theory (and more for the future then for this season - which more or less defeats the purpose), but his salary isn't that high, it''s the yankees and he's still got huge upside for them. No way he comes cheap and no sure thing that he's even better than Bastardo for the rest of this year, though clearly going forward he has a ton more value. Every day I wake up dreading to see the following headlines "Bannister/Doug Davis/ or Washburn for Taylor, Happ, and Donald",

Think how lucky the Mets were in 2006 when they drew the lowly 83 win Cards in the NLCS, a team that went 49-59 after June. No wonder they cruised to the WS that year.

By the way, PS, your team has done more losing than our team since they both have been in existence.

And more in the 21st century, if you want to arbitrarily start counting at a later point, even with that fluke 2006 season of yours.

My Roster Changes: Bako, down. Escalona, up.

Bako doesn't play at all, so he's entirely worthless. He must go.

When Eyre comes back Trashner should be released, & Escalona should stay. Barring Rube suddenly pulling a pitcher out of his ass, the Phils may well have to try Carrasco as a starter (esp. if Bastardo will be out for an extended period of time).

Mayberry hasn't played nearly well enough to warrant staying up solely to PH. I agree w/ those who think he'd benefit from more playing time in the Minors, & when Ibañez returns I think RFD should go back down.

So far as Bruntlett goes, I don't think the club can afford to have their only SS be J-Roll. As such, unless & until the Phils sign a decent RH utility player, I don't see him going anywhere. And keep in mind, he was still an (ever-so-slight) upgrade over Jimmy, at least for these past 4 games.

In the meantime I really, really wish Charlie would give Dobbs more playing time, in particular letting him PH against LH pitching once in awhile. He certainly can't be any worse than Gnome.

mikes: Another difference between Taguchi & Bruntlett is that Taguchi had been an extremely competent backup outfielder until last year. Hence, it was not totally unreasonable to keep thinking that eventually he would start hitting. Bruntlett, on the other hand, is a career .230 hitter & coming off a season in which he hit .217. There is absolutely 0 percent chance that he's suddenly going to turn into a decent player.

EF: "New York - City of Winners™"*

* Term "City of Winners™" does not apply to the Mets. No such association between Winning & the Mets is either expressed or implied.

Cholly must really have wanted this game. He managed this game like he usually manages in September. Taking Jaime Moyer out, while leading after the 5th inning, with only 82 pitches, has not been his m.o. early in the season.
Riding Chan Ho Park for 2 innings instead of bringing in Chad Durbin in the 6th inning of a tight game might be a turning point in his bullpen strategy. If J.C. can get his head on straight or Bastardo is put where he belongs (in the back end of the bullpen), the Phillies might have a decent Bullpen heading into the stretch.

2009 Miguel Cairo, BTW, still wouldn't be an upgrade over 2009 Eric Bruntlett. Cairo was putting up a staggering -38 OPS+ before he left the club, which is the worst on the entire team, including all pitchers except for Happ and Bastardo.

My roster changes:

DFA'd: Jack Taschner, Eric Bruntlett

Called up: Carlos Carrasco, Miguel Cairo

DFA'd(when Condrey comes off the DL): Walker

DFA'd or DL'd(when Eyre comes back from DL): Bastardo

That was a hilarious definition for Troll. It's like the guys doesn't realize that trolls existed long before the era of the sports blog. Trolls got their name because they "troll" message boards looking to stir up controversy just for the sake of controversy. This wacky acronym for troll that's been suggested is revisionist, at best, and idiotic, at worst.

I vote for idiotic.

I did a google for "They Run One Loss Later" and got two (2) hits.

A metsblog comment from October 2008 (after we lucked our way to a second straight division championship) and a beerleaguer comment from earlier today from PS.

Guess by typing this up I'll up the google hits by 33 percent.

Two games of going out all day and ignoring the team and two wins...I may never watch another game.

So much for moving Daniel Murphy to 1st Base where "he can't hurt you" defensively.

Heh heh ... :-)

Pigs should get to .500 tonight,ahead 6-1.

