Part of

« Blue Jays hand Phillies another home series loss | Main | Game chat: The first of maybe many without Raul »

Thursday, June 18, 2009


Who wants to take this bet:

D Wright ends up with more HRs this year than Raul.

Explains the dip in production.

King Myno: "Explains the dip in production"

Um, then what explains the actual production?

Is Werth a better RF or a LF? Wouldn't you want his arm in Right? Does Mayberry have a better arm?

Well, in the spirit of BL, there go the playoffs.

PS: I'll take that, unless you have some sort of inside info that they're moving up the fences at Shiti Field.

Yes, I actually feel better knowing that this is likely what has led to the production dip.

Mayberry needs to play LF. Those games in NY were a little too adventurous for my liking with Werth in left.

MPN: I agree on both counts.

TK: No, they'll continue to play the game of baseball at Citi Field, and not Arena Baseball.

But I'll just trust that the 100 + plus years of trends that occurred before the steroid era will continue to hold true after it. That is, of course, assuming Ibanez isn't on anything.

This isn't the end of the world. Hopefully he can come back strong and healthly.

Why is suppressing HRs any more the game of baseball than increasing HRs?

theGreenebros: Yeah, but you are doing it wrong. It is: season=over.

Headline Of The Day:

Congress Will Probe Sosa (

PS: Yeah, well what about Johan's drop in production? Seems odd that he's dropped off since testing increased, huh? Or maybe he's just getting older "That is, of course, assuming Ibanez isn't on anything."

What's a matter kid, did the Mets fans take your sister hostage or something if you didn't start acting like a jackass here?

God I hope Mayberry becomes Howard to Raul's Thome.

Wow. Definitely not feeling too bad for the Muts injuries now: Ibanez has carried this team, there's really no bigger loss than him. Hope he's only out for a short time.

Also, here's Mayberry's shot to really prove himself. But given that he's only hitting .257 in Lehigh, I'm a touch skeptical.

Don't forget David Wright...he strikes out like a power hitter, but his power numbers have all but in this new era of stricter testing.

Another blown opportunity by Reuben..Taylor is the choice.. .330 avg with 10 dingers and a beast of an arm. time to start looking @ the next great Phil..Hopefully Mayberry is only a stop gap....

Tough news to wake up to -- makes last year's run seem so much luckier, eh? Not that they didn't deserve it, but they avoid so much injury trouble like this.

I wonder, though -- do you think Utley's struggles last year have anything to do with this DL trip, as well as Lidge's?

Essentially, I wonder if the new approach is to sit guys for 2 weeks rather than letting them fight through the pain. I'll be anxious to hear if Raul instigated this, or was it another situation out of the player's hands.

Hey PS, if you've got an explanation for the Mutts' rash of injuries this year that isn't "juicers breaking down," I'd like to hear it. I like fiction.

Obviously sustitute Santana for Ibanez in my last post.

Today's lineup:

Rollins SS, Victorino CF, Utley 2B, Howard 1B, Werth LF, Feliz 3B, Mayberry RF, Ruiz C, Blanton P.

EastFallowfield - Thank you for making that point. That's always bothered me - extreme hitter's parks are sarcastically called bandboxes and other such derogatory terms, while extreme pitcher's parks are somehow considered more respectful to the game, or some nonsense.

In reality, an extreme pitcher's park is no more pure to "the game of baseball" than an extreme hitter's park, contrary to what the media tells us.

Also, for what it's worth, both CBP and Bailout Field are playing pretty close to neutral so far this year, according to park factors.

Maybe Raul, at 37, should have had a day or two off.

Good job by the Phils for not having a real 4th outfielder.

MPN: Just don't get too worked up so you can't type correctly, ok?

But for now, I will "sustitute" Santana for Ibanez in your post.

I never said Ibanez is using. I don't think he is at all. I'm just saying that old players break down and play worse than they did when they were younger, and I would expect that to happen with Ibanez.

Don't get all flustered guys. A lot of anger going on here.

We can play this back and forth juicing game all day, guys. Heck just look at Rollins' HR numbers by season. But I would rather not, because it's kind of stupid.

