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Wednesday, June 17, 2009


I'm leery of this pitching staff. Get Bedard.

"Why do they call it Ovaltine? I mean, the cup is round, the jar is round...they should call it Roundtine."

I'm not taking you to Mendy's, Bania

What about Chacin down with the Iron Pigs? He once won 16 games; if he is over his alcohol problem, maybe he should be given a shot with the big club. Also, Kendrick must have taken out his anger against being demoted by pitching a shutout today. That would be nice if he was so aggressive all the time. w

KK is the man, he needs to be given starts, not this BS where they call 1 guy up and option him the next day. I'm surprised Walker didn't get sent back down yet.

Well, I've already offered my thoughts on the Bedard trade market in a previous thread, but for those who didn't read it, here it is...

--- had an article yesterday on the Type A and Type B free agent projections for 2010. Noticeably absent from the list was Erik Bedard, and here's what MLBTR had to say as to why:

Wondering about Erik Bedard? He has 69.259 of 100 points, while the lowest Type A American League starter has a 74.815 score. He's in the middle of the AL Type B starting pitchers at the moment. But if Bedard is traded to an NL club, he'll be ranked with that league's starters.

This got me to thinking of the potential trade consequences of this revelation. An NL club would be in a better position to offer Seattle more value for Bedard knowing he has more potential to be Type A in the NL, and thus they will receive draft pick compensation if the club offers arbitration and he does not resign. An AL club might not see the value in trading prospects for Bedard when they cannot be replaced via compensation.

This might limit the trade market to NL teams only. Looking around at this point at NL clubs interested in pitching, you would have to think it would be only the Phillies, Mets, and Cubs potentially at this point, and out of those three, I think the Phillies are in the best position in terms of depth in prospects to get something done.

Also, if the Phillies could put some distance on the Mets in the coming weeks before the All-Star Break and really drive them to the brink, you could eliminate a player from the market and help yourself get Bedard cheaper.

For such a minor revelation that MLBTR almost mentioned in passing, that Bedard/compensation thing might have drastic effects on the trade market for him.


I think Bedard presents the most feasible option for the Phillies. For every other option presented, there are significant issues on the "trading end" preventing the trade from ever getting out of the "wouldn't it be nice if..." stage.

Halladay: There is simply no way that J.P. Ricciardi trades him even if he is given the entire farm plus MLB-ready talent in return. It would require permission from the PM of Canada to pull off. Just simply not happening. Talk of the Phillies trading for Halladay is typical pipe-dream talk radio fodder.

Oswalt: Drayton McClane is on-record multiple times over multiple seasons as to his opinions on keeping Oswalt. Now, you could say he is just posturing, but he's been literally saying the same thing for years, so unless he's extremely good at posturing, you have to think there's some merit of truth to what he's said.

Peavy - The no-trade, his desire to be on the west coast, and NOW, his injury which will keep him out until after the all-star break. The Padres must be killing themselves for not moving him in the offseason.

Lee - There might be a chance he moves, certainly more than the options above. But I think they're going to have to be really blown away.

Webb - The injury might really limit team's interest in him, even if the D'Backs want to move him.

Duke - After the backlash on the McClouth trade, do they risk their fans showing up outside the park with pitchforks and flaming sticks if they make another deal?

So, arguments of "Bedard is a headcase" aside, he might be who you end up with simply because the market is set up that way. Also, given the compensation you would likely get for offering him arbitration, there is an upside of draft value for giving away some farm depth to get him. Also, how much would the motivating factor of pitching in a pennant race in his contract year counteract his "headcase"-ness?

Hydrant: Excellent post. Marquis is another name who has been mentioned, but I don't see him going anywhere now that the Rockies are only 3.5 games out of the WC. For the same reason, I'm actually a little dubious that the Mariners would even trade Bedard. If they do trade him, I'd be quite shocked if he isn't the best starting pitcher to change hands at the deadline.

hydrant: I can not fathom how Erik Bedard is a Type B while Vicente Padilla is a Type A, at least so far. How the hell do they come up with that stuff?


Padilla 2008: 14-8, 4.74
Padilla 2009: 5-3, 4.82

Bedard 2008: 6-4, 3.67
Bedard 2009: 5-2, 2.47

The Elias Ratings, which dictate Type A and Type B free agents, uses an average of a player's past 2 seasons. For starting pitchers, IP, wins and ERA are heavily weighted. Bedard has the best ERA, but doesn't come close in wins and IP. That's why Padilla ranks higher.