I don't recall seeing "Failed fielder's choice" in a play-by-play before...

Great play by Castillo ... followed by another fielding blunder by Murphy.

Awesome! :-)

Pigs have been playing some good ball lately largely in part to timely starting pitching and some big hacks by Andy Tracey.

Keep in mind that Daniel Murphy was supposed to be the every day LFer for the Mets, the preseason pick to win it all, and he was even worse as a LFer.

They'll tell us it's all the injuries' fault, but plenty of their recent losses are due to the guys they planned to depend on since day 1 (like Castillo, Santana, Feliciano, KRod) and lots of their recent wins are due to the replacements (Evans and especially Nieve).

EF: That they're so quick to use injuries as an excuse for losing says a lot about Mets fans & the expectations they have for their team.

Who's that trip-trappin' over my bridge?

One thing that is certain is that both Manuel and Minaya are almost certainties to both be in place again starting the 2010 season. Hard to believe the Mets will scapegoat Manuel after basically just 1 full-time season or fire Minaya after he just signed a 3-year extension last Oct.

G-Town Dave - You beat me to the punch about Googling "They Run One Loss Later." I didn't think the term troll had a basis in sports message boards, and it pleased me to see that PS was wrong in his arrogant definition of "troll."

"Mayberry hasn't played nearly well enough to warrant staying up solely to PH. I agree w/ those who think he'd benefit from more playing time in the Minors, & when Ibañez returns I think RFD should go back down."

100% completely disagree. He has 1 bad weekend series, and he now needs to go back down and face AAA pitching again?

He needs to stay on this roster the rest of the year. Period.

Rookies are going to have their ups and downs. He has already helped this team and will continue to do so. He can't help it, playing for the Pigs. He is 26 years old. He doesn't need anymore playing time in the minors. Happ was in the same situation last year. He was wasting his time down there and RFD would be too; when there are obvious needs for him and his skill-set with the big club RIGHT NOW.

This team DESPERATELY needs a 4th OF (Dobbs is a infielder who occasionally plays OF and Stairs is a DH who occasionally plays OF) and a LEGIT threat off the bench from the right side. He provides both. He should have stayed the last time they foolishly sent him down. They can't make the same mistake again.

And, you don't need to "DFA" Taschner. He has minor league options. He is the one, who could use some work in the minors right now. Its obvious Cholly has no use for him and no trust in him. Send him back and if/when Romero and Eyre go down again, maybe he pitches well enough to return.

what happened to the honored Beerleaguer policy of NOT FEEDING THE TROLLS?

can we please just stop acknowledging PS? he hasn't said anything in days that deserves our attention. until such time as he initiates a rational baseball discussion, STOP RESPONDING TO HIS PROVOCATIONS.

EFF: I thought you were a stat guy. Your post was a 50% increase, DH was 33%.

ESPN radio just called Murphy a "mini-disaster" at both positions.

BTW, Taylor is having another one of his ho-hum nights tonight...

3 for 5. Another HR. A 2B. 4 RBI's.

Stutes pitches well and is in line for the win. Reading up 8-2 late.

Pigs win 6-1. Lopez with 7 strong innings. Pigs get outhit 12-4, but win game 6-1. Pigs get to .500 for the first time in history.

We should definitely trade Taylor...its clear now that he simply doesn't have what it takes.

I mean the bum didn't even get on base in two of his at bats.



Guess we get to see how long these things take to show up on google though.

Taylor just seems to keep hitting. I can't remember him going into a slump more than a couple of games at any point in the last year or so.

Does anyone have a logical comp for Taylor? A big OF with .300+ AVG potential, only decent walk/OBP skills, not many Ks, and at least average power, probably in the 25 HR range. Along with solid defense. Magglio? Garrett Anderson in his prime?

Dave Winfield? Though when Winfield was 23, he was already in his 3rd MLB season.

denny - Phils don't need a 4th OF with Mr. Versatility himself Eric Bruntlett on the roster. Natural OFs are overrated anyway.