PS - the actual production stems from Raul being a really good baseball player, ass.

I agree about Mayberry in LF, too - why mix things up unnecessarily?

PS: No, you did the most pusillanimous thing of all, you said "assuming Ibanez isn't on anything" which allows you to say that you didn't accuse him, while allowing for the possibility that he is dirty. As J-Roll would say: can't be no punk.

King Myno: I agree Ibanez is a good baseball player.

But come on dude, just look at his numbers by season. I know you got your cry face on behind your screen and you're just going to rebel and say stupid things, because you're angry, but try and make some sense, and keep profanity out of this.

Someone didn't get their extra Cheez Whiz on their Philly this morning, huh?

MPN: I just threw that in there as a barb to you guys. Shouldn't have done it.
I don't think he is juicing. I don't think anyone is juicing, naive or not. I just want to watch baseball.

Hard to take steroid complaints seriously from a fan base that still trots out Mike Piazza every time they have a ceremony...


White American > Cheese Whiz on steak sandwiches.

Rollins Since Returning To Leadoff:

4-33 .121/.143/.242/.385 0 BB 2 GIDP

Smooth move, Charlie ... :-S

G-Town: I loved Rollins hitting sixth for you guys. It takes all the pressure off of him and makes the bottom of the order formidable.

Why Charlie moved him back is beyond me.

PS: You really prefer white cheese to cheese wiz?


Yea, didn't grow up in the northeast so the Cheese Whiz phenomenon kind of passed me over. I've tried it and its good, but I was just brought up on the white American.

And if that is some kind of joke, TK, you're a 4-year-old.

I feel bad posting links, but this article about Raul by Joe Posnanski is really good. Joe covered Raul when he was on the Royals and he answers all the questions about the roid allegations (for me at least).

David Wright-speculation

J.C. Romero-guilty

Quick fantasy question: I'm thin in OF...just picked up Swisher last night. Is Mayberry a better short term option?

Better now than September.

I hope Taylor gets promoted to LV to replace Mayberry. At age 23 what more does he need to prove at AA? Look at these numbers:

.335 AVG .402 OBP .567 SLG 10 HR 42 RBI 10 steals .407 w/RISP

With Brown, Donald and Marson out, Taylor becomes their primary trade chip. Maybe Amaro doesn't want to risk a rough transition...

Danny Knobler on CBSSports writes that the Phillies might have to settle for a reliever instead of a starter, since no top starters are available and Paul Maholm, Zach Duke, and Jason Marquis "don't excite" them.

If true, I really don't get this. Does having Bastardo and Jamie Moyer in their rotation "excite" them? Marquis and Duke are having excellent years, and Maholm is a very promising young pitcher, under contract for several years, who is coming off a good season. Once we get all our guys back, our bullpen will already be an area of strength. I just don't see how any upgrade is going to significantly improve the team. The upgrade from Moyer/Bastardo to a guy like Duke or Maholm would be far greater than the upgrade of, say, Clay Condrey to whatever reliever we might find in the trade market.

But, of course, I take these articles with a substantial grain of salt. I do think the Phillies realize they need to find a starting pitcher, even if it isn't the ace that they hoped to find.

It was a joke PS. I thought you read beerleaguer enough to appreciate it. Guess not. Why so serious?

Whoever deemed PS as an intelligent, respectful Mets fan... forgets that this guy started out as a troll... continued to be a troll... and except for a reasonable couple of posts has always been a troll... despite changing his moniker. Change your moniker back so we know the troll you are.

Mets fans are really something else- for the past two years, we've been hearing how the Phils didn't 'win' the division, the Mets 'lost it.' Now, already in June, we're getting the preliminary explanation as to why they're going to lose this year: they're 'decimated' by injuries.

Baseball fans would be hard-pressed to find a more dominating baseball team than the 2007-2009 Mets who deserve to be three-time WS and NL East Champs, yet have actually won jack sh!t. What an interesting phenomenon.

It sure is nice to have the AAA and AA teams so close to call up a Mayberry or shuttle pitchers back and forth while playing bullpen and starter roulette. When I was a kid, I believe the Phils AAA team was in Eugene, Oregon! The relief would come by stagecoach.