What could be so weird about Bedard that EVERYONE thinks he's a clubhouse issue? I mean, guys have different personalities across the game. I'm sure Victorino rubs people the wrong way. So could a guy like Myers I'm sure. And yet Bedard I consistently hear things about how no one wants to take him.

Something has to be up with him. That means more than just he's got a boorish personality or doesn't party with his teammates, or keeps to himself. I mean, all teams have guys like that. Something different, and pretty serious, has to be going on with Bedard for him to be unanimously panned.

This conversation should start and end with Jason Marquis.

To those who think KK is the answer to the Phils' pitching problem:

Sorry, his stuff just doesn't play at the ML level. He just doesn't miss enough bats and likely never will, unless he comes up with a plus breaking ball and changeup.

Jack: I'm with you. That the Phils have a couple of Seattle insiders and are THAT wary of Bedard really says something... especially considering the sorry state of our pitching at the moment.

Maybe he kills puppies.

old grandad: Prepare for a lecture from Clout on how you can be successful with miniscule strikeout numbers such as KKs, and then have him back up his claim with a whopping total of 1 pitcher who is similar to KK, Paul Byrd (and who actually is a higher strikeout pitcher).

I'm with old grandad on the KK issue. The joke trade to Japan from last year, may now be KK's best future move.

On Bedard, I'm not excited about him, however, my thoughts on bad attitude is that the Phillies overall attitude is so good, that a bad attitude from a single bad egg will be overwhelmed by the group think of the Phillies. Now, saying that, I think you can only add bad eggs occassionally and one at a time.

Jack: KK was successful for a season and half with miniscule strikeout numbers. So to you and the others who say this can't possibly happen, it's sort of a one-sided debate.

As for old grandad's point that KK needs another pitch if he's to remain a starter, I absolutely agree and have been saying that for two years on this board. His lack of a decent slider to throw to lefties has caused him to have extreme splits. Right now, he's a ROOGY swingman as far as I'm concerned.

here's the thing i'm not keen on re: bedard - he's only pitched more than 7 innings twice this year. most of his starts are pedestrian - 5ip / 2 er, 6.1ip / 1 er... nothing we're not getting already.

Yes, 6.1ip / 1 ER is pedestrian. We wouldn't want that on our club.

and 8.9K/9 is bad. I'd want to see Howard get some defensive opportunities.

Well... pedestrian would be a GOOD thing for our staff right now!

Standard lineup tonight vs. a RHP with the three lefties bunched together in the middle. Coste behind the plate instead of Chooch.

Tonight's Phils Lineup (via Zolecki on Twitter): Rollins SS, Victorino CF, Utley 2B, Howard 1B, Ibañez LF, Werth RF, Feliz 3B, Coste C, Moyer P.

Oh boy, here we go.
Moyer's starts are stressful to watch. Every pitch is like taking another step on a tight rope. I feel exhausted by the end of the game.

At this point with what's available and what it will cost, if a pitcher isn't acquired from free agency or promoted from our farm, we're going to get screwed.

I'd love to see them stick with Happ and Bastardo, but pick up Glavine and go to a six man rotation with Hamels alone pitching every five days. It will never, ever happen, but it's a better option than giving up the farm for a disaster like Bedard. Incidentally, I don't think Bedard will happen either. The front office seems to place a premium on a harmonious clubhouse and will eat salary if necessary to rid themselves of a headcase. I don't see them actively searching to add one.

Speaking of headcases, is there any chance Myers returns by the end of the season?

Sweet start. Good news is that this team seems like to like playing from behind.

Yo, new thread

I think what CJ said about our Seattle insiders is dead on. If the FO was going to make a move on Bedard, I think they'd have done it by now. I'm just as concerned about our 4 and 5 hitters vs. LH pitching.
Big Brown used to have success against southpaws by going to the ooposite field but, since last year, he's trying to pull everything. You don't open up as wide as he does for any other reason. Does anyone here remember the last time he hit one out to left? And our MVP candidate has had only 4 hits in his last 19 AB's with 9 punchouts. The batting order needs a total rethinking, especially with regard to where JRoll and Howard should hit against lefties.

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