NEPP - you beat me to it. Winfield was 6'6", only hit 30+ HR's three times, was more a mid 20's HR hitter .... although playing today, that probably translates to 30+ given pitching and ball parks.

I was thinking somewhere between Winfield and Sarge Mathews ....

Winfield was one of the few players that never played minor-league ball. Don't see that very often anymore.

LOL, yeah, if Winfield were to play today he'd likely be a 1st ballot HOF instead of a 1st ballot HOF. He'd have likely gotten to 500 HRs though.

NEPP - I hope we get to see what Taylor can do for the Phils and not some other team ... it just seems like if we are going to get a SP for the stretch run this year, Taylor is the guy most likely to be the trade chip. I hope I'm wrong.

I think we'd regret a trade of Taylor...ala Sandberg. He's simply gone nuts since the beginning of last year. His offensive stats are ridiculous and he's supposedly a pretty good RF too. (I've never seen him in person so I don't know).

It's funny. I was about to dismiss the Winfield comp and ask for an actual realistic one, but then I looked at Winfield's numbers and they were basically what I described. Honestly, looking at Winfield's raw offensive stats, I'm not all that impressed and wouldn't think first-ballot HOFer. But I guess you have to consider the low offensive era of the 80s and his defensive value as well.

Sounds like the organization is higher on Brown .... but I'd like to see both of them get their shot(s) when it's time to bid Werth and Ibanez goodbye. If we could get a stud 3B in the pipeline that would set us up nicely when Howard walks at the end of this 3-year deal and Chase moves over to 1B .... which is what I see happening.

Funny how it looks like we'll need a SS a lot earlier than any of us imagined 2 years ago.

Jack, on Winfield, it wasn't just his offense. He was a phenomenal defender with a spectacular arm in RF for years and years. He was an amazing athlete. Easily a 1st ballot HOF. Plus, 500 2Bs, 450+ HR, 200+ SB, 3100+ hits, 1800+ RBI. Not too shabby beyond his OBP numbers which were a bit less impressive for his career.

Lidge got billions of lucky breaks last year. I was waiting all season for his luck to run out. Thank goodness it did not and glad to see him back in lucky-break form (knock on wood).

Re: The City of Brotherly F-Bombs

Forget the F-bomb, I'd be more worried about real bombs. Remember Wilson Goode and MOVE?


Jack: Anderson never had the OB skills that Taylor has and Magglio has more power. How about a righty Bobby Abreu? You got the speed, the OB, the AVG and the good, not great, power. Of course he's bigger than Abreu (6-6, 250) so we need to find a big righty with Abreu-like offense to have an ideal comp.

Jack: Exactly right on Winfield. Those numbers aren't all that impressive by today's standards, but they were superior for his era. I don't think it's a stretch to say Taylor could achieve Winfield's raw numbers (although he's far from a reasonable comp, if you adjust for post-steroid offense.)

Clout: I don't think Taylor has nearly the OBP skills of Abreu. He has a .400 OBP right now, but mostly because he is hitting .340. My point was to try and find a guy who might reasonably hit .310/.370/.530 or so, with 25-30 HRs and good defense/speed. Assuming we're agreed that that's Taylor's upside.

FWIW, and I wrote out those numbers above before I checked this, but Magglio's career numbers are .311/.370/.513, with a peak line usually around .315/.380/.540 and around 30 HRs. So I think the Magglio comp, with maybe a little less power, but better defense, works well. Also, I didn't realize this, but in 2001 Magglio actually stole 25 bases. So he had some speed too.

Off topic, about Josh know one the Phillies minor leaguers the A's got in exchange for Blanton? Anyway, it's being reported that Outman (who was put on the 60 day DL yesterday) may require Tommy John surgery...which means he's gone for 12 -18 months.

Nothing good is happening with the A's organization, btw...except for Adam Kennedy.

What a choke. are you guys listening to this?

KRod walked Rivera with the bases loaded to force in a run and make it 4-2 Yanks. No dancing and pointing to the sky tonight jacka$$.

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