Raaauuulll... get better quickly!

mikes: No one can win dumbest comment of the day as long as you are posting here. Many people complained about an abundance of lefties in the Phillies line-up when they signed Ibanez. For the next 15 days you'll get to see what the line-up looks like with slightly more balance as far as right/left goes. Not production.

A third grader would've understood that.

Also saw that Shawn Chacon signed a minor league deal with the A's. Too bad. He would have been a perfect fit on the Phillies. Not because he can pitch, but because he punched out Ed Wade. The Phillies should sign him just to have a ceremony retiring his uniform number.

Be interesting to note when the decision was made to be able to have Mayberry here and ready to play an afternoon game. Pigs are in Durham.

Amaro thinks Ibanez could be out longer than 15 days.

Lauber reports it could be longer than 15 days, according to Amaro.

Funny you bring up Chacon, BAP, because I was thinking of him this morning, about taking a flier on the guy.

b_a_p: Amen! At the very least we should get a write-in campaign going for him to be added to the Phillies Wall of Fame in 2010.

Season = Over

Question: Why Werth in LF? Can Mayberry play LF?

At this point I think taking a flier on Pedro Martinez would not be a bad move. He will have had plenty of time to rest so he shouldn't break down towards the end of the year and he can still probably miss some bats.

The only real downside to him is I don't know if he has a chance of giving you 7 innings everytime out, and right now they need an innings guy.

Pedro doesn't have a chance of giving us 3 innings everytime out, he's entirely washed up. The Phils need to make a move for a real starter, hopefully Rube has the balls.

HH - I am assuming that they have more confidence in moving Werth to LF than Mayberry. The kid has enough pressure on him already, why add more by changing his position?

TK: I think Swisher, the known quantity, is the better option right now. We only have a few plate appearances to go on for Mayberry so far.

CY: I thought I read somewhere that he had been playing LF with the IP. w/e I just hope we don't see Werth making it into an adventure like he did last time.

HH - If he was playing LF for the IP then the move does not make any sense. Unless he was butchering LF down there.

TK - Keep Swish

Anyone think they'll get the game in?

Daily News guy tweets the tarp is off the field and the forecast looks like the game will be played.

Is that good news or bad?

i was hoping the remainder of the homestand was rained out, so im saying bad news.

I haven't gotten a chance to see Mayberry play. My assumption is that, if they're putting him in right, they think he has a stronger/better arm than Werth. Anyone know?

Chan Ho Complaining about his role.....

"The No. 1 thing for me," he said Wednesday, "is I want to be a starter."

Park, a 35-year-old right-hander, had his chance, albeit it wasn't long enough for his liking. He won the fifth-starter job, fair and square, during spring training, then went 1-1 with a 7.29 ERA in seven starts.

His last start -- a five-run, 1 1/3-inning drubbing May 17 in Washington -- gave Manuel and Dubee the ideal opening to put him in the bullpen, where they always thought he belonged.

And in the bullpen, Park has thrived.

He is still learning the ropes, specifically training his arm to bounce back in only a few days from a two- or three-inning outing.

But in eight relief appearances (14 innings), he's 2-0 with a 3.21 ERA.

"I think this is his role," Manuel said. "I think he's tailor-made for this role."

In 2006, Manuel had the same opinion about right-hander Ryan Franklin, signed as a free agent after being a starter with Seattle. Franklin never truly embraced his relief role with the Phillies and was traded late in the season. Now the Cardinals' closer, he has a 2.99 ERA and 33 saves over the past three seasons.

"Sooner or later, a guy's got to accept where he belongs, or what the team wants him for," Manuel said. "To me, Chan Ho Park's stuff plays up big (as a reliever). I listen to what he says. He's saying things about staying focused more. His arm's better at two innings than it is at five or six."

Once again, Park balks at that suggestion.

"No, I don't agree," he said. "I think I can start. A bad month or a bad week or a bad game happens to everybody. But they saw last year how I helped the Dodgers so much in being a reliever. Starting is much easier for me, but now, I've got to do whatever to help the team. Maybe, in a way, it'll get me back to where I want."

EF - Thanks. Good, for those of us at work who need something to distract us, but bad, once this no-name LHP mows us down.

Go Mayberry!

June s*cks. I'd rather play April all over again than this IL BS.

PS, you racist. White American indeed.

Sheesh, Chan Ho. Settle down. I wish this team wasn't so battered -- would love to move you for a different piece.

I'm expecting a deal for Penny within the next week or so.

By the way that article was from Scott Lauber in the Courier Times this morning....

Let's send Chan Ho back to South Korea so all his "fans" can watch him there. I hate crybabies.

Iceman- I know the rash of excuses from Mets fans is high, but they really have been decimated by injuries. It would be equivalent if the Phils lost Howard (Delgado), Rollins (Reyes), Myers (Perez), Blanton (Maine), Madson (Putz), Ruiz (Schneider) for 30 days, Werth (Church) for 15 days, Mayberry (Pagan), Bruntlett (Cora) once Rollins went down... it has not only killed their starting lineup but their depth too.

Every team has injuries, and can't use it as an excuse, but the Mets are a MASH unit right now.

Few thoughts:

- Ugh. No positive with one of your best offensive players on the DL.

- "Groin strain" in a 37-year old OF? Not good. Groin strain are notoriously tricky injuries to treat in other athletes that can be easily reaggravated without a prolonged period of rest to let the injury heal.

Phils can try to rush Ibanez back but then they risk a fairly sizable chance of a reinjury. My bet is that Ibanez is out to the ASB although he probably will try to make every effort to get back before then if he gets his first nod.

- This team has generally managed to play well when one of their bigger offensive threats has gone on the DL. See if the Phils can bounce back again.

- Not only is this a huge opportunity but for Mayberry to showcase that he belongs at the MLB level (even as a 4th/5th OF) but this creates a huge window of opportunity for Dobbs. I would imagine that he will get a fairly significant bump in PT with some starts in LF with Ibanez out.

- I hope that Cholly does resort to one of his favorite stupid moves of giving Bruntlett a fair amount of PT in LF at the expense of Mayberry/Dobbs/Stairs. There is no reason at all that Bruntlett should start in LF. None. Mayberry probably gives them at least as much offense and is fair superior defensively. Dobbs/Stairs vs. RHP also heads and tails above what Bruntlett brings vs. RHP.

phylan: Obviously I disagree with you. Pedro I think is rested and would give a solid back end of the rotation starter. He isn't a top line guy anymore, but he would fill a good role and can still miss bats

for the record, CBP IS Citizen's Bailout Park....calling Citi "taxpayer" while cashing your own bailout check always gives me a chuckle though....facts be damned, it's catchy...

per the first comment, ill take that bet 5000x, unless D Wright gets traded to the phillies there is no way he will have more homers than Ibanez, but I have a better crazy prediction bet, the Giants, will sign another bat, and win the NL west!!!

Sometimes I don't understand ballplayers. Most aren't going to be mistaken for rocket scientists but why does Park keep insisting on going into a role where he has failed for several years and was given a chance/failed again this year?

This has happened several this season yet he keeps insisting on wanting to go back into the season even if his team needs him in the bullpen in his current role.

Cholly just needs to talk to Park behind closed doors and yell at him "You Blew it, You had it and you blew it" with a heavy Southern twange.

Barack: Citizens Bank, or RBS Citizens N.A., did not receive a U.S. government bailout. It was bailed out by the Scottish government. So there!

Can Paul Bako play left? Wheels says he can teach him the no-doubles defense in an afternoon as well as how to rip that middle-in pitch like nobody's business. It might take a few days for the drop the head on it, however.

Tonight is going to be very interesting. This team was completely listless last night and showed little/no intensity. It happens. Cholly even admitted as such.

Still you would think this team would come out tonight with a spark early for several reasons - Ibanez being put on the DL, avoiding getting swept at home, missing Halladay and facing a rookie pitcher who by all reports has marginal stuff, etc.

It will be disappointing to see this team come out tonight and again play largely listless ball again.

Can you imagine how much of a pain in the a** Park would be if he was any good?

Good one, Andy. According to Chris Wheeler, 80 percent of all pitches are "middle-in."

MG: So you hope Charlie does play Bruntlett in left or that he doesn't?

donc: Yeah, he'd be J-Roll.

Why would Paul Bako start in left when he's an above thirty sub-replacement level catcher with no offensive production at all, and we have a decent-to-good prospect to stick in right while Werth takes over in left?

According to Chris Wheeler Bako is a good guy in the clubhouse. Before he got hurt he was really, really good.He deserves a chance.

Teams generally need some meaningful contributions from their role players and their farm system over the course of the season to make the playoffs.

So far, Bastardo has provided mixed results and the Phils really haven't gotten any contributions from anyone they have called up otherwise.

As for the role players, this bench has been a general weakness all season with the exception of Stairs' ability to PH.

Gillick's reputation here was mixed on bigger moves that included plenty of major flops (Garcia trade, Eaton signing, etc) but he generally found a way to tinker with the roster during the season to gradually improve it or find stop-gap solutions.

He did this well during 2007 and 2008 and the Phils made the playoffs each time. Amaro keeps yammering his mouth about looking for help and making moves but it is not kind of put-up/shut-up time. Not expecting any kind of dramatic impact player by any means but this roster is clearly short with Myers out and Eyre/Lidge/Ibanez on the DL.

So far, Amaro's minor tinkering since the end of spring training generally have been mixed or ineffective at best including keeping Cairo on the roster, trading for Taschner, signing/calling up Bako, etc.

Here's a nice little nugget from David Murphy:
"Amaro said the groin, which is a different issue than the sore achilles he battled recently, has bothere Ibanez since April, but that it had reached a point where the team feared that he would do serious damage to it if he cintinued to play."

This has been an issue since April, apparently.

Rube has to basically throw everything short of Dominic Brown at the Indians to try and get Cliff Lee. Even then they probably won't deal him because he's cost controlled next year.

I don't want to see the Gnome doing any fill in play for Ibanez. I'm suprised that Brunlett is even still on the roster.

Truth - No but it is almost guaranteed that Bruntlett (he of the .235 OPS vs. RHP, overall .540 OPS) and subpar defense due to his inability to track fly balls will get at least a few starts in LF with Ibanez out over the next few weeks because of his damn "versatility."

I find it hard to believe that Mayberry would be worse than Bruntlett facing LHP and he is clearly a superior defender.

As for Bruntlett vs. RHP, all you need to know is .235. Sadly, I do think Bruntlett is going to get a start in LF over the next 2 weeks against a right-handed starter. In fact, I bet that is a really good possibility.

MG: I was just poking because your grammatical mistake made the rest of the paragraph hard to decipher. I knew what you meant.

I have no problem with Bruntlett being a late inning replacement guy in left. It's not that hard a position to play and in 2 innings your chances of a bunch of plays drops some. Starting games out there gets to be a trickier proposition.

Yo, new thread

I never even heard speculation to David Wright, Carlos Beltran or Johan Santana. Typically, pitchers go much less under the radar. If I were wrong, Brad Lidge's 'roids would have warn off in the off-season. Wright's power numbers are very down. One of the few things Jerry Manuel has done right - the 80 pitch curve drill has really improved the opposite hitting skills of Wright and Beltran. It's taken away from Wright's power and added to his strike outs, but it's like he's an Ichiro type player at Citi Field now.

Now Raul Ibanez. Well? Romero's guilty. We all know that. Sheffield was too. Whether there's evidence or not, there's a difference between gossip/rumors and speculation. Once the word goes around on a specific guy - people always think it's possible. It's going to be a topic that'll surface through Raul's entire contract.

Is it a coincidence though? When people start speculating, it psychologically effects him. His batting average starts dropping. If he were using PEDs, doesn't that help keep you healthy? Now a couple weeks after speculation, he suddenly gets hurt. I guess it's possible, but many people are assumptive. There may have been a few of you who denied A-Rod, Manny or Sosa (ok, not him) used either.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel